I think I'm about to get crucified here but Im going to ask any way.
My 05upa bug has just had new pistons and barrels fitted and after taking it for a run, the rear beaver panel was really really hot (not to hot to touch but close). Is it normal to expect hotter temps after fitting new piston and barrels (85.5mm)? The engine certainly doesnt smell like its cooking. Maybe its my new Empi semi extractor style muffler or maybe to hot a spark plug? I did change them just before the old engine deteriated badly. And Im running 30w running in oil.
I am missing front and rear cooling tin, and i was missing this before the engine was recoed and i cant say that it was that hot before.
The only major thing that is different from before to now is that the engine has been moved forward 35mm.
Is there something that Im not taking into account here? Do i need the deck lid stand offs? (as an easy fix)
Other than that the car is running much stronger.
mackaymanx ·
'I am missing front and rear cooling tin'
Fix this before anything else
punchbuggyracer ·
does the rear shroud go on before or after the engine is fitted to the gear box?
blutopless2 ·
^^^^ agree.
was told by a mechanic that the rear tinware is really important to shield exhaust heat from recirculating into the engine bay.
Bizarre ·
Punch
rear is rear (as Mr Muir says)
i assume rear shroud you are talking about is the front shroud. The one that goes to the fire wall.
The REAR shroud is VERY important
The front shroud is left by some to assist cooling
Moving the engine forward should give a greater gap between exhaust and vallance.
I would be checking oil temps first though.
Have you jetted it right??
Is it running to lean?
that would cause hot exhaust gasses.
If your car is running stronger then heat is additional.
How hot is the dip stick??
matberry ·
Rear tinware must fitted AND ALL HOLES FILLED!!!!!
punchbuggyracer ·
Im calling the rear the one over the exhaust attached to the rear valance/beaver panel. Is this the Important one?
"Moving the engine forward should give a greater gap between exhaust and vallance." So obviously I need to make my tin ware longer to fill the gap?
"Have you jetted it right??"
"Is it running to lean?"
"that would cause hot exhaust gasses."
Dad checked the carb settings and Timing, said Retardation would cause excessive heat but it all seemed to be fine. Ill check the dipstick temp on the week end, after i attempt to fit the tin ware ( i need to replace the reseal (i forgot again))
I think I'll start with the tin ware. Maybe moving the engine forward has exadurated it or worsened the flow, because it didnt seem to be a problem before.
11CAB ·
Moving the engine forward will also mean there is less clearance between the fan and the firewall..... But definatley you need to have all the tinware fitted to stop the engine overheating.... If the tinware was missing before, that is why you had to do a reco......
matberry ·
Why is the engine foward??
Also check that your firewall insulation isnt restricting air flow. Originally made of a waxed tar paper/cardboard, but as it ages and gets hot, over the years it can sag (usually right into the fan).
punchbuggyracer ·
The fire wall has been moved forward 75mm. I have no insulation I removed all of it.
I moved it forward for better weight disribution and ease of removal. If you want more details see my post in the Bugs section; My not so super super
matberry ·
Should be no prob with the fire wall foward.
O'heating is primarily caused by over advanced ignition not retardation( unless very retarded making little power).
So if timing set (initial and total advance with a timing light), cooling system rectified (tin in place & holes sealed etc) the next area is compression ratio, but this can only be checked or remidied by disassembling the top end of your engine.
punchbuggyracer ·
I think compression ratio should be fine. The piston I bought have the dished tops, but having said that I didnt check to see if there was a difference in the gudgeon pin height.
The tinware is nearly back in, hopefully tomorrow night
punchbuggyracer ·
I fixed the shroud and double checked everything, was still causing lots of heat decided to drive it any way, because i though maybe it was the exhaust system.
5min down the road when off throttle on the high way the oil light comes on. Then it comes on continuous throttle and only goes out while accelerating. Then It decides to stay on.
I pull over and Dad comes tows me home again.
Would a bad oil pump cause it to heat up?
Im so frusterated with this car. I felt like burning it, on Saturday and calling it quits. Maybe i will put a subie in it!
Bizarre ·
If the oil aint going round it could/would cause it to heat up as it aint getting cooled
Sounds like you have a blockage in the oil passage somewhere??
It sounds like a strip down to be if the oil light is coming on and staying on
punchbuggyracer ·
so not a stuffed pump?
Bizarre ·
Could be.??
Why do you suspect the pump??
Did you change it??
Do you have a oil pressure gauge in there??
Did you split the case when you rebuilt it??
or just a top end rebuild??
punchbuggyracer ·
just a top end rebuild, i have not split the case. no I only have the switch, but i have one i could hook up.
I suspect it becase it leaks and when i first hooked up the switch it the light has come on at slow reves, as soon as you rev it, it goes off.
As Soon as the engine is about to die it comes on. When it's searching (reving up and down) it goes on and off with the revs up and down.
Bizarre ·
Tough call mate
AT THE VERY LEAST i would be dropping the oil and having a look what at what comes out and taking the cover off the oil pump and looking for wear marks.
I would also be putting that oil pressure gauge on when you fire it back up.
Get a few more opinions before you go starting that motor back up though
MickH ·
1.Get rid of the "running in "oil and put some real oil in it.
2. Check you relief valves. Is it a dual relief case?? One of the pistons might be stuck,giving you higher temperatures (cooler bypass) or lower oil pressure.
3.Check the timing at total advance...too much advance will make the engine too hot fairly quickly.Set it to around 30 degrees maximum.
Good luck !!!!👍
punchbuggyracer ·
Yes it is a dual relief case, i cant undo the one at the gear box end, the normal one was fine.
there were wear marks on the oil pump cover, the lower gear has worn into the cover.
The first time i dumped the oil there was white metal from a busted big end (which i replaced and have always been wiery about, there wear marks in the crank which we tried to fix) other than that there was rust, brown crud, yellow crud, white crud maybe mud. I dumped that after runnig it hot the first time, The Oil is a "nice" metallic would look good as a paint job. The second dump i havent had a chance to get the strainer out yet but it also was metallic.
I have a new 32mm oil pump with cartridge to go in, but I couldnt get the old one out.
I'm all out of running in oil and I wont be buying any more.
I will check the timing once its back in, I now have a nice new shiny alumnium pulley (not a power pulley) so i can accuratly do the timing.
Adsman ·
I agree with Mick Get rid of that running in oil!!! Running in oil is used to wear in a motor and wear equals friction, friction equals heat. Also be careful with the advance, a lower temp spark plug will allow a bit more advance but it still generates extra heat. When increasing the advance is also a good idea to add some octane boost as advance will start the combustion process earlier and therefore will need good fuel/octance level to prevent a lean fuel situation at by the end of the combustion cycle.
matberry ·
If the running in oil is a known brand, I would say, oil good-engine bad!
The metalic oil, blown big end, marks on the crank and oil pump cover are the give aways! Sorry if I'm too blunt.
Lack of oil pressure usually caused by
-excessive wear in main and big end bearings
- " " " case mating surfaces
- " " " oil pump
The oil pump with filter is a questionable product.
Berg certainly doesn't recommend them; oil passages not large enough for full volume of oil to flow thru.
Cheers
Matt
punchbuggyracer ·
once i fit this new pump thats my last go at this engine. the oil was an australian made cheap one, i cant remember the name off hand, probably noname, i never intended to run it for more than 100km. but its all gone now. and ive only done about 7km.
the 1835 is looking very atractive right now. Its had a siezed piston from siting in the whether thou.
If only my wife would let me get a loan.......
punchbuggyracer ·
The pump did look worn Ive taken some bad photos but basically there was 1/2mm worn off the corners and some were on the cover from the lower gear.
The new pump, Ive been told that its probably not the best but surely its better than no filter at all? Yes or No?
matberry ·
Wear at drive end wont effect pump operation.
Wear on cover, in housing or gears will effect operation.
Also (probably most common fault) incorrect gasket. Should be very thin paper. VERY thin, like a cigarette paper ( max ).
VWCOOL ·
punchbuggyracer wrote:I fixed the shroud and double checked everything, was still causing lots of heat decided to drive it any way, because i though maybe it was the exhaust system.
5min down the road when off throttle on the high way the oil light comes on. Then it comes on continuous throttle and only goes out while accelerating. Then It decides to stay on.
I pull over and Dad comes tows me home again.
Would a bad oil pump cause it to heat up?
Im so frusterated with this car. I felt like burning it, on Saturday and calling it quits. Maybe i will put a subie in it!
Umm... if you can't work out a simple VW engine you won't have a HOPE with a Subie
punchbuggyracer ·
I removed the front bypass last night it seemed fine. By the way the new pump and filter is full flow and excepts a z9 filter.
Ill be firing it up on the week end, fingers crossed that all goes well.
punchbuggyracer ·
After reading a performance book, I dont think the pump is full flow. So it is possibly slightly restrictive (please note this wasnt on the car previously and I havent yet run it on the car)
The oil I was using was Gulf Western 30W. Also after reading the Performance book I now have an understanding as to how the bypass works.
After the "engine" heats up the oil "loses" pressure and is then routed through the cooler.
Im assuming that as the oil heats up it "thins" out thus losing pressure and going through the cooler.
Is it possible that because the oil I used was single weight the pressure never dropped and continually bypassed the cooler?