*** Tight Arse Turbo...***RETIRED***

I am thinking seriously of a draw through turbo for a 1640 I am in the process of putting together. I would appreciate any pics or info that might help me make an informed oppinion.
I have spent a lot of time searching the samba and shoptalk forums and reading anything i can get my hands on, so I don't think i'm not jumping in with my eyes closed.
Please, no posts on "forget the turbo and go a 1914" or go a rotary or subi motor, not gonna happen.
I have access to good machining and fabrication facilities and this is something i've always wanted to do.
I'd rather do it the right way than the wrong way and I know for a fact after visiting some other forums, some of you guys are pretty switched on to turbo's.
I pulled the engine out of my car on Monday but it's not going to be a short term project. If there's an interest i'll post some pics as I go. If it all turns to shit I'll just whack some carbs on it.

Cheers & let the games begin

[ Edited on 4-5-2006 by Stanley ]

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You need to think about building a bulletproof bottom end, loweing your compression ratio, where your going to mount your carb (if your goin draw through then its going to be a DHLA or DCOE), what size turbo you'll need and do you really want to do all that fabrication and suffer lag of a draw through setup?

You can look at some of the pics of my ex-Shimo blow through setup at:-

http://www.matara.net/gallery/Turbo



Cheers

Steve

i would say go the blow thru route, alot of people will tell you that you can't blow thru a carby but with a webber you can run up to 13psi without mods and with a dell you can run more. if you want to go fancy, fill your float bulb thing with like expanda foam to stop it crushing and build a sealed box around the carby, like a big phlem that covers the whole carby with a seated fuel line etc and then just blow the pressure into the box. this stops the carby leaking out the bottom cause of the pressure is equal inside and out of the carby and also the carby works properly due to the fact that they read pressure difference and they can work better when setup like this. hope this helps. if your running twin carbies i would like to see the set up cause im looking at doing the same thing but with a supercharger on a 1916.
good luck 🙂

Thanks guys.

I hear what your saying and have put some thought into that very question. I've read the pro's and cons on both, but I think for me and the budget, draw through is the easiest way. i know lag is an issue but i'm not after a huge power increase and I can forget about elec fuel pumps and regulators and sealing carbs. Only have to either find a turbo with carbon seals or get one resealed.

however this is not set in stone.

Matara, i have looked at your photo's and that is a neat set up and well hidden. You wouldn't know what was lurking at first glance.

ahhh...bajaben....nothing like the sound of a supercharger, id be interested in what you had in mind.


just another pic of another engine, but hopefully the start of something

Andrew,
sounds like an interesting project.
The latest Hot VWs mag has the details about modifying a holley for turbo use, but is a little bulky to keep under the decklid.
The SU carb and the Japanese copies from Hitachi I think, are very compact, cheap, and forgiving regarding air flow and fuel delivery, so you might like to google that option for turbo or draw thru blower use.
Except that I am unsure about availability for your application, a centifugal blower and draw thru SU style carb would make for a neat set up and be easyer to convert back to N/A should you have a prob or decide to change something. IE same exhaust, just the intake system and pulleys would be different.
Lots to think about, and just a pulley change to get the boost you want for any given engine size.

There is no necessity to bother boxing up carbs for blow-thru setups. That kind of setup is very old school and that box arrangement went out with the ark.
Some simple air pressure seals work perfectly and are cheap and easy to set up for. I wont bother with an explaination on them here.

It sounds very much like you want a real budget setup given you dont want to outlay for a second hand EFI fuel pump and a boost pressure sensed fuel pressure regulator. A grand total of about 200 dollars at most in order to successfully blow thru.

Draw thru setup will work ok but the financial corners you are proposing to cut are barely a bend in the actual setup road!

I have run both pull thru and blow thru setups on exactly the same engine and there is little comparison.
The difference is worth so much more than a few lousy couple of hundred dollars you will spend on your pressure pump and regulator.

I would suggest you hunt around and source a pair of single throat Solex blow thru turbo carbs or the equivlent Weber variant. These carbs come with throttle shaft seals to begin with and heavy duty floats to guard agains float collapse under higher boost pressures.

This way, you can avoid all the common hassles of long manifolds under the carb and attendant fuel condensation that will drive you mad after a couple of cold winter nights drives.
It also gives you the option of adding an intercooler to your setup.

Its a no brainer really when comparing suck and blow but sourcing the turbo carbs is getting a little harder now as they are pretty old school now.
However, there are quite a few of the older Daihatsu Charade Turbo engines laying around that used a 2 bbl carb with boost enrichment circuits.

I have pulled thru bothe center float (HIF) and side float 45mm SU's and blown thru HIF SU's and the Solex turbo carb.

The SU was far superior to the Solex in all respects and there are a couple of stock needles and springs that will do the job nicely.
I spent hours hand shaping different needles but found it very hard to improve on the standard turbo needles. From memory, they are marked BCA and a BAD. One was a fair bit more aggressive in its fuel delivery and suited a much hairier setup.

On a beetle engine, SU's will not be much use in a blow thru arrangement as the SU's require a fairly large plenum in front of them to work at all in blow thru arrangement.

The Webers and Solexes are almost identical to look at compared to something like a 36Hp PCI carb. They have the same stud mounting setup but I have not compared them to see if they are a bolt up.

Blowing thru a pair of carbs will improve throttle response right out of sight not to mention the almost halved boost lag time and will do away entirely with the drama of fuel condensation issue. believe me, its a pain in the arse and the effort of the blow thru conversion alone was worth it in terms of driveability alone..

The cost of an old EFI pump and a new FPR is negligable compared to the gain in day to day friendliness of a carbed turbo engine.
Pull thru arrangements are only really any good when they are setup on a non-crossflow engine such as a Ford or Holden six where the inlet tract length is very short. Of course they will work in any application if you can be bothered with the side effects of long inlet runners (fuel condensation, soggy throttle response, greatly increased boost lag and so-on) but to eschew a blowthru setup based purely on the price of a high pressure pump and fuel pressure regulator is foolish.
You will save more than that in the snails carbon seal conversion alone!

For a mild setup, consider a Turbo off a Pulsar Turbo ET (To2) or something like a RHB5 IHI and the like offen some older 1600 (odd) CC 80's Jap turbo iron. These turbos will boost you ride happily to about 12 to 14 psi (intercooled or water injected) all day, which will lift you Kraut's performance nicely
Expect to pay around between 80 and 120 bucks for a To2. I have never paid more than this for the 5 of them I have here!

Happy turboing dude. You will enjoy the challenge of it and the benifits and fun factor outweigh the cost factor by a long shot!

L8tr
E

[ Edited on 13/4/06 by tassupervee ]

Have a look at AJ Sims turbo kit over at http://lowbugget.com/1600t.html.

This is as basic as you can get, draw through and onto a stock 1600cc.

Could be good fun!

Cheers

Steve

Thanks for the imput guys

after tsv's input i will do some more homework and give the blow through some more thought. Matara's set up looks so neat so there's another reason.

Got the engine torn down y'day so will clean it up over the weekend and drill and tap it for the full flow oil system then drop it over to CE for some case savers. Will pick up my heads while i'm there.

As the 1500 had a standard shroud and cooler i'll need to get a bracket for the oil cooler to fit the dog house. Kicking my self now, Up till 2 weeks ago I was going to sell it, so I started to get rid of bits and pieces. Got rid of a complete dog house cooler set up and a set of Kads and dual port tinware. If anyone has any thing lying around let me know.

thanks again...post any pics which might help

I read the following article a while ago in VW trends.

I hope this helps

http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/tech/0211vwt_turbo/
http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/tech/0211vwt_turbo02/

John

I'd offer you the kaddies back Andrew but I have something similair in mind as per someone else in this thread. 🙂

Just a quick update in case you all thought I was a "gunna"

heads are finished and have been CC'd...thanks Craig
I took the case into CE for some machine work...case savers and an aliign bore and some other minor stuff..thanks again Craig
Was glad to find it was a duel relief case. Just need to drill and tap for full flow oil.

This will go with the eight dowelled crank, 12lb flywheel, reground cam I allready have in stock.
Also thanks to my wife for buying me the Turbomania book for my birthday...i'm sure she thinks this is just a fad......😂

Just doing some homework in the meantime on the turbo set up. Thanks for the advice and I did think long and hard but have settled on a draw through. This will not be a daily driver so I will push the envelope a bit, however it won't be hand grenade waiting to go off. All the running gear is stock. Just something to have some fun with.

If it looks half as good as this i'll be happy.

oh snap!

nice man

nick

just a quick update. The machining is done and will be picked up next week.

In the interim I managed to score this.

Has there been any progress on this yet ?

yep slowly

Got the last of the bits to get the short motor together.
Spent yesterday cleaning, cleaning and more cleaning. Both cases have been scrubbed and yesterday i gave them a final degrease and hit them with a water blaster to clean out all the oil galleries after drilling and tapping for full flow. Then into the kero bath for more cleaning

spent today assembling the (8 dowelled) crank, fitting the bearings and trial fitting the crank and cam. Lucky I did as there was a dodgy tooth on the crank gear that wouldn't allow 360deg rotation. Cleaned up the gear and put the other case half on and it spins nice.

Next weekend i'll pull the crank back out and fit the rods and get ready to seal it up....maybe......Rome wasn't built in a day.

What cam and lifters Andrew?

I think Craig said the cam was equivalent to a Scat C25 which should be .385in Lift X 275 Degrees Duration. May not be the best cam for what i'm doing but I got this cam before I decided to add a turbo. Lifters are stock.

I'm also thinking about a removable rear apron...have to put some thought into that.

Was talking to the guys here at work, and they said the Turbo Sigma came
with a T04 and external wastegate, that also used a Hitachi draw thru setup.
Perhaps a trip to the wreckers to find those parts?
Exhaust housing is .48 apparently...good start.
That will work well that cam...!

Cheers Dave...Thanks

Well this weekend was 3 steps forward and two steps back.
My son found what was described as a rebuilt (read washed) airesearch m10 turbo from a nissan exa off guy at his work. Brought it home, and I don't no a lot about turbo's but, i'm pretty sure the 2 big cracks in the exhaust housing from the waste gate aren't supposed to be there.

Anyway, put the rods on the crank and checked all the clearances, all good, and thought maybe I should replace the rod nuts. Nah she'll be right I thought. Not being the most patient of people and wanting to get it togther in a hurry. (this motor has taken 5 years to get this far). Spent the rest of the day washing everything up ready to mate the cases.

I had a set of lifters which, back when I pulled the engine down thought were great until I noticed the dish in the face you could drive a truck thru. Will I or won't I. Luckily A good nights sleep let sanity prevail and tomorrow i'm off to buy some new lifters and some new rod nuts.

Maybe next weekend

Picked up some new lifters on Friday so I got the case halves together over the week end. All went together nicely.
Thought it was going to end in tears when I went to put the oil pump in. I've fitted a 26mm oil pump with external outlet. These made the studs too short.
There was no way the pump was going to come back out with out allowing the case to seperate a bit, so luckily I was able to get two of them by locking nuts and the other two with some vice grips. Luckily I had some cases lying around and was able to rob some 50mm studs and screw them in.

Just need to get some new pushrod tubes and I can start putting the pistons and barrels on.

BTW does anyone know the best way to clean carbon deposits from piston ring grooves. I probably should have used new pistons to go with the new barrels but the old pistons measured up and look pretty good.

Use an old broken piston ring to scrape out the old carbon.
But careful, they can be sharp....unless you have a propper tool, that will work fine.

If your friendly with a workshop that has a tub of carbolene (spelling??) drop them in that for a day or two! Drop everthing except the case in! I think you can buy 20l drums of it but dont know the $$. Would be real handy if you plan on doing more rebuilds ion the future.

Dont get it on your hands!

Stanley wrote:just a quick update. The machining is done and will be picked up next week.

In the interim I managed to score this.

M8, that SU carb.

The only issue you need to attend to using that clobber is that the float bowl needs to be facing forward.
This is to account for varying fuel levels and alteration in fuel mixtures on throttle and braking.

With the chamber forward, the effective fuel level to the discharge nozzle raises on power and up hills.
reverse is tru under braking.

You dont really want the fuel float level to drop under power or up hills if the chamber is facing rearwards in your installation.

You will find that with a bit of imagination, you can reverse the orientation of the chamber to suit your application as well as vary its angle relative to the carb body.

Youll see how it goes when you remove the chamber from the carb body. Easy as!

If you can find an HIF type 45mm SU, you dont have a drama being a centerfloat design. They are off things like older carbed Volvos and also Range Rovers.

L8tr
E

thanks guys....We used to have stuff called carbosolve..same as carbolene i'm thinking. It was good stuff...trouble is I have neither or an old piston ring...might have to go to a local engine builder.

Thanks TSV...I think I can comprehend what your saying...however there's a few guys on shoptalk forums and nobody has mentioned any issues like that...not to say it wouldn't happen, but i'll keep it in mind when I strip it.

Also can you get power pulleys the same diameter as std. Want to ditch the pulley and run somthing thats looks the stuff i'm quite partial to these although polished ally not hot pink!!!!



[ Edited on 26-7-2006 by Stanley ]

Well I've missed a couple of steps.

Barrels and pistons were on....yesterday....but today barrels came back off to fit .090 barrels spacers. This will put my CR at around 6.9:1 which i'm led to believe will be good for a turbo and allow me to screw the boost up if the need arises. Chances are it will arise.
I fitted the barrel spaces and applied some blue max silicone on the sealing surfaces.
The other reason I pulled the barrels was to lap them into the heads. When I had the heads done the chamber volume was different between the 2 heads. One was 48cc and the other was 51cc.
I had the head flycut to obtain the same chamber volume so I could use the same size barrel spacer.
Today I put the heads on making sure I remembered to put the air deflector tin on first.
Next weekend I'll do the rocker geometry. with the .090 barrel spacers I may need to make new pushrods. During the week i'll endevour to make an adjustable pushrod.

Thanks so far should go to Craig from Crankshaft Engineering and Dave Butler for answering all my questions.

Nothing wrong with a bit of bling either. The crank pulley also doubles as a sausage slicer.

love the chick poster in the background 😉

There's a couple...all volksie related of course.

should post some more......saw a man about a turbo today...going to build it to suit my application

Well the last piece of the jigsaw turned up today. Haven't posted any updates of late because up til now it was just a rebuilt VW engine.
I was originally getting a turbo of a john deere tractor that was supposed to be perfect for my application but it was to far gone.

Instead I've got a fully overhauled T02 (i think. has water cooling) off a nissan exa which has also had a carbon seal fitted for the draw thru setup. Boost will start at around 2500rpm and is set currently at 7.5psi.
The beauty of this turbo I guess is that it has an internal waste gate where as the other one would have required an external wastegate. so i'll save a few bucks.

All i need to do is orientate the housings and make the manifolds. i'll post some more pics once I start the manifolds.

[ Edited on 6-10-2006 by Stanley ]

[ Edited on 6-10-2006 by Stanley ]

K, If its a To2, its not watercooled and perfect for your clobber, if its a T2 then its watercooled (same guts as To2 tho). Probably not the best thing to run it without water as the housings are so much larger due to water galleries and retain a lot more heat on shutdown.
Having said that, plenty of Pulsar boys run them without water and get away with it.
Perfect choice M8.
The most i have ever paid for one of these is 100 bucks. ( I have 6 of them, T2's and To2's. Im a small turbo slut!)

You can buy rebuild kit for them anywhere and rebuild them yourself. Its a no brainer so long as you orient the comp wheel and nut the same as it came off to maintain balance.

Its the same turbo Im using on my 1600TP playtoy engine.

You can happily bost up that turbo to about 1 bar at the revs you will be using but the little T2 will be getting pretty breathless about then and the air temp will be pretty hot as well. Highflowing it will help but if you want more than a bar of boost then its time for a good sized GT17, a T25, folowed by a T25G and then a T28 respectively.
The T28 will have enough clout to give you up to 25 PSI boost all day long on your engine but as a pullthru arrangement, i expect youd have grenaded a couple of engines before you got it reliable LMAO. (I know I know, Im getting ahead of myself here!)
However, ask Ian Swinkels and a legion of other blower nuts, Boosting up engines is an addiction, a sickness that cannot be controlled and nothing you can do will control the urge to tweak it up bit by bit untill you grenade it. By the fuck youll laugh your head off grenading it tho.

Be prepared for impending turbo size changes, intercoolers and programmeable EFI........... Its coming M8........... You have just joined the club.
YOU have been placed on alert! Bwaaaahahahahahaha U fool!

L8tr
E

^^what he said 😀
once u start u just wanna keep getting bigger and better LOL
u cant beat a garrett tho
my first was a toyota CT12 and i was having real trouble getting a rebuild kit when the bearings went in it

-Joel

Stanley
Your a worry. Dose the better half know whats going on in the shed, or do you tell her your just going out there to sharpen the mower blades?
Rob...

It's all good Rob. Just can't wait till the ej22 conversion to Bens kombi is finished. Then I'll get my shed back to myself and can concentrate back onto my engine.

Will get the flange adaptors made this week and get some tube for the intake manifold and carb adaptor. What should I use aluminium or some stainless?.

I think I will need to put the engine in to work on the final position but the attached position should be fairly close to where I would like it.
Because of the waste gate actuator I can't rotate the housings although I can totate the centre housing to get the oil drain in the right place.

[ Edited on 8-10-2006 by Stanley ]

Because of the waste gate actuator I can't rotate the housings although I can totate the centre housing to get the oil drain in the right place.

Neh, of course you can.

The wastegate actuator is simply bolted to the back of the compressor housing.
Just piss it off while you are setting up your turbo orientation. Once done, simply redrill the holes in the housing and tap them for M6 x 1.25

All too easy.

L8tr
E

Got some ally tube today to make the adaptor between the SU and the turbo inlet. Is there a rule of thumb for length. or can I just make it as short as i like for aesthetic reasons.

Just for interests sake the ron lummus race setups have the turbo at the back like yours and the holley mounted in an airbox at the side windows, and connected to the turbo by a loooong pipe, apparently theres some theory in the cooling effect on the ambient air in the long intake with the fuel??? Everyone else seems to use short setups though.

Was the conversion to carbon seal expensive?

Make it nice and short M8 and try, if you can to angle the carb slighty down towards the turbo inlet or fuel condensation and subsequent puddling in that manifold will shit you off on cold nights.
I made this mistake once.
L8tr
E

shiftyvw wrote:Was the conversion to carbon seal expensive?

Not sure shifty....I bought the turbo completely rebuilt and had it fitted as part of the deal. I hear people say thay can get turbo's for $100. The only one I saw for that price was gummed up with oil and was cracked around the wastegate. Apparently the cracking is fairly common though. Although these went right thru.
I looked on ebay and did the rounds of the wreckers and I'm pretty happy with the deal I got even though it cost me substantially more than $100. Trouble free turbo and looks like new.

tassupervee wrote:K, If its a To2, its not watercooled and perfect for your clobber, if its a T2 then its watercooled (same guts as To2 tho). Probably not the best thing to run it without water as the housings are so much larger due to water galleries and retain a lot more heat on shutdown.
Having said that, plenty of Pulsar boys run them without water and get away with it.
Perfect choice M8.
The most i have ever paid for one of these is 100 bucks. ( I have 6 of them, T2's and To2's. Im a small turbo slut!)

You can buy rebuild kit for them anywhere and rebuild them yourself. Its a no brainer so long as you orient the comp wheel and nut the same as it came off to maintain balance.

Its the same turbo Im using on my 1600TP playtoy engine.



Be prepared for impending turbo size changes, intercoolers and programmeable EFI........... Its coming M8........... You have just joined the club.
YOU have been placed on alert! Bwaaaahahahahahaha U fool!

L8tr
E

TSV, was reading iswinkles page and he was running an electric water pump through his water cooled turbo via a cooler. Might even look into that myself.

BTW wasn't having a shot at you in my last post. I have seen $100 turbo's however I really wanted something trouble free I could bolt on set and forget. I would love to get hold of an old one and pull it apart. Might save that for the next one when I upgrade. The monster is awakening already. Dave Butler is a bad influence....:thumb

Stanley wrote:BTW wasn't having a shot at you in my last post. I have seen $100 turbo's however I really .............................. Might save that for the next one when I upgrade. The monster is awakening already. Dave Butler is a bad influence....:thumb

Not a problem M8, never took it that way at all.
Since im heavily involved with N12 pulsar Turbos, I have plenty of opportunities to fint small Garrett turbos.
Thats why I have collected quite a few of them. the worst one I got for 100 bucks is still quite useable.

Hehehehehehehehe "Dangerous Dave" eh? Oh yes I can see how he may have some influence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I told you ud be planning upogrades before you even get it running LMAO
Its a disease.
L8tr
E

Stanley wrote:TSV, was reading iswinkles page and he was running an electric water pump through his water cooled turbo via a cooler. Might even look into that myself.

Thinking out loud here...

what might be the negatives with running oil through the water housing on the turbo???

Would it provide enough cooling? Would surely be better than running the housing just open to the air.

...shuts up and sits down again

Cheers
Jeremy

Jeza wrote:Thinking out loud here...
what might be the negatives with running oil through the water housing on the turbo???

Actually, i think thats a fine bit of lateral thinking and in my view I see no trouble at all!
As for rates of heat transfer...........dunno but i still see lots of merit in that idea for an air cooled engine.
Good stuff.

L8tr
E

Jeza wrote:

Stanley wrote:TSV, was reading iswinkles page and he was running an electric water pump through his water cooled turbo via a cooler. Might even look into that myself.

Thinking out loud here...

what might be the negatives with running oil through the water housing on the turbo???

Would it provide enough cooling? Would surely be better than running the housing just open to the air.

...shuts up and sits down again

Cheers
Jeremy

Just to clarify....he wasn't running oil he was running water from a tank using a small electric pump then running it through the turbo then through a cooler tucked up inside his guard. I think he had a 20deg reduction in temp as a result. Check his website.

Cheers.

he was using a pwr water to air barrell cooler kit...very effective but also pricey.

well over the $1000 mark i believe.

With only a modicum of imagination a very simple and importantly, cheap cooler arrangement can be made utillising the thermosyphon principle.
After all, japanese small motocross bikes were cooled like this for many years.

I still like the oil circulation idea!

L8tr
E

Got all the flanges for the turbo back today from being profile cut.

Get the aluminium adaptor I made from the turbo to the SU back next week. Just need to get it welded and then the face machined to make sure its still flat after welding.

Also managed to get the new 3/8 stainless fuel line installed. I've taken the easy way out and run it through the car next to the tunnel and bent it so it stays snug next to the tunnel.
Just need to get the pressure end flared so I can run AN fittings. Now all I need to do is go shopping at work for some aluminium AN fittings.

With any luck I should be able to install the engine next weekend (depending on kombi progress) and then I can start fabbing the muffler tubes to and from the turbo.

Keep up the good work Stanley, I too have thought about running oil through the water galleries on my turbo but I have decieded to make a little water system soley for the turbo that goes through a 2001 CR125 right side radiator that will be mounted under tha passenger guard with my muffler. The reason I have used the filler side is that I have mounted the tap on the under neath so it is easy to drain. A shower waterpump out of a caravan will pump the circuit.
Also with the flanges run steel, not stainless steel. It is soft ans expands and contracts too much and will not seal properly. Adam Debaisi has these precut and there about $8 each. (08) 8262 7533. Should have mine back on the weekend from the injection being fit.
T54

I was hoping to get the crank end float done this weekend so I could put the engine in but the gland nut and washer hasn't arrived yet.
Thought i'd take the opportunity to install a new 3/8 od stainless fuel tube and electric fuel pump. I've run it next to the tunnel and with a few well placed bends has come out nice and snug.
A few rubber grommets to seal it all up and you don't even know it's there.
Will use the old pipe as the return. I have drilled and tapped the large inhex bung in the top corner of the tank to accept the return flow from the press reg.
I have done a cut and shut on the old tank fittingto accept aluminium AN threaded fittings. Everything on the engine presssure end will be threaded AN fittings.
Here's afew pics. First time i've [ulled up all the carpet. Previos owner was pretty liberal with the red oxide. Looks worse than it is.

tassupervee wrote:

Jeza wrote:Thinking out loud here...
what might be the negatives with running oil through the water housing on the turbo???

Actually, i think thats a fine bit of lateral thinking and in my view I see no trouble at all!
As for rates of heat transfer...........dunno but i still see lots of merit in that idea for an air cooled engine.
Good stuff.

L8tr
E

Thanx Tass

One day I'll stop thinking about this and actually give it a go myself. I've got pretty much everything I need, mexi-beetle efi stuff and a Haltech ECU. Maybe I'll give it a go once I've got the Type 4 fitted to my car.

Good work Stanley, keep up the updates.

Cheers
Jeremy

Well finally got a spare minute to do some work on the TAT turbo. I'm supposed to be on holidays but some work stuff still going on.

Positive side is I bought a TIG welder y'day so I can now fabricate all my own intake and exhaust hence the reason for the pics.

Had to orientate the turbo inlet and exhaust flange so i'll have to make a new bracket for the waste gate actuator.

But it's now hanging where it will go and fits under the decklid with the stand offs so long as I can the pipes bent ok.

mmmm...looks like a bunch of stuff got lost in the crash.

This is the final resting place for the turbo. The intake manifold is done just have ti fire up the tig and weld it together.

Everything fits under the decklid with hoodjax. Although I know there will be an ambient temp increase I hope the heat generated from the turbo doesn't affect the genny.
Hopefully I can get a blanket for the turbo. As soon as the shops reopen i'll start on the exhaust.

Man, it is coming along.....it is really going to happen!!
I cant wait to see how it goes!

hey Stanley
those silicon hoses on ur inlet manifolds
they'd be about 42mm ID?
im doing the same thing atm and cant get a set anywhere
anychance u could point me in the right direction?
everyone i try says thats not a common size yadda yadda ya

re the turbo and genny my old set up was pretty much in the same spot but it was a ablow thro so the turbo was directly above the genny and also alot closer
i actually used the gen strap as a support for the turbo
but with hoodjax had no temp issues but it was only running for about 500kms

thanks
Joel

Spot on Joel....The stainless tube has a 42mm od. The silicone tube I have is 40mm id.
Its a snug fit on the stainless but fits nicely on the std manifolds, vaso helps. I bought the silicone from Ipswich truck parts. They have every size you can imagine. Try any truck place.

And Dave...I can't wait to see if it goes...:o

Now the tig is up and running i've had a chance to make some progress.

pic 1 is the finished intake manifold. Had to notch it out to fit under the genny stand.

pic 2 is the turbo sitting on the manifold where it will sit. if you look carefully you will see the exhaust manifold poking up in front of the crank pulley. This will mate to the exhaust inlet this week end.

pic 3 is the exhaust before fitment

[ Edited on 8-1-2007 by Stanley ]

pic 4 is underneath looking up.

pic 5 is looking down from the rear.

I was trying to make it as short as possible and not to take up too much room.

I would also like to thank Dave Butler who supplied a header system that I was able to cut and shut to make the bends I needed and of course my wife who allowed me to get my TIG for christmas.

good stuff mate. :thumb

Looks the goods can't wait to see how she runs, as I have the same type of project on the go.

Didn't get as much completed as I had planned this weekend as i had to prepare an area ready for a water tank, bit I managed to finish thr exhaust fron the headers to the turbo.

Photo 1 is the finished manifold made from 1 1/2 tube. Probably not the best flowing but it wiil do to prove the system.

Photo 2 is the complete exhaust connected to a standard set of Thunderbird extractors. Next time and now I have the TIG, I'll make a custom set of headers to keeep the pipe length shorter.

These photo's show it all fitted up. The dump pipe out of the turbo is really only for show although I'll be tempted to give it ago. I''ll make another one out of 1 5/8 tube that will bend down and come out the drivers side exhaust cutout. At this stage I don't plan on running a muffler although I'll make a pipe that will allow one to be fitted at a later date. Remember this isn;t a daily driver although I will need to get it to the track some how.

Nice work - loving the progress!

Just one question, do you envisage any problems adjusting the timing (using a light) since the exhaust runs up the centre line of the crank pulley - any ideas how to get around this?

cheers
Alan

Good point Alan. It should be ok I can see the marks ok....maybe a bit of paralex error to avoid...will soon see.

Any news Stanley.....

Kinda, I've since pulled everything off as it was only there for fabrication purposes. Since the last pics i've pulled everything off cleaned it up painted some bits and started to bolt everything back for good. Also had to make a new bracket for the waste gate actuator. I'll put up some more pics over the weekend. Pretty much just need to fit the pressure reg and fuel and oil hoses to get it going. Aluminium AN hose fittings aren't cheap.

great work. I'm looking forward to hearing what it's like. Are you expecting it to be a bit laggy with the long pipework or is the turbo small enough to spool up quickly?

It's only a T2 of a nissan pulsar so i'm expecting it to spool up ok. Only one way to confirm that.

Stanley wrote:It's only a T2 of a nissan pulsar so i'm expecting it to spool up ok. Only one way to confirm that.

And we wait with bated breath....

Its looking great ! Any reason you didnt go with the under apron turbo header from CB performance ? it might help keep the heat out of the engine bay. Video of the startup for us all to watch is a must !

Wayne

1964_Notch wrote:Its looking great ! Any reason you didnt go with the under apron turbo header from CB performance ? it might help keep the heat out of the engine bay. Video of the startup for us all to watch is a must !

Wayne

CB performance = many $
I like to do things my own way....with the help of many people.

It's not a daily driver so heat wasn't a huge issue. Just the concept of a turboed volksy.

and finally its the Tight Arse Tuesday turbo. I'm in my very early 40's and have 4 kids so car funds are tight at times. I'd like to think that what I have done is within the reach of anyone. Mind you, you could do it cheaper but i've tried to balance $ but have spent the money where it counts (I hope).

I've had a lot of fun building this and as you can see it's the best part of 10 months. Must admit i'm feeling the pressure of turning the key (or pressing the button 'cause it doesn't have a key anymore) I've also had to deal with my wife who I might add has finally come around, to the fact that i've taken a perfectly good volksy and made it so it will be difficult if not impossible to use for family outings.

[ Edited on 25-1-2007 by Stanley ]

CB hideaway header is for a blow thro setup
stans is drawthro
i dont like how low the turbo mounts with them
i reckon thered be drainage issues cos its mounted pretty much level with the sump
but i havent seen one in the flesh so it may be different
theres enough of them getting around

-Joel

Keep it coming Stan... You've done us all proud.... And no pressure mate.... Just make sure you are happy with every little thing.... And have a video camera ready for the big day!

Not a lot to add this weekend although I did get a fair bit done.

Got it all re-assembled then realised I 'd put off a job just a little to long. I made the drain for the turbo only to realise it may foul on the wastegate actuator rod. Everything was closed so I couldn't get any fittings to check. Wired everthing up and mounted the oil filter bracket under the LH guard where the bumper mounts. Also made a brace from the turbo to the body so the exhaust isn't taking all the load. (G force when accelerating..:P)

All I need to run it is the hoses for the oil filter and a fuel line. I also need a press reg but I can probably start it without it but I don't think the Facet pump I have will cut the mustard. It's only goof for 5psi so I will upgrade to a holley blue. I'm concerned the facet might cause a lean situation where as the holley might be an overkill but I would rather have too much fuel, atleast I can get rid of excess fuel through a return line.

I'll need to build up some funds to complete it. Christmas and school holidays have drained the TAT account.

Anyhoo, enough waffling about nothing. Here's a pic of what the finished product should look like. The dump pipe will go eventually when I get around to making the rest of the exhaust but it looks cool and will do to start it.

Jobs to complete.
Locking the dizzy
needle mods on the SU
accelerator cable to the SU

[ Edited on 28-1-2007 by Stanley ]

top stuff....

worst fear relised. Turbo drain fouled on wastegate actuator. Had to reposition wastegate actuator by making a new baracket. Did that today and painted ready for fitment tomorrow. As long as I get the last fittings for the oil filter I'll try and start it next week end. The facet pump will do for running without the reg.

i'll post some pics for those interested tomorrow

Looking good, betcha can't wait to start it.

Well, reached a milestone today. Finally got everything hooked up. Have been waiting for some various fittings for the fuel system and the oil filter. They finally turned up y'day. Filled it with oil and bled the system best I could by filling all the lines and blowing some low press air through to get as much oil into the system as possible.

Then turned it over and within a several seconds the oil light went out...whoo hoo. no oil leaks so far. Mind you it could still all turn to shit.
Tomorrow I will check the float level in the SU tidy up some wiring and If all goes well i'll light the fire and see if it runs. I haven't got the throttle hooked up yet but I can still give it a start.

Once it is running and doesn't handgrenade i'll finish off a few niggly bits and start the running in process.

This is pretty much how it will look. Just need to get a an air cleaner, a breather can and i'll change the fuel pump when funds allow.

DOES IT GO YET??!!!!

dangerous wrote:DOES IT GO YET??!!!!

Wot Dave said......

Great thread:thumb

lots of us are waiting news!

kkk

Sorry guys...didn't think there were that many people interested.

Well....I wanted to fit a new GT40 coil so I went and bought one only to find when I got home one of the terminals was broken. Thought about fixing it but took it back to get it replaced.they didn't have any more in stock so went to automart and to superchaep stores and they don't stock gt40s any more only the gt40r (with resistor) you believe that?.
So back home and fitted the old one wired it up and found I had spark at the right time at the right plug...whoo hoo.
Fitted a choke cable to the carb. Cheated and mounted it so I can get at it through the deck lid. It's Qld right, who needs a choke anyway.
Up to the petrol station and got some fuel back home and put some in the tank and tested all the fuel lines...all good...whoo hoo.
Reset the float level and hooked the fuel line to the SU, got the fire extinguisher ready, turned on the electric fuel pump and.............................fuel pissed out a connection which goes into the fuel bowl. took it apart and found there is a ferrul and seal missing which seals the pipe for the jet. No go fast shops a gonna keep SU parts on a Sunday. So tomorrow there is a local guy who specialises in mini's so I hope he'll have the bits I need. Maybe tomorrow.

So I have spark in all the right places and more importantly when I turned it over this morning I pulled off the drain line from the turbo and had a nice flow of oil from it. so all in all another sleppless night but all is good so far.

Sweet,
so I can look forward to this being a daily driver to the Base soon?????

Only on test and tune night

Gettin' giddy ova here!!!! 😂

Stanley wrote:Sorry guys...didn't think there were that many people interested.

Yep, also watching quietly from the back of the room....

Good work, betcha can't wait to start it up and give it a run :thumb

Cheers
Jeremy

Well I fired it up this afternoon after getting the carb bits I needed.
All was going well until I realised although I had spar in all the right places it easn't at the right time. A small adjustment later I fired it up.

First go and away it went. Had the good turbo whine and ran ok. I need to tune the SU abit but other than that all was good.
No oil leaks (so far) and a good 40psi of oil pressure.

I've just loaded some footage onto youtube which I'll post a link to tomorrow when it clears.

Cheers

Top stuff.... Brilliant news.... Can't wait for the vid....

👍

You legend!!

sweet

Here's the link to the vid...as you will hear I was pretty happy. And if the truth be known this was the second start. Wasn't going to tape the first one incase the worst happened.

I realised after I started it that the vacuum line from the carb which would normally go to the dizzy was open. That along with the fact the mixture needs to be adjusted on the carb made it run rich and prevented it from idling.
I will endeavour to fix these things up this week.




[ Edited on 12-2-2007 by Stanley ]

Good work, glad to see it all went ok, now tune and drive. Dont forget to let us know about the way it drives.
T54

" WOO-HOO!"
Love it!

no wonder you "who Hoo'd"

Brilliant.....just brilliant

Great stuff:P

Now,
aren't you glad they screwed the water line to Base so you could head home early??????

Sweet!

Now for the first drive. Even more nerve racking in my opinion, but more exciting too.

Was that your doing Penguin.

Had it running for about 5mins this arvo (freaking out the neighbours) Having some difficulty getting it to idle. Could be getting to much fuel and flooding. Seems to run ok with the revs around 2000rpm. I think i'd better get a pressure reg.

melted all the paint on the rear apron....🙁 although the oil temp still hadn't gone over 80

need to do more research on tuning SU's

Excellent Stanley!.... Your an inspiration mate!.... Now we wait for the 'on the road' footage!

WOO HOO!

Great work!

Stanley wrote:Was that your doing Penguin.

Had it running for about 5mins this arvo (freaking out the neighbours) Having some difficulty getting it to idle. Could be getting to much fuel and flooding. Seems to run ok with the revs around 2000rpm. I think i'd better get a pressure reg.

melted all the paint on the rear apron....🙁 although the oil temp still hadn't gone over 80

need to do more research on tuning SU's

If it's melting the paint it could be too lean on the idle circuit, this could account for the high exhaust temps while the engine has no load on it. Also have you got an aircleaner on the SU, because I was told that SU's don't run properly without aircleaners.

Got it to idle now and doesn't seem to be getting as hot. I think it was running lean as Gracey suggested. Had to set the mixture way richer than the normal settings recommendrd for an SU. This is probably as a result of the turbo.
I will get an aircleaner and the throttle sorted out before I start it again.

Cheers

VWCOOL wrote:WOO HOO!

Great work!

notice I have your hood jax. Although I might need to extend them to fit the new aiir cleaner I ordered today.

Also started making a new exhaust to replace the dumpy coming straight out of the turbo. Will exit out the drivers side cutout, but still won't have a muffler.

Stanley wrote:Will exit out the drivers side cutout, but still won't have a muffler.

He, he, he, he.... Gotta love the lil'rebel in ya!.....

aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh....battery erupted in the back of the beetle while charging today and covered all the back in battery acid.

Took me ages to wipe it all down....time will tell as to the damge

fitted the exhaust from the turbo and started to make the accelerator cable.
Don't like the idea of joining so pulled the old one out and fitted a kombi cable. Cut the end off abd fed it through a bike cable. Then I went and stole some cable guides and stops of my wifes bile. Hopefully might be able to take it for a drive this week.

how much heat is given off around the exhaust pipes? just worried about what the fan belt can handle since its rather close thats all.

Whoo Hoo took it for a drive this afternoon. Just a quick blat down to the river. Had to resist the urge to give it the beans. Certainly feels stronger than the old SP 1500.

Still have a few minor things to do before I can take it for a good drive. Hoping to take it out to a test and tune on the 7th of March however, it's my wifes birthday so I'd better not push to hard.
Either way I don't want to rush anything. It's been almost 12 months so another few weeks won't hurt.

Just to prove it's outa the shed....:thumb

Great stuff!!!

Controling those urges to thrash it before the bugs are sorted will pay off in the long run. But it's so hard to resist. Better you than me.

Sweet,
let me know if you need a camera car.... I can always borrow a fast one 🙂 and no, its not a VW.

Took the TAT turbo for a drive, against my better judgement because I didn't have an air cleaner or fuel filter. I couldn't help my self and gave it a squirt in second. It goes surprisingly well and sounds good to boot. After about 20 mins driving at 60k's (with short slow bursts to a bit faster) oil temp was 90deg C. You can leave your hand on the rear apron for about 8sec before your brain tells you it's hot, so thats not to bad. Mind you I didn't have a decklid fitted so I got quite a lot of looks.

I might dump the oil tomorrow and cut open the oil filter to see if it's ok inside. I won't drive it again untill I get the air filter, a tacho (my good VDO shit itself) and a boost (rice) guage. I have no idea of revs or boost at the moment.

I'm hoping (based on oil and filter findings) to take it to a test and tune in March to see if I can break into the top 100 AVD fastest volkswagens....😀

I'd also like to take the opportunity to say thanks to all the guys who had some input into it either directly or through the forum. Especially Dangerous Dave Butler and Craig from Cranksahft Engineering. At the end of the day I've never built an engine before and had nothing to do with turbo's. Just knew I wanted one. So if a 40ish nuffy like me can anyone can do it.

and finally it's definately a volkswagen because it's developed the tiniest of oil leaks.

Cheers all and thanks......:thumb

Enuf with the 40ish, you are a legend!

koolkarmakombi wrote:Enuf with the 40ish, you are a legend!

To bloody right!

aw...shucks...ya makin me blush but thanks. I've done nothing that hasn't been done before. I take my hat off to the guys who are willing to try new stuff.

Alcohol/water injection next....:duh

Stanley wrote:Alcohol/water injection next....:duh

For You or the car :P must be abit on the loud side, afew people from the next suburb i know already know of this bug, nice work.

Ps: it doesnt count they were in your suburb at the time tho.

If it's too loud....you're too old.....😎

:thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb

Just a quick update.

Dumped the oil yesterday and found no chunky bits or signs of damage. Finally got my air cleaner fitted as well. Fitted my (please forgive me) monster tach and boost guage. My old VDO stopped working so I can atleast see what things are doing now.

Took it for a squirt and managed to get 4psi in second before I had to back off to negotiate a corner. I think it should go OK. Dave has done some calcs for me and it seems the Facet fuel pump currently fitted won't cut the mustard so I am going to fit a Carter 72GPH 4-5psi fuel pump this weekend and plumb a press reg in. I have the biggest needle and seat for and SU but can't get the full effect because I seem to be down on flow.

Also managed to get my gen light to go out. Amazing what happens when you connect the right wires up...🤪....lucky I didn't damage anything. So once I get the fuel issue sorted the only thing left is to fit a breather. I'm hoping to go for a T&T on the 21st if my mates tilt tray is available. If anyone else from Brissy way is interested bring your cars out. Have never been on the starting line in the drivers seat. Maybe I'll take the wifes lancer out this Wednesday and have a practice....😂

Stanley wrote:Maybe I'll take the wifes lancer out this Wednesday and have a practice....😂

Huh!.... I like your style!

Another update.

I’m off to a test and tune on Wednesday to see how the TAT turbo goes. After talking to Dave Butler and deciding I didn’t have enough fuel, I have doubled the flow and increased the pressure by fitting a new Carter fuel pump. I have also futted a Mallory press reg.
I fitted these up Friday on my RDO and fired it up Saturday morning. I had 4psi fuel press and hopefully heaps of flow. Everything was going great until I noticed the slight oil leak I had, had gotten substantially worse.

Only one thing to do, strip shit off the motor until I found it. I had a felling it was the seals between the oil cooler (dog house) and the bracket. A couple of hours later and some skinned knuckles I was able to get to the seals and replace them. While I had the turvo off I decided to drill and tap the housing for the boost pressure gauge and fix a fitting which was a bit loose but unable to be tightened.

Managed to get it all back together today and fix some things which were a little bit to TAT. Had some trouble getting it to fire (fuel issue) but it’s all good now.
Have a tine leak still but not sure if its residual oil or it’s still leaking a bit.

Well it’s all ready for Wednesday night. Hopefully it will stay together and do reasonably well. I’ve spent some time on the start line over the years but never behind the wheel. Will be quite a learning experience. Will let you know what happened either way

Cheers Stanley.

[ Edited on 11-3-2007 by Stanley ]

[ Edited on 11-3-2007 by Stanley ]

Tell us about your first trip to the drags!

[ Edited on 15-3-2007 by dangerous ]

Well since you asked Dave,
Took the TAT turbo out to Willowbank last night for it's maiden voyage.

First run 20.094 @70.53mph Bogged at the start and only had 4000rpm dialled in. Turbo didn't have a chance to kick in...forth gear is a waste of time

2nd run 27.32@72.79mph....next time don't turn the fuel pump off while your winding up the window....😁

3rd and best....17.96@78.86mph....rpm dialled in at 5200. Went thru the end in 3rd gear.

the other two runs were 18 secs at around 78mph

What did I learn for next time......More aggression at the start. The turbo needs more revs and I need to get over my fear of dropping the clutch. I lost so much time to the engine bogging at the start due to the lack of revs. Turbo's need to rev to spool up.
Also leave on the second yellow last light and not wait for the green.
Theres no need to push the clutch to the floor during gear changes.

All in all it was an absolute hoot. I got 5 runs in and apart from the starts and the first run flooged the crap out of it and it didn't break or leak. This to me was the best part. I've never built an engine before, had anything to do with turbo's or been in a legal drag race.

To all who haven't done it...get out and have ago. It's a blast.

Well done! It's soooo addictive.

I haven't taken my dub yet, but I've raced my Kawka a few times and I'm planning on going again next month.

TAT turbo is now fully insured with the turbo....thanks to Shannons.

Will be getting mod plated next Friday. Hopefully the guy wont make me rev it to hard...no muffler. It's really not that noisy until the turbo spools up.

I also just noticed it's a year today since I started this thread.....whoo hoo

Have decided to do a removeable rear apron.
Was ready for the countless spot welds I would have to drill out....but there wasn't any, just small runs around the edges. All up only took me 1/2 a day to remove the guards and the rear apron and it's in good enough shape to use again.....:thumb

and with a dremel i was able to do it with the engine in. Just covered it up to prevent a spark from getting where it shouldn't. Now I can also fix the guard where I backed into the letterbox.

[ Edited on 24-4-2007 by Stanley ]

Concrete floor to work on!
Mmmmmmmm! Concrete.

Good stuff Andrew - you're lucky re. the spot welds....as mentioned via U2U I had about 30 each side to drill out!

Makes life a lot easier (removable apron) - enjoy!

Maybe I could leave the guards off and keep it as a rod....think of the weight saving...🙅

Just a quick update.

I've just about finished the removeable rear apron. Just waiting to get it painted so I can fit it up.
While I am waiting I have been wanting to get rid of the points. I looked into Pertonix ignitor II ignition but instead have gone for a Sigma (Mitsubishi) full electronic ignition.

Well today I got it all installed and fired up. Thanks to Dangerous Dave Butler for supplying the dissy and module. A trip to the wreckers on friday got me all the looms and connectors I needed for the dissy and module. Starts so much easier and no points to adjust. Just need to limit the advance to 24degrees and it will be all done. Well worth the effort.

Just a note to let everyone know that Henry Spicak(VW Drag Racing Ledgend),
did the modification to the dizzy for me way back in the early ninteys.

It served me very well until my dog chewed the wires.

Henry donated his services to me as a gesture of generosity,
so I passed this on to Andrew for his help with me at the track.

Good to see it is going to such an interesting project.

Pics??

11CAB wrote:Pics??

guard and rear apron are getting painted Wednesday. I'll post some pics when it's all back together.

Surely you can't expect me to use the dissy now it has so much history.....:P

Had a bit of a win today. Have had an issue with not seeing more than 5.5psi boos when the wastegate actuator is set to 7.5psi.
Thought it might have been the VDO gauge not reading correctly or worst still that I just wasn't developing boost.
Did some tests today and have discovered that I’m suffering from wastegate creep ie the wastegate is opening a fair amount at 5psi and is fully open by 7.5psi.
I hope to remedy this by installing a more sensitive boost controller.
I want to increase the boost to 10psi. I was going to fit a new waste gate but will kill two birds and fit the boost controller.
Also have the sigma electronic ignition working well now and set the dissy to 24degrees max advance.

Stanley when I first read that I honestly thought you had run out of license points.

Well done, photos and description of the dizzy and install would be greatly appreciated to use as a reference.

Watching your footsteps closely!

At risk of hijacking this tremendously enjoyable thread (trust me, more than just myself are very jealous of your street sleeper turbo 1600!!), I've seen quite a few different dizzy modifications over the years on this site and was wondering if anyone can shed some light if one is any better than the others ?

Ones I have heard of ;

Magna
Waterboxer
Volvo 244
Camira (for EFI usage)

Any others that can be made to fit with simple mods ?

FYI

The sigma seems pretty simple. Although I do have one to copy from. I went to the wreckers on Friday and picked up another dissy fo $25 and I will mod that one as a spare.

Some minor machining just to shorten the length and another minor mod to remove the vacuum advance and it's all good. I guess i coud do a how to as I go along.

Will it be better than a 009? not sure but I only did it A) because I wanted to get rid of the points and B) Because Dave Butler gratiously donated it to the cause.

The other option which I nearly took was to buy the pertronix ignitor. This would have been easier but I like to tinker and after all it is the TAT turbo.

Doug Sweetman wrote:At risk of hijacking this tremendously enjoyable thread (trust me, more than just myself are very jealous of your street sleeper turbo 1600!!), I've seen quite a few different dizzy modifications over the years on this site and was wondering if anyone can shed some light if one is any better than the others ?

Ones I have heard of ;

Magna
Waterboxer
Volvo 244
Camira (for EFI usage)

Any others that can be made to fit with simple mods ?

Nissan Pulsa Turbo. Takes about 10 minutes to fit.
No points. Only suitable for EFI
L8tr
E

Finished the rear apron

now you see it


Now you don't


will make it so much easier to remove engine with turbo intact

[ Edited on 1-6-2007 by Stanley ]

Sweet! Love your work...

"Stanley's Performance Engine Building, Tuning and Panel"

That is a serously good looking bit of kit M8.
Im impressed.
L8tr
E

Discovered yesterday the need to brace the turbo. Took it for a drive to see how the new ignition was going. After the thumbs up I was down at the boat ramp near my house and was praticing some launches and all of a sudden it started running like crap and misfiring.

Limped it the 100mts home and discovered the turbo had been thrown back and had knocked the dissy cap half off. The sigma dissy's are larger than the 009. I need to push everything forward and make a new bracket. Todays job

PS thanks for the comments guys....👍

Hi

Interesting read. Has anyone told you that you have your generator fitted 90 degrees out? It important to have it the correct way otherwise the cooling vents in the backing plate don't line up. The earth screw should be almost facing straight up.

Steve

1303Steve wrote:Hi

Interesting read. Has anyone told you that you have your generator fitted 90 degrees out? It important to have it the correct way otherwise the cooling vents in the backing plate don't line up. The earth screw should be almost facing straight up.

Steve

Well spotted Steve!!!!

just a quick question about your turbo dump pipe .
what size did you use and why.

1303Steve wrote:Hi

Interesting read. Has anyone told you that you have your generator fitted 90 degrees out? It important to have it the correct way otherwise the cooling vents in the backing plate don't line up. The earth screw should be almost facing straight up.

Steve

Thanks Steve....i'll look into that. That was the way it came off if I turn it the wires wont reach...never the less I'll check...thanks again...:thumb

The dump pipe is that size only because I had an old exhaust system and I used the bends to make it (TAT remember). It' 1 5/8. When I fit the new system I may go a bit bigger. There are some different schools of thought as to big or small.

Stanley wrote:The dump pipe is that size only because I had an old exhaust system and I used the bends to make it (TAT remember). It' 1 5/8. When I fit the new system I may go a bit bigger. There are some different schools of thought as to big or small.

Thats very fair to say on the frontend of the turbocharger but on the back end you want it as free flowing as you can get.
2.5" minimum and separate the wastegate outlet as far as you can go if you can.
Theres a surprising amount of HP to be gained and spool time to be lost with a decent dump setup.

L8tr
E

I'm hoping to have a new exhaust system made in the next few weeks. Something like the attached photo. Won't be equal length but the merge/collector will be at the turbo flange.
Just trying to work out whether to have it made or to buy some mandrel bends and have a crack myself. I will need to have the actual collector made so it might be easier to get the local shop to do the whole lot.
Once this is done then I will make a dump that is more efficient than the one I have.
Unfortunately the bug has bitten hard and it's gone from a street car that will be sometimes used on the track to a track car that will sometimes be driven on the street....😵

It must all fit under the deck lid though as I need to be able to drive it to the track.

[ Edited on 2-6-2007 by Stanley ]

You are going to need a bigger engine lid!

Lovin your work.....

Stanley wrote:Something like the attached photo. Won't be equal length but the merge/collector will be at the turbo flange.

Altho equal length headers are desrieable, unless you have tuned the entire system to match you heads, cam timing and so-on the benefits are simply not here over an unequal length interference setup when speaking turbo collectors.
Even a basic log manifold works quite well.
Its just not worth getting to concerned with M8.

Just rout your pipes up so they come together where you need to.

Use heavy walled steampipe ands youe turbo moving around issues will tend to go away as well.

See if you can securely bracket the dump pipe to some part of the head or exhaust studs as well.

Keep at it M8. Great job.
L8tr
E

Don't bother with stainless unless your using bolier tube. Go Steel and have it ceramic coated.

Cant wait to see your next 1/4 time.
T54

aimimg for a test and tune on Wednesday the 27th June. I'm pretty sure Dangerous Dave will be there in his rocket testing the new exhaust.

I'm still in two minds about my exhaust. I will run it the way it is now and just see what improvements the elec ignition and more boost have. The money might be better spent at this stage on a dyno session.
I'm still running it with the needle that came with the SU I bought from ebay and a swag (scientific wild arse guess) on the mixture.

I'm hoping to get into the 15's next outing. Might even try some 14'' wheels

fitted a gated boost controller today so will be able to up the boost. i'm aiming for 9-10 psi.
Also found a place in Ipswich with a dyno so have booked the TAT in next Friday for a dyno session. This is specifically for setting the boost and tuning the carb. I want to make sure it's not leaning out.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Put the TAT on the dyno today to check and make sure it wasn’t leaning out and to set the boost after fitting the boost controller.
Mixed results….had all sorts of problems with the boost controller and best I could manage was 6.5psi for one pull and managed 88hp. After that it all went down hill. Tried to get more boost but the boost controller started playing up and the only run I have on paper was 72HP@ not quite 5 psi.
As far as tuning the SU goes it was leaning out ever so slightly which I tried to richen with the mixture but all that achieved was a rough idle. I will need to get a needle that richens the mixture at top end rather than at idle.

So for $95 I now know I need a new jet, I also now that once I get some boost in there it will certainly develop some HP and finally I don’t need to rev it to 5500rpm as it makes it’s HP currently at 5000rpm.

Finally, I have 4 kids and that was pretty nerve wracking during their births but, watching some dude in your car flogging the crap out of it to 5500rpm multiple times was pretty traumatic I must say.

Now to fix the boost before the next T&T

Good stuff.

Stanley wrote:As far as tuning the SU goes it was leaning out ever so slightly which I tried to richen with the mixture but all that achieved was a rough idle. I will need to get a needle that richens the mixture at top end rather than at idle.

yes M8, that adjuster on the needle jet is simply for idle mixture.
One drama with that boost controller would have had me simply removing it in the short term and doing a couple of pulls @ 7psi or so. Whatever that wastegate actuator is rated at.

You say it was leaning out slightly.
What EGO's did you return on that pull?

L8tr
E

Tass you have a PM !

Finally, I have 4 kids and that was pretty nerve wracking during their births

I stayed at the head end during this .I think it was a smart move

good reading with this post

'Old skool doesn't mean cheap. The TAT owes me more than it cost to fit a suby to my sons kombi. But I did it just to do it basically. a 1916 may have been cheaper but everyone has one of those......:P'

quoted from another post,

I was intrigued with the comment of cost -vs- the suby fit. I have always looked at that as a 4-5k job (ej22 so comparing apples), I then wondered on how tightarse this is?. At a rough guestimate, not for discussion with wives nor bank managers... how tight is your arse?

Statement might be ever so slightly exaggerated and it probably could have been done cheaper, but if I had to pay someone to do all the stuff I did myself it might workout the same. It probably cost about 3 – 3.5k to do the kombi conversion because we did most of that ourselves.
This is about what the TAT owes me including the engine rebuild at a rough guess. It's taken a few years so the memory is not as good. Maybe this is a good thing.

If anyone tells my wife I will hunt them down and do to them what she would do to me.

tassupervee wrote:

Stanley wrote:

You say it was leaning out slightly.
What EGO's did you return on that pull?

L8tr
E

14.2 - 14.4 going by the graph if i'm reading it right?

Great development Andy.... Im diggin' this little project so much.... Real world shit.... Keep it coming...

14.2 - 14.4 going by the graph if i'm reading it right?

K, thats sailing pretty close to the wind but with the low boost you are running along with low CR and very retarded ignition, id not be concerned at all by that.

Its an expensive exercise to buy different needles so i used to procure old ones out of parts carbs and modify them to suit.

You need to measure the needle and divide it up into, say 3mm increments.

Then just measure off the needle with your trusty verniers along those marks to give you a thicknesses at each point.

All i used to do was grab the needle in a drill and grasp the needle with some light wet and dry between my fingers and run the drill.
All the while moving the paper along the needle sos not to create "grooves" from the sand paper sitting in the one spot.

Measure it off again and compare it to your original measurements top keep a track of where you have removed metal, and how much.
Finish off the needle with some Scotchbrite or some 600.

It would help if you knew what piston lift corresponded with the leanout but to determine that will cost you another hundred buck i spose!
It might be fair to say that it was wide open, or close to wide open (fully up) that was the culprit as you indicated the problem was up high.

Id try removing about .010 off the offending end of the needle and give it another run.

Thall fuel it up.

keep your AFR's at around 13 to 13.5 and youll be laughing.

L8tr
E

cheers E...thanks

Although after todays testing i'm starting to wonder whether I'm actually able to make any more than 5psi boost.
I'll do some more testing through the week.
BTW...if I pull my carb off and pump up my inlet manifold using a compressor will I hurt anything?

here's the dyno sheet...hope it is readable

[ Edited on 17-6-2007 by Stanley ]

try again

Stanley wrote:BTW...if I pull my carb off and pump up my inlet manifold using a compressor will I hurt anything?
[ Edited on 17-6-2007 by Stanley ]

No!
L8tr
E

Did some tests tonight. Borrowed an extremely accurate gauge from work and found my VDO gauge reads 1 psi low.
Also found I have no leaks n the intake manifold.
What I did find is that the gated boost controller I bought leaks air across the ball and seat which then leaks out the bleed hole.

What I want is a quick acting controller that doesn’t leak i.e. sees 10psi then snaps open and opens the wastegate. Thought about blocking or making the bleed hole smaller. I guess this may play havoc with the wastegate closing.

Next Wednesday T&T I will try 2 things. Blocking the air bleed which should allow the wastegate to snap open at the desired boost, but hopefully leaking enough to allow it to close again. If this fails I’ll disconnect the wastegate and prove once and for all if I’m even capable of making boost. Hopefully if it does I can be quick enough to back off before bits of the TAT hit the track.

My guess at this stage is that best I might see is about 8psi if I can fix the leaks and the creeping wastegate. Just waiting for some info on the turbo housings to see whether it’s matched to my engine capacity. It’s off an EXA so by all accounts it should be. It’s starting to frustrate me……..

Tried setting the boost but don’t know how much air to put in the manifold.

Any other suggestions?

[ Edited on 18-6-2007 by Stanley ]

Altho in pushthru, those little turbos will make upwards of 16psi @ 6000rpm plus on a 1500 E15et engine so I seriously doubt the turbo is the culprit.

Invoke the "K.I.S.S" principle here and go back to basics.

I would suggest your boost controller could possibly the culprit and my thinking is to remove it altogether in the short term.

E15et T2's are wastegated at around 7 to 8psi. They vary a bit but perhaps a PSI either way at the very most.

Honestly M8, those fandangled boost controllers are often a niucance and you cannot beat a simple tee-piece, a bit of hose, a needle valve and a restriction in the line between the wastegate and the tee-piece.

Id also be disregarding things like boost creep, spooling times and so-on. It just isnt that much of an issue.
A T2 is a very small and fast responding turbo and so-what if the boost creeps a psi or so for half a second or so.....meh.
You wont feel the difference especially in a pull-thru setup which in itself, will introduce lag and slow down spooling.
Nor will you grenade and engine even if the boost spikes a bit.....relax.

One step at a time M8.

L8tr
E

Do you read Autospeed?

Do a search on there for boost controllers. They discuss a range of options like TSV explained.

www.autospeed.com

Thanks guys

big fan of your work
i was thinking of doing the same kind of thing for shits and giggles.
i have an su like yours ,i think.
what fuel pump did you use ?
and did you do anything trick to the su to get it to work better.
the reason i ask is because we are going to atempt to do everything in one night.extractors,piping,etc,etc .ready to turn key.
if you have any info or trouble shooting tips that will aid me that would be great.
i will take some photo's the the one night stand,it should be good fun.

anyway keep the pics coming,

The new exhaust which will allow me to run more boost without leakage and maybe even be more efficient.

what did you have done stanley?

looks great!

nick

sensational, more pics please mate!

The black system is what I have been running so far. it was a set of standard 1 1/2" thunderbird extractors with an "addition" however, the clamps were leaking under boost me thinks.

The new set are 1 5/8" tube and connect to a set of empi flanged at both end "J" tubes. The only thing is the empi "J" tubes run very close to the heads. Time will tell.

Good thing is everthing still fits under the decklid.

[ Edited on 20-8-2007 by Stanley ]

So mate - you reckon the TAT will be right for warwick?

Dasdubber wrote:So mate - you reckon the TAT will be right for warwick?

absolutely Alan....can't wait

For anyone who's interested here's the new exhaust all ready for warwick.

http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/stanley111/?action=view&current=NewExhaust.flv

Love it Stanley. Gotta be street and strip surely.

Neil

What a fantastic weekend. Firstly thanks to all those who made it happen and those who supported the weekend. The TAT ran flawlessly. Managed a quickest ET of 9.7 @ 73mph. That was Sat arvo when it was cooling off.
Dialled in at 10.10 for Sunday but the heat got the better of me so ended up changing to a 10.20 after a few runs. Managed to make the finals in AC and was paired against Brad (blup58) in the silver KG in what was the best race for me of the weekend.
We staged and the timing system shit itself so after a 5min delay it was on. We must have crossed the line in a dead heat but I broke out and ran a 10.04 on a 10.02 dial. Brad was on the money and ran a 9.808 on a 9.80 dial. How was that for close? . Even if I’d left my dial in a10.10 he would have still taken the win. Fantastic effort and race Brad. Brad then went on to race for the eventual winner
The new exhaust system did the trick and I’m now seeing 9-10psi boost (and 6000 rpm after my shift lite broke….whoops). Best of all didn’t have to touch it all weekend even after 10 runs.

Thanks again to all….cheers Stanley

73mph.............you're producing some good power :thumb

15.3 @ 89.5mph !!??

Tell us more!!

check the other post

Stanley wrote:I am thinking seriously of a draw through turbo for a 1640 I am in the process of putting together.

Hey man got any updates?

Also what SU carb and needle are or did you run?
I'm building a stock 1600DP with an SU carb.

Well after I started this thread almost 2 years ago to the day the TAT is being retired in its current form. Had my last race on Saturday which proved it will run consistently in the mid 14’s before some spark plug issues made me retire in frustration (for not buying new ones).

I am currently half way through building a dedicated drag car based on a 1960 aussie beetle which will use the transplanted turbo engine and accessories from the white car. The new car will be lightened as far as possible without gutting and hopefully with some gearing and slicks my aim is to get it into the 13’s. Then I will look at some engine mods to go quicker, but I’m committed to leaving it within the 1600cc range.

Thanks to all who have spurred me on and had input into the white car.

Stanley wrote:Well after I started this thread almost 2 years ago to the day the TAT is being retired in its current form. Had my last race on Saturday which proved it will run consistently in the mid 14’s before some spark plug issues made me retire in frustration (for not buying new ones).

I am currently half way through building a dedicated drag car based on a 1960 aussie beetle which will use the transplanted turbo engine and accessories from the white car. The new car will be lightened as far as possible without gutting and hopefully with some gearing and slicks my aim is to get it into the 13’s. Then I will look at some engine mods to go quicker, but I’m committed to leaving it within the 1600cc range.

Thanks to all who have spurred me on and had input into the white car.

Roll on TAT-TWO!

Thanks for the great thread Andrew.... May your new project be all that you hope.... And I feel I may be following in your footsteps.... The POS60 may very well end up a full-time 1/4 miler too..... Just gotta finish it first!!

Next week.... I promise!😊

the drag "bug" is biting you hard mate isn't it?? Might have to seek some sponsorship from "muffin man racing" for the new car me thinks LOL

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:the drag "bug" is biting you hard mate isn't it?? Might have to seek some sponsorship from "muffin man racing" for the new car me thinks LOL

Yep the bug has bitten...better late than never..😎

I think we are all sponsored by "Muffin Man Racing"....love those muffins.