Thought i'd give the ol formula vee's a plug.
http://www.fvee.org.au
This is what also can be done with beetle components!!!
pringa8 路
Aussieveedubbers 路 VW Site of the Week
Formula Vee website - plug!
https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/threads/49191/formula-vee-website-plug
pete wood 路
yeah I went there and joined the forum, but it seems like no one has touched it in years 馃檨
tassupervee 路
Pete
ur right, not a lot happens on that forum.
I have a lot of fun in this one. Look down in "Global Discussion" Where the Aussies tend to hang out.
http://first.formulavee.org/exchange/index.php
Its for Formula First (1600FV) but most of the discussion is relevant as their First rules are heavily influenced by Australian 1600's and vice versa.
This on is on the same server and is deicated to 1200 FV:
http://www.formulavee.org/interchange/index.php#1
And this one is just getting going now:
http://www.eformulacarnews.com/forum.php
Formula First is about half way down the index.
Have fun men. I know I do!
[ Edited on 28/2/06 by tassupervee ]
ur right, not a lot happens on that forum.
I have a lot of fun in this one. Look down in "Global Discussion" Where the Aussies tend to hang out.
http://first.formulavee.org/exchange/index.php
Its for Formula First (1600FV) but most of the discussion is relevant as their First rules are heavily influenced by Australian 1600's and vice versa.
This on is on the same server and is deicated to 1200 FV:
http://www.formulavee.org/interchange/index.php#1
And this one is just getting going now:
http://www.eformulacarnews.com/forum.php
Formula First is about half way down the index.
Have fun men. I know I do!
[ Edited on 28/2/06 by tassupervee ]
pringa8 路
Geez there's some heated tyre discussion!!!!
Who's this Daniel anyway?? I seem to recall the same dramas with Dunlops being introduced, control manifolds being introduced and so on....
Who's this Daniel anyway?? I seem to recall the same dramas with Dunlops being introduced, control manifolds being introduced and so on....
tassupervee 路
I have a feeling it daniel pauperis. Ian will be able to confirm this.
All the guys that are toeing the hard party line are NSW guys.
Guess which state handled the entired AAR thing???
There was a better errrm "discussion" on the board but when the seppos had all that virus trouble a few months back the thread was lost.
I enjoyed that one. David Cutts and a couple of others got in on it and things flew around nicely.
Hahahaha I dont like holding back!!
L8tr
E
All the guys that are toeing the hard party line are NSW guys.
Guess which state handled the entired AAR thing???
There was a better errrm "discussion" on the board but when the seppos had all that virus trouble a few months back the thread was lost.
I enjoyed that one. David Cutts and a couple of others got in on it and things flew around nicely.
Hahahaha I dont like holding back!!
L8tr
E
pringa8 路
I had a feeling it was THAT Daniel. He is a useless bastard! I dont know what his engineering/electrical skills are like, but I know he cannot race for SH*T! Completely useless.
Yes, the NSW series can get a little funny at times. I'm still not sure why everyone is pushing EFI so much. Why not just get a decent carby that was actually made for performance (and not just fuel efficiency) and use that??
For some reason they seem to think jetting is separating the field but there's soooo many other factors it's not funny! Being in Canberra, we get out of the loop of the sydney boys eg, we just found out that people are using stainless steel valves instead of the standard ones (cause they're deemed a standard replacement item) though I'm quite sure a lot of people aren't using the standard profile as stipulated...
The thing is, I think there's a lot more easier solutions to acheive parity then using an EFI system.
Yes, the NSW series can get a little funny at times. I'm still not sure why everyone is pushing EFI so much. Why not just get a decent carby that was actually made for performance (and not just fuel efficiency) and use that??
For some reason they seem to think jetting is separating the field but there's soooo many other factors it's not funny! Being in Canberra, we get out of the loop of the sydney boys eg, we just found out that people are using stainless steel valves instead of the standard ones (cause they're deemed a standard replacement item) though I'm quite sure a lot of people aren't using the standard profile as stipulated...
The thing is, I think there's a lot more easier solutions to acheive parity then using an EFI system.
tassupervee 路
Nate
The EFI thing is possibly more a concession to modernising the category (along with 1600's BJ beams, R & P steering, inboard shocks, disks and blah, all introduced some years ago) as was the case when Cams looked closely at dropping the Vee category some years back.
The issue appeared at the time as a lack of new competitors and jaded existing competitors and an overall image problem with the cars with their ancient suspensions, engines and steering and factor in a percieved future shortage of 1200cc clobber (since 1200's have not been made in a while).
Efi was an additional approach toward modernising the engineering of the category.
In my personal view, a good one (from the modernising/image viewpoint) but, as you rightly point out, little if any improvement in performance.
The performance issue is not with the carbs anyway, even allowing for our ancient 36Hp carbs as the carbs even now, outflow the 1200 heads by quite a bit so altering carbs and so-on is pretty much a waste of time and energy unless there are significant head and valve size modifications to exploit them.
The thing is, the EFI system (Im pretty sure Daniel has been working on) is a really old school throttle body injection affair and testing of it has proven it to be pretty much a pointless exercise. Its basically a fancy electronic carb and manufacturers did away with such ju8nk many years ago in favour of a simple group fire, multi-injector setup.
If EFI continues to be an option on the table, which I believe it will be, then they need to approach a major local manufacturer, the likes of Microtech, Link, Wolf, EMS and others to provide the ECU, wiring loom, temp and crank angle sensors and source something like a supply of mexican Beetle 1600 EFI manifold stubs or locally modify stock 1600 stubs to carry some generic Bosch injectors off a million little Japperice shopping trolleys. blah.
Include a 2 bob single TB off something as well. Remember, the limiting factor to performance in these things is the fundamental design of the head porting so it is not necessary to specify a given size of TB.
A kraut was never intended to power an open wheel race car was it!
A very simple wasted spark ignition system, doing away with the tiresome and fiddly stock dizzie, points and so-on as well.
The total cost would run to about 1500 dollars and the ECU's come loaded with a generic map, ready to go making it a "plug and play affair.
Most manufacturers are now including closed loop "autotune" features into their ECU's now and this would take any guesswork out of the installation and subsequent tuning.
Your quite right about the carb tuning thing tho!
Even tho there is a fair difference between carbs as far as performance is concerned, there is no real black art in getting the stock carbs to run well, altho plenty of guys seem to have elevated the tuning status of these robust and basic carbs to stratospheric engineering and rocket science levels due to plain and simple ignorance to outright lies and deception.
A simple range of air correctors and 2 or 3 mains is all that is necessary if you have a simple air density/jetting chart handy. There is no guesswork after the initial dyno runs or ego readings. Bah!.
2 stroke Bike racers have been using these basic items for many years and those screaming 380 BHP/Litre engines are far more fiddly on mixtures than any dak dak plonking away at....wait for it......6000rpm!.
I use a simple wide band EGO sensor and LED display in my car anyway. Makes the job of tuning a doddle. If it lights the middle LED's the thing is running at about 13.5. Almost all adjustment can be done with air correction and mebbe a main change! All too easy.
Suckh is life tho!!
L8tr
E
The EFI thing is possibly more a concession to modernising the category (along with 1600's BJ beams, R & P steering, inboard shocks, disks and blah, all introduced some years ago) as was the case when Cams looked closely at dropping the Vee category some years back.
The issue appeared at the time as a lack of new competitors and jaded existing competitors and an overall image problem with the cars with their ancient suspensions, engines and steering and factor in a percieved future shortage of 1200cc clobber (since 1200's have not been made in a while).
Efi was an additional approach toward modernising the engineering of the category.
In my personal view, a good one (from the modernising/image viewpoint) but, as you rightly point out, little if any improvement in performance.
The performance issue is not with the carbs anyway, even allowing for our ancient 36Hp carbs as the carbs even now, outflow the 1200 heads by quite a bit so altering carbs and so-on is pretty much a waste of time and energy unless there are significant head and valve size modifications to exploit them.
The thing is, the EFI system (Im pretty sure Daniel has been working on) is a really old school throttle body injection affair and testing of it has proven it to be pretty much a pointless exercise. Its basically a fancy electronic carb and manufacturers did away with such ju8nk many years ago in favour of a simple group fire, multi-injector setup.
If EFI continues to be an option on the table, which I believe it will be, then they need to approach a major local manufacturer, the likes of Microtech, Link, Wolf, EMS and others to provide the ECU, wiring loom, temp and crank angle sensors and source something like a supply of mexican Beetle 1600 EFI manifold stubs or locally modify stock 1600 stubs to carry some generic Bosch injectors off a million little Japperice shopping trolleys. blah.
Include a 2 bob single TB off something as well. Remember, the limiting factor to performance in these things is the fundamental design of the head porting so it is not necessary to specify a given size of TB.
A kraut was never intended to power an open wheel race car was it!
A very simple wasted spark ignition system, doing away with the tiresome and fiddly stock dizzie, points and so-on as well.
The total cost would run to about 1500 dollars and the ECU's come loaded with a generic map, ready to go making it a "plug and play affair.
Most manufacturers are now including closed loop "autotune" features into their ECU's now and this would take any guesswork out of the installation and subsequent tuning.
Your quite right about the carb tuning thing tho!
Even tho there is a fair difference between carbs as far as performance is concerned, there is no real black art in getting the stock carbs to run well, altho plenty of guys seem to have elevated the tuning status of these robust and basic carbs to stratospheric engineering and rocket science levels due to plain and simple ignorance to outright lies and deception.
A simple range of air correctors and 2 or 3 mains is all that is necessary if you have a simple air density/jetting chart handy. There is no guesswork after the initial dyno runs or ego readings. Bah!.
2 stroke Bike racers have been using these basic items for many years and those screaming 380 BHP/Litre engines are far more fiddly on mixtures than any dak dak plonking away at....wait for it......6000rpm!.
I use a simple wide band EGO sensor and LED display in my car anyway. Makes the job of tuning a doddle. If it lights the middle LED's the thing is running at about 13.5. Almost all adjustment can be done with air correction and mebbe a main change! All too easy.
Suckh is life tho!!
L8tr
E