HELP on lowering my Oval

HELP on lowering my Oval

Its almost time to slam the Oval.
I would like some help explaining the best way to do this and how much it might cost to hav done professionally.
its not really ride quality im after, i just want a very low car. the front has been lowered already but could be lower, i want to lower the back now.
my setup atm is:
adjustable ball joint front end, one adjuster.
IRS with 4 stud wheels and front discs.
15x5.5 wheels.
what size tyres are the best for running on a lowered car. i hav 215/60 15s on the back which r far too big.
anyway, all ur help is appreciated...
thanks
sam

my oval now...

(BTW, this is one of my favourite VWs.
I believe it is a 1950 Split Window running a 1916 turbo, lowered on BRMs, white paint. love it!)

yellow oval

No way the grey one is a 1950... look at the size of the windscreen and side glass... it's alte model.
Also the shape of the splits.... they have to be grafted ... prolly one of the fibreglass kits...

Just a couple of comments Sam

If you go much lower in the front you may have to consider narrowing your front beams.

Yours looks sweet now - not too low. If you dump it, think of the stresses and strains on your CV joints.

I read in some VW stuff (from Indian Auto I think) that the CV joint angle shouldn't be more than 21 degrees. Whether it's up or down doesn't matter cause if the inner one is angled up, the outer one is angled in the oposite direction; and vice versa.

Clear as mud

:thumb

thanks for the tips on both the split and my CVs,
does anyone else hav some answers to my questions?
thaks for ur help

If you wish to go lower you will need drop spindles as you have a ball joint frontend you can only go so low till the balljoints start to bind.
A narrow beam is also a good help.
This is why most realy low cars still have king pin front ends.
Best of luck.:thumb

I foolly siick dumped my IRS-panned Oval (even before foolly siiick was invented) and I COULDN'T FRIGGEN STAND IT! Speed humps, driveaways, supermarket car parks, cigarette butts.... you will never look at these everyday objects in the same way again. Is your car a daily driver?
You will run into problems with ball-joint bind and shocker stroke dramas at the front, and bump stop clearance at the rear. You can get away with Type 3 front upper bump stops for the rear - gives an extra couple of cm travel before you bottom out. Front - you'll need new shocks and you really cant get away from the BJ problem. Handling will be shithouse, thanks to 'bumpsteer', too. And the angle of your trailing arms compared to the road actually rams your wheels harder into bumps on the road. This increases ride harshness and 'kills' your trailing arms - they will wear, inside your beam tubes, REAL fast.

so Sam , to do the rear ...Have you adjusted rear torsion bars.?
we can word you through this process if needed.

so it looks like this Oval will neva get slammed then?
oh, all my dreams... shattered

yes the car is a daily driver, the ride quality is poor as is over bumps, and i love bump steer, adds excitemnt to my journeys
i havent done anything in the back yet glen, i'd rather not tackle this job on my own though.:bounce:bounce:bounce

have you ever thought of airbags :bounce:beer:beer:beer:beer

BAG IT! I have a airbag kit for an IRS bug, hopefully start making the kits myuself soon!!! I will let everyone know!!!

Cheers N!

do you want to make a kit for a split bus, if its good gear i will look at getting mine done by you
dave:o:o

Unity, i am going to airbag it
but i thought i need to lower it as low as possible first, then put the airbags in coz they dont lower a car, they raise it up?
am i mistaken?
please giv me some info on this, as this is where i am headed. how low can i go, i want pan to the road low.
r u selling ur IRS kit? is it front and rear?
thanks for ur help?

vwfool,
bag it, once my notch's heads are fixed bags are the first thing on the list. you just dont know how super smooth a good bag set-up is! if you go to the airride technologies website it tells you what you need to do and have it'll answer a few of your questions, if you have any more questions let us know. it looks like there are a few people on here who are going the airbag way. i say if something dont scrape it aint low enough!

well yeah can someone answer my questions regarding if i need to lower the car to its maximum 'lowness' BEFORE u bag it? any other comments?

vwfool,
14yo is kinda right, ive spoken to a few guys in the states about there type3 bag setups(as thats what i own and are baging!) they just take out the rear torsion spring which basically means there is nothing fighting against the airbags when deflated. as for the front i have attached a link to the the vw section of the airlift company website(sorry for giving the wrong website in my last post) and it will tell you all you need to know itll also tell you about the rear. any more questions let me know.
Brad

http://www.airliftcompany.com/easystreet/EasyStreetVW.htm

yeah i thought that other website was a bit vague with the information. thansk for the website...
i am looking forward to unity and others to come back on and help answer some more questions

Sam , lowering the back is an adventure.
Youll love the journey.
Just ask and it will all be written for you.
First time its an all day job, but the next time half day or few hours.
Go on ask.........................

anymore questions just ask dude, im sure one of us can spew forth some knowledge!:puke

I believe Your Beetle looks cool Now Sam... I don't know anything about air bags.... I didn't know they put them on Cars... Trucks Yes... What about lowering it a bit more front and rear... BUT !! If You have all those US Dollars $$$$$ Sam... Go for Air Bags... Does that mean BAGS of Money $$$ 😀:o:thumb:thumb:bounce:bounce:bounce

That " early !!! beetle " looks great and I love BIG GLASS anyway... I thought it was the large Glass too... The split windows may have been grafted.... but, If You can put the LARGE Glass in early model doors... putting in steel split windows would be no problem..:o:bounce:bounce

lee, sometimes i dont know wat ur talking about.😀

do u really think i can lower the back myself?
ive read abit about it, sounds pretty complicted if i dont know wat im doing.
if u would like to explain, i am asking, write on my friend...:thumb
still got those questions on airbags though to b answered thanks

VWFOOL wrote:do u really think i can lower the back myself?
ive read abit about it, sounds pretty complicted if i dont know wat im doing.
if u would like to explain, i am asking, write on my friend...:thumb
still got those questions on airbags though to b answered thanks

It's quite easy, but daunting when first setting out.

I think there is an article on it on aussiebug's web site, also one on oldeskool's web site.

i will write it all out, maybe not right now.
I'm sure you could do it.
Do you have a trolley jack.
A good metre length of chain (fairly heavy duty.
A couple of small crow bars or strong levers ( big old screw drivers).
Somewhere flat to work on the car.
?????

Yes Glenn..
Everyone I have spoken to say the same thing... First Time is the HARD time...
After that "its a piece of cake.." old Scone saying...
I hope I don't have to do mine, but I probably will.. they say that the rears do droop a bit after a while.. I hope Mine has... I know a friend who changed his rear torsion bar splines about 4 times one sunday afternoon.... naturally He had done it before... I suppose its a bit like CV Joints .. once You have cleaned and regreased a few of them etc its "a piece of cake" although I'd rather do CV joints than change the rear splines... and both sides have to be identical....

OvalGlen wrote:Sam , lowering the back is an adventure.
Youll love the journey.
Just ask and it will all be written for you.
First time its an all day job, but the next time half day or few hours.
Go on ask.........................

:o

This will take ages to write out- i may get timed out .....
A bit of technical crap - there are two ways to get the angle of the spring plate correct.
1) use a protractor and spirit level , with the car sitting perfectly level.
As I never had a level work area , I developed this other way
2) You use a reference point on the frame and a mark on the spring plate.
Measure with rule between the marks ( and here is the scary bit) use a simple mathematical equation to give you the actual height that the body will drop for each mm at the reference point.
-
Now most will bulk at 2) seems like over complicating things, however once sorted it will give the required drop the same both sides without having to hope that such a such angle will give the right result.
-
Please dont give up here the measuring part can be worked out later after more contributions tell you what they think.
-
Overveiw:
You basically have to remove some parts to enable you to swing the spring plate down below its stop.
This is the unsprung position.
You then change the position of the spring plate on the splines and change the position of the torsion bar in the inner part to give you the required setting.
Put it all back together again and hey man
do it again on the other side,
Roll the car forward and marvel at what a fine job you've done.
-
Are you still in, shall I increase the detail?

Yes , I'm slow I only just noticed Silver's thread - Rob's answer...
http://www.geocities.com/aussiebug1970/rearaxle.html
This is an excellent description courtesy of Rob and Dave.
I'll go into detail on my measuring and calculating method to give the option for measuring the spring plate angle.

heres what I think you should do, Drop spindles, narrowed beam with adjusters. what sucks about doing that to a ball joint beam is that they hang down low as hell, unlike a link pin that hangs up inside the car. Airbags are always a good alternative but I dont trust the sleeve bags that come with those kits. Good luck
this is my oval on a 5 inch narrowed beam with drop spindles. looks a little different now though.

[Edited on 5-4-2003 by TheGermanFolks]

Scott could you send more pics ? Please

sketch for the calculation

Key: m = distance between marks (small centre punch or scratchs)
r = distance from centre of torsion bar to your mark.
w = the amount to lower at the top of the wheel.
a = length of arm (centre of torsion bar to centre of wheel) on my beetle 420 mm.
-
Calculation:
m = w/ a x r
m = w / 420 x r
so example.
the distance to adjust between your marks ( m ) is
( w ) say eg 25 mm divided by 420 multiplied by ( r ) eg 150 mm.
continuing the example...
m = 25 / 420 x 150
m = 8.9 mm
So the difference between the marks is 8.9 mm.
*
so you swing the spring plate down to the unsprung position below the stop &
mark the spring plate and somewhere on the suspension ... measure this in mm -> this is your start distance.
Take the spring plate off the torsion bar turn the bar and re-install the spring plate , check the reference mark and when you have it at 8.9 mm less than the start distance, you can assemble it all.
*
Ok its easy once you try it.
The idea of Robs to measure the bottom end of the spring plate to the ground is similar but not as accurate.
What do you think?

sounds good mate
thansk for the help
i might just giv that a try, but first i will get some smaller widrth tryes on the back coz the gaurd on the right sits right above the rubber at the moment.
i wil also get some negative camber adjustment too to the drivers side rear.
afetr that i should giv it a go.
thanks again for ur help
sam

Dropped spindles would drop the front another few inches without any adverse effects, but you may have to narrow the front beam just to gain clearance under the guards.

The procedure to adjust the rear ride height is in the workshop manual. I don't have one for an IRS bug, but I can offer you a scanned copy of either a swing-axle bug or an IRS type 3. Either way, the procedure is much the same.

Wes posted a nice little program recently for calculating height adjustments, try a search.