Hi all im building a type 4 for my baja there are two things i would like to do one is 76mm c/w crank stroker rods and a set of 103mm pistons and barrels that will make it a 2553cc or i was going to do the 103mms on standard stroke c/w what im trying to get at is that no body that i have met has build one this big and what i would like to know is there anything i should look out for and some problems i may enconter etc pic's would also be good
thnks tim
11CAB ·
Wayne Penrose builds big type4 motors....try him
11CAB ·
Felco wrote:Hope you dont have kids OR A home loan OR A wife OR rent OR bla bla bla bla.
Man that sucker will cost HEAPS wont it ? Nice specs Timbo!
Nah Tim doesnt have any of those.......or a life either.... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
toplessbug ·
all the info is posted on aircooled .net very informative if you wanna save some bucks try /www.type4parts.com/cat_type_2.cfm
i was going down a similar path 78x103 but fell into the subi trap
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
it may cost a bit but dam its going to be fun
Bizarre ·
get in contact with Richard at V Force
The 76 x 103 is the expensive way.
His prefered beast is the 66x103 = 2.3??L beast
A free revving wonder that is not too dear to build.
toplessbug wrote:all the info is posted on aircooled .net very informative if you wanna save some bucks try /www.type4parts.com/cat_type_2.cfm
i was going down a similar path 78x103 but fell into the subi trap
i've heard some bad stuff about type4parts.com on the net. I'd try type4store.com instead.
Wag67 ·
also try conti engines on Bribie Island and he builds them and is now building vw motors for ultralights
From aircooled.net referring to their 103/105mm p&c kits:
"These work well IF you use a copper head gasket, and aren't crazy with compression and power. Comes with wrist pins. BTW, that's a quarter in the picture! :-D
103s (consider them a 105 thick wall) are the standard for performance and reliability. That's 2.7L of power with an 80mm crank! These use J & E FORGED pistons. 5th studding is recommended, but milder engines can get by (with the copper head gasket) without it."
Oh, and these kits would be over AU$1000 landed in Oz!
Jeza ·
From what I've read the 103's are liked by some and dislike by others. Apparently the big bore makes it more prone to warping.
The type4store.com will sell you a set of Nickies in this size but they are very expensive, although they'd probably last forever!
If you want to go really big perhaps use a bigger stroke on 96mm pistons/ cylinders.
Either way you go with a type 4 you will have to sell a leg all a arm.VForce best to talk to for a 2L.For your money to hp i would be maybe talk to some of the buggy blokes on this forum who are using Ej22 subie motors.JVLRacing
Craig Torrens ·
Bizarre wrote:get in contact with Richard at V Force
The 76 x 103 is the expensive way.
His prefered beast is the 66x103 = 2.3??L beast
A free revving wonder that is not too dear to build.
That can't be right:o....SHORT STROKE and BIG BORE is their prefered beast??????..........sounds familiar:kiss has someone finally learnt something ???amazing how the tide turns:thumb
And JVL...........shove ya subie up your arse :repuke... some people still want to be VW powered.
GO the Type4 :thumb
Have a chat with Stan Pobjoy or Wayne Penrose.nn[ Edited on 13-7-2005 by Craig Torrens ]
Bizarre ·
Craig Torrens wrote:That can't be right:o....SHORT STROKE and BIG BORE is they're prefered beast??????.........sounds familiar:kiss amazing how the tide turns:thumb
Craig
rather than talk in riddles "please explain" what you mean.
I have seen several of Richards 2.3L's and this is what they are.
yes - he has/is building some 2.7 strokers but the cost of the crank and availability is $$$.
yes - he tells me he prefers the 66 over the 71.
Craig Torrens ·
:jesus.............................Short stroke and Big Bore.
Good to see someone else other than Stan Pobjoy realising the short stroke/ big bore option is the way to achieve a free revving engine.nn[ Edited on 10-8-2005 by Craig Torrens ]
78mm T4 crank for 350.00 USnn[ Edited on 13-7-2005 by AdrianH ]
NigeType3 ·
Jake Raby is doing complete engine kits now.
Everything there ready for you to boltup and at different garanteed HP levels.
Not cheep but then this stuff aint.
Jeza ·
Perhaps the free reving isn't so beneficial in a baja?
I don't know how beneficial it would be in a daily driver either, I like to be able to put my foot down and pull away from low revs.
Definately can see its advantages for what you do with it though Craig.
Cheers
Jeremy
Craig Torrens ·
with 2.3lt I'm sure you can still put your foot down and pull away😵
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
...........shove ya subie up your arse :repuke... some people still want to be VW powered.
GO the Type4 :thumb
Im really starting to like this guy very well worded and one of the main reasons im building this is to stick it to the subies
The guy i was going to get the stuff of is www.bergmannracing.com is well know and i have herd great things about his engine parts i just don't know what to go with standard stroke or stroker, standard stroke would be easyer to build, i don't wan't win dyno days i just want somthing that will pull a tree out of the ground at idle and really move when you plant it so i have to find out what will do this. and is it really that expensive cause i look at the us prices and there cheap and getting them here can't be that bad nn[ Edited on 13-7-2005 by MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ]
Bizarre ·
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? wrote:The guy i was going to get the stuff of is www.bergmannracing.com is well know and i have herd great things about his engine parts
hmmmmm not on STF or the other places i visit.
I dont think he is as bad as GEX and a few others but i certainly wouldnt be sending $$$ overseas to him.
I wouldnt mind hearing the good things you have heard. I have seen one of his full circle T4 cranks and it was quite good, but as for his coloured motors i can give first hand opinion just the flack from thr other sites
toplessbug ·
dont take my post the wrong way ,i would love to be t4 powered BUT my bus will be a tow vehicle for the boat and will also have to contend with the camping gear as well ,so after talking to jake raby he said a powerstroke would do admirably it has 92 hp and140ft/lb of torque the suby has132hp and160ft/lb so thats that.i know its not t4 but to get a reliable one to tow my boat bris to daintree 2times a year and not get hot thru summer, which is the only time to fish up there, and maintain a good speed is close to impossible without nickies and they are around 6k landed here ,then i need a crank and heads and inj and a case cause the million milers are ratshit and so it goes .honest i would dearly love to be t4 powered but its not practicle richard also suggested the 66x103 to me but i need stump pulling torque and i cant see where it will come from with such an oversquare motor even with a big rod ratio
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
my brian is now smoking i have heard good things about his engine parts but not his engine builds so i don't know anymore
jvl054 ·
Craig Torrens wrote:
Bizarre wrote:get in contact with Richard at V Force
The 76 x 103 is the expensive way.
His prefered beast is the 66x103 = 2.3??L beast
A free revving wonder that is not too dear to build.
That can't be right:o....SHORT STROKE and BIG BORE is their prefered beast??????..........sounds familiar:kiss has someone finally learnt something ???amazing how the tide turns:thumb
And JVL...........shove ya subie up your arse :repuke... some people still want to be VW powered.
GO the Type4 :thumb
Have a chat with Stan Pobjoy or Wayne Penrose.nn[ Edited on 13-7-2005 by Craig Torrens ]
Craig read what i wrote!!! not whats up your arse....Mud talk to VForce he will help you ,If you want to kick some arse get Alex Dieter all Richard to take you for a spin in a car with a type 4.This will make up your mind deffently.JVLRacing
Dasdubber ·
Why must a thread asking specific questions about the build of a particular engine combo (whether it is YOUR preferred type/combo or not) degenerate into the old 1916 vs stroker vs suby arguement that we've all heard before.
I welcome and encourage open discussion that is on topic, but it would be nice to get back onto answering mudbashing's question/s.
Having had a type IV built recently (a mild 2L at that) I can concur that the cost is higher than a comparable type I build - but this is something you already know. There is a lot of valuable info on www.shoptalkforums.com in the type4rum and aircooledtechnology forum re. large piston size and sealing issues (head particularly and/or case). I wish I could give you first hand info re. intricacies of a big type IV build but I don't have that experience. I remember reading about a 3L type IV thread on aircooledtechnology forum that Jake Raby built - that may have some decent info.
Cheers
Alan 👍
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
i have seen that 3l type4 video cilp and that thing goes
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
So does anyone know where to get these copper heads gaskets for standard size and 103s
search out john alder from volksengineering i know for a fact that volksengineering WAS building awsome t4 units that have graced a lucky few in bris i have only HEARD good things about this guy and his passion for perf bill flocke just imported a 2.4 from the states and has utalised johns exhaust system in his set up i also have after much reasearch gone the subie route hey if money is no option go the toureg mtr!!👍
VWCOOL ·
jvl054 wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:
Bizarre wrote:get in contact with Richard at V Force
The 76 x 103 is the expensive way.
His prefered beast is the 66x103 = 2.3??L beast
A free revving wonder that is not too dear to build.
That can't be right:o....SHORT STROKE and BIG BORE is their prefered beast??????..........sounds familiar:kiss has someone finally learnt something ???amazing how the tide turns:thumb
And JVL...........shove ya subie up your arse :repuke... some people still want to be VW powered.
GO the Type4 :thumb
Have a chat with Stan Pobjoy or Wayne Penrose.nn[ Edited on 13-7-2005 by Craig Torrens ]
Craig read what i wrote!!! not whats up your arse....Mud talk to VForce he will help you ,If you want to kick some arse get Alex Dieter all Richard to take you for a spin in a car with a type 4.This will make up your mind deffently.JVLRacing
Ahh, I think Craig's tongue was firmly planted in his cheek... For more than 10 years, since Craig started setting records in Hillclimbs with a standard-stroke Pobjoy crank, people have wanked on about "stroker" this and "stroker" that... and now we have a thread that is praising the virtues of a big-capacity engine that has shorter stroke than a 1600 Type 1... 😉
dangerous ·
My advice would be to use the 2lt stroke and the 103s.
If you still have any budget left after making everything
nice and new, including respectable compression,
spend it on cylinder head port,seat and chamber work.
In the end, capacity always wins the grunt stakes
for N/A engines, Its just that the bigger bores allow
more room for breathing ability.
Don't worry too much about what stroke it has or
what it's rod ratio is. Just try for a combo that gives
good reliable capacity with ease of parts availability
incase you ever have to replace parts.
The 66mm crank and rods are cheap and plentiful,
but I wouldnt put that in there unless you can't
afford the 2lt crank and rods.
Go for the stock 2lt stroke, counterweighted if you
think you need to.
VWCOOL ·
dangerous wrote:My advice would be to use the 2lt stroke and the 103s.
If you still have any budget left after making everything
nice and new, including respectable compression,
spend it on cylinder head port,seat and chamber work.
In the end, capacity always wins the grunt stakes
for N/A engines, Its just that the bigger bores allow
more room for breathing ability.
Don't worry too much about what stroke it has or
what it's rod ratio is. Just try for a combo that gives
good reliable capacity with ease of parts availability
incase you ever have to replace parts.
The 66mm crank and rods are cheap and plentiful,
but I wouldnt put that in there unless you can't
afford the 2lt crank and rods.
Go for the stock 2lt stroke, counterweighted if you
think you need to.
"Respectable compression"... "reliable capacity"..."room for breathing ability" I know you are trying to help, but that means JACK SCHIIT
jvl054 ·
VWCOOL wrote:
dangerous wrote:My advice would be to use the 2lt stroke and the 103s.
If you still have any budget left after making everything
nice and new, including respectable compression,
spend it on cylinder head port,seat and chamber work.
In the end, capacity always wins the grunt stakes
for N/A engines, Its just that the bigger bores allow
more room for breathing ability.
Don't worry too much about what stroke it has or
what it's rod ratio is. Just try for a combo that gives
good reliable capacity with ease of parts availability
incase you ever have to replace parts.
The 66mm crank and rods are cheap and plentiful,
but I wouldnt put that in there unless you can't
afford the 2lt crank and rods.
Go for the stock 2lt stroke, counterweighted if you
think you need to.
"Respectable compression"... "reliable capacity"..."room for breathing ability" I know you are trying to help, but that means JACK SCHIIT
So why does mean JACK SCHIIT VWcool? Dangerous has done alot of drag racing! it sounds like a very conservative aproach without going over the top with (mods)JVLRacing
71superbug ·
i agree with JVL on this one.
why does it mean jack shit?
im sure he could have written it out in very technical terms if he wanted to but im sure we all understand what he means with the way he said it. its actually quite a smart approach to things if you dont want to have a grenade on hand when u finshed building an engine. i mean..im no expert but i think that was out of line VWCOOL.
put your money into starting with a good strong base..that may not be the bees knees..and then after a while when u get "bored" of the power and have some more money u can poor some mroe money into it without lots of breakages. after all...he is only building a dated aircooled motor :p hehe (ok that last comment was just a dig at ya).
Anthonynn[ Edited on 8-8-2005 by 71superbug ]
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
Any advice is always good but saying somone's words dont mean shit thats not going to help me just let me figure out what it is and isn't and keep the type 4 related words coming ill pick out what i want
VWCOOL ·
Yes, maybe it was harsh... and nothing personal, :kiss but the airy-fairy words he used (that I highlighted) made him sound like a 11yo Commodore fan.
I may be wrong, but I think MudBasher is beyond the Engines 101: 'Start with a good base...use a conservative approach' step... I think he may be after hard-and-fast info and experience from people that have built, raced and destroyed Type 4s. Do they crack cases? Are oil pumps expensive? Do flywheels come loose? Is the stroke/rod length combo all wrong? Is counterweighting necessary?
Maybe some words that actually have some technical relevance to MudBasher and the rest of us who are keen for info would have been better. Because the ones used here are fairy-tale stuff
nn[ Edited on 8-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
Adam_C ·
C'mon guys.... .take it easy..... lets not have a thread similar to the pobjoy 1916 crap.
Mudbasher, i suggest you get on the phone one afternoon and hav a chat with people like richard holzl simply because they have been around the block many times with this kind of thing. Dont take what is said on this forum as gospel.... there are so many opinions, go speak to someone with tried and tested examples of thier work and go from there.
not saying the guys here dont know what theyre talking about, but for most here it is a hobby, for those like richard, it is a living.
VWCOOL ·
Adam_C wrote:C'mon guys.... .take it easy..... lets not have a thread similar to the pobjoy 1916 crap.
lol...plenty of poor little darling Dubbers had their feelings hurt by that thread, huh?! The truth hurts sometimes...
Maybe give Pobjoy a call when you have done some more homework and are serious about putting together a tough Type 4. He knows more than all of us put together and as far as I know is the only one in Australia who is properly counterweighting T4 cranks for big engines :thumbnn[ Edited on 8-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
pete wood ·
Well I think you're all off ya faces. If you were really serious you have him put an 18litre caterpillar turbo diesel in it. Then he'd had all the capacity in the world, planet pulling torque and a motor that'd last for 2million km.
Now stick up ya dukes! :vader
Mud, call some people who know what they're talking about. I'm sure you can figure out who that is anyway. Lookin forward to what you come up with. I'm sure it'll be good. 👍
dangerous ·
Perhaps this will be clearer.
My opinion:
103mm bore
Stock 71mm crank, I like to counterweight.
7.5 compression.
Bigger bores make room for bigger valves.
By the time you put in a new cam and lifters, new heads with larger valves and porting,
and do all the work that is required to do the job properly, you wont have much change out of $10000.
Talk to the people who take your money if you need any more of an explanation than that.
jvl054 ·
dangerous wrote:Perhaps this will be clearer.
My opinion:
103mm bore
Stock 71mm crank, I like to counterweight.
7.5 compression.
Bigger bores make room for bigger valves.
By the time you put in a new cam and lifters, new heads with larger valves and porting,
and do all the work that is required to do the job properly, you wont have much change out of $10000.
Talk to the people who take your money if you need any more of an explanation than that.
A good reliable combo...no doubt Dave...Do you think if you use a 78crank with 105 bore a reliabilty factor comes into play all not?JVLRacing
dubbill ·
when does it become " not a vw"
yeah shes got scat crank pauter rods mahle pistons n barrels engle cam raby heads but shes still a vw cos its all in a vw box(case)
cmon guys n girls:bounce my kids wont eat w'bix so do i put them in a cornflake box n then their cornflakes:duh?????
WAY TOO much:party goin on ere
vw ag owns the subie boxer so in reality the subie is more vw than any/all "mean t4's"
is that a rash on ya neck??? its all rednn[ Edited on 9-8-2005 by dubbill ]
helbus ·
I could just post "Why not chuck a Suby motor in", but that will not help.
I was very close to going either way with building a hot Type 4 motor or a Suby EJ22. I only went the EJ as I had just finished putting a fuel injected motor in an old Holden and had confidence to go that way. The Suby motor in some ways was a more conservative way for me to go as it is 100% stock Subaru.
I respect the hot Type 4 setup and from what I read here there is some good ideas.
I like the sound of 103mm bores with stock counterweighted crank.
The heads, I would get something really free breathing with bigger valves.
Cam I would get something again that copes with getting more out of higher rpm.
I would upgrade the valve gear, again to help with rpm.
Fuel injection would be the way to get good power, but aftermarket not VW.
That's my thoughts, feel free to ignore me, but don't reply just to diss me, I wouldn't be able to handle it. 🙂
jvl054 ·
Helbus wrote:I could just post "Why not chuck a Suby motor in", but that will not help.
I was very close to going either way with building a hot Type 4 motor or a Suby EJ22. I only went the EJ as I had just finished putting a fuel injected motor in an old Holden and had confidence to go that way. The Suby motor in some ways was a more conservative way for me to go as it is 100% stock Subaru.
I respect the hot Type 4 setup and from what I read here there is some good ideas.
I like the sound of 103mm bores with stock counterweighted crank.
The heads, I would get something really free breathing with bigger valves.
Cam I would get something again that copes with getting more out of higher rpm.
I would upgrade the valve gear, again to help with rpm.
Fuel injection would be the way to get good power, but aftermarket not VW.
That's my thoughts, feel free to ignore me, but don't reply just to diss me, I wouldn't be able to handle it. 🙂
Well said Pete:thumbJVLRacing
dubbill ·
what bout the loss of piston speed needed to overcum the t4 exhaust port design "stroker n shell get all warm n fuzzy" the t4 pwr is in the heads if you have as much money as raby you could rnd a hot t4 but he has proven the 2332 is a bullet proof very capable mtr just buy a raby kit he has spent thousands tens of thousands n many an hour so utalise some of his knowlege hell while were talking bucks just fly ova n see it for your self......then just chuck a subie in it= free holiday to the states
jvl054 ·
dubbill wrote:what bout the loss of piston speed needed to overcum the t4 exhaust port design "stroker n shell get all warm n fuzzy" the t4 pwr is in the heads if you have as much money as raby you could rnd a hot t4 but he has proven the 2332 is a bullet proof very capable mtr just buy a raby kit he has spent thousands tens of thousands n many an hour so utalise some of his knowlege hell while were talking bucks just fly ova n see it for your self......then just chuck a subie in it= free holiday to the states
That true as well! its the old saying....$$$$for hps and more in the pocket!!!!!!JVLRacing:thumb
jvl054 ·
dubbill wrote:what bout the loss of piston speed needed to overcum the t4 exhaust port design "stroker n shell get all warm n fuzzy" the t4 pwr is in the heads if you have as much money as raby you could rnd a hot t4 but he has proven the 2332 is a bullet proof very capable mtr just buy a raby kit he has spent thousands tens of thousands n many an hour so utalise some of his knowlege hell while were talking bucks just fly ova n see it for your self......then just chuck a subie in it= free holiday to the states
dubbill ·
$$$$$4hps more in the pocket n more in the roctet!!!
Twokombies ·
I like the sound of VW motors in VWs, even if it is only a vw case! I also like the proven reliability of stock motors.
So I am constantly torn between the 2 options. At the moment I am 60% Subie minded.
Would it be possibe for you guys that are stating your preferred VW build to have some approx dollar value to your designs?
I know that is a hard one to answer but I have absolutely no idea of the cost.
I do know that a 2ltr reco is in the $4,000 range. (not DIY)
Maybe that could be used as a base?
What sort of bucks are we looking at for the subie conversion? Again I haven't got much idea, although I have heard of some place in QLD that does it for $4000, drive in drive out.
I think that is for the smallest subie lump.
The EJ 22 would be more than that of course.
I just did a search and found this thread http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=41510
EJ22 kit, $6500nnnn[ Edited on 9-8-2005 by Twokombies ]
dubbill ·
yeah mate try n build a Mean t4 for less than 8000......then add labour
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
VWCOOL wrote:Yes, maybe it was harsh... and nothing personal, :kiss but the airy-fairy words he used (that I highlighted) made him sound like a 11yo Commodore fan.
I may be wrong, but I think MudBasher is beyond the Engines 101: 'Start with a good base...use a conservative approach' step... I think he may be after hard-and-fast info and experience from people that have built, raced and destroyed Type 4s. Do they crack cases? Are oil pumps expensive? Do flywheels come loose? Is the stroke/rod length combo all wrong? Is counterweighting necessary?
Maybe some words that actually have some technical relevance to MudBasher and the rest of us who are keen for info would have been better. Because the ones used here are fairy-tale stuff
nn[ Edited on 8-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
yeah im along way pass engines 101 and i have built many engines so just jump to the point ill know what your on about.
And you subie guys please don't come up with the usuall subie dribble if i wanted to know how good they are i would just go talk to brad so please.
And my heads have been sorted 5mm bigger s/s valuves and ported and im going efi the same as ratty 63's delco system
dubbill ·
who did your head work???
what size valves??
dport or oval
pete wood ·
to Jvl and dubbill, PULL YA HEADS IN!!!
I may agree with you but you're in the wrong part of the forum. Go back to non-vw engines. 😬
If we all really wanted rocket ships we'd play with skylines (yawn) or porsches, and not be wasting our time with VWs. But we are, so if mudbasher wants a type 4, let him have one. It's his hobby and his wallet. :o
dubbill ·
just waiting for the thread ""who can help me fit a "mean t4" into my sti""
might be why i keep embarassing all the subie boy racer wannabee's in my rx3(320km/h@13000revs)
they need the t4:Pnn[ Edited on 9-8-2005 by dubbill ]
jvl054 ·
pete wood wrote:to Jvl and dubbill, PULL YA HEADS IN!!!
I may agree with you but you're in the wrong part of the forum. Go back to non-vw engines. 😬
If we all really wanted rocket ships we'd play with skylines (yawn) or porsches, and not be wasting our time with VWs. But we are, so if mudbasher wants a type 4, let him have one. It's his hobby and his wallet. :o
Pete,why would i pull my head in! not once have imention for him to buy a subie.Ive built a T4 and i know what it all about.And as far as rocket ships go,my VW subie is one.I have already suggested for mudbasher who to talk to and to get the right advise of.JVLRacing
pete wood ·
Sorry if I miss understood, but i'm sure you can see why I might have. 😉
jvl054 ·
pete wood wrote:Sorry if I miss understood, but i'm sure you can see why I might have. 😉
:thumbJVLRacing
wibble ·
Group hug guy's! I'm sticking to type4's until everyone refrains from telling me to "convert to subi man" along with simplicity and fixability in the bush. Am watching this post with interest..
Go hard Mud Man I say!
Brad ·
mmm interesting post .. I too went down the Type 4 path before going up the Subie Tree. The thing I find funny is that Type 4 supporters tell you how they can fix it on the side of the road and how simple it is. Correct me if I m wrong but I am guessing you are going to run after market FI on this baby. If this is that case then you have bugger all VW left and Bugger all you can fix on the side of the track. SO what you are really building is an air cooled subie engine .. yeah ?? That being said if you build it right then there should be no need to fix anything on the side of the track.. Anyway back to the point ...
I would talk to Gary at Conti Engines or John Alder at Volks Engineering. Both have built a number of big Type 4 engines. I know from experience that John Alder has built some real weapons that have done a lot of beach and offroad work. As stated before he has been building them for many years and should be able to tell you all about the traps for young players.
If it was me I would go stock 2L stroke and bigger pots. Keep it neat with some good head work and good aftermarket FI .. walla a reliable air cooled subie motor :kiss
The last kombi I went in with a 2.3L type 4 built by John Alder went like stink and had cost the guy just over $12 000 . This info was from the owner and I can only go off what I am told. It definately went harder / faster than my EJ 22 powered kombi. Then again I have a $500 engine in my DC :>
Jeza ·
Well said Brad.
I'd love an aircooled Subi motor....
A friend of mine said the other day that he is not opposed to highly modifying his VW's, but he would like to keep them to the "original design brief", that is they were aircooled then and they are aircooled now... although I'm not opposed to a well engineered Subi power bug.
I am also going T4 at the moment, and am hoping not to have to be able to fix it at the side of the road. The point of the T4 for me is everything is beefier than the T1 so hopefully a little more durable.
Keep us updated with what you end up building Muds
Cheers
Jeremynn[ Edited on 9-8-2005 by Jeza ]
mnsKmobi ·
Buggy Brad wrote:The last kombi I went in with a 2.3L type 4 built by John Alder went like stink and had cost the guy just over $12 000 .
$12,000! For that you could get a Jake Raby engine delivered by chopper to your house (and possibly Jake to install it!). :P Seriously though Jake has a 120HP TIV kit for under US$3000 that would be worth considering if you wanted to build your own engine (and had a good core).
71superbug ·
SHOVE A ROTA UP YA!!!
sorry...all this subie vs VW argument got me excited 🙂
Anthony🥷
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
dubbill wrote:who did your head work???
what size valves??
dport or oval
Jax heads at lismore will be doing them when i get off my ring and send them down he has done all my heads before and there all still on motors and running great there 5mm bigger s/s mainly spelling could be up the shit there and i think d port only is on type 1s i may be wrong but im yet to see them so ill try and post pic's when i get them back
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
Buggy Brad wrote:mmm interesting post .. I too went down the Type 4 path before going up the Subie Tree. The thing I find funny is that Type 4 supporters tell you how they can fix it on the side of the road and how simple it is. Correct me if I m wrong but I am guessing you are going to run after market FI on this baby. If this is that case then you have bugger all VW left and Bugger all you can fix on the side of the track. SO what you are really building is an air cooled subie engine .. yeah ?? That being said if you build it right then there should be no need to fix anything on the side of the track..
Yeah they are easy to fix if they break but the idea is to not make them break we do drive offroaders and if you drive like me you will break any engine you stick in the back sooner or later, my last engine i called it a shit box cause it came out of the vw pille of shit in my shed all i did was slap it together with new bearings, rings and a big cam and it went hard for what it wasn't the new one will have aftermarket efi so really its a updated vw engine i don't think its any less of a vw engine its just had a bit of modern stuff put in. my idea is to fix all the weak points and have strong engine as im going across the simpson and up the top in this car with this engine
I have ordered the engine parts and am going with stock stroke with 103s i think it should be great fun building this engine and driving it also
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
Go hard Mud Man I say! [/quote]
Oh there is going to be plenty of going hard i have not driven a offroader for 6 months its just silly me with no offroader is like a drugo with no drugs or a pub with no beer it just dont work
Brad ·
I guess it goes back to when a VW stops being a VW ..
what EFI are you going to run ?
amazer ·
It stops being a vw engine when it has subaru or mazda or sometning else stamped into it. VW had flat engines with EFI long long long before subaru did.
:thumb MUD for not taking the easy way out. You could also put a small turbo on it for more stump pulling but I guess the extra hassles arent worth it. The only problems I have ever had with the type 4's are the heads. @#&%! things. Some of those type 1 style heads would be the go but would mean a hefty mortgage for most ppl.
👎 3 ppl for letting their biased opinions ruin a thread. I'll send u2u's so you know who you are.
:beer to the others who can offer opinions either way without being arseholes.
helbus ·
:beer tastes nice
You are going to have a ball when it is all up and running. 🙂
Craig Torrens ·
Well I recieved a u2u from "Amazer" saying I ruined this thread by my biased 1916cc opinion............for the record, I'm currently building a T4 engine for my J&S buggy as well as a T4 engine to potentially race in the over 2000cc class in hillclimb.
Any reference that I had made to the humble 1916cc (now edited in a previous post) was with respect to the short stroke/ big bore theory. At NO stage had I suggested the option of a 1916cc for Mudbasher, nor did I try and start a Stroker vs subi vs 1916 debate.
I just found it interesting that a VW enthusiast that usually builds stroker (over 2300cc) type 1 engines would choose a 66mm stroke crank over a 71mm stroke crank when building a T4 engine.............similiar to the principals of a 1916 engine.
Please do not read into this, as some have, as a "I LOVE 1916 only" opinion.......................its more that I love the big bore/short stroke combinations.
My opinion for this car................71x103,standard valve 1800 heads,9.5:1 compression,a pair of 44IDF's, a mild cam.....................................and a nice muddy track to play on !
Sorry for any misunderstandings :thumb
And Amazer..............don't shoot from the hip.nn[ Edited on 10-8-2005 by Craig Torrens ]
Andy42 ·
Who gives a rats arse what motor a offroader will be running. Just build what ya like. Then when they are going we all can go out and flog the arse of them and have some fun.
What computer you going to run????
VWCOOL ·
Andy42 wrote:Who gives a rats arse what motor a offroader will be running. Just build what ya like. Then when they are going we all can go out and flog the arse of them and have some fun.
What computer you going to run????
Some of us don't want to waste too much hard-earned money finding out that we don't like what we have built
71superbug ·
who gives a shit if its a 1916, a 2l t4 or a freakin 28litre diesel beast.
why should there even be arguments about which is better...and how is mentioning a 1916cc motor ruining a thread...all of you..get a life...everyone can do what they want with their without having to put up with shitkickers of the aircooled community.
Anthony🥷
Stanley ·
Just had a look at this thread for the first time...I kinda gathered by the way it was gathering momentum that it was turning into an us and them arguement again.
mud man stick to your guns man, and build what you want. As once said in an infamous Python movie "we're all individuals" but seeing MB comments I think we know that.
Just as a matter of interest regarding ,when does a vw engine stop being a vw...had a chat with Jay Upton rider, builder and owner of that white top fuel Triumph (which looks or sounds nothing like a trumpy).
I said "Jay what makes it a Triumph ?"
To which he replied "the head gasket"
Yep thats right anything goes...as long as the head gasket is OEM.
MUD BASHING ANYONE ?? ·
Andy42 wrote:Who gives a rats arse what motor a offroader will be running. Just build what ya like. Then when they are going we all can go out and flog the arse of them and have some fun.
What computer you going to run????
HELL YEAH !!!!! and im running the delco system the same as ratty 63s