Dedicated nitrous engine.

Hi all,
I have decided im going to build one useing the engine parts i was collecting for turbo. It will be 84 flanged with thickwalled 92`s ( fitted with je pistons ). Heads are 44 x 40 CE`s. I have either 65mm single TB, 48mm dual TB or 48mm dellortos.
The trans is 002 with sway away axles, 930 cv etc.
The goal is to get the 69 ( i reckon about 850kg ) into the mid 11`s. I wont be useing a half assed system either, i intend on doing it right the first time.
What are you thoughts on trans gearing, cam profile, compression ratio, valve sizing and induction. Lets here them.

Regards, Keith.

I forgot to add i still want to be able to drive the car every now and then.

[ Edited on 23-12-2006 by Keith Haeusler ]

[ Edited on 24-12-2006 by Keith Haeusler ]

Here`s my ideas on the gearing. Albins 4.57 002 style r/p with 3.1,1.8,1.26,.93 with 26in tyre.
For the engine i think comp of 9.5-10:1, cam somewhere around 260-270 at 050 and 400 lift (web 86c?). The heads have k800 springs, but are unported so need to be ported for this application by someone who knows what i need. The valves are the cb racemaster and im not sure on the quality of these so might swap them out.
The crank,rods and pistons/barrels should be able to handle what i want to do. I have done some research on bearings and can get good quality heavyduty stuff.
The case is a cb ally with good 10mm studs. Fingers crossed this is up to the task. I`m thinking of selling some stuff and buying a pair of ida`s for this.
I would guess that done right the motor would make around 170-180hp, so how much nos would i need to reach my goal ( assuming that the chassis tune is on the money ) 80hp?100hp?
Any ideas,suggestions etc. I`m all ears.

Regards, Keith.

Hi Keith,
The ratios in first and second sound good, but 4th will be a lot of rpm on the street.
If you are happy there, then I think it will be fine for the 1/4 mile.
If that is a stock L model 4th gear, then I would be a little cautious with its strength.
Albins makes good ones for what ever you decide,
and also new crownwheel and pinions too so that you can use the berg hsg
without a spacer or "cut and shut" pinion.

Engine sounds good.
A dedicated nitrous engine should be able to use a 100 shot no worries,
so long as the tuneup is in order.
The heads would be great with some port work, and perhaps a larger
intake valve....although it is a 92 bore hey? I think a 46 may fit....
40 exhaust valve is heaps.
Without a doubt, a nitrous engine likes a wide lobe centre,
so a custom grind cam is in order.
If not, then go for the smaller duration (250 to 260max @ .050").
What ratio rockers do you have planned?
The general trend is to use larger exhaust duration exhaust, but with your exhaust valve this may be unneccesary.
The exhaust lift will not need to be as large as it is on the intake,
and you may like to do this with the lobe rather than the rocker arm.
If you use the 10:1 comp then keep the deck height tight as parts will alow, and use good fuel.
You may be able to use pump fuel even with the nitrous since it has such a cool intake temp.
So I would choose a cam of 250 to 255 intake with about 5 degrees more exhaust duration and 112 to 114 lobe centre.
More later .
Merry Christmas!

Dave,
Thanks for the advice. All the gears will be Albins including the r&p. I have spoken to them about the 4.57. Do you think a .89 or .82 might be better?. I was concerned about the drop between 3 and 4.
I basically just want to be able to take the kids for a run to the shops, not extended highway trips.
Yes the bore is 92mm. I`m after a good head ported to work on the heads, anyone know someone worthy? The rockers are 1.4`s. I have a cam that has is ground 112 with 260 at 050 intake but it has less exhaust duration. Better get on the phone to surecams in the new year. I`ll snap a couple of pics of the build for the engine porn lovers like myself.
Thanks again and Merry Christmas to all

Regards, Keith.

I have been thinking some more about this.
The 4th gear will suit your planned use fine, and the step to it, from 3rd is sweet too.
Do you have your mainshaft yet/
If not, Albins only makes four different 002 style mainshaft, 1/2 combos now,
other than their 1000dollar custom orders.
The 2.82/1.86, 0r the 3.0/2.0 is the closest that they have, and this will make the 2 to 3 rev-drop larger than your current proposal.
I use a 1.81-1.26VW 2 to 3, and it is acceptable, but prob a maximum rev drop with your combo.
Mine has the 4.857 ratio though, and a .89 4th.(.93 would be better).

Perhaps with the 4.57 you may prefer(rather than custom order) :
3.0
2.0
1.35 or 1.29
.93

The currently available 2.82 first(that comes with the 1.86) is prob a little tall,
but if it were me, and with a soft clutch and small cam would be my choice off the gas.

This all assumes that you do not yethave the 3.1/1.8 mainshaft.

Hi again,
So i ordered the 4.57 r&p today, have a 2 month wait until in stock. Now i need to order the rest of the gears. They have as Dave said the 3.0/2.0 and 2.82/1.86 in stock now. Just not sure which way to go. I dont mind paying the extra coin for a custom set either, seeing as i have to wait anyway.
Also after someone to work on the heads. Does anyone have a head guru that they use and is after some work. Let me know.
I`ve got to get this done for Warick.
Regards, Keith.

Can't wait to see it at warwick Keith! Best of luck with the project ahead....although a lot of it is above my understanding, I appreciate threads like this to learn from those with much more experience than me!

Have a talk with Craig at Crankshaft Engineering Keith. 07 38067488

He taught me everything I know about head stuff, and they have a flow bench in-house(which I have a share in).

Craig has done many sets of Comp Eliminators of late but has a vast experience of all types of VW heads from stock dual ports, right up to the Pauter and Autocraft heads.

Craig held the ANDRA ss/c record in his all steel '68(glass windows) in 1990,
using VW heads and case, and ran as quick as 11.65@113.8 and 11.50@118(ARPM),
with a car that was close to stock weight.

He is your man, but get in early.

Keith Haeusler wrote:For the engine i think comp of 9.5-10:1

With your comp Keith wouldn't it be better to run a little less say up to 9:1 this way you can get more nitrous into the cylinder?

Essentially nitrous is a form of forced induction...

Cheers

Thanks everyone for your reply`s.
Dasdubber, this is all new ground for me. It`s quite a learning experience for myself. There is so much info out there i`m having trouble trying to absorb it all. I will be taking a broom up to Warick incase i need to sweep the engine up off the strip.

Dave, i rang and spoke with Craig and the heads are on their way up. What doesn`t that bloke know. You dont have the number for Shore?cams do you. I cant find it in the book.

Flintstones, i`m still undecided at this point on the cr. There is alot to learn and from what i understand you can run higher cr with it compared to turbo.

Regards, Keith.

http://www.surecam.com.au/

Surecam
Phil Duggan.

Thanks.

Keith Haeusler wrote:Flintstones, i`m still undecided at this point on the cr. There is alot to learn and from what i understand you can run higher cr with it compared to turbo.

Regards, Keith.

You can run a higher CR (to a point obvioulsy) no probs, it just depends if 100hp shot will be enough, or will you get the urge later on, to up the ante 🙂

I remember there was a torana years and years ago that was doing nines mainly because of the nitrous setup and the lower CR, don't quote me but I think it was OzNos' development torrie.

Looking forward to seeing this run in the future.:thumb

Cheers

some info might turn up here Keith as this guy continues with his Nos build

http://www.airspeedparts.com/community-forum/index.php?s=3345c70db6d82573c4c9c73ac81ecd9d&act=ST&f=14&t=914&st=160

Keith Haeusler wrote:. I`m thinking of selling some stuff and buying a pair of ida`s for this.

I have recently swapped from 48 DRLAs to IDAs, to be honest, apart from the look I wonder why I did it ?? If you were needing to run more than 42mm venturis I would swap, barring that I wouldnt.

Im interested in what Nitrous system you will be using, I will be doing a 2332 build through the winter using a RLR/ NEX nitrous set up.

Wizards of nitrous (UK) have some awesome gear and a huge amount of experience.

Just a completely off the wall thought, but is it worth considering running two diferent fuel systems?

I was thinking running a 9.5:1 CR for 98 octane pump fuel for a snappy response and great power on the street, but then run methanol through the nitrous fuel nossels with a seperate fuel system.

Methanol will burn cooler, and allow you to run that higher compression and still take a huge NOS hit. Methanol's ability to help resist detonation will be a bonus for you too. No problems with corrosion too because you won't be running this on the street right? 😀

Sorry don't have any pearls of wisdom. Just wanted to say, I was at WSID drags on Aust day for the holden vs ford and there was 6cyl powered LC torana there with a monsta NOS system on it. Very basic looking motor with triple sus and that was about all. Love to know what was inisde the block. It pulled something like a low 10 and left the V8 next to it way behind. Very impressive. Love to see what you'll do with your bug once it's sorted. 👍

iswinkels wrote:Just a completely off the wall thought, but is it worth considering running two diferent fuel systems?

I was thinking running a 9.5:1 CR for 98 octane pump fuel for a snappy response and great power on the street, but then run methanol through the nitrous fuel nossels with a seperate fuel system.

Methanol will burn cooler, and allow you to run that higher compression and still take a huge NOS hit. Methanol's ability to help resist detonation will be a bonus for you too. No problems with corrosion too because you won't be running this on the street right? 😀

Pretty sure it has been done Ian. I was planning on running a seperate pump and lines anyway, would be a matter of a tank I guess. The nitrous does a good job of cooling the charge, as long as you are injecting liquid it is at least -86 Celsius (boiling point).

I have been advised to blend race fuel with pump while on the bottle, 9.5 CR, FK87 cam... Long way to go, waiting on heads, engine in pieces...

Down here in sunny NZ, we are allowed to run Nitrous on the street, but if I smack my kids Ill go to jail...

[ Edited on 4-2-2007 by noslug ]

Hi all,
Just a quick post to let you know where im at. The heads are up at Crankshaft Engineering being set up for their intended use by Craig.

We are debating whether to step up to 46mm inlet valve due to the way the heads have been machined by CB. Surecams is grinding me a cam for the engine as we speak which suits the addition of nitrous to the engine.

My new thickwalled 92`s are lost somewhere between here and the states ( been 3 months now ).

I have been reading anything i can lay my hands on about nitrous, even bought and read the latest book by Wizards of nitrous. I am sold on their product and will definitely useing it on the bug, along with their nitrous controller.

Have decided on a comp raio of between 9 and 9.5 to 1. Also it will have a dedicated fuel supply but will be sticking with pump or race fuel.

I am going to email a shop in the states called Nor-Cal speed who use and set up the WON systems and the guy is a VW racer to boot.

More later. Regards, Keith.

Keith,

I've heard that the WON nitrous systems use an entirely different solonoid to most US systems. What seems to be the main problem with the NOS type of solonoid?

Is it O.K. with just a straight hit of Nitrous and not progressive or pulsed?

What would be the maximum HP hit before going to a progressive system?

Cheers,
DOC

Hi David,
From what i have read and understand ( remember im no expert ) the WON system uses a pulsoid which is capable of being pulsed efficiently to allow the use of a progressive hit system. The generic US brand solenoids struggle in this department.
Check out this : http://www.forum.nitrous-advice.com/multi-stage-vs-pulsed-progressive-vs-revo-t2791.html

Good article as to why a progressive system is easier on the engine, driveline etc than a fixed hit. I am sure a fixed hit will work as plenty of people have and are running that type successfully. From what i have read a progressive allows one to run a higher hp shot as it ramps the power in.
As for the max hp hit before you need a progressive system i don`t know. I would say it depends on engine components, tune, type etc. At a guess on a vw between 75 - 100hp?

Regards, Keith. Send me your adress and i`ll lend you a good book to read on the WON system.

Cheers Keith thanks for the offer! I've only just recently placed an order through our local Motoring Bookshop, so I'm set. Knowledge is power right!!

Look forward to catching up again in Warwick

davidoconnor wrote:Knowledge is power right!!

Horse "power"?

NOW.... where can I get some more knowledge?

dangerous wrote:

davidoconnor wrote:Knowledge is power right!!

Horse "power"?

NOW.... where can I get some more knowledge?

The only thing I don't get is how do they get all the knowledge into that blue bottle?

might be sumthin' here too Kieth.........

http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/n2otheory.htm

They call it Laughing Gas because it brings so much FUN !!!!

There is a guy on Cal look com who was running a 1916 and a 150 HP fixed hit (more nitrous power than the engine made). You can soften the hit in a non progressive system by running long lines from solenoid to nozzle. I have read of some V8 guys running 6 ft plus lines.

There is no doubt the WON system is the best.

Heres another Forum (V8 based) http://www.americandragracing.com/xmb1/forumdisplay.php?fid=26

How's this coming along keith. Keen to see the buildup as it progresses.

Another way of "softening the hit" is to run the nos line after the solenoid through or close to something hot like oil. That make the initial hit not so hard like not purging the system. Then once the fresh gas comes through you have full hit. Also keeping that line after the solenoid longish softens the hit too. Or you can run a staged system. Hit it then hit it harder, or more in the next gear.......... so many options.

Hi all,
First off thanks to everyone who has replied with their knowledge. I have decided to go with the WON system ( direct port ) and use a progressive controller which has the capabilities to tune the nitrous from inside the car to suit my needs. It can basically do what Boostn mentioned above electronically.
I decided to go custom mainshaft so i have a couple of month wait for that. Ring and pinion is still 2 weeks away.
Sure cams has finished the cam. Just need to pick it up. Heads are still away, manifolds just arrived so i need to send them up to Craig. Thick walled cylinders ( second set ) still arent here!
So im basically at a standstill with the engine until all my parts get here. In the interim i am working on the body. When i work out how to attach photo`s i will post some here. ( i`m arsed if i can get them to attach )
Thats about it, still reading and trying to learn as much as i can for a bit of a heads up before i attempt this.

Regards, Keith.

Hey Keith - any luck with parts arriving yet? I guess progress is dependent on when you get the gear!

Boostn wrote:

dangerous wrote:

davidoconnor wrote:Knowledge is power right!!

Horse "power"?

NOW.... where can I get some more knowledge?

The only thing I don't get is how do they get all the knowledge into that blue bottle?

I'm guessing you don't mean blue power-aid? :P

I can relate about the part delays... Havn't driven my bug in more than 8 months. Still waiting on my Rancho tranny...

[ Edited on 4-4-2007 by 2443TT ]

2443TT wrote:

Boostn wrote:

dangerous wrote:

davidoconnor wrote:Knowledge is power right!!

Horse "power"?

NOW.... where can I get some more knowledge?

The only thing I don't get is how do they get all the knowledge into that blue bottle?

I'm guessing you don't mean blue power-aid? :P

I can relate about the part delays... Havn't driven my bug in more than 8 months. Still waiting on my Rancho tranny...

[ Edited on 4-4-2007 by 2443TT ]

Rancho?

Why when people like DB have been building boxes for years?

Unfortuanately for some people it is not worth the hassle of chasing parts and cores IN this country.

It seems even with the freight cost, that a box can be built in the US for about the same price as the parts cost alone here in Australia.
eg businesses selling a $60US dollar cast side cover "on special" for A$220 is madness
and poor business practise(not that I would know so ignore my rambling)

Although I have heard that some people are being sold trannys for a PRICE rather than features.

Ian knows what he wants... so I am sure he has ordered a lot of things from one shop that would take 3 or 4 shops to do here.
eg new gears, and hipo parts, new OEM parts, case bracing(not a fan), core, and labour.

At least if it needs service or repair work there are many businesses in this country that can do that for him.

Many people order a tranny from companies overseas based on HP or times,
but in most cases some tings will work OK, but not really be suited
or have an unacceptable life span for the dollar spent.

Gear boxes are rated using torque and then factored for abuse.

I hope you chose a Bus Tranny Ian.

Sorry for the Hi-jack keith.

I should clarify that I am "not a fan" of WELDED bracing on magnesium cases.

Many other forms do help.

I hear you've been busy? Spill your guts for us will ya?

CYA CT

Yeah!
What he said.

Hi all,
Been a bit slack with the updates lately so here goes. I have finally finished the pan, replaceing balljoints, tie-rods, wheel bearings, seals, all bushes, cables, brakes, 28mm torsion bars, etc. I ran 2 10mm steel lines through the tunnel for the fuel system as i plan on fitting a back to tank regulated system. I have a Mallory pump and reg ordered which should be here in a few weeks.

All the Albin`s gears are here. 4.57 r&p, 3.1,1.8,1.26,.96. Have the 002 trans, bus into bug adaptor, 4 spider 091 diff etc. Just need to find a gearbox guru who`s willing to make it all fit.

The shell is off to my cousin come panel beater come painter tomorrow. I have decided to paint the car the original diamond blue in an effort to keep the cost and downtime to a minimum.

Now the engine. My heads are still away but i expect and was made aware of this. I had a cam ground by Phil at Sure cams, the finish is just unbelievable. Wasn`t expensive either when compared to other offshore cams. I decided to go with a direct port WON nitrous system which should be here in a week. I also bought a controller at the same time.

Hpoefully in the next few weeks i will start mocking up bottom end etc getting ready for the top end then off to balancing. I ended up with an 84 x 94 combo as i had drama`s trying to get thick 92`s so i gave up and ordered some wiseco`s instead. I read they have a thicker top ring which is more suitable for nitrous applications.

Well thats about it so far. Can any of the pro`s out there point in the right direction on lightening 930 cv`s and also shock absorber selection. I`m pushin` for Warick so we`ll see how it goes.

Regards, Keith.

Can someone explain to me how to get the photos to attach to a post. I cannot seem to get it to work. Ta.

Click on new reply at the bottem of the page, at the bottem of the text box just above "post reply" button there is a box for attachments, click browse and find the pic on your computor

For attatchments the photos must be under 100kb but less than 50kb is the site's prefed size.

I opened a free host at photo bucket(ignore the advertising)

I normally reduce my photos down to about 500 to 700 width on a program called photofiltre,
then upload them to Photo bucket.

Once they are hosted on there, I copy and paste the IMG line.(RIGHT CLICK TO PASTE!).

Give me a ring some time keith .

Hi,

Here a a few photo`s of my attempt to retain a standard type 1 tunnel useing a type 4 mained crank. I modified a BMW thrust bearing and used it in conjuction with some wasserboxer thrusts.

Please feel free to comment/criticise as im not to sure on the reality of the set up.







Regards,
Keith.

And thanks for the photo tips.

[ Edited on 13-7-2007 by Keith Haeusler ]

I've just edited the pasted image links Keith so they show up in the thread - you have to put after the pasted link for it to show up. Let me know if you have any troubles
alan

[ Edited on 13-7-2007 by Dasdubber ]

That looks great Keith.
Make sure you have plenty of 'radius clearance' on that inside radius,
the FW one looks to be plenty.

I like about 8 thou end float too,
remembering that the only oil that the FW-side gets
has to pass through the bearing first.
So also needs a good about of oil clearance on the journal diameter also.

Good idea!

Dave,
i ended up with 009" endfloat. I will increase the inside radius some more as well. Would you recommend i add a few more `oiling grooves` on the flywheel side to aid in getting oil in there. I would also add another oil drain in the same position on the other case half.

And thanks Alan for fixing the photo`s. All a learning curve for me. Took me an hour to get the links up there. Call me a computer novice.

Cheers,
Keith.

Good morning Keith!
The factory grooves in the face should be enough,
but one extra one per side wont hurt.
Don't make them too wide as to reduce the surface area too much,
and give them a curved bottom (rather than flat) to aid in the 'oil wedge'.

9 thou sounds like a lot but is fine for flanged deals.
(I have used 11 and currently have 9 also)
No engine ever seized a thrust from loose end float, only tight ones.
(unless you whole bearing moves in the case....which we are not talking about here!)

I am sure that at some point, the wider clearance may stop the oil from 'wedging',
but the grooves in the face will assist that when the crank is thrusted
against the bearing during clutch use.

Extra oil return hole is a good idea too, just steer clear of the main oil gallery!
Blend it's entry like a ram tube radius.

Also make sure you have at least 2.5 thou oil clearance on the journal diameter at the flywheel end , and 2 thou or more at the other bearings.

Don't forget the oil holes in the bearing!!

I would look real close at the oil passages coming to your main bearings and make sure of alignment,mine were off on my new case(aluminum). Mike

Dave and Mike,
Thanks for the replies. I mic`d the crank at 2.362" and inside mic`d the thrust at just under 2.365" so ive in between 2.5 and 3 thou. The other mains measure the same.

I have noted where the oil gallery is in relation to the slot in the bearing and will modify the oiling slot to suit. None of them line up.

I have posted some pics ( hopefully ) to gain some internet practice.

Thanks,
Keith.





Got it suss`d now.

[ Edited on 14-7-2007 by Keith Haeusler ]

t4 crank or t1?

t1 case has been machined for t4 main bearings?

got myself confused thinking about it.

It is an aftermarket type one crank.

The main bearing size is increased to 60mm (fromm 55mm) to give added strength.

It is described as having "type 4 mains"

Koolkarmakombi,

As Dave said it`s a scat type 1 crank with the larger type 4 mains. I`m trying to retain the standard type 1 tunnel, i.e not tunnel bore the case to accept the larger type 4 main bearings to suit the type 4 mains( 60mm ).

This way i can go back to a type 1 main( 55mm ) crank at any stage because i have not modified the case tunnel in anyway. Thankfully there is a BMW bearing that is type 1 tunnel on the O.D and type 4 main on the I.D. It`s simply a thinner shell.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Keith.

Larry its looking good how far are you

Dave,

Slowly getting there. Got let down by a few U.S suppliers which kind of slowed progress somewhat.
We`ll see how I go.

Cheers, Keith.

What I have been seeing lately is that the heat from the clutch is being transfered through the flywheel to the rear main,eating it up. What they are doing over here now is moving the thrust bearing to the middle journal of the case. I know Dave probably has some pics he can post. Rimco does the mod and it works. Believe me, I am let down by suppliers all the time and I live in the states !
Here is a site you may want to check out,
http://www.forum.nitrous-advice.com/
Mike

[ Edited on 22-7-2007 by dragvw2180 ]

I luv this new engine stuff.
Keep it up guys.

Engine sounds awesome Keith

hows the car coming alomg keith- let us know some more details
adam deb

Hi Adam and others,

Firstly i must apologise for the lack of updates on the car. We had another child (No3) which led to house extensions etc. This slowed me down somewhat. It`s a viscous cycle of work longer to get $$$ but then no time to work on project.

Anyway, the car itself is done ( paint, trim, wiring etc ) 002 trans is finished and in, all fuel system in, brakes finished, basically a completed roller.

Now the engine. I picked up a new mag case for a good price cut for flanged crank, bored, clearanced, bushed, pinned etc so i am using this instead of my ally case for starters. I have done a centre main job on it which i think turned out pretty good. Will post pics next week as i am away this week end.

I got some CB ultra wedge heads and will be using these over the CB C/E heads for now mainly for the cooling side of things. Engine parts are away at the moment being balanced. Cam is custom ground by Sure-cams to suit.

For nitrous i bought a kit from w.o.n in England. I went for a set of fuel & nitrous pulsoids on each side. Alittle more expensive but this is what they advised to keep lines short as possible. I am waiting until i have engine in car before i mount it too make sure everything fits in. Starting with 25hp jets then will move from there.

Basically still need to get exhaust, thinking off A1 sidewinder so i can hide it under car. Also need ignition set up, gave all my stuff to Col for his car.

Will post progress during week so you can have a look where im at. Aiming for a bit of a sleeper so to speak.

Regards, Keith

Hi,

Here are a few shots of the thrust on the centre main saddle. I saw a photo of a case done like this in the US so thought i`d give it a go.

I had the saddle machined to accept the thrust bearings then had 2 steel rings machined up and white metalled. Split the rings and drilled and tapped saddle. Then surface ground the backs of the bearings until i had the correct endfloat.

The screws sit about 1mm below the bearing surface.







What do you guys think? Should i cut some small grooves into the face of the bearing for oilling?

Regards, Keith

And thanks CT for the computer lesson!

Very neat work Keith.

Yes I would certainly put some grooves in the face, especially on the FW side.

Use a tool that provides a curved bottom of the groove,
and make sure the edges of the groove,
where they blend into the actual bearing thrust face,
have no sharp edges that can scrape away the oil film.

This applies to the edge where you cut the two in half as well.
Factory bearings have a very slight ramp at the parting line
to provide the "wedge" that I mentioned in a post above.

How did you get in there to drill and tap those holes so neatly?!

Can you tell us who did the white metalling?

You will have to be very careful cutting the grooves,
that the heat generated does not cause warping of the steel,
and does not melt the white metal.

how about some pics of the rest of the car
adam deb

Nice one Larry!

Cheers Col

Hi again,

Adam, here are a few shots of the rickshaw. Excuse the blurr and layers of dust on the paint. It`s a 69 semi auto converted. Still wears automatic badge on decklid.



I didn`t want to hack the dash for gauges so i`m making up something to locate them under dash etc



Here is the 002 trans fitted with Berg mounts that make it a bolt in arrangement(with the bus into bug box housing). 930 cv`s and sway-away axles in that pretty red colour, complete with stickers.



Here is a shot of an ultra wedgeport chamber for those that are interested. I think the intake port is the same as a normal wedge.




Dave,
I think the mob that white metalled was called Perry`s or Parry`s. They are at Chipping Norton. I will find out for sure as a good friend dropped the stuff over to them for me. It cost $80 to do both rings. They said it was time consuming to build up the white metal.

I will cut same small grooves into the thrusts this weekend and let you check it. And yes it was a major PITA drilling and tapping the case. We used the worlds smallest 90degree drill and `modified ` a tap to fit in the confines of the case.

More soon.

Regards, Keith

Beetle looks great!

That will be a shock when people look at it and then look at it go ... I love it 👍

looks great keith cant wait to see it go - warwick maybe? im hoping to come up
adam deb

C'mon Larry. Get a wiggle on. We're driving to Warwick in convoy this year. Remember!

CT

Hey CT,

I`m getting there. This time of year i don`t get much freetime due to O/T at work. Some bright spark that orders our trucks gets them at the same time of each year so they are all due for rego at the same time. Makes for exciting times trying to pass 30 odd in nearly as many days, then getting defects cleared etc.

Anyways, i had a bit of a go just lately and this is where im at.



Took at bit of time trying to fit everything in there and still making it accessible for jet change etc. Here is a shot of the pulsoids. red fuel, blue nitrous. The jets are located in the base of the pulsoid.



What i need to do now is give the tinware some attention then clean and assemble the engine for the last time. Still need to get exhaust, which i am undecided on. Am waiting on a price on 1 3/4 sidewinder from A1. Want to keep the sleeper look thing going.

Thats about it for now. Will have some more progress pics in the next couple of weeks.

Cheers, Keith

That looks really neat Keith,
Do the tubes just push on?
Cheers
D

Thanks mate.

No slip on, nut and olive job.

Regards, Keith.

when r u going to fire the beast up

Dave,

I hope to have it ready to start by end of this month, may not have exhaust though. Probably just fire it with a taiwan exhaust i have laying around here.

Regards, Keith

Looks awesome Keith
You might need me to spray some flames on the tinware haha
Chris

Looks awesome Larry,

I want a full build report on Friday night.

Oh and were not having spaghetti bolonaigse i remembered!

Cheers Col

Hey Keith,
dont know if u have decided on the exhaust yet, but next time your passing through campbelltown give us a yell and ill show you my car with the side winder, fits awesome, looks killer (from under the car) and sounds fat! just call mikes phone, we're generally up at the workshop every night.

cheers adam

Keith Haeusler wrote:Hey CT,

I`m getting there. This time of year i don`t get much freetime due to O/T at work. Some bright spark that orders our trucks gets them at the same time of each year so they are all due for rego at the same time. Makes for exciting times trying to pass 30 odd in nearly as many days, then getting defects cleared etc.

Anyways, i had a bit of a go just lately and this is where im at.



Took at bit of time trying to fit everything in there and still making it accessible for jet change etc. Here is a shot of the pulsoids. red fuel, blue nitrous. The jets are located in the base of the pulsoid.



What i need to do now is give the tinware some attention then clean and assemble the engine for the last time. Still need to get exhaust, which i am undecided on. Am waiting on a price on 1 3/4 sidewinder from A1. Want to keep the sleeper look thing going.

Thats about it for now. Will have some more progress pics in the next couple of weeks.

Cheers, Keith

Hi,

Just a quick up-date on the car.

Finally ( about 2 years late ) finished the thing. I took it over to CBB and ran it up on the dyno and got 161hp N/A at the rear. Pretty happy with the performance, it`s a blast to drive. Here is the 161 run. I now have a baseline figure for future changes.



And heres a couple of not so good shots of the car. Just need to organise rego then i`m headed to WSID to see what happens.





I ended up changing the cam to a Web 86c, figured i`d probably not drive it that much anyway and might as well have more off nitrous fun. I don`t intend to use a large dose when i get it sorted. The cam is advanced 4 degrees and comp is 10:1.

48 ida`s with 42 chokes, 32 total advance. 1 3/4 sidewinder, MSD dizzy with 6 al.



Regards, Keith

Awesome Keith!!

Great results Keith. Looks excellent. 🙂

That looks awesome Keith!
A blast to drive - fark yeah and imagine it with a 100 shot...
Look forward to some track results with and with out the juice.

Thanks guy`s. It took alot longer than i had hoped, but i didn`t want to rush it and do something half arsed.

And Oldskl, it`s a bit of a challenge with 165`s all round.

Also forgot to mention 2332cc, out of the box CB Ultra wedge heads ( just flycut and check springs ) and 1.4 rockers.

Wondering if i should have set cam timing straight up/retarded as it peaks mid to high 5`s?

Must thank Henry for building the 002, shifts flawlessly!

Cheers, Keith

Great result👍.

Hi keith,
yes , a little surprised how low the RPM range power peak is with those heads and cam.
But that is not really a bad thing.
Like all combinations, it will most likely be little things that can change the whole combo.
The outright power is very similar peak number to Rod R's 2275, so it should be able to slip into the low 12s on slicks.

Little things like retarding the cam as you mentioned,
shorter intake length, and exhaust, and possibly larger primary pipe size will all move the rpm up,
but probably the most likely will be the carb size,
and inside of the manifold restricting the heads.
Also note how it begins to go rich at the end.
Perhaps a slightly larger air corrector, or different emulsion may extend the power peak a little further.

Unfortunately IDAs can be a pain to tune for street driving with the larger venturis.
Not impossible, but a pain.
In fact Weber said their IDA was never meant to use bigger than a 42,
but they certainly flow more air with a larger venturi.

Another point to note is the CB heads normally flow poorly in the .050" to .100" area,
due to the ugly steps left from the seat and chamber being done on two separate machines.
Light blending of the chamber to the seat, and/or a nice seat job can increase the "low lift flow",
which interestingly also extends the rpm range.

Are you happy with the spread of gear ratios? Seems like a nice spread you have there.

Nice work Keith!
Look forward to hearing some results from the strip...

My engine is similar to yours (2442 and 10.5:1) using ultra wedgeports and an fk87. I did spend a bit of money getting the valve seats replaced and re cut as the run out was a bit on the high side, and blending into the chamber (even then the flow numbers were lower than those advertised) other than that untouched. I had the cam advanced and peak HP was around 6500. Spent a weekend on an engine dyno and made more power with 42 vents than 44's, didnt have any 40's to try. I have retarded the cam to straight up now, yet to see how it performs.

I love the look of the WON system and the whole sleeper thing is very cool !!

Thanks for the good info there guys.

I had read the `matched` manifolds need porting so i bought some long die grinding bits and opened them up further up the manifold - but, i am no head porting guru so they probably need correcting.

I want to get a few miles on the engine then i will have another go, playing with emulsions ( it has F2 and i think should be F7/11? ) and jetting. I might make some kind of `stinger` arrangement aswell and see if the muffler is making a difference. Could be sidewinder vs standard merged not as good?

Dave, the gear splits feel nice. 1st maybe feels a tad too tall, but time will tell i guess. To be honest, i have never had a full ratio box before. Or raced with slicks. So i can`t really compare, but seat of the pants it feels pretty good.

Regards, Keith

Hey Keith
Any progress here?

Oldskl,

Haven`t been out to track just yet, but won`t be far away.

I did some more research on the manifold porting and it appeared that they require welding to be ported correctly. So i have them off at the moment to be welded. I get them back this week.

I will let all know when i am heading out.

Regards, Keith

cool to hear it's nearly ready to rumble.should be heaps of fun on the street.

when i had carbies we found the f11's the best,but every one has there idea of which is better.my combo was similar to yours. so it wouldn't hurt to give them a shot.as for your manifolds,i found when i welded mine they warp'd pretty bad ,so you might need to re-face them before putting them back on.
mine warp'd so bad i had to re-drill and tap the ida stud pattern..

can't wait to see it going down the strip,make sure you keep us posted.

would love to hear this thing .😂

So,

Drove the car out to WSID tonight. It weighed in at 900kg with me in it. The best time i could manage was 13.449 at 103.08mph. I had to idle the car off the line cause the 165 hankooks couldn`t handle anymore than that. Even then it would light up one tyre. Best 60` was 2.34.

I think i may need some tyres. Anyway i had a blast puttin` a few xr6 turbo`s to shame. And it drove back home under it`s own power. Only failure of the night was the speedo cable.

Hopefully with some grip, tuning and more practice etc i can get in the 12`s. Then i will try the nitrous.

Regards, Keith

Congrats Keith.......you should have told me, I would have run mine tonight as well !

Nice work Keith, on 165 radials!!

🙅 Great work. Must have been a ball.

Thanks guys. I had fun out there, even on the cheese cutters. Was a good shakedown for the car.

Craig, it was a last minute decision to go. Hopefully by next week i will have some decent rubber and then maybe we could organise a few of us.

I definitely require some practice and would like to try some suspension adjustments etc. Got to get the thing ready for Warick.

Regards, Keith

Craig Torrens wrote:Congrats Keith.......you should have told me, I would have run mine tonight as well !

I thought you were scared of going in a straight line Craig!! Not too many corners on a drag strip LOL

So do this mean you'll be at warwick to give Keith a run??

Congrats on getting the car running Keith. Been reading this thread from day dot and nice to see the hard work paying off!!

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:

Craig Torrens wrote:Congrats Keith.......you should have told me, I would have run mine tonight as well !

I thought you were scared of going in a straight line Craig!! Not too many corners on a drag strip LOL

So do this mean you'll be at warwick to give Keith a run??

Congrats on getting the car running Keith. Been reading this thread from day dot and nice to see the hard work paying off!!

not scared....just bored with it.😂

BUT, knowing my little 1916 wil get me into the 12's in a street car has given me some excitement.😎

I'm sure Keith and I will enjoy blowing away modern cars at WSID on a regular basis.........certainly easier than driving for 10hours to run the 1/8th 🤓

Keith you started out using a new alley case in the first pics and then it seems you ended up using a mag case.....any reason why ?

Craig Torrens wrote:

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE wrote:

Craig Torrens wrote:Congrats Keith.......you should have told me, I would have run mine tonight as well !

I thought you were scared of going in a straight line Craig!! Not too many corners on a drag strip LOL

So do this mean you'll be at warwick to give Keith a run??

Congrats on getting the car running Keith. Been reading this thread from day dot and nice to see the hard work paying off!!

not scared....just bored with it.😂

BUT, knowing my little 1916 wil get me into the 12's in a street car has given me some excitement.😎

I'm sure Keith and I will enjoy blowing away modern cars at WSID on a regular basis.........certainly easier than driving for 10hours to run the 1/8th 🤓

Keith you started out using a new alley case in the first pics and then it seems you ended up using a mag case.....any reason why ?

Craig, are you getting 12's out of your 1916. Wow that impresive, what sort of power is it making at the wheels?

Hi Keith, hope u don't mind me posting this.

Car looks fantastic, pics don't do it justice. Glad to see it running.
regards
Jak

Hey Kieth, when ya going out for skid next?

Lowbug,

Will head out next wednesday if weather permits. If not the one after.

Regards, Keith.

kieth, make sure you post here when your gunna take it to the drags

Good luck tonite Larry, give it heaps!

Cheers Col

Keith Haeusler wrote:Hi,

Here are a few shots of the thrust on the centre main saddle. I saw a photo of a case done like this in the US so thought i`d give it a go.

I had the saddle machined to accept the thrust bearings then had 2 steel rings machined up and white metalled. Split the rings and drilled and tapped saddle. Then surface ground the backs of the bearings until i had the correct endfloat.

The screws sit about 1mm below the bearing surface.







What do you guys think? Should i cut some small grooves into the face of the bearing for oilling?

Regards, Keith

And thanks CT for the computer lesson!

Here is how I tackled the "quality thrust bearing issue" for use with the flanged cranks.

This case was purchased through scat as having "type 4 mains tunnel",
but it is just your regular bubble top alum case,
that they sent out to Rimco for a line bore to type 4.

First step was to counterbore a recess
to match the Toyota thrust washer at the FW side:



And then one in the inside too.
The thickness if the web must be controlled to have the correct end float result!

The flange's diameter will block most of the oil return hole, so a new one must be drilled.
I added two extras because this set-up also has a small hole drilled to let fresh oil onto the thrust face.
Normally the thrust is oiled by the system after it has passed through the journal diameter.





Key ways are cut front and rear to stop the thrust washer from rotating:

71-BEETLE-SEDAN wrote:kieth, make sure you post here when your gunna take it to the drags

What were the outcomes at WSID and Warwick Keith?
I saw you broke something at Warwick on the video,
but it looks like you fixed it?
CV flange or something?

Hi Dave,

Best i could manage at Warwick before it broke was 8.09 at 86mph on 1.79 sixty foot. 6500rpm launch. Tried 7k, went bang. Was getting better with each increased launch.

I haven`t been out to WSID since last time, either too wet or i get stuck at work. I hope to be there very soon.

Yes, broke the drive flange. It was a fabricated 091-930 flange. When i took it off i couldn`t believe it lasted that long considering how i made it. Not very well designed.

Anyway, i have since fitted 2 new chinese chromoly ones and bolted them on. We shall see what happens.

Ordered my new progressive contoller from Santa last week. Getting closer now to giving it a go.

Nice flanged crank set up. I have now covered 600miles in mine and end float still measures the same as when assembled, so here`s hopeing.

Regards, Keith.

Hey Keith,
I was looking at your lines going into your manifolds for the NOS, is it just the picture or does your system inject fuel and NOS separetely? I ran pro fogger nozzles years ago, they mixed it inside the nozzles is why I asked.
Your buildup has been impressive and you have a very nice car, something to be very proud of. Mike

Hi Keith,

just read this from the begining,very cool,glad you kept at it,these projects seem to take forever:-)
I thought you might be interested in my nitrous engine I built a few years ago now as a comparision,it was in my cabrio[over 1100kg with me in it] which I drove everywhere back then so it had to be streetable,heres the engine combo

It was 2332 with mag case,8mm german head studs,scat 8 dowelled crank,VW flywheel 8 dowelled and lightened,no wedgemate,just a berg gland nut,scat 5/16 bol h beam rods,wisecos in mahle cylinders,FK47 on 108 lobe centers with CB comp eliminators heads[46/38 valves with port n polish]scat 1.4 rockers,10.2/1 compression,berg 1 3/4 header,st 1 kennedy clutch with a 4 puck disc.
Type 1 irs trans with 3.88r&p, 3.78,2.06,1.56,1.12 gearstack with a quaife lsd,944 cvs and "russian made shafts"
I had a WON nitrous system with only one pair of solenoids[mine were mounted up higher for access to the jets],WONnitrous controller and DTA efi.
The engine dynoed at 229 flywheel hp and I ran up to 120/130hp of nitrous on top.
Driving it to the track[about 80miles] fitting phoenix slicks and putting some higher octane fuel in,also stinger instead of muffler it went best 10.88@126[mph could be slightly out]then putting the treads/muffler back on and driving it home,just for reference it went 13.27 best with treads and no gas.
When you get that car sorted it is going to be alot of fun and surprise alot of people


Enjoy it

cheers richie,uk

richie webb wrote:Hi Keith,

just read this from the begining,very cool,glad you kept at it,these projects seem to take forever:-)
I thought you might be interested in my nitrous engine I built a few years ago now as a comparision,it was in my cabrio[over 1100kg with me in it] which I drove everywhere back then so it had to be streetable,heres the engine combo

It was 2332 with mag case,8mm german head studs,scat 8 dowelled crank,VW flywheel 8 dowelled and lightened,no wedgemate,just a berg gland nut,scat 5/16 bol h beam rods,wisecos in mahle cylinders,FK47 on 108 lobe centers with CB comp eliminators heads[46/38 valves with port n polish]scat 1.4 rockers,10.2/1 compression,berg 1 3/4 header,st 1 kennedy clutch with a 4 puck disc.
Type 1 irs trans with 3.88r&p, 3.78,2.06,1.56,1.12 gearstack with a quaife lsd,944 cvs and "russian made shafts"
I had a WON nitrous system with only one pair of solenoids[mine were mounted up higher for access to the jets],WONnitrous controller and DTA efi.
The engine dynoed at 229 flywheel hp and I ran up to 120/130hp of nitrous on top.
Driving it to the track[about 80miles] fitting phoenix slicks and putting some higher octane fuel in,also stinger instead of muffler it went best 10.88@126[mph could be slightly out]then putting the treads/muffler back on and driving it home,just for reference it went 13.27 best with treads and no gas.
When you get that car sorted it is going to be alot of fun and surprise alot of people


Enjoy it

cheers richie,uk

What surprised me Richie was he actually both finished the car and drove it in pretty quick time LOL.
But seriously, Keith builds my little 1916 and does an awesome job.
I wouldn,t want anyone else doing my engine, he,s damn good.
What are you up to anyway Larry? is it latte time yet? LOL

Cheeers Col

Hi Mike,

Yes, the fuel and nitrous is injected into the manifold individually. And thanks for the comments on the car, i appreciate it.

Ritchie,

The car took way longer to finish than i had hoped, but got there in the end. My engine combo is very similar to the one you posted, albeit alittle tamer.
If i get anywhere near your times i will be stoked. I will be sorting the nitrous this year so i`ll see where it takes me.
Thanks also for the comments on the car, and to you and Mike for taking the time to read the post.

Regards, Keith

keith, putting a post up at 4:38 am , whats the deal, you shouldnt have a prostate problem at your age

stoker wrote:keith, putting a post up at 4:38 am , whats the deal, you shouldnt have a prostate problem at your age

Probably already at work!
That is actually 5.38am in NSW no?
That's morning tea time isn't it?!😂

In QLD it is always morning tea time,
especially when the muffins are on the go!

Dave S,

No, i haven`t any problems - so far, you twisted individual.
As Dave B pointed out it was 5.30 and i was at work. Got to love the waste industry.
And i could have gone some muffins early this morning, only thing open at 5 was a chinese bakery and the 2 curry pies i ate may be upsetting the prostate.

Cheers, Keith

Keith , any news , have be on dyno yet or back to the track ?
Good to look at some of the old threads .

Hi Pete,

Car still here. I haven`t had it to track since Feb last year, work etc seems to get in the way.

But, I have made a few changes to the engine. Dave B ran some intake and exhaust numbers for me to further `optimize`these ares. Anyway I went to a shorter manifold to lower the overall intake length and swapped out exhaust ( Thanks Rod P ) to something very close to the number.

It`s a tight fit against the shroud but gave me alot more room outside to locate the nitrous/fuel solenoids. I can even get the plugs out without manifold removal. A static test has been run with the nitrous to set pressures etc, just waiting for dyno.

Here is how it stands now. Excuse the layer of dust on engine.

Cheers.

time to drag her back out mate.
did you get a better seat.or some neck straps yet.last time i watched you, it looked like you head was about to come off when you take off.

Hi Keith,
What gearbox mounts are you using with the bus box? How is the tin fit? I take it the box is not centred?

Thanks David

Hi David,

I used a Berg solid mount kit. From memory it centred the trans and offset the engine so i cut and shut it to centre the engine and offset the trans.
I will take a shot of it for you this weekend. The tinware fit is like stock. I had to mod the shift rod to suit ( although my car was a semi auto so rod was already modified to suit beetle box, so a standard rod may fit ).

Cheers,
Keith

Not long now Larry😁

Cheers Col

Thanks Keith, Some pics would be great.

Hi David,

Hope these help.

Cheers.

some more

Last one. If you need more let me know.

How did you go at Warwick Keith?

That's cool..... Would love to pilot a street car that does that! 😵‍💫

What tyres were you running there?

Gret shot of an even greater wheelie.

Pretty sure Keith was running slicks.

Very nice 👍👍👍

times and mph ?

Thanks guys.

Dave & Craig,

The best I could manage was 7.8 at just under 88mph with 1.7 60ft. I was givin` the thing what for to. Had the gas with me but didn`t use it, chickened out.

Yes Daimo, MH 26X6 slicks. Think I need a diff, most runs seemed to spin the 1 tyre.

Cheers.

hellbugged wrote:That's cool..... Would love to pilot a street car that does that! 😵‍💫

What tyres were you running there?

Larrys car in the staging lanes.
I have lots of footage and pics to post in time.

Cheers Col

Hi Keith,
How did you go at the VW Shootout; did you give the gas a go?

Call Look sleeper, I think I have some footage of the weapon running, awesome job Keith.