Semaphores · Aussieveedubbers

blutopless2 · 18 Apr 2006, 11:43 am

can anyone tell me what was operated by the semaphores when they are in the up position??

There are two terminals inside the semaphore - one to power the solenoid and lamp and the other is connected to the solenoid shaft when it comes out the end of the solenoid coil.

Was there something on the dash to tell you it was "ON"??

kombikim · 18 Apr 2006, 12:19 pm

the second terminal is for the blue wire , to the indicator warning light on the speedo (arrow), when the semaphore goes up, a shaft that looks like a huge needle comes down through the solenoid , rubs against a sprung terminal connected to that treminal & completes the circuit

blutopless2 · 18 Apr 2006, 12:53 pm

ok thanks... clears that up...

does anyone know how it is internally wired to make that work? where is the needle piece connected into the power circuit?

oval TOFU · 18 Apr 2006, 1:02 pm

doesn't that needle piece slide against a brass/copper leaf spring (when the arm extends) to turn on the light in the semaphore?

blutopless2 · 18 Apr 2006, 4:04 pm

no... the light is powered from the same connection as the solenoid.
the needle then comes out of the solenoid when it is in the up position to make the connection to the second teminal.
Am just wondering where the connection to the needle is made at the other end?

Purple Martin · 19 Apr 2006, 9:05 am

I think the top end of the needle must be earthed? Isn't the dash warning lamp "hot" (i.e. its at 6V)? This would mean that if the needle is earthed then current will flow and the lamp will light up.

Use a multimeter to test if the needle is connected to the base plate of the solenoid.

blutopless2 · 19 Apr 2006, 11:37 am

thanks everyone for all your help....

the needle shorts to the frame of the car through the mounting bracket of the semaphore.

have figured out what i need to know to get em working...
thanks.

oval TOFU · 19 Apr 2006, 11:38 am

wanna make mine work after you're finished? :P🙅

blutopless2 · 19 Apr 2006, 11:50 am

hahaha.. sure... what condition are they in??
will let you know after the weekend if what i want to do can be done..
They require some modification and will not look "original" when i finish as i have to completely dismantle them and rebuild them again... and this requires drilling out the rivets etc...
fingers crossed.

oval TOFU · 19 Apr 2006, 12:09 pm

They're in pretty good condition.. everything's there, but there doesn't seem to be enough current to lift up by itself. Are you making a blinking circuit as well?

blutopless2 · 19 Apr 2006, 1:27 pm

yes... will all run from 12V in the end and have blinking lights.

oval TOFU · 19 Apr 2006, 2:30 pm

you are sooo doing mine...

[ Edited on 19-4-06 by oval TOFU ]

blutopless2 · 19 Apr 2006, 4:20 pm

well first step is complete... have them in pieces ready for rebuild.
Do we want photos before i go any further????
happy to post as i go if people are interested.

oval TOFU · 19 Apr 2006, 5:08 pm

yes, photos are always good! and use macro mode so it's not blurry!

blutopless2 · 19 Apr 2006, 6:14 pm

scuse the ignorance... but what is macro mode and how do i use it?? lol

Purple Martin · 20 Apr 2006, 9:27 am

Yes, post photos! And also do us a wiring diagram of how you make them blink, if you can!!!

oval TOFU · 20 Apr 2006, 10:07 am

blutopless2 wrote:scuse the ignorance... but what is macro mode and how do i use it?? lol

It's usually denoted by an icon of a flower... It'll permit you to shoot close up and in focus. Otherwise, all we'll get is a pic of something blurry in the foreground with a nice crisp backgroud.. :thumb

blutopless2 · 20 Apr 2006, 10:54 am

ok... i'll see how these go.

first one is coil removed from semaphore

connection segment (with one connector missing)

semaphore without coil attached

mscabrio · 20 Apr 2006, 12:07 pm

blutopless2 wrote:They require some modification and will not look "original" when i finish as i have to completely dismantle them and rebuild them again... and this requires drilling out the rivets etc...
fingers crossed.

Oh my god!!!!! Not original ??????? What on earth are you thinking ????????

blutopless2 · 20 Apr 2006, 12:44 pm

you silly girl... they will look original on the outside but of course they wont be "original" on the inside coz they need modification....

sheesh... do i have to explain EVERYTHING!!! lol :duh

oval TOFU · 20 Apr 2006, 12:57 pm

i'm not touching this with a 10 foot clown pole...:duh

good pics man. more.

[ Edited on 20-4-06 by oval TOFU ]

blutopless2 · 20 Apr 2006, 3:03 pm

oval TOFU wrote:i'm not touching this with a 10 foot clown pole...:duh
[ Edited on 20-4-06 by oval TOFU ]

wuss.... lol.

I will be putting them back as close to what they were before i started... just no need in my case to hook up the warning lamp to say it is in the up position as i have the flashing light on the dash for indicators anyway.
Will find out tomorrow if my plan is going to work or not.
Have to hunt for some parts to put it back together.

mscabrio · 20 Apr 2006, 6:40 pm

blutopless2 wrote:you silly girl...

sheesh... do i have to explain EVERYTHING!!! lol :duh

Well ..... you married me ..... and if you spoke clearly then you wouldn't have to explain everything

oval TOFU · 20 Apr 2006, 7:08 pm

mscabrio wrote:
blutopless2 wrote:you silly girl...

sheesh... do i have to explain EVERYTHING!!! lol :duh

Well ..... you married me ..... and if you spoke clearly then you wouldn't have to explain everything

Like I said... I'm not touching THIS, with a 10ft clown pole...

blutopless2 · 20 Apr 2006, 8:17 pm

mscabrio wrote:
blutopless2 wrote:you silly girl...

sheesh... do i have to explain EVERYTHING!!! lol :duh

Well ..... you married me ..... and if you spoke clearly then you wouldn't have to explain everything

hahaha... yes i did marry you... but i thought i spoke english well enough that you didn't need a translator!
so ner!

hehehe.. this is fun! :P

oval TOFU · 20 Apr 2006, 9:46 pm

maybe you mumble... chicks always complain we mumble...

20ft clown pole...

blutopless2 · 21 Apr 2006, 12:33 pm

lol.. went to check out some info today... what i want to do sounds doable but will take me a while to sort out some of the rebuild.
will post more next week when i get back to work.

blutopless2 · 28 Apr 2006, 1:48 pm

ok.. i have done a test run before i bothered to rebuild the semaphores and pretty them up in case what i wanted to do would not work.
Test was good and shows that it will work how i want them to... so here are some more pics of the work i have done to clean them up... am waiting on some parts which wont be in till next week so that i can progress them further.

cram · 28 Apr 2006, 3:36 pm

very intersting. I'll be doing mine not far down the track...

Are you rewinding them for 12 V?

mscabrio · 28 Apr 2006, 5:09 pm

oval TOFU wrote:maybe you mumble... chicks always complain we mumble...

20ft clown pole...

Or maybe when he talk about stuff like this all I hear is blah blah blah

oval TOFU · 28 Apr 2006, 5:17 pm

LOL

we're gonna finish this conversation at Mt Dandy young lady!

blutopless2 · 29 Apr 2006, 5:04 pm

cram wrote:Are you rewinding them for 12 V?

yes, going to run on 12volt and have flashing lamps....
picked up the wire yesterday arvo and getting some more stuff delivered next week. Then i can rewind them, rewire them and assemble them. Should be finished by Thursday, then gotta wire them into the car.

Purple Martin · 1 May 2006, 9:06 am

Very cool, please keep posting the pics cos I've never seen any this detailed elsewhere on the net!

blutopless2 · 1 May 2006, 12:47 pm

no probs.... i am just waiting on a few things via post to help me automate the process of winding the coils via a lathe.
Will post more pics when they are rewound.

oval TOFU · 1 May 2006, 1:00 pm

please do man! i'm watching in earnest... keep up the good work

blutopless2 · 7 May 2006, 6:00 pm

well after a wait longer than expected i finally got the bits that i needed... have assembled most of what i need for rewinding and will finish it off on Tuesday. Then its onto the lathe and rewind time.
Hope to have it all finished by sat for the dandy cruise.

oval TOFU · 8 May 2006, 12:44 am

awesome.. I hope you get em finished so I can check em out and get you to do mine! I fricken hate electrical work..

blutopless2 · 8 May 2006, 10:30 am

i dont like electrical work much either... but unfortunately i cant escape it since its part my day job... lol

blutopless2 · 12 May 2006, 9:23 am

well i have had some more setbacks with these damn semaphores... have had a trial run and it appears that what i was told by the coil winding people is incorrect!! i have two more ways of making em work that i can try so its back to the drawing board...

will post updates as i go.......

blutopless2 · 20 Jun 2006, 3:54 pm

well finally had some time to work on the semaphores again and now have the arms working on 12 volts. I now have to reassemble them and wire the lamp seperately so that i can make it flash with the rest of the indicators. Then the fun begins of wiring them into the car.

Purple Martin · 21 Jun 2006, 10:52 am

Excellent, I was wondering if you'd had time to do some more on this. 👍

blutopless2 · 21 Jun 2006, 3:54 pm

have reassembled one with seperate wiring for the globe.
retested after assembly and it works great.
Will do the other one tomorrow then hopefully put them in the car this weekend.

BUGBOY · 22 Jun 2006, 7:54 pm

Just letting interested persons know that i have 12volt semaphores.
They are all new.
Just bolt them in.:thumb Can
email me if your interested.

blutopless2 · 15 Jul 2006, 11:51 am

well its been a while ... have reassembled both semaphores and finally did some work on the car this morning.... have run new wiring for both semaphores but have struck a problem with the flasher unit... it does not work the way that i need it to work so am going to have to rewire part of the indicator system in order to get a constant 12volt to the coil and a flashing 12volt to the lamp.

will update as i go.

oval TOFU · 15 Jul 2006, 1:21 pm

I've thought about this before - you'd just need to have an extra wire or two to the semaphore wouldn't you?

circuit 1- provides current for the solenoid (constant current when blinker is on)

circuit 2- is connected to the flasher can and bulb of the semaphore...

yeh?

The difficult part would be getting the extra wires to the B-pillar with the headlining still in place. Let me know how you manage this as I'll need to do it i think...

blutopless2 · 15 Jul 2006, 9:09 pm

well the difficult part was running the wires through the existing channel in the pillar. i had one side still intact but the other side missing. the wire was run down to the floor of the car under the back seat and hooked into the rear indicator wiring.
I have now run two new wires from the semaphores down to the floor and along under the carpets to the front then up through an existing hole to behind the dash.
important thing to remember here is that the original design did not have a flasher unit installed as the semaphores did not flash.
the way that i thought the flasher unit worked was that the indicator lever switch is a basic 3 position switch with the common having 12volt supply to it. Then when you indicate the 12v goes to the flasher to tell it which side you indicated then it sends 12v to the indicators etc etc....
BUT... this is not how it is wired up. the flasher unit looks like it has a 12v supply and an output terminal. the wiring from the flasher goes to the common of the indicator switch then the two wires (for left and right signal) go to the indicator circuits. soooooo... i am assuming that what happens is when you indicate you load and ground the flasher unit through the indicator lamps thus making it flash..
this means that i have no 12v constant supply when you indicate to control the semaphores.
so what i have come up with is this....
i will rewire the indicator switch so it has 12v supply on the common... run the two wires for direction to two seperate DPDT relays. so the indicator switch will control the coils of the two relays - one for left indicators and one for right.
on one set of contacts i will supply 12v to the coils of the semaphores.
on the other set of contacts i will connect the flasher unit to the indicator circuit including the semaphores.
test out the theory on monday.

oval TOFU · 15 Jul 2006, 10:52 pm

man, I had to read that a couple times and do funny actions with my hands to comprehend that stuff. Sparky work is definately not my forte... good luck with it dude... I'll be enthusiastically waiting for ya results!

blutopless2 · 16 Jul 2006, 8:48 pm

hahaha.. no probs.. bought the relays today so will put them in tomorrow.

Purple Martin · 17 Jul 2006, 9:50 am

Looking forward to seeing how this goes as I'll be doing mine soon!

blutopless2 · 17 Jul 2006, 12:11 pm

well did all the wiring this morning... tested out the wiring before putting in semaphores to make sure nothing was wrong, turned on ignition and nothing... dammit.. after a few deep breaths and some choice words i found a wire had come off the ignition switch!! Do'h!

so after connecting that back up the dash lights came on and the original indicators all worked as they should...
connected the semaphores and they work, one is having trouble raising as it appears to be slightly bent and doesnt sit in the recess straight. so will take it to work and straighten it.

oval TOFU · 17 Jul 2006, 12:19 pm

So do they blink as well?

blutopless2 · 17 Jul 2006, 1:14 pm

yep.. they blink nice and bright... :thumb

Purple Martin · 18 Jul 2006, 9:55 am

Awesome! Can you post some kind of wiring diagram? Even if it's just a scan of something scribbled on the back of an envelope, or a picture knocked up in MS Paint. Please pretty please?

blutopless2 · 18 Jul 2006, 1:36 pm

hehehe... will see what i can knock up...

mscabrio · 18 Jul 2006, 2:02 pm

Yay ! I am so over hearing about those blinking things, hopefully you can now move on and fix the problems with my bug !!!!

blutopless2 · 18 Jul 2006, 2:10 pm

nah... wait your turn queue jumper!! 😀

blutopless2 · 19 Jul 2006, 11:41 am

Purple Martin wrote:Awesome! Can you post some kind of wiring diagram? Even if it's just a scan of something scribbled on the back of an envelope, or a picture knocked up in MS Paint. Please pretty please?

i can put up a wiring diagram but dont know how well it will work with your car as i dont know what the flasher unit is set up like. but will put up a pic of mine before and after the changes.

blutopless2 · 19 Jul 2006, 1:05 pm

well here is a pic of how mine were and are wired.

some things i have not shown on pic are.....
i have wired the 12volt supply to the semaphores through a fuse.
i have wired up my lamps seperately and they are connected to the rest of the indicator system so they flash (lamps have to be 12v of course).

blutopless2 · 19 Jul 2006, 1:06 pm

sorry bout pic but you will have to open it up to full size to see it properly.

Purple Martin · 20 Jul 2006, 9:14 am

That's great, and it makes good sense. Thanks very much!

Which terminals are which on the semaphore?

blutopless2 · 20 Jul 2006, 9:35 am

there are two terminals on the semaphore base... the lower one has BOTH the coil and lamp wire connected to it. If you want to have the indicator flash then you will have to cut the lamp wire from this connection and then join it to the indicator wiring. If you dont want it to flash then just connect the wire from the relay that goes to the semaphore coil.
The uppermost terminal is not connected to anything... from what i gather in the start of this topic it was there as a means of telling you that the semaphore was on. Most likely the dash indicator lamp would have been connected to this terminal which is grounded when the semaphore is in the raised position.

Are you rewinding yours for 12volt? dont forget to change the globe to 12volt also.

Purple Martin · 21 Jul 2006, 8:58 am

Thanks.

My car has been upgraded to 12V, but I'll be using a resistor to drop the voltage to 6V for the semaphores.

blutopless2 · 21 Jul 2006, 9:02 am

curious to know the resistance you measured on your coils?

blutopless2 · 22 Jul 2006, 2:52 pm

well did a little work on mine again today... have now got them both working properly... one was sticking in the recess a little... so just had to play around with the positioning of it when it was mounted... so now they both work...

thank god they are finished.

oval TOFU · 23 Jul 2006, 1:35 pm

super!

so you're running Harley's on the front and rear too?

blutopless2 · 24 Jul 2006, 8:10 am

well not quite finished... one is slow to come down when travelling over 80k's... so guessing its being flexed by the wind and not coming down straight... so little more fiddling with the position and she should be right...

drove it to work this morning to check out how bright the lamps are in the dark... DAMN!! lights up part of the interior!! ... lol.. so no excuses from people not seeing them when they are on...🙂

Purple Martin · 24 Jul 2006, 10:16 am

blutopless2 wrote:curious to know the resistance you measured on your coils?

Haven't measured it yet. I plan to get variable resistors in the right range, so that I can adjust the resistance to give just enough power to raise the arm when the engine is idling.

blutopless2 · 24 Jul 2006, 11:29 am

if you are using a potentiometer make sure it can handle up to 5 amps.

Purple Martin · 25 Jul 2006, 10:25 am

Good point.