what has the best track time VW or Subie powered bug.

around a circuit.
no tube chassis included.

[ Edited on 16-8-2006 by malcolm ]

[ Edited on 16-8-2006 by malcolm ]

I think dieter's Type 4 powered 1302 is the fastest isn't it? Correct me if I am wrong.

How many are there?
Who out of all the types of racing has done the same track?
Most have run at Oran Park?
Perhaps the individuals should post their times in their profile, or near their avtar,
with the name of the track near their time.
Dieter's green car with its 2700 type 4 probably is pretty high in the power stakes.

dangerous wrote:Perhaps the individuals should post their times in their profile, or near their avtar,
with the name of the track near their time.

I'm aware that some people use to do this,then other people used to bitch about it and winge so that might be why you don't see them anymore?????? Not worth the sook value???

lol.. you could be right there, Mick!

I'll let you know on Monday.

There is 3 Subaru powered VWs and my lonely old vw powered oval doing a Porsche club supersprint this weekend.:alien

I'm aiming for a sub-2 minute time.

The circuit racing VWs don't race in a specific class so they are hard to compare. Each owner-builder has modified their car to their own philosophy and budget which makes them all very different.

All the VWs turning up at Eastern Creek on Sunday are show-quality car and even put some of the Porsches to shame.

CYA CT

Was it not a simple question? so one more time for the dummy: "what has the best track time VW or Subie powered bug." Umm what's there to compare?

Answer = VW powered bug.

And the VW's are only putting the Porsche driver's to shame, not the actual Porsche.

howabout a video...in car....vw powered bug against direct opposition, vw powered bug...sort of a sprint against each other around the track style?

Anthony

In Car video is boring, unless it is a WRC rally car !

dieter,s in car vid is worth watching and the 2nd 1

Rudi's probably has the best times for a VW-powered car; but it's built as a sport sedan.

Jak's car has the best Subaru powered times; but it's built as a daily driver.

Can somebody please explain the differences to Craig?

CYA CH

Just ignore Craig. He just feels a little left out when people arent talking about him.

I think it depends on the track,a power track with long straights & tight corners
a big hp turbo subie motor would have to be quicker.
Personally a complete package of a car including weight makes a better
& more enjoyable circuit car,the weight of a subie motor hanging out the
arse wouldnt have the best handling characteristics.
AIR COOLED ALL THE WAY FOR ME.

Christian, I think you'll find that Paul Zanello has the quickest times in his street bug, or Richard in his street oval, or Deiter in his monster type 4 street bug...........didn't even consider Rudy as it is a sports sedan.

Here are some times from Oran park:

1 71 Liam Wild WRX 1:22.3890
2 70 Andrew Powe Nissan Skyline '91 1:22.8580 0:00.4690
3 90 Simon Webster Nissan Pulsar SSS 1:25.5940 0:03.2050
4 747 Robert Hackett Alfa GTV 6 1:26.2800 0:03.8910
5 41 John Pattison Golf Gti 1:27.9260 0:05.5370
6 56 Christian Hansen VW Bug 1:29.4350 0:07.0460
7 141 Tony Williams MX5 1:31.3420 0:08.9530

I think Jak did a time of:
33 106 Jak Rizzo VW Superbug 2.0 1:27.8900 0:11.4860

Just buy a Nissan Pulsar, its about 4 seconds a lap quicker, or a WRX at about 7 secs quicker.

[ Edited on 18-8-2006 by Craig Torrens ]

Man, this is a hard one. Perhaps we can sort out a control track such as Oran Park and list lap times, this however is only available to the NSW guys unless interstate guys plan to travel.

Anyone else have suggestions for a control test? I have two ideas although they're more or less thinking out loud at the moment.

List your quickest lap times from 2 or 3 different tracks in your state then average those times and come up with one control time.
i.e:-
track #1: 1:00
track #2: 3:00
control lap time: 2:00
List the Formula Vee lap records from those tracks then average out the FV records to get a FV control time. (same as above)
At the end of this we can get an idea of how many seconds we are each slower or faster than a FV record lap time which should result in a pretty good nationwide yard stick.

The only other way I could think of would be a road test style comparison... 1/4 mile (and/or 0-100) times, top speed and skid pan results.

I thought the question was easy

It is, just not as straight forward as something like getting a list of 1/4 mile times :bounce

craig what happened to your ammended comments (got scared)
pulsar...bullshit

dutchy wrote:craig what happened to your ammended comments (got scared)
pulsar...bullshit

Happy to put them up.............just fueled by 2 bottles of good shiraz!

It was a really simple question, why do we always complicate the answer :jesus

Good Work
Dido
Good quality scotch on the rocks

[ Edited on 18-8-2006 by dutchy ]

there must of been at 1 stage a vw powered bug and a subie powered bug on the same race track mighten been at the same time but same track do they have track times .
Now I,m toscared to ask mysecond question.:duh

Jak must be pretty slow to get beaten by a SSS std pulsar??????

malcolm wrote:there must of been at 1 stage a vw powered bug and a subie powered bug on the same race track mighten been at the same time but same track do they have track times .
Now I,m toscared to ask mysecond question.:duh

Ahh, okay... Soz, I read it as if you wanted people to list their fastest lap times in a pan based car with VW or suby motors, similar to the fastest times over in the drag racing section. 😊

In that case I think Dieters car is probably the quickest of the bunch. If you browse back through the posts you should be able to find write ups on the Oran Park track days along with lap times of all involved.

Er hum. Time for a speech.

I imagine the best answer would come from unearthing the history of the circuit racing beetles that have come and gone over the past two maybe three decades.

The cars that spring to mind are Richard Holzl's oval, the Powertune Beetle that used to race in Sydney, a white beetle with Bathurst globes from ES Motors, Bob Mariner's '62 also from ES Motors, Paul Zanalos car etc.

These guys were a lot more serious about racing than Jak & I. We don't even have a single support crew between us, we don't have custom gear ratios, limited slip diffs, personal lap timers or racing fuel. We don't trailer our cars and we keep them in tip top condition.

To refer back to your question we're probably the only vw vs subaru powered bug combination duking it out on a track anywhere in Australia.

So far this year Jak has been faster at every track. I'm just happy to be close to his times. All he needs to do is stop using street tyres, bolt us some R-specs and I'd never catch him.

The biggest thing in contemporary VW circuit racing is just making it to an event. By the end of tomorrow Jak and I would've competed in all 5 Porsche Club NSW supersprints this year. Our nearest competitor in a VW only made it to two!

Malcolm, just get your VW on the track and enjoy it. I guarantee each event is an adventure. Beware circuit racing is hard on your car, your wallet and spare time; but it's bloody heaps of fun driving the car you work on at it's limits.

CYA CT

lol... I remember those ES cars! They weren't bad...

so when you getting a Subie, CT?

thanks for the replys

The only Subaru engine I'll have will be in a Subaru. I love the sound the make and the reliability.

But the old dac dac donk did well today pulling a shade over 6000 rpm in 4th down the straight. It did a rocker cover gasket today and left about half a litre of oil around the track (James Bond would be proud). Thanks to John and Rudi for their assistance in mopping up the oil and getting it going again. I beat my previous best by 2 seconds with a 2:01.67.

It was a blast chasing this 911 SC #96 around the track and filling up his mirrors. I was getting an excellent run on to the straight and getting within a car length of his back bumper. He'd pull away to about 5 car lengths down the straight (I thought it'd be more), and then I'd peg him back to about 3 car lengths under brakes into turn 2 (Good old type 3 drums!). I was quicker out of 3 and he was quicker out of 4. I was quicker out of 5 and he slowed me up until the back straight where his gearing seemed a bit better. Then I'd peg him back through the final turns and on it went, lap after lap. It was awesome.

The Subaru powered bugs rocketed down the straight and smoked their tyres out of the turns. Paul had a gearbox drama and JVL had a clutch drama. Jak was the only person not to have a drama. Like I said it's tough on the cars.

CYA CT

What a great day for racing, not a cloud in the sky.

Congrats on a new PB.

Times for the class:
1 36 Craig Drury Mazda MX5 1:50.2040
2 71 Liam Wild WRX '06 1:53.3802 0:03.1762
3 70 Andrew Powe Nissan Skyline '91 1:55.1420 0:04.9380
4 106 Jak Rizzo VW Superbug 2.0 1:59.9260 0:09.7220
5 41 JohnPattison Golf Gti 2:00.1220 0:09.9180
6 471 Ed Schulz MX5 '99 2:00.7100 0:10.5060
7 56 Christian Hansen VW Superbug 1.9 2:01.6720 0:11.4680

apart from breakages/problems, it sounds like good fun!
I'll have to be content with hunting MX-5s and Porsches on the Old Pacific Highway for now




[ Edited on 21-8-2006 by VWCOOL ]

CT, I've gotta say kudos for being able to stay so close to JAk and his limo..... within two seconds with no power adders at all (ie your car is NA, Jaks turbo ....). Nice driving. Must help with the oval being a couple hundred kilos lighter.....

Great to hear you are both still sticking it up the porsches.....

Jak is on street tyres which are the best on the first timed lap then they start to get tricky.

I've got proper R-spec tyres which get better every lap as they heat up. The higher corner speed is the only way I can stay in touch. Jak can pull 2 seconds on me just on the straight.

I like driving behind Jak, it's fun to watch. He four-wheel drifts the car and hangs the tail out. My car looks like it doesn't move; but it's different from the driver's seat!

It's more fun if we stay in the same speed group. Yesterday we all managed to get into speed group 3 out of 4. That's pretty impressive when you look at the other cars in the field.

I played the in-car video this mornig and looks fast. We've all got in car cameras and will get together to relive the day. It's cool to see your own car smoking the tyres coming on to the straight at about 120kmph.

CYA CT

[ Edited on 21-8-2006 by fullnoise ]

What engine combo and tranny are you running CT?

Hi Dave,

Don't you remember? You helped me set up the heads. Thanks for your advice on distance-to-coil-bind. It was obviously good advice.

Briefly: 69 x 94, engle 130, D-port 040 heads, 9.6:1 CR, webers & a merged header.

While I'm talking numbers I figured out that the average speed was 117.3 kilometers per hour!

The tranny is a stock 4.375 r&p out of a 1972 1300.

CYA CT

[ Edited on 21-8-2006 by fullnoise ]

Hi Ct,
yes I remembered the engine, just wasn't sure whether that was still the one you were using...good ave speed by the way!

CT,

You keep mentioning the R-spec tyres.

What sizes do they come in? Where are they available from?
What kind of prices (for those of us not sponsored by Yokohama)

Hi David,

R-spec tyres are race-spec tyres. Unlike slicks the have tread grooves and are suitable for both wet and dry conditions. Unlike passenger tyres they rely on heat generation for the rubber compound to become grippy. Sixty degrees is where their operating temperature starts. Trying to generate that temperature in 3 laps in a low powered light car like beetle is a challenge.

I use 195/55R15 ADVAN A032Rs which have now been replaced by the ADVAN A048Rs.

A048s are used in Targa events, Supersprints and in racing categories including V8 Utes, Aussie Racing Cars, Porsche 944 Challenge and the Australian Production Car Championship.

They area available from the Yokohama Motorsport dealer in each state. These are listed under motorsport at www.yokohama.com.au

CYA CT

They seem to come in two grades: M-H and M
Which are you running?

I was considering using them just on the rear. That is where I need the grip, and it would only cost half as much.
Ever tried that? Any thoughts?

Hi David,

The tyres only come in one compound for each size. It's important to pick the right size for your car so it will generate the heat.

Don't get overly concerned with the compound. The V8 utes are MH and do their best times on the second lap.

The tyres I use happen to be an S compound and my fastest lap wal also on lap 2.

I wouldn't mix passenger car tyres with R-specs.

These tyres are designed to have a certain amount of slip. If you're exiting the corner in a four wheel drift then that's about right.

CYA CT

The key word is still setup! Suspension & Tyres.A bigger hp motor will not match it with a superior car set up.Driver ability comes into play also....Times on equall car setup Subie versus Vw motors.....Subie no doubt:thumb But at the mo Dieter is the man to catch well done:PJVLRacing

[ Edited on 27-8-2006 by JVLR ]