I need a rust fixin' method without the expensive cost of a welder i am only going to use a couple of times. (i feel its not worth buying one when it ain't gonna be used very regularly).
Is there any 'liquid metal's or tough nut adhesives that are hell strong and hold metal to metal together strongly with no worries? Or is there other ways one can melt/bond metal?
Perhaps even kitchen chemistry of stuff that makes hell hot heat that can be put on little places here and there to melt stuff together?
Volkswagenboy ·
I guess you could get an Oxy/Acet gas setup, but that costs money...
-Staggers.
76camper ·
Might get enough heat out of an oxy/lpg welding torch, would need to buy hoses, valves, and nozels tho.. Body filler (bog) is very good at bonding to metals and is cheap aswell.
76bug ·
u can buy a cheap mig for 300 or so bucks, u only need low current so it would do the job, u will be very suprised in how often u will use a welder especially wen building a car
bajachris88 ·
yeah, it would be good.
I just can't help but thinking what else that $300 could go towards. Hmm, but am thinking every direction though.
Think this could be useful: (pic in bottom). its a torch i found in the garage.
koolkarmakombi ·
useless, propane. too cold a flame.
MIG is the way to go. Glues etc are used to put exoticars together but cost lots more than welding
bajachris88 ·
hmm.
Ah well.
If only i had my boiler making uncle here, he would be able to help me. He got TIG, MIG, arc etc, and he just welds heaps of crap for the sake of it. maybe its cause its his day job, lol, he works at the tafe in coffs.
ANywho, i got a mate up the road, will have to ask how his MIG is going, is was sorta playing up last time i heard.
sinecure ·
Liquid Metal is ok for rust repairs. Better strength than bog but a little harder to finish, so file it and then bog over the top.
1500S ·
Can't you borrow an oxy set? If you buy the torch that is the cheap part. The oxy/acet bottles (small) cost around $200 per year just for the hire, then there is the price of the gas. Quite expensive if you have no other use for it.
DH
sinecure ·
Half day hire of 10amp welder maybe?
helbus ·
I am wondering if this is a for real question?
Welding is done by fusion or brazing to join metal together. There is no alternative.
DubCrazy ·
i hate to differ but there is and has been for many years but it not a cheap option. 3M make a bonding glue that is designed for long flat panels to stop the warping welding can cause . in tests it has proven to be stronger than spot,tack,single sided and some mig.
We totaly rebuilt a 67 delux with the stuff (the whole bottm 6 inchs all round) and only welded the rails and front wheel arch's/steps. that was over 7 years ago in the uk and the person we did it for has just sold it with no signs of it breaking down or rusting.
A lot of cars are now being built from factory using this method but you need rebaiting tools and clamps to use it properly.
Useing anything else bar the proper bonding agents will result in major problems, DON'T use bog or such !!!!!!!!!!!!
personaly i would bite the bullet and buy a cheap mig, if u plan to be a vw freak u will be needing it and if cash is a problem i am sure u have mates who will need old cars welding up..charge em!!!!!!
steff......................
helbus ·
Understandably there are panel bonding products, however you will never see them used on any chassis panels. There is a reason for this. The peel strength is very high for panel bond. But shear strength is no where near the strength of a welded panel.
Car manufacturers are using panel bonding agents in SOME areas of manufacture, but don't think it is on anything structural. I know the roof skin of a modern car does contribute to the structural integrity of a vehicle, and you can panel bond a roof on. Ask an insurance company if they specifically will require a panel shop to bond a roof on to do the job quicker. They won't. Why? because from factory they are all spot welded still.
I say MIG weld it, no compromise.
Boozer ·
mate, if you buy a cheap mig you will not regret it. you will use it all the time, i know that in just doing the minor repairs on my kombi to get it on the road we did a lot of welding up of small holes and stuff. I always feel better knowing there is steel underneath even a large amount of bog.
And remember kids, welding is fun!
except when your hair catches fire, or you get slag running down your arm....
Boozer ·
just wondering...what do you have to weld up? cause there is always more than you think.
bajachris88 ·
hmm, its looking like i'm gonna have to buy a welder. Its both A pillars, and they are pretty structural, apparently. Certainly look like it anyways.
I'm just a cheapskate hillbilly looking for discount options, Hehe.
bajachris88 ·
will post pics, speaking of more, had a heartbreaking discovery this morning. Its official, the resto is gonna be off the pan.
Pics to come in a few mins, can't believe i missed some of the rust. Got pics of pretty much all i have seen.
bajachris88 ·
from when i had this, alot of it was hidden, the pics I'm about to show may disturb some viewers, it involves gruesome decay! :cry Definitely not the worst.
Alot of it was treated, but.... was not done right. IE: A metal plate glued over, or primer. the heater channel on the passenger side looks like it was bogged up, (now some nice gaping holes)
bajachris88 ·
bajachris88 ·
bajachris88 ·
bajachris88 ·
1500S ·
>Think this could be useful: (pic in bottom). its a torch i found in the garage. <
Is that thing some sort of mouse cable!!??
DH
If only i had my boiler making uncle here, he would be able to help me. He got TIG, MIG, arc etc, and he just welds heaps of crap for the sake of it. maybe its cause its his day job, lol, he works at the tafe in coffs.
What's his name??
[ Edited on 14/6/2006 by 1500S ]
bajachris88 ·
bajachris88 ·
[ Edited on 14/6/2006 by bajachris88 ]
bajachris88 ·
bajachris88 ·
bajachris88 ·
phew, thats all for now.... :jesus
Oh, and his names Paul Leete
Uncle paul 😀
u might have seen him before multiple times on the news, he was a big dude within the snowy river scheme (trying to stop it) Lol. But neah, hes kool. Used to live down there, but he moved a few yrs ago to coffs.
mouse cable? to the side, its a mobile phone charging cable, hehe. Its on my desk in the study.
[ Edited on 14/6/2006 by bajachris88 ]
11CAB ·
Find a mate who has a MIG welder and a drinking problem......a few cartons of Beer should get all your welding done......:thumb
bajachris88 ·
lol, u got the right mind mate, Haha 😂
1500S ·
I'd better send him an e-mail re teaching you some welding! You'd better come to Nambucca and have an extended holiday for term 4 so you can go to Coff's TAFE!
DH
bajachris88 ·
Having a fibreglass buggy body is soooo tempting right now, hehe.
I know i shouldn't think like that. Hehe (soz jace)
Boozer ·
11CAB wrote:Find a mate who has a MIG welder and a drinking problem......a few cartons of Beer should get all your welding done......:thumb
I don't have a drinking problem! I can stop anytime i want! .........................*empties smirnoff*........ see! I stopped!............*opens another*................:P
bajachris88 ·
lol, how many cartons u want boozer? hehe 😂
helbus ·
Seriously Chris, that is not too bad.
At least you have most of the vehicle there. Imagine if whole sections of pillar were gone, outside, inside, upper and lower.
There are some resto's being done at the place I am working now, where they will put up to 150 rust panels into one Austin Healey. That includes almost every single panel or bracket that makes up a convertable vehicle that you could possibly imagine.
bajachris88 ·
ouch :o Yeah, its not too bad, just too much to get away without using a welder, hehe.
I will defeat it, in time.
i got the panels for teh a pillars, the heater channel bottom just needs flat sheet metal to keep me happy, the outside could be some sheet metal too i guess. and around the fender bolts, rust convertor or sanding would do me. Just need that welder! Lol.
unless anyone in SE QLD willing to give me a hand. name a price, whether it be money, food, parts, or alcohol.
bajachris88 ·
i feel sorry for u helbus, lol, that is a hell of a lot of panels. u do see projects that start with simply a piece of scrap metal, (should get some pics/info booklets I got scanned). It makes anything look possible to rebuild form any little bit of metal left.
I'm sure ur a pro at ur work though, fixing a car like that would be an easy task u do every day i would assume. Its ur day job Lol.
Volkswagenboy ·
Anything IS possible Chris.
-Staggers.
helbus ·
Seriously. If I posted pics of some of the car bodies, there is no sane person who could think they could be restored. I am thinking now that I am not sane.
bajachris88 ·
well helbus, if u succeed it in, then ur not insane 😀
As said in james bond with elliot carter in the news publishing company, "the only difference between insanity and genius, is only a measure of success"
helbus ·
Speaking of James Bond
We have an Aston Martin DB2 at work undergoing a full resto. It is a rare race version of which there are only 2 in Aus
i know how you feel chris ,have similar rust in the 69 i`m doing now ,but i have a welder,whats even worse is when your boss knows you know how to do rust work and gets you to do the passenger side of his volvo tip truck cab which isnt remotely connected with our workplace just one of his weekend interests during work hours for rego,then tells you will bring it back in six months to do the other side, if i was closer i would give you a hand 🙂
sinecure ·
Helbus wrote:Not unfair to hate, but unfair to indicate which 'you' you mean???
😂
sinecure wrote:Is it unfair for me to hate you 😵?
Maybe straight envy would be more appropriate.
By 'you' I mean, well you!:kiss
helbus ·
:kiss
[ Edited on 19-6-2006 by Helbus ]
BanoraBus ·
bajachris88 wrote:Think this could be useful: (pic in bottom). its a torch i found in the garage.
That torch is the same as lineys use to heat shrink pvc cables.
bajachris88 ·
PVC cables? Lol, omg, don't think it will ahve much use on the car, HAHA!
Thanks anyways Pod, yeah would be great if ya lived closer. I think this is gonna be a good learning experience for me. As annoying as rust is, i refuse to be defeated by the inanimate crap! 😂
Peter, those pics of those rusty relics make me feel better Lol. On the bright side, i'm not in the worst of rust... Thank God. Hmm, My granddad in coffs up at bruxner park has an old vanguard ute in the plantation somewhere. They rekon its rusted beyond repair. Think any replacement panels can salvage it? I got enough rust troubles as it is, Lol, but its a classic. i think...
tayloredvw ·
hey man yeah you definately need to cut out and weld in new bits, im a sheety and i was going to suggest brazing or lead filling but not to sure on the cost of them. But tig would be best but moest expensive, mig most beginner user freindly and than theres stick or arc welding which is the cheapest of all the arc welding, but could be difficult for a beginner. You can pick up real basic arc welders from bunnings for around $1oo.
helbus ·
The first time user friendly ways to do rust repairs on a car sheet metal are with
oxy - No. 6 tip using fusion method, wire filler rod. Brazing rust promotes more rust, I recommend against it.
MIG - 130-200Amp unit using 0.6-0.8mm wire with gas.
TIG - basically like using the electricity like a MIG, but filler rod by hand/ fusion method like oxy.
There are thousands of variations and reasons for or against the millions of situations involved here. Ultimatley it comes down to patience. If you have no patience you will have to pay someone else to do it.
stevosky ·
That's not bad rust.I had the same bits in mine , just cut out the bad bits with a grinder & files to good metal,get some offcuts from a fabrication shop, cut out to fit in the holes and weld up with a mig.I bought a second hand mig for $350.00.Take your time and don't weld long welds in one place.Do short welds in different places to stop it getting to hot.You will have fun!Get somebody to give you some lessons on how to use a mig.Don't use an arc welder.
Steve
jonno-t3 ·
what about sheet metal and pop rivets....beat the rivets in and bog over....lots of rust converter behind.
its really bad i know, but i have done it and it works well...once u beat the rivets into the car a little bit and smear bog over it, you couldn't tell...atleast the guy who bought the datsun didnt know anyway:party
jonno
helbus ·
Sorry to cut it short and sweet Jonno, but that is hiding rust not fixing it. Very very wrong. That is a fact. :puke
jonno-t3 wrote:what about sheet metal and pop rivets....beat the rivets in and bog over....lots of rust converter behind.
its really bad i know, but i have done it and it works well...once u beat the rivets into the car a little bit and smear bog over it, you couldn't tell...atleast the guy who bought the datsun didnt know anyway:party
jonno
bajachris88 ·
tis what it originally had 🙁
jonno-t3 ·
lol...i know...i did say it was bad. but it works
jonno
helbus ·
No it doesn't
jonno-t3 wrote:lol...i know...i did say it was bad. but it works
jonno
koolkarmakombi ·
Hey Jonno, just remember you carry that karma with you.....................................................................:jesus
:jesus
:jesus
:jesus
jonno-t3 wrote:lol...i know...i did say it was bad. but it works
jonno
bajachris88 ·
all ideas helps HEHE. :thumb:P
Hmmmm, paper mache....
helbus ·
Believe it or not I have actually had a car that I worked on that had a sill panel made of bread and chicken wire. :puke
bajachris88 ·
and i thought i was desperate for rust repair:P
LMAO!. HAHA! that is hilarious Lol 😂😂
probably all stale, mouldy, soggy from rain... GAH!!! Wonder if the birds would still nibble it for lunch.... :puke
Reckon it was owned by a baker?
penguin ·
Pete,
so if a beginner had the choice would you recommend MIG Gas or Gasless or TIG?
I think I have the time and patience (and odd bits of bug to practice on so I don't burn through my oval or squareback!!)
helbus ·
MIG is the best bang for buck for a starter. I know all the small ones are gas/ gasless, but the gasless setup is for gatebuilding, not for panel steel.
You should be able to get away with a 140Amp unit for about $500. The gas bottle in D size which is 700mm high and 150mm diameter is about $60, with $100 a year rental for the bottle. I do quite a bit of welding, and I only go through a couple bottles a year, so I have to factor in about $250 a year for wire and gas. I have an SIP 140 MIG and I built the EH Limo stretch with it. Certainly enough power for car stuff. A huge resto on a car would probably use 2 bottles of gas and one 5kg reel of wire.
As a bonus, I spent all day today building a huge gate (no jokes about shoulda used the gasless). Welders come in pretty handy if you are a hands on kind of person.
TIG is pretty handy, however you still need gas, and you would probably want to do a welding course to understand it a bit better. A MIG is sorta point and shoot, and pretty easy. TIG is easy once you understand a bit more about weld pools and stuff.