My Starter motor [IT TURNS!!!]

PROGRESS REPORT:

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Ok... 😀, i got the starter wired up right. I have pulled out the starter about 4 to 5 times, last night, sat down and really played with it. The battery is GREAT! wiring it up directly with the battery, throws it out fully, and turns it too! Excellent...

BUT! WHen i wire it up 'properly' and hit the ignition, it makes the click but doesn't turn. It seems to only throw out a 'TINY' bit, hardly at all, (tis what the click sound must be), And seems to not ahve enough zzzap! to throw it out fully and activate the turning operation. the earth is good, but the red wire coming from the ignition just isn't supplyin' the guts.

was recommended to wire up the relay back on, will do in time when i get some spare (have started uni back again)... but regardless, cause of it being an after market item, it should at least do some operation being a stock wiring setup i have done up. (unplugged the relayin the process of tryin to solve this mystery)

So... the starter is GOOD
Battery is GOOD
Problem lies in the ignition wiring. If it was being earthed, u would think it wouldn't get any current what so eva, and wouldn't even click... SO what u rekon it might be? Am sooo close to turning 😀

BTW, thanx volkswagenboy1 for comin' around and wiring up my engine, got some good progress there and a great run through. I feel learnered 😀

[ Edited on 18/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]

[ Edited on 19/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]

[ Edited on 20/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]

[ Edited on 21/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]

did you have it in neutral

Are you still trying to figure out what you're doing?
:duh
-Staggers.

stupid qhuestion maybe... but how is your battey? thats what they do when theyre flat sometimes,

sorry mate cant help ya with your wiring mines all diferent now

tap the solinoid on the starter may be sticking ..

im thinking battery as well mate

semi auto must be in neutral to start,has got me a couple of times

bad connection to the battery? ie crook/corrdoded terminals
Bad earth? (need a big strap/wire from the gearbox to the chassis/battery

yeah, was DEFINITELY in neutral cause i have 1 wheel jacked up and taken off so as to have easy access to the starter and other loose cables and yadayada.

Hmm, Bad earth,definitly could be the case, will try earthing it. even try starting the starter outside the gearbox.

The battery was charged recently for 24 hrs 4 days ago, cause i thought that too. It works like a charm (the battery), well, seems to, radio is hell loud, and luves to make sparks 😀 (the battery). Usually i can notice a degrade in the radio volume/quality over time with the battery, seeing its neva had a gene on to recharge it 😀

Will tap solenoid too.

Could be the brush's in the starter This happened to me a month ago! New brushs now she starts.
Rob...

hmm... could be. was turning like months ago without the engine being in ( i made sure i didn't burn it out)

IT DID TURN yesterday! Only I had it wired wrong! And would turn without the ignition being on. And did not turn the motor though, the motor just went and turned!!! :o

Has mine got a mind of its own ?? Lol

Yeah mine was working perfectly one day not the next!
Rob...

how lee, wats up with those wires that plug to the gearbox, i think they are the ones ur talking about.

what do they do? They are like, 3 blades per plug, and theres 2 of em, one one each side of the gearbox, but at different positions.

Could my relay be playing up? which wire from the voltage regulator (in what position on which blade of the regulator) goes to the starter ?

it was in neutral, from memory.

But even if i had it going, with the engine in (yesterday), without it pushing the flywheel around..., does that mean something could be screwed. It wasn't pushing the flywheel, and wasn't running through the ignition.

I have no wires pluged to the motor, or generator, can these interfer at all?

From a tired memory tonight Chris,
I don't think any do??

You have the main Large cable going to the starter
solenoid, then there is a small wire which goes to the ignition switch... [via the LHS 3 pronged switch]

One of the 3 pronged switches [LHS]
is the neutral switch so the car can't be started in gear...
and the wire going to the control valve also goes thru it..
I don't know why??



The RHS 3 prong switch... is connected to the two single pronged temperature switches and it selects which range You are in, if the ATF gets hot...
this was omitted after 1972...

The two single prongs are temperature switches that are connected to the ATF light in the speedo...
If the light comes on , it means You have to shift back to drive 1... this would normally only happen pulling a trailer or 4 or 5 extra large people in the car going up a large hill..


Lee

Here is another diagram....
From different models....
but still the same....
I hope You can read them OK...

Lee

Chris,
I have resent some wiring diagrams to Your email address...
They may be larger.....??

Lee

Bump 😀

cheers all for ur contributions, the issue is slowly being narrowed down. might have some ideas what it could be, but am currently at uni and can't test em out. so like to hear all urs 😀

Chris,
Re the Neutral switch. Make sure the plug is on the right way!! It is supposed to slip down and over a moulded pop up spade, but you can fit it on different ways if you are unlucky. BTW, the plug is on the passenger side of the gearbox, right up on the nosecone

You may also have a voltage drop big enough that your solenoid doesn't fire properly....

Is the relay you mentioned a hard start relay?

As everyone else has mentioned...clean everything and make sure you're earths are OK. Your battery may charge, but it might not hold it and you could have a burnt out cell. Swap for a KNOWN good one just in case.


Enjoy
Ctefeh

chances are the ignition switch is old an worn and wont pass enough current to pull in the solinoid
had this problem in a few of my bugs

the quick easy method one on of them i did was just fit a push button switch for the starter motor

Joel

ctefeh wrote:Chris,
Re the Neutral switch. Make sure the plug is on the right way!! It is supposed to slip down and over a moulded pop up spade, but you can fit it on different ways if you are unlucky. BTW, the plug is on the passenger side of the gearbox, right up on the nosecone

You may also have a voltage drop big enough that your solenoid doesn't fire properly....

Is the relay you mentioned a hard start relay?

As everyone else has mentioned...clean everything and make sure you're earths are OK. Your battery may charge, but it might not hold it and you could have a burnt out cell. Swap for a KNOWN good one just in case.


Enjoy
Ctefeh

Yeah, not sure if its a hard start relay, but the starter WAS turning without the engine on a few months back, with the relay wired up...

I tried it with a good battery, same thing occured, same behaviour. I have a feeling that it just may be the earth. In regards to the neutral switch, lee mentioned that hte solenoid shouldn't click if its NOT in neutral, so it can't be that, as it does click...

So i'm gonna have to try the relay... and if no works, then check my earth... if no works, wire a temporary push start button, with another relay circuit 😉 from the ignition... But i would imagine, if the relay doesn't get the starter turning (the one i already got), its gotta be an earth prob... cause It does get some current in there no doubt.... and the relay runs directly from the battery, turning itself on with the small current from the ignition switch...

More playing around i need to do i guess :P

just hardwire if you want it started. Get a wiring diagram, find you earth, positive and then the terminals for the ignition. Once you find the right ignition terminals just short them with a screwdriver or peice of wire and it will crank. This is what i did to make sure the engine ran and did not lead oil prior to installing...

cheers mate, yeah, might have to give that the go...,

can't push start an SEMI auto can ya? cause the clutch can be in... hmm, but the torque converter needs to be flying toget movement... neah. Ur idea is good mate... must start da bastard that way, HAHA!

Show us your starter..is it a proper auto starter?
If it is not, it will hit on the torque converter, and not turn the engine over,
but be OK out of the car.

ide also check teh bushing in the gear box bell housing where the starter motor shaft pivots. May be some dirt or something (god knows what) in there stopping the starter solanoid from pushing the shaft right out and meshing the teeth.

WTF HELL!! I'm so... well, if this was BA, i would be f*(k$n flaming my head of, cause i'm just soo SH$#ED

Great, starter motor with appropriate wiring, earth strap wasn't properly connected so fixed it, excellent, all good, should work, start ya Bit@H! It didn't...

IT made a louder clunk, and playing with the engine, i turned it, had a specific point where it wouldn't go all the way around, probably only 1 or 2 degrees of revolution it just wouldn't pass though. NO it wasn't compression, because compression doesn't make a clunk and doesn't come on INSTANTANEOUSLY, so i pulled the F$%KEN peice of S#$T engine out... great, the engine now turns the whole way and around again when its OUT of the bell housing... but now... the starter doesn't turn or respond at all with the engine out... by all means, it did a little then wen't slower, and slower...... i think my battery is now flat... Despite the engine still screaming its AM garage...

More issues... I'm thinking.. maybe i should just trade the WHOLE semi auto system in for a manual. I'm sick of this S#%T! I just want ot be able to bolt in the thing and get the engine turning, NOT even firing, i don't want it to fire, i just been struggling for 5 weeks trying ot get this thing to TURN!!! I know hell more about wiring, earthin', the electrical system, the rear end wiring all together, and the starter... but its just got me no where.

Anyone want to swap a complete SEMI AUTO system for a IRS system (INCLUDES SEmi auto SPECIFIC! 1500 engine with extractors all COMPLETE!) shift rods, gear selector etc...

I remember pulling apart the manual 67' i had ages ago... things seemed more simple...

[ Edited on 19/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]

by the way, after playing with it with the appropriate wiring, it wasn't making as much of a clunking noise, by playing with it more and more... it started making a GRINDING!! NOISE! and the flywheel wasn't turning nor the engine at all.

the engine was bolted in tight and straight, sitting right on the bell housing, the starter was tight on the gearbox too.

This thing was supposably working PERFECTLY and driving around less than 5 months ago... before the engine was separated from the box.

there you go theres the problem you f*^&ed with it. if it isnt broken then dont f*^% with it. its that simple mate 😀

engine was already out before i got the BEEP!

ok so this falls in to the common complaint that somebody else f^%%ed with it before you got it. its alright mate im still finding those on the current bug and ive had it for almost 2 years

NO, its the cars fault! i know inside the bas4%rd is laughing at me! I hate my car

Thanx anyways guys for ur help and contributions, i have learned a bit... I should have been less ambious and held off till i was 25 or so to afford a garage, welder, money and proper equipment. This thing has been my stupidest idea since the start.

[ Edited on 19/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]

Patience, this will be something simple. You just have to find out what that simple thing is. I wouldn't be giving up yet, it will be more rewarding when you find the problem yourself. Just be systematic in eliminating problems. I want to see you do this, it gives me hope in attempting to put a type 3 auto in my manx.

lol, 5 weeks of trying to make a motor 'turn' has just erked me....

bajachris88 wrote:Thanx anyways guys for ur help and contributions, i have learned a bit... I should have been less ambious and held off till i was 25 or so to afford a garage, welder, money and proper equipment. This thing has been my stupidest idea since the start.

[ Edited on 19/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]

no I think the fishtank idea in the dash was worst !!🙄

Chris,
Walk away for a while...better than hurling a hammer around the place....

No bushes in a semi-auto bellhousing, they are a self supporting starter and don't need one....

I'd pull the starter and check it again. Make sure it spins anti-clockwise, and that the pinion extends. Also, read the numbers on the casing and post up. Lee can tell you if it's the genuine article...

Also...is the torque converter doing up nicely? Make sure it is seated all the way back in the housing and when the motor is in, ease it forward to meet the flexplate...

Checked the other earth strap? It's from the body to the trans mount near the nosecone...clean and fettle that too.....


Ctefeh

[ Edited on 19/7/2006 by ctefeh ]

Cheers. 😀

Good news, u know how i mentioned i couldn't turn my engine 360 degrees?

Well, unbolted, took it all out... and seeing i got the original workshop guide after i already put the engine in, apparently ur suppose to put the torque convertor in first. So... i pulled the negine out, unbolted the torque convertor, cleaned up the teeth on the tranny and torque convertor, getting small bits of foreign material out (atleast the fluid inside looks clean), checked seals.. all good...

Slipped the torque convertor all the way back... ALL the way back 😀, then bolted the engine back on, then bolted hte torque convertor back on via the little port holes in the bell housing, and guess what !! IT turns 720 degrees or wateva number of turns u wanna do with NO grinding, clunks, stops or winges... its in now 😀

Am charging battery for the 5th time in 3 months, and fingers crossed starter is gonna work. wiring is all ok, but after playing with the bugger, I might have killed it.

Yup, will check both earth straps again 😀 Check all my possible issues. Dam... if i was given this job again, i would certainly know where to start...

BUT YAY!

I walked away for a while, was pissed as hell, as u could tell Ctefeh, Hehe, but am happy, and couldn't help myself but jump into it this morning before i went for a road trip to Cabbage Tree Point with a special friend. 😀

I think we have almost reached the end... of the turning issue!

THE ENGINE NOW TURNS WITH THE STARTER MOTOR!!!

Won't do it via the ignition key, so somehting is wrong with that circuit. i can hear the relay turning on from the key... so current comes from the key... but from ther to the solenoid, doesn't seem to be anything. BUT!!!

IT works when i short out the 2 solenoid terminals, the engine turns 😀😀., no grinds/growls Haha. just need to get the mungle now to fire!! FIRE!

Progress at last:thumb

after 5 weeks!!