Hello everyone, a good suggestion was made by Bizarre to post some links that address the issue of unleaded fuel as it is asked so frequently. So here are a few that will help get the research started - if those links don't provide the necessary information, then ask away for advice.
So do any of you use unleaded in your dubs at all?
vw54 ·
yep use it all the time in my 1916 with injection
johny rotten ·
Every one does,
you can't buy leaded fuel 🤪
VWCOOL ·
Natwest wrote:So do any of you use unleaded in your dubs at all?
well, there's nothing else these days..!
I usually use PULP in mine - standard and hottie engines
68AutoBug ·
I use 95 ULP as 91 is recommended for vw engines
and normal ULP can be from 87-91 approx
from memory
I have used normal unleaded at times without any problems
- caltex or shell
LEE
humpty ·
PULP will be fine for most apps but I have found 98 is better in my cars... I do a lot of commuting and long distance driving and it does get hot here....
And all my engines are modified....
Jaeger ·
98 is good for the older cars, and is closest to the original octane rating of leaded fuel.
Shell Mobil or BP personally. Not a fan of Caltex
type3user ·
Mine runs on an oily rag😂😂😂
beetleboy88 ·
Iv'e got a friend who used unleaded in her engine and it blew the engine! after she put a new engine in she was told to only put premium unleaded in the car otherwise unleaded petrol will burn the engine to bits!
dAVo ·
So PULP is still ok to use even if you don't have your engine upgraded to run unleaded? You don't need to add lead replacement?
I was told by a trusted VW mechanic that these things are good to have... CLICK HERE
Does anyone on here have one of these installed. If so then what's it like? If not then why not?
colonel mustard ·
beetleboy88 wrote:Iv'e got a friend who used unleaded in her engine and it blew the engine! after she put a new engine in she was told to only put premium unleaded in the car otherwise unleaded petrol will burn the engine to bits!
Yes, because she didnt add valvesaver/lead additive.. and burnt the valves resulting in bad things happening. Thats what you get for not thinking about when a car was made and taking proper care of it.
desh ·
I use BP unleaded 95 with the Flashlube Valve Saver
I think the BP Ultimate unleaded 98 might cause air cooled cars to run hotter due to the higher octane rating,
grumble ·
I am not sure whether a few stations or distributors are cheating and putting the ethanol blend in the unleaded tank,but on a couple of occasions recently I have come across VW's which have suddenly swollen the fuel hoses and fuel pump started leaking.i personally prefer Shell 95 or 98 and Flashlube. The higher octane rating theoretically should not cause overheating,in previous years we always used super and occasionally tossed a gallon of Methyl Benzine for a bit more go with no detrimental effects.
h ·
i run BP 98 with flash lube.. works sweet as
humpty ·
desh wrote:I think the BP Ultimate unleaded 98 might cause air cooled cars to run hotter due to the higher octane rating,
Errrmmm.... No.
Put the highest octane that you can get in... I have only run PULP and now 98 in my VW's since it first came on the market....
A little known fact...
All VW head built since the mid 70's have been built at the factory using quality valves, hardened seats and silicone bronze guides perfect for the use of unleaded fuels... This came about because the US made the move to replace Leaded fuels around this time... California was the first state to do so.... Almost over night Leaded fuel was band from sale in So-Cal and Nor-Cal followed not long after. Naturally the aftermarket at the time was a little slow on the uptake, but they paid the price for their tardiness!
In Australia the factory followed suit as the heads and relevant components came from Germany... Any head rebuilt outside of the factory could have the incorrect valves, seats and guides installed, but it is unlikely given that fact that the ability, tooling and components to rebuild heads were developed by Joe Vittone at European Motor Products Inc in the late 50's... And upgraded in the 70's to suit the modern fuels being developed at the time.
desh ·
Thanks humpty for the clarification re 98 octane fuel, that's the great thing about these forums, you always learn something new everyday.
humpty ·
Higher Octane = Cooler running.... And I have never run additives either...
But be warned... Not all 98RON fuel is the same.... I'm testing E10 at the moment and the results look pretty good... Cooler running, better mileage, cleaner emissions.... But the real test will be when I pull the heads and observe the condition of the topend....
sik068 ·
Guys take a look at Redline oils lead substitute at redlineoil.com.au
can get it from Coventrys and Auto1
works a treat as does the fuel system cleaner
used it on my buggy for years
bajachris88 ·
humpty wrote:Higher Octane = Cooler running.... And I have never run additives either...
no no!
As octane gets greater, the Hotter in fact it actually runs.
the burn is slower, and more 'heat' energy is released. if the octane is high enough, the burning fuel would actually still be in the burning process whilst passing through the exhaust valve and manifold, resulting in burnt valves and a dramatic increase in engine bay temperature.
{NOTE: this is not a back fire as the 'ignition' for this burning mixture took place in the combustion chamber, however is finishing up in the exhaust manifold)
(practically the complete opposite of detonation/pinging from 'too low' octane which obviously you don't want from too low octane otherwise it ain't half obvious that internal pressures are going to go off the charts).
I speak from a VERY nasty experience after running a combo of 98 octane and 4 point nulon racing octane booster. (yes stupid but it was an experience to get the most hp by advancing the ignition as much as possible with the higher octane to increase the ability to advance the timing without any pinging). mind you that was ONE VERY nasty cruise. overheating is never fun.
People have established that unleaded fuel is vw friendly. if it pings at 91 octane, check that timing is not too advanced and properly timed. if it is, then go 95 octane. but there is no need to jump to 98 if 95 isn't pinging. It will run hotter with no hp benefits, unless you advance the ignition timing by feel to keep the 'mixture burn' in that combustion chamber.
and you would probably squeeze a couple more hp by advancing so as the higher octane contains the greater energy. I doubt 98 would cause any damage though, but let it be out there that it will definitely not run cooler with a higher octane.
It may or may not pose any damaging threats, but if 95 works, why risk unless certain?
68AutoBug ·
Yes,
I had a local with a new harley looking japanese bike..
He said the chromed exhausts went blue when he used PULP..
actually, the past two weeks i've been running My beetle with normal ULP for the first time...
engine seems to be going better??
smoother????
I've still got My 009 distributor at 32 degrees BTDC..
always starts first go every time...
LEE
Craig Torrens ·
bajachris88 wrote:
humpty wrote:Higher Octane = Cooler running.... And I have never run additives either...
no no!
As octane gets greater, the Hotter in fact it actually runs.
the burn is slower, and more 'heat' energy is released. if the octane is high enough, the burning fuel would actually still be in the burning process whilst passing through the exhaust valve and manifold, resulting in burnt valves and a dramatic increase in engine bay temperature.
{NOTE: this is not a back fire as the 'ignition' for this burning mixture took place in the combustion chamber, however is finishing up in the exhaust manifold)
(practically the complete opposite of detonation/pinging from 'too low' octane which obviously you don't want from too low octane otherwise it ain't half obvious that internal pressures are going to go off the charts).
I speak from a VERY nasty experience after running a combo of 98 octane and 4 point nulon racing octane booster. (yes stupid but it was an experience to get the most hp by advancing the ignition as much as possible with the higher octane to increase the ability to advance the timing without any pinging). mind you that was ONE VERY nasty cruise. overheating is never fun.
People have established that unleaded fuel is vw friendly. if it pings at 91 octane, check that timing is not too advanced and properly timed. if it is, then go 95 octane. but there is no need to jump to 98 if 95 isn't pinging. It will run hotter with no hp benefits, unless you advance the ignition timing by feel to keep the 'mixture burn' in that combustion chamber.
and you would probably squeeze a couple more hp by advancing so as the higher octane contains the greater energy. I doubt 98 would cause any damage though, but let it be out there that it will definitely not run cooler with a higher octane.
It may or may not pose any damaging threats, but if 95 works, why risk unless certain?
what a load of rubbish.
your engine ran hot cause you advanced it, not due to the 98 octane.
And Lee, the max advance for the 009 should be set at 29.5 Deg not 32 Deg.
silver ·
colonel mustard wrote:
beetleboy88 wrote:Iv'e got a friend who used unleaded in her engine and it blew the engine! after she put a new engine in she was told to only put premium unleaded in the car otherwise unleaded petrol will burn the engine to bits!
Yes, because she didnt add valvesaver/lead additive.. and burnt the valves resulting in bad things happening. Thats what you get for not thinking about when a car was made and taking proper care of it.
more rubbish! I have never added valve saver you don't need to waste your money
(maybe it comes in a shiny bottle)
bajachris88 ·
Craig Torrens wrote:what a load of rubbish.
your engine ran hot cause you advanced it, not due to the 98 octane.
And Lee, the max advance for the 009 should be set at 29.5 Deg not 32 Deg.
I believe it and still stand by it, google it and see.
how scientifically would it run cooler?
if i have 2 kg of tnt blowing up in my engine (more energy) than 1 kg, it would run cooler?
high octane cars don't run cooler.
humpty ·
bajachris88 wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:what a load of rubbish.
your engine ran hot cause you advanced it, not due to the 98 octane.
And Lee, the max advance for the 009 should be set at 29.5 Deg not 32 Deg.
I believe it and still stand by it, google it and see.
how scientifically would it run cooler?
if i have 2 kg of tnt blowing up in my engine (more energy) than 1 kg, it would run cooler?
high octane cars don't run cooler.
You believe what Wiki and Google say?.... Don't you know that there are loads of nutbags on the www saying what ever they feel is correct without any knowledge at all?.... Kinda like what's happening here!!! 😂 But the concept is pretty simple really.... Higher Octane Fuel produces a cleaner more efficient burn than lower octane.... It's not hotter, it's more efficient... Get it?...
So logic would suggest that if the burn is poorer and less efficient, the gasses are slower moving and are potentially denser than a high octane burn. If this is the case, then it stands to reason that the heat generated will stay in the chamber longer, producing the pinging phenomenon, compounding the problem further by burning valves, pounding seats and general misbehavior...
bajachris88 ·
well it was my personal experience.
I agree it runs more efficient and burns slower, even acts richer, not questioning that, but if u have it burn that slow that it is still burning while passing through the exhaust valve and the manifold, things are gonna get hot as the manifold gets hot and heats up the air more than usual, as what happened with the 102 octane.
engine bay temperature increases, therefore intake air temperature increases, rada rada. then the whole general temperature increases, let alone the worry of burnt valves
from my experiance with air cooled engines tuning is what controls temp and you must tune to suit the fuel you using.
trickysimon ·
You don't need additive in >68 beetles. Countries like America had unleaded fuel long before Aus got it. So VW changed it to suit.
Anthiron ·
Chris, how far advanced did you have your timing?
it had nothing to do with the fuel and everything to do with your advance.
ask drag racers why they dont run the same advance on their street cars that they do on their drag cars........cos they will go boom.
I run 98BP Ultimate in my baja. its the only fuel that i trust. Shell 98 runs like crap in my engine and ive been burnt by bad fuel from independents too many times.
i rarely run a valve lubricant. sometimes i do just for kicks. maybe every 8 or so tanks i put a little bottle of valve saver in.
i run my 009 statically timed to 7.5BTDC and i have no issues.
Craig Torrens ·
yep and a 009 has a 22 deg advance curve.......so 7.5 static plus 22 will give you 29.5deg max advance 👍
If you think high octane fuels run hotter than low octane fuel in the same motor you're a goose😀
Gixer41960 ·
I only run 98 octane in my car as I know that they don't add additives like ethanol to it.
Ethanol will introduce too much water to the vehicles fuel system and engine causing problems with corrosion etc.
68AutoBug ·
Anthiron wrote:i run my 009 statically timed to 7.5BTDC and i have no issues.
009s need to be timed at maximum revs to get the correct timing... 30-32 degrees maximum revs...
I have been using SHELL 95 & 98 in My 1600 single port engine for the past few years [engine overhauled low kms]
and recently I filled up with normal ULP and My beetle has been going the best it ever has gone... I had installed new spark plugs and leads, dizzy cap and points.. tappets done.
I do have a new SVDA with Pertronix to fit soon..
[from air cooled.net in USA]
the timing has NOT been adjusted... apart from adjusting the points.. always checked with a timing light...
LEE
68AutoBug ·
Gixer41960 wrote:I only run 98 octane in my car as I know that they don't add additives like ethanol to it.
Ethanol will introduce too much water to the vehicles fuel system and engine causing problems with corrosion etc.
Ethanol is ONLY in Petrol that IS labelled ETHANOL... E10 etc..
Not in any others... it cannot be added to ULP without being labelled...
I ran a magna for years with BOGAS petrol with Ethanol...
without any problems...
although I wouldn't use E10 in My beetle... or any of My cars now,,, not because of the rust?? issue...
LEE
Gixer41960 ·
Water is attracted to ethanol, newer cars that run platic and rubber throughout everything don't have as much a problem but older cars that have metal fuel tanks and fuel lines etc will find problems with the extra water that is running through the car. I've heard that the eastern states plan to have ethanol mixed fuel only at the pumps in the near future and that includes higher mixes of e20 and up. The following quote is from - FCAI SUBMISSION TO THE VICTORIAN INQUIRY INTO MANDATING THE USE OF ETHANOL AND BIOFUELS IN VICTORIA
AUGUST 2007
"ETHANOL/PETROL BLENDS
EXISTING VEHICLE FLEET
MATERIAL COMPATIBILITY ISSUES
The use of E10 blended petrol is widely accepted in many modern makes of car. However, ethanol can cause early deterioration of components in fuel systems such as fuel tanks, fuel lines/hoses, injector seals, delivery pipes, fuel pump and regulators, particularly in older vehicles.
Vehicles with carburettor fuel systems may experience hot fuel handling concerns and may also experience a lower level of durability in some fuel system components.
Some manufacturers advise not to use E10 with any model equipped with a carburettor because of material incompatibility.
Also this was taken from our RAA web site on E10 fuel.
Will Ethanol damage my vehicle or affect its performance?
Most metal components in fuel systems will corrode or rust in the presence of water. Ethanol increases petrol's ability to absorb water without separating and Ethanol blended petrol can therefore ‘hold’ more water and carry this through the engine. The greater the concentration of ethanol the greater the ability to ‘hold’ water.
Several studies have examined the effect of E10 on fuel tanks and fuel system components and have concluded that ethanol up to 10% does not increase corrosion in normal, everyday operation.
Ethanol blends may have a deteriorating effect on the rubber components of an engine. Other additives, such as benzene may also have an effect.
In older models, deposits in fuel tanks and fuel lines are occasionally loosened by E10, and the fuel filter may become plugged. This is remedied by a fuel filter change.
If very Ethanol rich fuel is used this may cause an engine to stall.
Laboratory tests have shown that blends of 20% pure Ethanol in petrol can damage some conventional automotive paint.
chippy ·
I have glanced over the previous posts to ask this, so please forgive me if it has been answered. Do I need to use a lead additive in a 66 beetle? I dont even know if it is still available. The last time I owned a leaded fueled car the price of fuel was 55c/l . Do I need to "retune" my engine to run better on unleaded( be it ULP PULP or E10) and if so what needs to be done?
Cheers Todd 😀
Lettuce ·
You should be able to use straight unleaded fine, but adding a lubricant isn't a bad idea. You shouldn't need to re-tune.
Uber Kafer ·
with regards to the comments about ethanol on older cars, I recall reading something somewhere (would have been on the internet so it must be true) that ethanol has different fluid properties to normal petrol and tends to flow though weak points that petrol wont flow through (leak).
So, and apart from the corrosion problems caused by the water holding properties outlined above:
Ethanol doesnt so much cause failures in older fuel systems, it 'finds weak points'....
Theres a difference between chemically destroying components, or leaking past them.
Note: I'm not bothered if this is debunked, but its the best I can recall.
Paulc1964au ·
Let me get this straight I can use Premium unleaded in my 1969 VW (it has a 1600 twin port).
I was going to add a Fuelstar inline catalyst but after reading this thread premium unleaded will be just fine???
Lucky Phil ·
bajachris88 wrote:
humpty wrote:Higher Octane = Cooler running.... And I have never run additives either...
no no!
As octane gets greater, the Hotter in fact it actually runs.
the burn is slower, and more 'heat' energy is released. if the octane is high enough, the burning fuel would actually still be in the burning process whilst passing through the exhaust valve and manifold, resulting in burnt valves and a dramatic increase in engine bay temperature.
{NOTE: this is not a back fire as the 'ignition' for this burning mixture took place in the combustion chamber, however is finishing up in the exhaust manifold)
(practically the complete opposite of detonation/pinging from 'too low' octane which obviously you don't want from too low octane otherwise it ain't half obvious that internal pressures are going to go off the charts).
I speak from a VERY nasty experience after running a combo of 98 octane and 4 point nulon racing octane booster. (yes stupid but it was an experience to get the most hp by advancing the ignition as much as possible with the higher octane to increase the ability to advance the timing without any pinging). mind you that was ONE VERY nasty cruise. overheating is never fun.
People have established that unleaded fuel is vw friendly. if it pings at 91 octane, check that timing is not too advanced and properly timed. if it is, then go 95 octane. but there is no need to jump to 98 if 95 isn't pinging. It will run hotter with no hp benefits, unless you advance the ignition timing by feel to keep the 'mixture burn' in that combustion chamber.
and you would probably squeeze a couple more hp by advancing so as the higher octane contains the greater energy. I doubt 98 would cause any damage though, but let it be out there that it will definitely not run cooler with a higher octane.
It may or may not pose any damaging threats, but if 95 works, why risk unless certain?
baghall ·
I've always run additive thinking that I needed to, but it seems I may not need to. My only concern is that I have no idea when the heads on the engine were made, due to the amount of modification and time that VWs can have on them.
helbus ·
Been running standard 91 unleaded in our stock 1971 Beetle for 5 years. No additives, and it has been fine, goes quite well.
Paulc1964au ·
Problem is hard to find 91 that doesn't have ethanol these days so i usually use 95 and use an additive
humpty ·
It amazes me that this thread keep coming back.... If you have an engine that was either built or rebuilt since 1970, you will have no problem running unleaded fuel.... All VW engines should be running hardened seats and silicone bronze valve guides...
Run the best fuel you can afford.... I use only 98 in my cars (the octane argument aside).... And even then only Caltex.... BP is shit IMHO..... I have never had any problems since I made the change way back in 93...
68AutoBug ·
YES
This thread keeps popping up....
ALL Petrol sold in Service Stations across Australia is UNLEADED..
The New Problem is ETHANOL.....
I lose about 40% of power using 91 with ethanol...
You can still find NON Ethanol 91 petrol at older service stations
ALL New Servos in NSW Only have 91 BIO with Ethanol...
NON Ethanol 91 was supposed to be phased out this year in NSW... but due to the floods... and crop failures..
the date has been put back another year...
I use 98 plus valve saver... SHELL usually...
LEE
so... You do Have to Use Unleaded Petrol in Your Beetle...
ETHANOL --- its up to You....
LEE
humpty ·
Can't get ethanol-unleaded or bio-ethanol blends here at all.... This is the wild west after all!!!!!.... Though I am looking forward to E85 arriving.... I hear it works wonders with turbo charged engines!!! 👍👍👍
barls ·
humpty wrote:It amazes me that this thread keep coming back.... If you have an engine that was either built or rebuilt since 1970, you will have no problem running unleaded fuel.... All VW engines should be running hardened seats and silicone bronze valve guides...
Run the best fuel you can afford.... I use only 98 in my cars (the octane argument aside).... And even then only Caltex.... BP is shit IMHO..... I have never had any problems since I made the change way back in 93...
strange cause i only use bp or shell in the bug dont like caltex at all.
Paulc1964au ·
humpty wrote:It amazes me that this thread keep coming back.... If you have an engine that was either built or rebuilt since 1970, you will have no problem running unleaded fuel.... All VW engines should be running hardened seats and silicone bronze valve guides...
Run the best fuel you can afford.... I use only 98 in my cars (the octane argument aside).... And even then only Caltex.... BP is shit IMHO..... I have never had any problems since I made the change way back in 93...
So since i have a 1600 TP in my 69 (yes not the original motor) I do not need to use an additive?
Bizarre ·
no
70AutoStik ·
Can the moderators add this to the top of the front page of this site - you do not need to use an additive or lead in any stock VW!
Valve seat recession was an issue with cast iron heads - no exported or otherwise non-German VW ever used cast iron seats. Chrome stemmed exhaust valves should exist in any engine still alive, and any dodgy jobs will need a rebuild anyway - cast iron seats fall out.
Stock engines built for Australia will work on the fuel they were designed for, which is now standard unleaded. If, you have raised compression, witnessed pinging or other signs of detonation, you should consider higher octane fuels. If your engine is overheating, find the problem and fix it - it is unlikely to be the fuel.
Lead should only be required for strip engines running titanium or some lightweight stainless valves, or aircraft, and is not legal in most of Australia (some outback areas excepted, mostly in WA and NT.)
Calorific value and burn rate are not octane-specific, but are designed in to a degree by manufacturers. Economic factors tend to make these end up fairly consistent, outside of the ethanol factor.
Any stock engine should run just OK with ethanol blends as they tend to be set uo rich, but they should be avoided in vehicles which are not regularly used due to the abovementioned hydrophilic properties.
If your rubber fuel hose is 40 years old, replace it! Rust is a problem in some parts of Australia and not in others. If you are doing a resto, I'd have a look at PPC or similar treatments. Stainless line is a good investment, too.
No..
fuel with lead has been banned for years now
so, You cannot buy it from any service stations...
VW engines do not need an additive in the fuel to lubricate the valve stems etc...
BUT.... Many people who own VWs DO use Valvesaver or A similar additive to the fuel... it cannot hurt the engine and may help to lubricate the valve stems...
I have only just started to Use Valve saver in My fuel....
I ONLY Use fuel without Ethanol in My beetle as I lose about 40% of My engine Power by using it....
There are still some small independent BP stations selling Unleaded 91 without Ethanol....
with larger fuel stations I use 98 Unleaded.... which is higher octane and has cleaning additives in it...
I also have used 95 unleaded also..
because of crop failures... Unleaded fuel without Ethanol will be produced for another year.....
LEE
h ·
OMG i needed my sunnies on looking at the above
why are people so unkind..?
still been running BP 98 with flash lube for over umpteen years now and no probs here
bring back leaded fuel and this will all go away..
leaded paint on the weatherboards still goes on and on and on and when we were kids its tasted good too for an arvo snack as we couldn't afford food 🤪😂
We only have Opal and BP 95 premium here. The premium is $2.05 L at the mo and Opal (which is heavily subsidised by the gov) is about $1.90L. I only ran the premium but at nearly $70 a tank I thought I would try the Opal. After 6 tanks and no valve saver it is still running sweet if anything it seems a bit smoother