Is my T3 normal?

got a 90 T3. With a bunch of people in it and usual prams and junk it takes off like a slug when the air's running. (It's an auto). Is this normal. Had it serviced, etc., so nothing 'wrong' with it, just wondered if this 'normal'. It does pick up, so it's not foot down, then it dies, then picks up, it just picks up slow from a standing start with the air on and 4/5 people in it......

(paranoid...Penriff)

CCC welcome to the world of a T3 auto,as per the descripition the slow takeup is on par ...although my interpredation may differ from what is actually taking place,does the fuel pump become audiable[buzz] after some time running? do you notice better preformance when the engine is cold? how different is preformance with the air switched off?does it get full throttle ? by answering some of these questions I may be able to help diagnose your concerns...cheers steve

has it had an O2 sensor in the last few years? replaced mine recently ( '89 Syncro ) it made a huge difference, smoothed out an anoying off idle flat spot + general driving and improved fuel economy in a major way! BTW O2 sensors, bosch, can be had for fairly a resonable price these days.

rhddlxbd wrote:CCC welcome to the world of a T3 auto,as per the descripition the slow takeup is on par ...although my interpredation may differ from what is actually taking place,does the fuel pump become audiable[buzz] after some time running? do you notice better preformance when the engine is cold? how different is preformance with the air switched off?does it get full throttle ? by answering some of these questions I may be able to help diagnose your concerns...cheers steve

no buzzing...runs smooth as. Same performance, maybe very slightly noticeable when colder. Yeah, when Air is off, defo has more power to pick up from dead stop. Hunts a bit when started from cold with the air on at idle. Just had it serviced, and no nasties found....

It's not tragic, not like it's trying to die on me....but as I've not experienced another T3, got no reference point I guess.

O2 sensor....is that a specialist job?

the O2 sensor is in the exhaust just near the cat pretty easy to replace should only take 5 mins. Bursons hear in Melb has them for around $110. I think.

Another sensors that can cause bad running is the temp 2 sensor, that tells the engine management how warm the engine is, its also a relatively cheap part and easy to replace.

Also check the throtle switch.

Checkout http://www.vanagon.com/ for more links and info

i fitted a set of ratio rockers and what differance goes hard fron start and its auto was a slug before

i agree with syncros tips ..these are much overlooked ..simple to change......another tip is a possible injector service sometime in the future..be sure its a off the car service though......autos are sluggish with 'air on' always have been from new...can't expect 95hp to push 1470kgs too quick off the mark!!!!!have the timing checked also.....although they are pretty much set from the factory we have found many air cond fitters remove the disy when fitting the 10kg air con braket and don't fit the disy back to its original postion...hence they are a bit retarded[like me working on em].....hope this helps answer the q's cheers steve

thanks fellas, will investigate. the motor is great, so figured it's just the lack of hp. Not that I care that much around the 'burbs, it's so smooth, quiet...need to get out and check the badge....just when fuel hits the 140 ay.....oh well, screw it.

Hey Steve, what did ya do with Andy?....does he/you have split door frame rubber kits???? (off topic, but who cares).

greedy51 wrote:i fitted a set of ratio rockers and what differance goes hard fron start and its auto was a slug before

again in non-t3 expert lingo plz?

Mine used to be a slug now it tears the road to pieces. Smooth and reliable and heaps more power. An extra two cylinders usually has that effect. When I work out how to do it I will put some photos up.

Yeah, I'd like to know what "ratio rockers" are, too!

Years ago, I remember reading about Gene Berg rockers and re-chip for these motors. Articles in the mags said they increased performance and reduced fuel consumption, but never found someone who had actually done the conversion to get the real news. Anyone know?

Murray from Flat four has the performance chip in his dcab ute ,steve (greedy51) also from flat four has the ratio rockers which help in your valve timing(guessing) so these are the guys to talk to

Bashed out the inners of the catalytic converter (it was starting to rattle) and use shell optimax.Goes heaps better.

Ratio rockers open the valve further, stock rockers are 1.1 to 1 ratio, so say if the cam moves the pushrod 10mm the rocker moves 11mm, with a set of 1.4 to 1 ratio rockers cam moves the same 10mm but valve moves 14mm.
These measurements are just an example of cause.

I am just about to fit a set of Scat 1.4's to my twin cab, and Boris from VVDS is rechipping the computer, I will let you know how it goes.

I sent mine to the shop as a slug. Came back a road terror.

Menangler wrote:I am just about to fit a set of Scat 1.4's to my twin cab, and Boris from VVDS is rechipping the computer, I will let you know how it goes.

Without meaning to be rude, I'd be interested to know how much the rockers and re-chip cost.
From what I remember, the rockers result in richer fuel flow and the re-chip should restore things (increased power from rockers; reduced fuel from re-chip). Am I correct?

My dad's got a T3 Caravelle with the ratio rockers, lightened pushrods but no chip. It cost us around $4K a few years back, but that included new headers.

It runs cooler, loses a bit of bottom end torque but goes a heap better on the top end. Goes a bit better on PULP too.

Don't know about fuel consumption. As its dad's daily driver and he's got it running LPG as well.

[ Edited on 21-10-2005 by spritle ]

Fitted the Scat rockers today and light chrome moly push rods, still has the stock computer, and runs fine, I wouldn't say it runs heaps better, but does rev better and has better top end, down low seems the same.
I still have the stock muffler and cat on it, I will change these to a better flowing system when they rust out!
All up cost so far is $450.00 ish for the rockers and pushrods.

Thanks for that information, Spritle & Menangler.:thumb
I guess the better breathing is what improves the top end performance. $450 is a relatively cheap performance upgrade - I will be interested to hear how happy you are with the investment when you've had the chance to do a bit of driving with it.

Curious also about the advantage of lightened push-rods - what is it supposed to do? is it less inertia? smoother performance?

Correction:

I managed to dig up the original invoice from Vintage VW

- we did get the chip :P along with the pushrods, rockers, new plugs, rotor and leads. And a clutch kit... and the headers...

was wondering why it cost so much :o


hehee... well, it runs heaps better than stock :p

We've got a stainless muffler (stock mild steel one went ages ago) but that didn't make much of a difference.


Not sure what usage you have for your T3, but sometimes we use ours to tow our boat (around 1400kgs) and the loss of a bit of bottom end torque is only noticable when doing hill starts, but then ours is a manual, and your auto's torque converter may mask the lack of torque.

Thank you! This is most informative. :thumb

Suspect the auto transmission is the biggest negative as far as performance and fuel ecomomy goes.
Out of interest, do you keep a track of fuel use? If you do, what has been the usage over the last couple of months - l/100k or mpg?

Just did a trip out west to carnarvon gorge. Fuel varied from 11.48 litres per hundred up to 15.08 L/ph.Van was loaded up and most of the time sitting on 110kph.Head winds and mountains make for the differance.Average for the 1750k trip was 13.53 L/ph. I have had it as good as 9 L/ph sitting on 95kph These figures are spot on with what to expect in the hand book that came with the van when new.

mmm, guess we'll live with it until at some point I chuck some money and go Subaru power. Anyone wanna swap my 72 Deluxe Micro for a Sube conversion on my T3. Christ, thats an aweful way to look at the Microbus aint it. The T3 motor is sound though, so might go with the Becker option for now....have to talk to the Chief....cheers everyone....

The scooby doo is the do! Forget the 22s that people keep touting. Old hat and tired. Same work a little more thought and get the 6 pack.

I'm sure have seen that pic in an overseas magazine a few years ago, sure you havnt been scanning other peoples pics again!

boof2332 wrote:I'm sure have seen that pic in an overseas magazine a few years ago, sure you havnt been scanning other peoples pics again!

You only discredit yourself when you lie.

I can't wait until tomorrow when I post more pics and show everyone what a fool you are.

i'm undecided until that time vdubya

Kroozin_Kikko wrote:i'm undecided until that time vdubya

Do I care?

Matt, are u using bait?
Jak

Please explain?

I have a friend called Ian. All he does is hang around making smart arse comments and annoying people. It is obviously due to some insecurity or problem associated with his upbringing. We all know this, as deep down does he, and thus we leave him to his annoying self. Sometimes however, he needs to be educated on where he stands on the food chain. This is never hard!

Ring the bell school is in Vdubya!

So I scanned these too?

You can thank boofhead for not getting the nitty gritty on this install now. Anyone who is really interested that isn't a clown and understands because they haven't done that it can still be done I will discuss it with you.

One more.

Poor liitle Vdubya is having a sulk and because of my joke, which he is still upset about, none of us are goung to get the nitty gritty on his conversion. You said you sent it to a shop to get the conversion done, so maybe we could ask them about the nitty gritty.

If your that immature to play school like tit for tat games then that is your choice. Why not post a pic of your whole car with you next to it and sign your actual name.

I apologise to the author for the disruption to this thread.

Matt

look, I just skip the tit for tat bits, and realise that after many years in the VW-circle that there are all kinds - those that know, those that think they know and those that just talk it up. Me, I don't know, and love the forum as I can get a range of inputs and then feel like I can make an informed choice.

Not interested in the 'who's bigger' stuff, and as I ain't no expert, I'm realistic enough to know that I'm gonna need help and probably find a mechanic that will do it right - I just need to know 'enough' to ensure that I at least know what they are talking about, have some understanding of the process and costs, so that I don't feel like I'm paying someone to 'learn' how to convert the T3. I can 'learn' the hard way for free at home...but as it's the main family ride now, I don't want a project, just want to make sure I get all the right bits for it and that it's a smooth transition.

Hense the need to find people that have actually had local experience....the Yahoo Group for VW/Sube/Vanagon is packed with happy punters, and got some good advice off there to the point of 'it is not too hard, too exy, and is do-able'.

I need to feel confident that the gearbox won't crap itself, the added torque wont wreck it, the cooling will retro fit, the power steer will work and that the change in 'puter, vss, o2 sensor etc., is do-able - in Australia.

I don't want to know if other people think it's a good idea - I know it is - I was hoping to find useable knowledge, not bragging and slagging...

but thanks to everyone who's posted back, it's all good. Just U2U if you can help and don't feel like getting into a theoretical debate or that someone else is gonna hassle you.

Thanks
Deano

I have fitted the Vintage Vee dub chip to my ute now, and along with the Scat 1.4 rockers, it has made a very handy power inprovement, it's still no rocket ship, but revs better from 2800 rpm, not much difference down low, but cruises much better on the highway.

I have noticed with all the subi conversions I have seen, that the ground clearance at the rear is not good, between the sump and the ground, I know that there are sump conversions available so maybe thay are a bit better.

I have now changed the stock muffler to a 2 & 1/4 inch stainless steel muffler and fitted a hi flo cat, this has made a big difference, more power down low, and easily getting 500k's to a tank of fuel.

Aah!
That's the sort of information I wanted to hear.

I don't have any problems with the performance/lack of acceleration of the Caravelle, but the fuel consumption is appalling - 420km out of a tank of fuel.

Menangler, is your ute a manual or automatic?

I still suspect the automatic is the main culprit, and have dreamt of replacing it with a manual gearbox - has anyone done that?

My ute is a manual,
My wife has an Auto Caravelle, and its fuel economy is like yours, about 450 to a tank at best.

It wouldn't be that hard to convert to manual, but would be easier if you bought a whole manual van to get all the parts off.

i also have an auto caravelle that i have taken 2 inches out of and now i am looking at adding extractors or a nice equivilent to increase performance and economy! is that something i can do in an auto dave? or am i best just leaving it standard?
cheers josh

Josh,
Just leave the stock exhaust and change the muffler to a straight through stainless one, and "hi flow the cat" it makes a big difference.

thanks dave, as always, you are the man!! every time i have needed it, you have been great advice and i thankyou for that!!! from the first show years ago to the 2 ltr you took to spencer for me! cheers mate , i very much appreciate it. a true gentleman of the sport!
cheers josh:beer

so what does the muffler upgrade cost? can i get the upgrade from any exhaust joint or does it have to be vw?and is this still ok for an auto?
cheers josh

Josh,
I bought mine from the local muffler shop, It had to be made, its Stainless steel, 2 1/2 inch, the same size as the stock muffler, but a bit fatter, so I had to modify the stock muffler brackets so it would mount the same, it is straight through muffler with offset inlet and outlet. cost was $260.00, I had to weld all the flanges and make a tail pipe for it too.
The biggest difference I noticed was it is now a lot easier to take off in 2nd gear, I don't use 1st much now.
It should be fine for an auto too.

OOOh, take off with an auto - no where's my turbo lag - off to Muffler Man I go....

cheers dave, once again,.... you are the man!

Yes the straight through muffler on the ute makes a more noise, nothing to worry about.
My auto Caravelle is an auto and it will stay stock, it goes ok like it is, mainly just gets used around town with the odd trip away. The original muffler lasted 15 years.

My Caravelle is really my wife's so the noise factor is a concern. if the muffler carks it I will look into it but in the meantime she likes it stock (and NOT lowered).
It is a sweet ride so there is no real need to "fix" anyhing at the moment.

horses for courses i guess! i was quite surprised when i bought this caravelle thinking it was perfect for my wife as is, and then she hit me with, ' could do with a bigger exhaust, something shiney and throaty like the twin cab' followed by,' can you lower these ones josh'.
of coarse being the gentle man i am, i had to oblige! THE CAR RIDES ALOT FIRMER WITH THE LOWER SPRINGS BUT FEELS ALOT SAFER WITHOUT ALL THE BODY ROLL.[oops...caps lock] and the exhaust needs replacing anyway! first radiator i have had in close to 15 years and i love it!! very comfy and safe!!
cheers josh