what do u guys(and girls) think about my idea of inverting the firewall to have an intercooler under it above the box running thermo fans and ducting from below? to suck air thru it? its achieveable in my opinion and sever drop in interior space ISNT an issue either so other than that whast your views?
helbus ·
It's a great idea. Can't wait to see pics of the install. What timeframe are you looking at until it is ready?
silverbullet ·
i have done some thing similar in my conversion i have move my fire wall 15cm forward and it sits behind that. i managed to fit a 50 x40x 8 cm intercooler in there tight fit though. I duct all my fresh cool air from scoops in the side of the car through the car and into the new parcel shelf. Works great. No need to run a thermo in my car keeeps temp around 40 degrees.
jvl054 ·
silverbullet wrote:i have done some thing similar in my conversion i have move my fire wall 15cm forward and it sits behind that. i managed to fit a 50 x40x 8 cm intercooler in there tight fit though. I duct all my fresh cool air from scoops in the side of the car through the car and into the new parcel shelf. Works great. No need to run a thermo in my car keeeps temp around 40 degrees.
Yep great idea!!!Thermos just a waste of time and money:thumbJVLRacing:thumb
pete wood ·
I guess you mean an air to air intercooler.
Well the bad news is, Air to air are less effective than water to air. You are better off using a Liberty RS water to air intercooler and running pipes to a small radiator at the front of the car. This also means you can fill the water reserviour with ice on track days for even lower intake temps.
All the serious competition drag cars use this set up with dry ice for the ultimate cooling.😏
Added to this, rear mount radiators/intercoolers are generally compromised in some way. Trust me I know cause I have a rear mount radiator, it works ok, but a front mount would have been so much easier as the air supply at the front is much bigger and cooler with less turbulence and often no ducting needed at all.
JVL,
I'm kinda surprised you think this is a good idea given your bonnet/radiator/intercooler setup.
DIY-DUB ·
ok so going with the air-water option do you believe there would be sufficent room for both a radiator and intercooler, installed in the spare wheel well like how jak rizzo has done, so it sits flat with a sheet above where the standard spare would sit and infront of the frame head.
71superbug ·
wouldnt mounting the intercooler at the front of the car produce heaps of lag due to the distance it would be away from the motor?
Easiest way seems to be to have it in a wing like REUB does.
or could you have two of the small pwr type radiators (one under each rear guard) which feed the intercooler with its air? (for water to air setup)
Anthony
GTMac ·
Only the radiator for the air/water intercooler is mounted at the front, not the actual IC itself. I have both radiator and IC radiator at front in spare wheel area, but yes my car is also a fastback so different space issue.
Go the water/air IC in my opinion.
Volkswagenboy ·
What about twin inercoolers under the guards?
jvl054 ·
pete wood wrote:I guess you mean an air to air intercooler.
Well the bad news is, Air to air are less effective than water to air. You are better off using a Liberty RS water to air intercooler and running pipes to a small radiator at the front of the car. This also means you can fill the water reserviour with ice on track days for even lower intake temps.
All the serious competition drag cars use this set up with dry ice for the ultimate cooling.😏
Added to this, rear mount radiators/intercoolers are generally compromised in some way. Trust me I know cause I have a rear mount radiator, it works ok, but a front mount would have been so much easier as the air supply at the front is much bigger and cooler with less turbulence and often no ducting needed at all.
JVL,
I'm kinda surprised you think this is a good idea given your bonnet/radiator/intercooler setup.
Why!!!!My home work was done! ....My Rad runs 65degs with no thermos running.My Intercooler runs forced air to a box that dispurses the air over the top of Intercooler NO ICE NEEDED.JVLRacing
1303Steve ·
Hi
I bought a RS Liberty air 2 water IC for $150 from SSS in Sydney, came with a water pump and front mount radiator.
Steve
hellbugged ·
Helbus wrote:It's a great idea. Can't wait to see pics of the install. What timeframe are you looking at until it is ready?
:thumb
DIY-DUB ·
Helbus wrote:It's a great idea. Can't wait to see pics of the install. What timeframe are you looking at until it is ready?
No timeframe just tossing up a few ideas for more experienced opinions, the more the merrier, saves doing things twice, well hopefully, all im after is info currently, and there will be pics etc as i go and when ive decided on final configuration? i think the word is.
Cheers FCB
DIY-DUB ·
oh yeh timeframe ive given myself 2 be 100% complete is in my "THE BUG" thread, and reasons 4 picking it also, im hoping 2 acheive it by then, if not sooner, only thing that will limit it is availabe time and cash, both of which i will have a hell of alot more of soon.😀
boof2332 ·
Mine has the intercooler where you describe with thermos in a box and i duct air from under the rear window. Works a treat, although you do have to have the thermos on all the time. Themps however are really cool. With no fans on it stays at 40 degrees, with the fans on I have ambient temps..if its 30 outside, so is the intake temps. With the water spray, it drops it about another 10 to approx 20.
Do not forget the cold air box that will also help alot....I have recently made a scoop in the rear gaurd that feeds the rampod.
Here are a couple of pics...I think.
Water to air is the best solution given the rear set up, although I want to make some 996 turbo side vents and ren that on the cooler.
JVL.....where have you been??? Is your car running yet???
No wonder you had some problems....65 water temp is far too cold..most oils do not work properly till 80.
Matt
DIY-DUB ·
thanks 4 the info/pics boof, your one of the people that im drawing inspiration from:thumb
boof2332 ·
I am trying something different today..will let you all know how it works. Reubs chopped roof will help, although there is not alot of airflow down the rear window of a bug after about 60 kmh. This is due to the steep front window, the air turbulates high off the back of the roof. Thus the need for thermos even in one like reubs. The new RSi Beetle has a roof spoiler that helps push air down onto the rear spoiler...or did anyone see the old pics of the berg drag car that had the forced induction system via a large intake at the rear of the roof.
Matt
pete wood ·
That's Clyde Bergs car. It's NA but uses a sunroof shaped hole in the roof to scoop the air in. Then he has tunable airboxes on top of each carbie.
Water to air is the best solution given the rear set up, although I want to make some 996 turbo side vents and ren that on the cooler.
JVL.....where have you been??? Is your car running yet???
No wonder you had some problems....65 water temp is far too cold..most oils do not work properly till 80.
Matt
Sorry Matt disagree with temps! and oil is not the prob....The chain is rolling..JVLRacing
boof2332 ·
I know oil was not your problem..just stirring!
Although for oil to offer the correct protection/performance, they have optimal operating temps.As race engines revv hard for long periods with or without boost(depending on event), it is logical that peak operating temps would hotter rather than cooler.
Anyway, where is your car??? Bring it to Boofs Racing Werks and you will be racing in no time. Hours of operation are...8.30pm-4.30am any night except when I am on with the kids(alternate) 8.30-12.30am. Also open anytime the wife is out.
Matt
71superbug ·
yeah JVL i wanna see some more of your car!!!
i have only seen one or two pics and that was AGES ago.
Anthony
jvl054 ·
boof2332 wrote:I know oil was not your problem..just stirring!
Although for oil to offer the correct protection/performance, they have optimal operating temps.As race engines revv hard for long periods with or without boost(depending on event), it is logical that peak operating temps would hotter rather than cooler.
Anyway, where is your car??? Bring it to Boofs Racing Werks and you will be racing in no time. Hours of operation are...8.30pm-4.30am any night except when I am on with the kids(alternate) 8.30-12.30am. Also open anytime the wife is out.
Matt
:PYeah nice offer!!!!I have a set deal soughted ready to go.Funds are soughted,some nice goodies as well.Work and time is holding me back.......(It is logical that peak operating temps would hotter rather than cooler)....4hours of straight Engine Dyno time tells me my Engine is proof in the pudding Matt.Then again after speaking to Jako Skafie Rizzo my set up is alot different to the road going subie conversions that you blokes have done.....The darkside is looking stronger:vaderJVL
jvl054 ·
Jak Rizzo wrote:
71superbug wrote:yeah JVL i wanna see some more of your car!!!
i have only seen one or two pics and that was AGES ago.
Anthony
I don't think anyone else has ever seen this pic, JVl Racing on the track!!!
For those non believers that thought the car didn't exist!
:PGood on you Skaife!!! you Captilise!...making money$$$$ for your racing adventures:PJVL
boof2332 ·
I want to be a Captilise too!👍
jvl054 ·
boof2332 wrote:I want to be a Captilise too!👍
A Car Yard full of EJ20Ts now that a Franchise for a Salesman!!!!(Matt):PJVL
71superbug ·
damn your car is cool jvl.
Anthony
hellbugged ·
71superbug wrote:damn your car is cool jvl.
Anthony
you should see the trailer!!:P
hi Jon. seriuosly i think its well due for a bit of a shoot on AVD, i've got a camera, what you up to in the next couple of days?
Damien
hellbugged ·
no no Jak, its been changed, modified, evolved since those photos!
I too have seen it running on a track!
yeah truely, I have, honestly, no kidding🙂
[ Edited on 8-1-06 by dumone ]
jvl054 ·
Jak Rizzo wrote:Yes , it's been changed, evolved etc, it got painted orange, new ecu.
As good as it looks standing still I want to see it in group 1 with the GT3's at the Porsche club track days!:thumb
not looking flash on the back of a trailer.
regards
Jak
PS running around valla does not qualify as being on a race track.
Give me a break!!!Iam inbarrass that the f###in thing is not going.AGREE Jako Skaife Rizzo ...group 1 with GT3s but at the moment this deal i have will have me running there thats my aim.On the back of a trailer is about how fast its going:o......Get the subject back on about intercoolers!JVL
DIY-DUB ·
thanks jvl, so who reckons my idea is a good one and what other alternatives do we all have...
hellbugged ·
what not happy with digging up some photos of both an intercooler set up, similar to what you're after, and a rollcage:duh
i think boofs set up is great.
cheers
heres another one-L.M.S water to air-not so much work, less intrusive!
[ Edited on 8-1-06 by dumone ]
hellbugged ·
what about a barrel water/air intercooler by P.W.R?
Works for MR Swinkles
could mount behind seat.with a lil rad elsewhere.some people have used a motorbike radiator.
not vw, but this is what they look like.
hellbugged ·
another one (my favourite)
jvl054 ·
Some nice stuff there dumone!!!!:thumb very interesting last pic.You dont have a full pic do you of car.JVLRacing
I suspect a decklid is the least of his concerns...
4 barrell drawthrough carb + intercooler = crazy big explosion on backfiring 🤪
Ask Trent Demos what happens when you use a revlimiter on a drawthrough setup. He shattered his inlet manifold when it backfired and the pooling fuel exploded. An intercooler full of fuel would be much much worse. Think miniture world trade center on sept 11.👎
Why haven't the Yanks got the whole EFI thingo yet? :o
1303Steve ·
Hi
They are gradually seeing the light. Didnt notice the the intercooler, thought just another 4 barrel setup.
Steve
boof2332 ·
Got a water to air yesterday....$100. Needs a pump though. Now, where to place the radiators.....wherever it may be, rest assured there will be some form of massive scoop or duct infront of it!
Too much time on my hands, I need a job thats not 2 weeks off and one on.
Matt