Clutch dramas at Stockton (HELP! won\'t start now)

Finally got the car up to stockton on friday of years of waiting. I have to say, SUBARU MOTORS ROCK!!!!.

110 on the freeway and averaging 80 degrees. Did about 10l per 100km, maybe a bit less. Is that good milage?

Then on the dunes...
I'm talking 45 degree opposite lock power slides round the rim of a bowl in 2nd at about 60km/h! And still plenty of guts left! AWESOME!!!

Had clutch dramas though. Firstly the clutch wouldn't disengage properly, so I tightened the cable. Got to the stage where the clutch was beginning to slip at low revs in 4th. Gets worse. Now it makes a nasty clanging sound when I turn it over with the starter. It also seems to be vibrating some. It goes ok and I managed to drive it home to Sydney alright. I haven't pulled it a part yet, any ideas what it might be.

I have some nasty feelings is may be expensive. Might be time for that shortened sump and suspension lift at the same time...:onn[ Edited on 17-7-2005 by pete wood ]nn[ Edited on 20-8-2005 by pete wood ]

I'm actually surprised the Signa (or sygna?) doesn't look much more corroded then when I was there 3 yrs ago.



IF your clutch started to not disengaged properly, and then started slipping, I would place my bet on the pressure plate dying or the bolts holding the pressure plate to the flywheel starting to come loose or something really strange like that.

Do you have something to stop sand getting into your flywheel area? Sand in the clutch plate could be another explanation. The sand would initially get in between and stop it disengaging properly, but would then quickly wear the clutch out and make it slip?

That's my guesses.

When I was at Stockton last I had my 1915 VW engine. I'd like to take the V6 there one day. The V6 on the beach is a lot of fun and will do 2nd gear powerslides all the way to redline (about 120kph). Great fun.

Initially I thought the clutch tube was floating round inside the tunnel, had this happen in a beetle before. But when we cut it open to have a look it was fine. There is no sand in the behousing either, as far as I can tell anyway. mmm, guess I'll have to pull it all apart then. 🙁

you must have taller gearing than me, I can only manage about 85 in 2nd. Still, it will fish tail in 3rd along the beach just fine. :Pnn[ Edited on 17-7-2005 by pete wood ]

Peter pis the cable off and fit a hydraulic set up , cables give you the shits .
I go with Wes for the rest . seagull

could be loose fly-wheel bolts, wanna hope not!

Oh, well, it got home ok, and I didn't thrash it too much, so whatever is wrong, hopefully I can fix easily. I'd be real surprised if it's the flywheel bolts. I more expect the ringgear or flywheel to have fractured in some way. Still can't figure why though, I really don't drive that hard, and I thought sand was spose to be easy on drivelines with all the slippage and everything.

Sand is not easy on drive lines , its very grippy really ,on the the dirt is much more forgiving.

Sand is hard on drive lines.

It wouldn't be a fracture of the ring gear of flywheel. If either of those started to fracture then they'd explode at high rpm shortly after.

Could be your clutch forks or throw out bearing. Slipping could suggest issues with cluch fingures of the plate.

I doubt it will be anything real expensive. If she still drives well in gear and issue is only with clutch area I would be looking at expense items.

Did you use a good clutch kit ?

sachs german 217mm 2litre kombi clutch. Brand new. It's never slipped before.

pete wood wrote:sachs german 217mm 2litre kombi clutch. Brand new. It's never slipped before.

But it s now..I'd be going for the throwout bearing....doesn't take much to stuff 'em up and get wedged in on funny angles:o:jesus:alien

pete wood wrote:sachs german 217mm 2litre kombi clutch. Brand new. It's never slipped before.

A 2lt clutch is 228mm. Do you mean the 1800 215mm?

yeah the 215mm one. But as I said, it's worked fine up til now.

The prblem happened like this. We got onto the beach and when I came off at the other end, I had problems disengaging the clutch properly. At this point I adjusted up the cable. This gave me enough to go for a hoon in the dunes, but after a while the clutch was quite smelly. Again, when we got off the beach, it wouldn't disengage properly again. So I tightened the cable again. This seemed to be ok, but again by the time we got off the beach the next time it was the same, not disengaging properly. Later that day we were due to drive home and I was keen to fix it. My mate had his work truck along with all his tools and oxy there so I thought we could have a good go. I thought the problem was the clutch tube coming loose inside the tunnel. I've had that problem with a bug before, so we cut a hatch next to the pedals and had a look inside, but it was all fine. By this stage is was also making a nasty mechanical clanging every time I started it. So I tightened up the cable again to the point where I could disengage the clutch, but it meant some slippage in 4th at lower speeds. So I drove it drove it home carefully and kept the revs up with light throttle so it wouldn't slip.

(Doesn't need heaps of throttle any way. It will accelerate up steepish hills in 4th at 100 with maybe a quarter throttle.) :thumbs

We got home fine. I haven't touche it since then.

pete wood wrote:By this stage is was also making a nasty mechanical clanging every time I started it. So I tightened up the cable again to the point where I could disengage the clutch, but it meant some slippage in 4th at lower speeds.

Sounds to me like the pressure plate has come loose.

People often overtorque the pressure plate bolts. They are only small so buy new ones everytime your fit a new clutch and torque as per the manual.

Alternatively your flywheel bolts are loose. eek. But more likely your pressure plate.

You are goning to have to pull the motor.

I know :cry

It's gonna be a bitch too :cry

unfortunately, I've got two sermons and a 4000 word essay coming up in the next month, so it'll have to wait til after that.

Don't think its the flywheel loose, I can see up into where it joins the crank and it looks all solid.nn[ Edited on 20-7-2005 by pete wood ]

Baja Wes wrote:IF your clutch started to not disengaged properly, and then started slipping, I would place my bet on the pressure plate dying or the bolts holding the pressure plate to the flywheel starting to come loose or something really strange like that.

Loose pressure plate bolts are still my guess, although as they loosened they would have done so unevenly which would have caused a vibration through the clutch pedal.

I've had the clutch outer tube break too and it was very different to what you are describing.

Do you reckon I could get to the pressure plate bolts by going in through the starter hole?

I figured I could turn the engine a few degrees and otrque each nut like that. Just a thought.

Nope.Have to pull the donk...unfortunately.Best having a looksy anyway in case the problem is elsewhere.😢

oh well, worth a try...😢

pete wood wrote:Do you reckon I could get to the pressure plate bolts by going in through the starter hole?

I don't know if you;d manage to get something through there to tighen them, but you may be able to see in there and see if anything looked loose. Or even feel in there with your fingers.

Starter motor came out last night. One of the mounting bolts was loose. As far as I can tell by looking through the hole in the belhousing, there's nothing wrong with the clutch bolts. So I guess the next suspect is the thrust bearing. And that means the motor is coming out. 🙁

Might be time to shorten the sump and drop the g/box a whole lot lower in between the chassis horns. Ah, the joys of modified vehicles...NOT! 😬

pete wood wrote:Ah, the joys of modified vehicles...NOT! 😬

Maybe it time to sell it and buy a Suzuki Sierra.

Or a Lada:puke

Sandy wrote:Or a Lada:puke

HeHe GO THE NIVA!!!!:o

Sandy wrote:Or a Lada:puke

hey leave the niva alone they were a great car i learnt to drive in one, cause if you can drive one of them you can drive anything. btw they have the best twin barrel webber copy on them ive seen. better than the older version of the progressive. the samara thats a different story they sucked the big one

That's great, but anyway, back to Pete's clutch...

i bruck the hooks off the thrust bearing carrier/fork thing. leading up to the break, the clutch action was funny, incl jumping and shuddering, banging and stuff. i was concerned but it was a cheap & easy fix (with an aircooed motor -joke- :P).i dont know if this could be your prob tho.

dunno, I reckon it's got to do with the pressure plate, but you might be right. Anyway, I decided I'm just gonna fix the clutch and chuck it back together until december. Then it gonna get a complete work over the chassis, more clearance, or I'll dump it into the weeds, not sure yet.

Pulled the motor all out today. Clutch full of sand. The thrust bearing was just like a chocolate milkshake only crunchy...and not chocolate milk, 🙁

Shoved in a 2nd handy thrust bearing and away we go. Oh well I'll know to block up any where sand can get in for next time. Damn my back hurts from lying on a concrete floor all day. Night night, I'm off to bed.:o

Baja Wes wrote:Do you have something to stop sand getting into your flywheel area? Sand in the clutch plate could be another explanation. The sand would initially get in between and stop it disengaging properly, but would then quickly wear the clutch out and make it slip?

So do I get a gold star? 🙂

Baja Wes wrote:

Baja Wes wrote:Do you have something to stop sand getting into your flywheel area? Sand in the clutch plate could be another explanation. The sand would initially get in between and stop it disengaging properly, but would then quickly wear the clutch out and make it slip?

So do I get a gold star? 🙂

Looks like you only get a blue star Wes....you forgot to mention the Thrust Bearing so some points have been deducted.:P

Seeing that Wes got a blue star for picking the trouble How do you stop the sand from getting into that area is there something you can buy to do that??

Marc

it's pretty hard to get sand in there if you have a beetle motor.

It's easier to get it in there is you have a conversion that has left some kind of gaping hole open for sand to get in. I had to make up a steel plate to cover from the bottom of my block to the bottom of the VW bellhousing.

I'm not sure why exactly Pete got so much sand in there.

mmm, I think I have the same gaping hole in the block as you had wes, only it was a subaru gaping hole not a mazda one. Wasn't just sand either. There was definitely dust in there from the 2 motorkhanas I went in as well.

Basically the sand went up through the block, through the hole in the adaptor plate and then around the edge of the flywheel, which picked it up and flung it round and it got into the clutch mechanisim. From there is was ground into a fine powder like I found it.

got some pics of it here,
http://www.geocities.com/peterwood738/buggyproject/buggyproject13.html

anyway, it'll get a cover on it now. Bit tired of learning the hard way...:onn[ Edited on 16-8-2005 by pete wood ]

Motor back and running...running once anyway.

Turned it over and it ran for a few minutes, horribly rich for the cat I spose. Turned it over again and there was a big bang, raw fuel?
Now she won't fire.

Any ideas? Just flooded?

no ideas on the subaru but your web site was a good read. thanks.nn[ Edited on 17-8-2005 by helterskelter400 ]

Ok, Now I have an issue. The motor is all back in, But i'm stuffed if I can get it to start. It has plenty of fuel and all the plugs are sparking, but it won't fire or run. The ECU is not showing any codes either. A mate and myself spend 2 hours trying to diagnose it this afternoon and it has us stumped.

Seems to be something to do with timing, but we can't figure out what.

Any ideas? Brad, Anyone?🙁

Ok, Now I have an issue. The motor is all back in, But i'm stuffed if I can get it to start. It has plenty of fuel and all the plugs are sparking, but it won't fire or run. The ECU is not showing any codes either. A mate and myself spend 2 hours trying to diagnose it this afternoon and it has us stumped.

Seems to be something to do with timing, but we can't figure out what.

Any ideas? Brad, Anyone?🙁

Pete , remove the power lead and leave it off for amount 60 seconds .
you put the earths back on ?

welcome to my DREAM !:alien

Nah dude, we've actually had mine run before. Prolly something stupid. last time it was the main ECU relay mucking up. But it was throwing masses of codes then. Not sure this time.:duh

Check all your sensore plug and stuff you had undone.

If it won't fire I and you think it is timing I reckon your ECU is getting a bad signal. Check all your earths as well.

If nothing then I would unplug an injector and see if it throws a fault code just to make sure the ECU is doing it's job.

I reckon it is a plug though if it is over fueled and was running before you pulled it one if them may not be done up correctly or a joing wire may have pulled out.