i have a 1776 in the back of my 1960 baja and its just not doing it for me. so i was planing to build a bigger motor but then i got thinking,mayeb its in my btter intrest to change totaly so, ...... here's the million buck question, what would be a better engine to go for? i know everyone has different opions but i want to hear fors and againts for all. i am not intrested in going 200k's an hour but it will spend a huge amount of time offroad and it has to be able to tow the tralier with the three motox bikes with out a real drama.
I am not intrested in a slanging match just the know how of peopel who have all the differnt ennges fitted and the good/bad parts of doing it.
one other thing is and i will have to goto main roads but what would be the bigest size i can goto in the bug? its a 12/60 build with wide 5 drums all round. i can guess that with any engine upgrade i will need to upgrade the brakes to disc but is there anythign else to bear in mind?
thanks people..
steff...................................
kevo ·
suba.
injected so you never have to tune it.
easy bolt on wiring looms.
bolt in conversion.
dont have to fix it barely ever.
dont get anything as old as the v8 i bolted in mine... i dont want anyone else going through this shit fight.
baybuscamperkid ·
yeah, a largish capicity (2.2, 2.4) subi non turbo sounds like a good bet.
kroozzn63 ·
yeah mate all things said and done being a baja easy access and easier fit of any motor id say subi power, easy maitenance "no" except oil etc and thats coming from me with a type 1 efi turbo in mine
gazman ·
Yeah, as much as I hate doing the same thing as everybody else (I like my cars to be different), I'd have to agree that an efi subie motor is the way to go for an easy, reliable and powerful engine swap.
DubCrazy ·
pretty much what everyone is saying for cheap reliable power.... so its scoody do time for me... thxs fellas....
steff.........................
THUDKNUCKLE ·
agreed subi ,, how about a h6 engine ?? not sure on legalities but they are an inline 6 ,, there was one on ebay not all that long ago pretty cheap ,,,,,
one4 ·
THUDKNUCKLE wrote:agreed subi ,, how about a h6 engine ?? not sure on legalities but they are an inline 6 ,, there was one on ebay not all that long ago pretty cheap ,,,,,
Aren't they a flat 6. 3.0L horizontally opposed Boxer engine?
Richard
VWCOOL ·
DubCrazy wrote:pretty much what everyone is saying for cheap reliable power.... so its scoody do time for me... thxs fellas....
steff.........................
You might want to re-think the word 'cheap'. There's lots of extra things required for a Subie and the bux add up...
DubCrazy ·
i know when i say cheap its not *cheap* but compaired to building a 2.3 thats going to take the thrashing i give it and suply me with a/c (at some point) i think the subaru will offer a more cost affective power plant over the vw engine. dont get me wrong the 1776 i have will most likly last forever i just want more and more costs big and reliability goes down .
cheers...
steff.......................
Craig Torrens ·
what about a 2.5lt V6 like Wes ?
VWCOOL ·
DubCrazy wrote:i know when i say cheap its not *cheap* but compaired to building a 2.3 thats going to take the thrashing i give it and suply me with a/c (at some point) i think the subaru will offer a more cost affective power plant over the vw engine. dont get me wrong the 1776 i have will most likly last forever i just want more and more costs big and reliability goes down .
cheers...
steff.......................
cool. Some people seem to think they can buy a Subie halfcut for $2K and have it in the car for another $2K...
Baja Wes ·
VWCOOL wrote:cool. Some people seem to think they can buy a Subie halfcut for $2K and have it in the car for another $2K...
You can if you know what your doing and can do all / most of the work yourself.
The V6 is fanastic, but it's not for the beginner. There is a lot more support for the suby and suby conversion parts out there.
DubCrazy ·
Craig Torrens wrote:what about a 2.5lt V6 like Wes ?
would love something like that but i dont have the time with this one to work out the ins and outs of the conversion, the subi has much more info and would be an easier option for now.
I am new to the whole converting option, up untill now i have always been a purist as regards to then engine but need must and the thought of a bug with a/c is to great ... i have been in the motor trade for the best part of 20 years so the cost will be kept down by myself doing the most parts and mates from the trade helping with stuff i have no idea about....
cheers..
steff............................
Craig Torrens ·
honda S2000 vtec motor 👍
rocknrob ·
Was talking to john sherman today and he is doing a conversion kit for a customer who is putting an alfasud engine in a beach buggy. It will be stroked up over 2 litres and turbo charged...should sound nice🤪
THUDKNUCKLE ·
some vtecs spin in the opposite direction ( or all of them ?? not sure ) but it leads to the possobility of using a differant transacxkle setup ,, maybe a subi box mated to a vtec ,,,,, but vtec certaily isnt cheap specially s2000 engines
DubCrazy ·
hey thud you have a rota in your baja right? hows does it go? i mean i know the rotas go hard when on the boil but the low down powers a bit slack and for off road it would be like a 2 stroke motox bike always having to keep it in the high revs. i only ask as i was offered a complete set up 12a or 13b with everything needed to do for a cheap price but a fair few warned me off with the low down power issues.... intrested to hear how it goes with someone who has it fitted..
cheers..
steff...........................
Rota_Motor ·
honda motors do spin 'backwards' but only if they are a 4 cylinder, before the current generation (about 2000/2001) I was working at a honda dealer around then, V6's like the accord etc. spin normally, as does the S2000 engine. not that this would be an issue if using a VW transaxle, as my understanding is the diff centre can be flipped over (as done for formula Vee) to get the axles spinning the opposite direction 🙂
and I was reading this thread, thinking what else could be done apart from a subi motor, and wasnt going to suggest a rotor. but since you asked...
if you keep it standard, or relatively, especiallyu in regards to porting and induction, it will have nice, usable power down low, especially compared to a type 1, I'm planning on fitting a 13B N/A to the spare type 3, because I bvelieve it will walk all over anything for a similar price (mainly because I have one in the shed) but for real good lowdown torque, get a turbo rotor, with again, a standard sized turbo that will spool early, and it will be more than enough in a baja IMO.
depends what you want, if you want to go the whole hog and injection etc. I'd go for the subaru engine, or 12A/13B turbo, or if you want to keep it naturally aspirated, the 13B sixport found in 86-92 RX-7s should offer good driveability, SR20 turbo nissan I believe is also a very torquey unit with good turbo selection with lots of aftermarket support (maybe not for the conversion)
but if you want to keep it simple, dizzy and carby, 13B is a good cheap engine, or an old nissan L18/20, or even a 2.6 litre sigma engine - can be built and not va nice engine but torque is always there.
gazman ·
yeah, 13b sixport would go real nice as well, i had one in a S3 RX7 and that car could fly. RX7's are heavier than they look (especially S4/5) and if a rotary can make them go fast it would have no probs pushing a baja.
THUDKNUCKLE ·
lol as said before yes rotaries do lack bottom punch but no where near what ppl may think ,, and this is compared to what ?? ,, it also depends on what rota you chose and go with ,, for instance i went with a hybrid set up using a mixeture of series 5 turbo and series 4 non turbo gear ,, along with a very large extended port .. this engine is in its peak between 3500 - to say 7500 even though it will rev out past that .. i run a standard ratio 6 rib box with 31 x 11.5 mudders on the back and it will cruise around the streets at 60 in 4th all day long and up most hills ,,, not all but most .. all in all i find it to be a very drivable and extremely FUN car and engine to play with ,, but it does get expensive when dealing with rotaries
the conversion has cost alot more then i would have ever expected from extra parts needed that you wouldnt need on other piston engines ,,, such as good quality stainless steel baffles or mufflers ( cheap ones will last a few weeks ) a microtech system if goin injected due to the the standard computer liking to have the whoel instrumewnt cluster from a mazda in teh car ect ect ....
its all about what you like ,, what you can afford ,, what you plan on doin with it
THUDKNUCKLE ·
oh yeah and due to the addd epenses and troubles trying to keep the car quiet for road use ( still reads 91 at idle with 2 baffles and a stainless cat ) my current project steers well clear of the rotaries even though i love the concept , there feel ,, and their sound
Rota_Motor ·
I have to disagree with ancilliaries for a rotor costing more.
If you try to do a conversion on anything with similar power, you will want good quality mufflers anyway, I would personally go for a RotaFlo resonator and muffler, which should give a legal level.
as for engine management, to get the most out of any engine, you'll want an aftermarket system, and I have seen several rotors run off a few hundred dollars worth of secondhand ECU's, and while not as good as the new big dollar items, they still work.
not necessarily trying to make you go rotor, but you want to be informed before making a choice, if you want to learn more, go to www.ausrotary.com and have a look around.
Baja Wes ·
I've been in a lot of converted VW's. Thud's rotary, Mick's EJ22 Manx, Terry's EJ22 Baja, the EJ22 Iguana, Brad's EJ20T Baja, Lots of VW engined Baja's and Buggies and of course my V6 Baja.
Smoothness - the V6 wins hands down, nothing comes close. It is vibration free (you get a little with the suby and rotary) and it's power curve is so smooth.
Low down torque - the V6 wins again, I can drive at 1000-1500rpm up hills if I like (even as low as 600rpm on smaller hills). The EJ20T did make suprisingly good torque low down as the turbo kicked in, but it was also difficult to control as it did kick in. If you tried to lug up something it would have nothing at first, and then you'd squeeze the throttle a little bit more and the turbo would kick in, then it would want to accelerate. It made slow speed offroading difficult. The EJ22's were pretty good, not as torque as the V6 but way better than a VW engine. I don't have a good comparison with Thud's car here, I never went for a ride when he tried to see how slow he could go up a hill.
Noise quantity - The V6 is suprisingly quiet. I am only running a 12yr old 2" turbo muffler, and my car is pretty quiet. Thud's car is louder and has way more exhaust on it. The EJ20T is pretty quiet because of the turbo. The EJ22's are somewhere in between, probably not far off the V6 if both had the same exhausts.
Noise quality - Now this is very subjective. Personally, I hate the rotary sound. I love the V6, it sounds awesome to me. The EJ20T sounds cool when driving as you hear the turbo spool. The EJ22 doesn't sound much different to a worked VW motor really.
Top end power - This is probably a close battle between the V6, the Rotary and the EJ20T. The rotary probably being the most powerful in the current state of tune of the 3 cars. The difference is the EJ20T can have the boost wound up and then it would be the clear winner. The thing I don't like about the EJ20T (and the EJ22's) is they don't rev high. The EJ20T you really get the feeling that it's just coming on boost and starting to come alive and then you need to change gear again. This is where the V6 and the Rotary are more "fun" to drive. They both build in power as the revs get higher, encouraging you to rev them more and enjoy the sounds and power that comes with it. My V6 revs to nearly 8000rpm, and does it happily and easily. The rotary is pretty similar in this respect.
ease of fitment - Here the EJ22 is the clear winner. I guess the EJ20T is probably close behind if you don't mind a bit of firewall cutting. The rotary would probably be next, and I am sure the V6 would be the most difficult, requiring the most modification.
Gearbox friendliness - I think it's fair to say the EJ20T is pretty bad in this respect. The way the boost comes on and requires a more aggressive offroad driving style leads to a harder life for the gearbox. Brad's Baja destroyed a lot of gearbox parts in a short period. I think Thud had some gearbox issues with his rotary to start with, but I think it's been better lately (you can say otherwise James). The EJ22's seem to be happy with the kombi gearboxes, and my V6 has been fine with my 2L kombi box for the last 4 yrs. I think the V6 will be quite good because it's so smooth you don't need to trash it.
cost - The EJ22 would be the cheapest. Next is hard to say. It's probably a toss up as to what you can find as a good price.
Regarding ECU, I recommend staying with the original ECU if at all possible. You'd be suprised how much it does and how failure proof it makes the engine. My V6 ecu is very smart and has a large range of limp-home type facilities. If one sensor fails it generally has a second sensor somewhere else that it can use to keep the engine running. From a modification approval point of view the original ECU is the best option. Technically you can't use an aftermarket ECU unless you have the finished program and vehicle emissions tested. Sticking with the original ECU will be the cheapest option. If you are planning big engine modifications then you need an aftermarket ECU, but perhaps then you should decide if you should have just went for the more powerful engine option in the first place.
mattie182 ·
steff, I think you are gunna have to come to rocky, I can take you for a drive in the EJ buggy, and go for an offroad............
An EJ22 would be the best option
mat
Dero ·
Baja Wes wrote:Gearbox friendliness - I think it's fair to say the EJ20T is pretty bad in this respect. The way the boost comes on and requires a more aggressive offroad driving style leads to a harder life for the gearbox. Brad's Baja destroyed a lot of gearbox parts in a short period. I think Thud had some gearbox issues with his rotary to start with, but I think it's been better lately (you can say otherwise James). The EJ22's seem to be happy with the kombi gearboxes, and my V6 has been fine with my 2L kombi box for the last 4 yrs. I think the V6 will be quite good because it's so smooth you don't need to trash it.
Out of interest, really for my project coming up... what gearbox's was/ is Buggy Brad running with the EJ20T Baja, im guessing Kombi's. This is what I plan to use a 2ltr is worth paying the price beefing it up... or if driven half resposiably (probably more difficult then said) just keep it stock...
But yeah Turbo's can be fairly hard on really any box, with the aggressive power torque curve...
Cheers
Joel
THUDKNUCKLE ·
great stuff wes sounds all pretty good to me although yea the sound is an aqquried taste. if you go turbo rotor then noise issues will be no problems ( as for leagalities),, but as it stands trying to keep my baja quiet and keep the exhaust fitting under the back cage really has been a problem that ideas were worked on by not only myself but tony down at mr rotaries and the fellas out at phill rotaries ,, the solution that we came up with was using two inline baffles and a stainless cat ,, baffles came in at 245$ each + the cat + the work tryign to fit it all in . ,,
what about thinking out of the square again ?? anybody have thoughts on toyota inline 4's ,, they build dsome pretty tough engines and are very popular in alot of kit cars . maybe something like a Toyota 4vzfe quad cam 2.5 litre engine .. ?? just some thoughts or maybe even a bigger displacemnt subi over the turbo set up
MickH ·
mattie182 wrote:steff, I think you are gunna have to come to rocky, I can take you for a drive in the EJ buggy, and go for an offroad............
An EJ22 would be the best option
mat
OR you could all pay me a visit and make a weekend of it.....my new rear tyres need a workout....
Baja Wes ·
Brad's baja had a 2L kombi with Albins gears and everything. The previous own did trash the thing though. It also ran 33" rears I think, which put extra strain on everything.
Baja Wes ·
I should also mention that when I say V6 I mean the V6 in my car specifically (Mazda KLZE). A commodore V6 is a pile of crap as far as I am concerned, they have torque but they don't sound as good, or rev happily and aren't as smooth.
I am in Canada at the moment and I have a Pontiac Grand Prix hire car. It's got a 3.8L V6 like the old commodore motor, but it's front wheel drive. It's got a lot of torque and power, but it's not a refined engine. Front wheel drive and 3.8L is a silly combination too!
[ Edited on 25-9-2007 by Baja Wes ]
Dero ·
Talking of V6's and talk the Magna one in the mid 90's I think is 3L or something, my bro had one, stuff all bottem end, used to stall the bugger all the time... I wouldnt reccomend one of these.
Baja Wes how was the EJ20T Baja, with the Albins gears... did it still have gearbox troubles?
Exatly what sort of work was in the Gearbox (Hope Im not hijacking the thread here 🙄 )
Cheers
[ Edited on 25/9/2007 by Dero ]
ryfoz ·
Slip in a toyota/lexus V8.
No other option 👍
DubCrazy ·
i was leaning towards the subaru as i am not a fan of the rota sound but i was thinking a ej 20 but from what your all saying a ej22 would be much better......
mattie yea i do need to come up but i need to get the irs in the back first, i have snaped two shafts on the swinger so its getting urgent. i must give u call and work out when u will have your jig back as i hope to have all the parts need to do the conversion in the next couple of weeks.
to everyone who has given there opions , thank you, its helped and pointed me to a different angle that should work quite well for my needs😎
steff............................................
pete wood ·
ej22 = :bounce
cheap, reliable and you have local people to help you. 👍
Brad ·
mm interesting thread.
For what you want the EJ22 wins hands down no doubt, you can argue others but with your description the EJ 22 is the best engine of all.
The EJ20T in my baja did eat gearbox's but it was through previous abuse more than failure. The previous owner had given it some love and the Albins gears held up for 7 years of 6-7000 rpm side steps and launches. With 33" tyres that is a lot to ask. I came in on the ass end and every gear I broke when x-rayed wall full of cracks.
If you want a hassle free, easy to work on and reliable engine and don't feel the need to re-invent the wheel then the EJ 22 is the pick, it even fits in the Baja without cutting anything and all the parts you need are off the shelf or there are enough pics and info about to copy.
With the new ECU display you even know what is going on with the factory ECU which takes a lot of the guess work out of it.
one4 ·
Buggy Brad wrote:With the new ECU display you even know what is going on with the factory ECU which takes a lot of the guess work out of it.
Nice plug. 😀
That display anyway, can you find problems with the ignition to the on position or does it only work when the car is running?
Richard
Dero ·
Cheers for that Info Brad
Its a little shame Im now stuck with an EJ20T 😉 hehe. As for abuse well I am fairly prone to some crazy 🤪 driving, I guess I better save some pounds for a nice gearbox...
And that display thingo is nice, you got some fairly clever people there at COR...
Righto
Joel
helmut ·
2wheel drive/1 wheel drive (not lock differential) + buggy/baja = not go slow on up hill on the off road
Dero ·
helmut wrote:2wheel drive/1 wheel drive (not lock differential) + buggy/baja = not go slow on up hill on the off road
Only if one wheel loses traction... I have seen some diff lockers where diff lockers that replace the spider gears and undler and load lock up I think they are called Lockrights or something. My mate had one in his MQ Patrol, they are OK for road use but not ideal, sorta clunk through corners then if you put the boot in locks right up. Interesting in the wet 🤪 but some people go for that.
Anyway only slightly off topic, sorry all :duh
[ Edited on 28/9/2007 by Dero ]
helmut ·
Baja Wes wrote:I've been in a lot of converted VW's. Thud's rotary, Mick's EJ22 Manx, Terry's EJ22 Baja, the EJ22 Iguana, Brad's EJ20T Baja, Lots of VW engined Baja's and Buggies and of course my V6 Baja.
Smoothness - the V6 wins hands down, nothing comes close. It is vibration free (you get a little with the suby and rotary) and it's power curve is so smooth.
Low down torque - the V6 wins again, I can drive at 1000-1500rpm up hills if I like (even as low as 600rpm on smaller hills). The EJ20T did make suprisingly good torque low down as the turbo kicked in, but it was also difficult to control as it did kick in. If you tried to lug up something it would have nothing at first, and then you'd squeeze the throttle a little bit more and the turbo would kick in, then it would want to accelerate. It made slow speed offroading difficult. The EJ22's were pretty good, not as torque as the V6 but way better than a VW engine. I don't have a good comparison with Thud's car here, I never went for a ride when he tried to see how slow he could go up a hill.
see bold to link it my above not off topic 🤪
quote
"2wheel drive/1 wheel drive (not lock differential) + buggy/baja = not go slow on up hill on the off road"
[ Edited on 28-9-2007 by helmut ]
helmut ·
lockrite in buggy/baja = 👎👎👎 to many understeer
Dero ·
I was mainly refering to my post in regards to the off topic...
Though not quite sure if I would agree with the Understeer, 200+ Hp plus loose surface plus a locker.... 🤪
What are other peoples thoughts on the locker, I certainly do not have any experince it both an alternative motor to the Standard Beetle, plus lockers!!
I can only really speak for what I think, I could be completely wrong!!!
Friday Arvo, been to the Pub.... :duh
Baja Wes ·
helmut wrote:see bold to link it my above not off topic 🤪
quote
"2wheel drive/1 wheel drive (not lock differential) + buggy/baja = not go slow on up hill on the off road"
You need to come for a drive in my car before you can comment on what it is or is not capable of.
The extra weight of the V6 gives it very impressive traction offroad. Up most offroad hills I am capable of going as slow as a 4wd. Only very loose and very steep hills require a more aggressive approach, as they do in a 4wd too.
You can see in this vid I can take a lot calmer approach then the others, although this was timed runs so I was trying not to go too slow. You can also see the difference of the different engine types, as the cars discussed above are in this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTWqECoYYv8
The first half of this hill I was pretty low in the rev range, it's only when it got really steep and twisty at the top that I had to flatten the throttle. A Landcruiser ute had just prior had several attempts at this hill at speed and not made it at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV5YHOxquZA
helmut ·
Baja Wes wrote:
helmut wrote:see bold to link it my above not off topic 🤪
quote
"2wheel drive/1 wheel drive (not lock differential) + buggy/baja = not go slow on up hill on the off road"
You need to come for a drive in my car before you can comment on what it is or is not capable of.
The extra weight of the V6 gives it very impressive traction offroad. Up most offroad hills I am capable of going as slow as a 4wd. Only very loose and very steep hills require a more aggressive approach, as they do in a 4wd too.
You can see in this vid I can take a lot calmer approach then the others, although this was timed runs so I was trying not to go too slow. You can also see the difference of the different engine types, as the cars discussed above are in this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTWqECoYYv8
The first half of this hill I was pretty low in the rev range, it's only when it got really steep and twisty at the top that I had to flatten the throttle. A Landcruiser ute had just prior had several attempts at this hill at speed and not made it at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV5YHOxquZA
i engineer i from iceland many 4x4 i live in utah moab usa 5 years many hour in vw's i have many friend owning vw with MANY modification vw chevy toyota mazda honda nissan subaru rotary motors i love it i have very nice idea of your car i very like it :thumb i am also owning toyota modified 4x4 you cannot go slow like me 🙅🙅 or nice modifed 4x4 you cannot climb like me your car is very nice but your very low modify vw will not be rock and trail climbing🙅🙅🙅
Quote"Up most offroad hills I am capable of going as slow as a 4wd."
i am think you need to ride in modified 4x4
i am love it vw very much is very very good on the offroad
but not for this practice
[ Edited on 29-9-2007 by helmut ]
helmut ·
Buggy Brad wrote:mm interesting thread.
For what you want the EJ22 wins hands down no doubt, you can argue others but with your description the EJ 22 is the best engine of all.
If you want a hassle free, easy to work on and reliable engine and don't feel the need to re-invent the wheel then the EJ 22 is the pick, it even fits in the Baja without cutting anything and all the parts you need are off the shelf or there are enough pics and info about to copy.
With the new ECU display you even know what is going on with the factory ECU which takes a lot of the guess work out of it.
i think like this is best for you:thumb
Baja Wes ·
helmut wrote:you cannot go slow like me 🙅🙅 or nice modifed 4x4 you cannot climb like me your car is very nice but your very low modify vw will not be rock and trail climbing🙅🙅🙅
Quote"Up most offroad hills I am capable of going as slow as a 4wd."
i am think you need to ride in modified 4x4
i am love it vw very much is very very good on the offroad
but not for this practice
I never said my car was a rock crawler, and I didn't compare it to a modified 4wd. Everything is relative I guess.
What I was saying is that on normal hills, that a normal 4wd would travel on, I can go slow like a normal 4wd. I can go 1000-1500rpm like I said. 🙂
I said that on steeper hills I need more speed, but so would a normal 4wd.
Rock crawlers with 44inch tyres are awesome, and I'd never compare my car to one of those. In Australia they are completely illegal so not really a good comparison for a road legal Baja anyway.
:thumb
aussiebaja ·
why not just go for a 2ltr vw motor and have it ported and stuff like that ,it would be a lot easier and a lot less mods to the car ,but thats just my idea ,or just wack in a porshe v6
[ Edited on 1-10-2007 by aussiebaja ]
Baja Wes ·
Because carbs suck offroad, so for the type IV to be remotely useful it either has to be the EFI version or you need to put EFI on it. Even then it won't be as reliable or have the power of a suby motor. I had a 1916cc type 1 with twin 44idf webers and lots of other mods, and it doesn't compare to my V6 at all. You'll find a lot of the EJ22 guys have tried type 4's before wanting more and going suby.
Do you mean Porsche flat 6? Price one of those and you will see why people don't use them. Also price some spares for a rebuild.
Brad ·
After running an EJ 22 at Warwick on the weekend and flogging the crap out of it the old EJ22 has once again proven to be an awesome engine. Yeah we broke some axles but you get that, the engine and 2L box held up just fine.
As for modfied 4WD's .. lets see your rock crawler do 100kmph up the beach .. no hope, most of them can't even do the speed limit. That an the fact down here in Australia we have these thing called ADR's and rego rules which stop us even thinking of driving something like that on the road. I have 35" on my 40 series and the RTA don't like it ....
helmut ·
helmut wrote:2wheel drive/1 wheel drive (not lock differential) + buggy/baja = not go slow on up hill on the off road
= true:P
needs momentum
old porsche in buggy very good
[ Edited on 2-10-2007 by helmut ]
helmut ·
As for modfied 4WD's .. lets see your rock crawler do 100kmph up the beach .. no hope, most of them can't even do the speed limit.
i am change ratio very easy 100kph no problem:thumb
=i am going up beach are you going up here??
[ Edited on 2-10-2007 by helmut ]
blutopless2 ·
one4 wrote:
THUDKNUCKLE wrote:agreed subi ,, how about a h6 engine ?? not sure on legalities but they are an inline 6 ,, there was one on ebay not all that long ago pretty cheap ,,,,,
Aren't they a flat 6. 3.0L horizontally opposed Boxer engine?
Richard
yes... horizontally opposed "boxer" engine.
Brad ·
helmut wrote:
As for modfied 4WD's .. lets see your rock crawler do 100kmph up the beach .. no hope, most of them can't even do the speed limit.
i am change ratio very easy 100kph no problem:thumb
=i am going up beach are you going up here??
[ Edited on 2-10-2007 by helmut ]
change ratios easily ?? I think not..... explain ?
I can go up there I have a winch too
one4 ·
blutopless2 wrote:
one4 wrote:
THUDKNUCKLE wrote:agreed subi ,, how about a h6 engine ?? not sure on legalities but they are an inline 6 ,, there was one on ebay not all that long ago pretty cheap ,,,,,
Aren't they a flat 6. 3.0L horizontally opposed Boxer engine?
Richard
yes... horizontally opposed "boxer" engine.
Haha didn't even notice that.
Boxster engine. 😀
Richard
helmut ·
Buggy Brad wrote:
helmut wrote:
As for modfied 4WD's .. lets see your rock crawler do 100kmph up the beach .. no hope, most of them can't even do the speed limit.
i am change ratio very easy 100kph no problem:thumb
=i am going up beach are you going up here??
[ Edited on 2-10-2007 by helmut ]
change ratios easily ?? I think not..... explain ?
I can go up there I have a winch too
i am change diff center rear you have longer cable in winch🙅
DubCrazy ·
ok its final i am going to go with a EJ22, thank you for any advice given as i was thinking a Ej20. now to track one down and start to gather all the parts needed to do the job.
I collect all the irs gear i need this weekend so that will be done in the next few weeks (i hope) then if it takes a while to gather all the parts so be it i will continue to use the 1776 till i am ready.
cheers people your input has been most helpfull even the rock crawling man if nothing else but for entertainment :P
steff..............................
[ Edited on 2-10-07 by DubCrazy ]
Brad ·
helmut wrote:
Buggy Brad wrote:
helmut wrote:
As for modfied 4WD's .. lets see your rock crawler do 100kmph up the beach .. no hope, most of them can't even do the speed limit.
i am change ratio very easy 100kph no problem:thumb
=i am going up beach are you going up here??
[ Edited on 2-10-2007 by helmut ]
change ratios easily ?? I think not..... explain ?
I can go up there I have a winch too
i am change diff center rear you have longer cable in winch🙅
I dunno what planet you are on but changing out diff centres is hardly what I would call very easy and is gunna take some time. Not sure whay your Rock Rig is based on but it is still gunna take you a few hours to do it then he $$$$ ties up in having locked multiple locked centres.
I have plenty of cable on my winch, you get that with a PTO.
helmut ·
i know no-one in world is climb in the vw:duh winch or not (pto winch in vw really???:blush) at top of hill you have shackel and front end suspension only:P
only i do it one diff center back remove front driveshaft 2wd on beach when you play rock climb diff center change is like change underpants
but point is missing...
vw cannot go slow up the hill on the offroad because is only 1 wheel drive and not many wheel travel but is very fun to go fast with the independent suspension and direct in the steering and light
also..
do not be forgeting modifying is sliping slope start with brake then suspension... gearbox.... fuel systems...motor.... axle.... cv...????....?????=time and $$$$
enjoy it:thumb:thumb
[ Edited on 2-10-2007 by helmut ]
Craig Torrens ·
Go the subaru 👍
(Although all the conversions I have been in/seen have overheating problems, computer problems, are not that quick and have always doubled the initial $$ budgets for installation.)
As for getting your parts etc............go to Custom Offroad, they can deliver everything you need. 👍
Brad ·
helmut wrote:i know no-one in world is climb in the vw:duh winch or not (pto in vw:blush) at top of hill you have shackel and front end suspension only:P
only i do it one diff center back remove front driveshaft 2wd on beach when you play rock climb diff center change is like change underpants
but point is missing...
vw cannot go slow up the hill on the offroad because is only 1 wheel drive and not many wheel travel but is very fun to go fast with the independent suspension and direct in the steering and light
also..
do not be forgeting modifying is sliping slope start with brake then suspension... gearbox.... fuel systems...motor.... axle.... cv...????....?????=time and $$$$
enjoy it:thumb:thumb
[ Edited on 2-10-2007 by helmut ]
Dude your english is as bad as your clue...... so I am not going to waste my time argueing with you about something you don't seem to understand.
So enjoy your 2 wheel drive rock crawler on the beach...
As for the engine, you will be very happy with your EJ22 direction.
helmut ·
Buggy Brad wrote:
helmut wrote:i know no-one in world is climb in the vw:duh winch or not (pto in vw:blush) at top of hill you have shackel and front end suspension only:P
only i do it one diff center back remove front driveshaft 2wd on beach when you play rock climb diff center change is like change underpants
but point is missing...
vw cannot go slow up the hill on the offroad because is only 1 wheel drive and not many wheel travel but is very fun to go fast with the independent suspension and direct in the steering and light
also..
do not be forgeting modifying is sliping slope start with brake then suspension... gearbox.... fuel systems...motor.... axle.... cv...????....?????=time and $$$$
enjoy it:thumb:thumb
[ Edited on 2-10-2007 by helmut ]
Dude your english is as bad as your clue...... so I am not going to waste my time argueing with you about something you don't seem to understand.
So enjoy your 2 wheel drive rock crawler on the beach...
As for the engine, you will be very happy with your EJ22 direction.
are you speaking icelandic i am also speaking norwiegan finish estonian russian and little french sorry my english is not so good
i am not changing diff center for 2wd
i am living a very far from beach my point is being i can go 100kph very easy if i need it to
i am sorry
we are not getting upset and argue we are learning and sharing
pls what is it im not understand maybe it is language problem i canot explain to you it properly
pto in vw🙅??? really?? how this is working????
[ Edited on 4-10-2007 by helmut ]
Craig Torrens ·
I understand your english :thumb
helmut ·
thank you
aussiebaja ·
dont worry helmut ,they just carry on like that when there got nothin better to say 😁😁
Rota_Motor ·
can I ask a real silly question, why is it everyone is saying how much better an EJ22 is over an EJ20 or even EJ20T, but no-one has said a word about using an EJ25??
is it a power to weight ratio issue that you cant use a 25 or turbo?? (I can understand offroading you want response, so turbo lag is bad but bigger cubes dont have lag 🙂)
ElusiveStranger ·
@ Rotamotor:
Define offroad 😉 *dons flameproof suit* I've just seen two totally conflicting views - both correct IMHO.
Off road in the UK generally means parking on the pavement (sidewalk)
The EJ20 is a nice strong motor, the UK spec (where I am) has the same horses as the EJ22 if the EJ20s from an Impreza Sport.
The power delivery is nice, strong but gradual ie just keeps picking up
The EJ25 is meant to be a good motor but can be prone to headgasket failure and overheating.
But (these are my own mumblings) at the price it costs to buy one from a scrapyard - they're disposable in comparison to a similar powered AC VW
Baja Wes ·
The type of offroading we are talking about is shown in those manxclub videos. We aren't rock crawling, we are driving on dirt tracks in the Australian bush, or driving up the beach.
The EJ22 is easy to come by cheaply, and comes in a SOHC configuration. This makes it a lot easier to fit than the DOHC EJ20 variants. The EJ25's are harder to find and had some head issues.
Brad would be the person to answer this one in detail.
helmut ·
Baja Wes wrote:The type of offroading we are talking about is shown in those manxclub videos. We aren't rock crawling, we are driving on dirt tracks in the Australian bush, or driving up the beach.
like this.................. "test"
you must be build you skill for driving on the offroad
maybe my 4wd cannot go up this "big hill" and over the very deep valley when did not have my whinch hahahaha:P:P🙅
now i know it "pto" is tractor😘P
[ Edited on 6-10-2007 by helmut ]
Rota_Motor ·
ahh now it makes sens, I was not aware of the head gasket issues with EJ25s, and I kinda assumed that everyone would be running DOHC versions of the subes anyway.
maybe we all just have different mindsets, to go offroading, I wouldnt personally baja a bug, I'd just go and buy my V8 hilux ute :P (although I may just make an offroad VW of somekind if the opportunity presents itself)
one4 ·
Rota_Motor wrote:(although I may just make an offroad VW of somekind if the opportunity presents itself)
I'm finding that right now. Have my project Subie beetle but now I have a spare bug and baja kit. Does that mean the Opportunity has presented itself? 😀
Richard
helmut ·
do you have it ecotec 2.2 in australia is very nice motor cheap
gazman ·
helmut wrote:do you have it ecotec 2.2 in australia is very nice motor cheap
I think aussie Vectra's have a 2 or 2.2lt ecotec motor, wouldnt call it 'cheap' though.
DubCrazy ·
the ecotec out of a vectra? EWWWW!!!! horrible engine, mite be reliable but totaly boring and doesnt do anything well, under powered, terrible throttle responce, just a very dull and unintresting engine. the only engine that came in a vectra that was close to decent was the V6 and thats not even half the engine a EJ is and there are far better V6''s out there if i wanted to go down that road.
steff....................
helmut ·
DubCrazy wrote:the ecotec out of a vectra? EWWWW!!!! horrible engine, mite be reliable but totaly boring and doesnt do anything well, under powered, terrible throttle responce, just a very dull and unintresting engine. the only engine that came in a vectra that was close to decent was the V6 and thats not even half the engine a EJ is and there are far better V6''s out there if i wanted to go down that road.
steff....................
im not know if vectra is same motor i think it is not Lingenfelters 4 cyl Ecotech power full body Cavalier is run 6 sec in states many sandrail /buggy baja using this very strong motor
GM
Name: Ecotec
170 H.P 155 Ft. Lbs Torque
Type: 2.2L I-4
Displacement: 2189 cc (134 ci)
Compression ratio: 10.0:1
Bore x stroke: 86.00 x 94.60mm
Fuel system: sequential fuel injection
Rev Limit: 6000
Block: cast aluminum
Cylinder head: cast aluminum
Intake manifold: composite
Connecting rods: forged powder metal
engine weight same
subaru oil sump is sitting lower
[ Edited on 10-10-2007 by helmut ]
helmut ·
for the fun
630 H.P 7.0 590 Ft Lbs. Torque (470hp 800Nm)
Type: 7.0L V-8
Displacement: 427 ci
Compression ratio: 11.0:1
Bore x stroke: 4.125 x 4.00
Fuel system: sequential fuel injection
Rev Limit: 6800 rpm
Block: cast aluminum
Cylinder head: cast aluminum
Intake manifold: composite
Connecting rods: forged titanium
Off Road Package Includes
Dry Sump Oiling System-8 Quart Reservoir
200mm double disk clutch
Adapter plate & hardware
Off road ceramic coated headers
Outterwear for air filter
(Starting at)
$21,900.00 USD + freight
how many is it you want can give it to you discount for bulk order:thumb
[ Edited on 10-10-2007 by helmut ]
1303Steve ·
Hi
The Ecotec is an interesting motor but the thing I like about the boxer engine layout is that they don't hang out the back as much as an in-line 4.
FYI, 170 hp = 125 kW & 155 ft lbs = 210 Nm
Steve
helmut ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi
The Ecotec is an interesting motor but the thing I like about the boxer engine layout is that they don't hang out the back as much as an in-line 4.
Steve
yes is very good :thumb
also if you put exhausts & turbo on back in subaru is almost same but most weight is more forward close with axle in subaru
also center gravity is lower for subaru:thumb
[ Edited on 12-10-2007 by helmut ]
THUDKNUCKLE ·
hmm gvery intersting these vtec engines ,, my very first plan for my project chopped baja was to use a v-tec ,,,, but things got more intesting , Vtec actually spin the opposite direction so most engines including vw engines,,,,,, so then the topic came of gearboxes, ,, ,, maybe a subi transaxle could be used with a vtec cos it spins the other way .. .. may be somethign interesting to look into ,, i looked away from vtec after deciding that i wanted to go with a high boost turbo water pumper engine ,
just my 2 cents
helmut ·
THUDKNUCKLE wrote:hmm gvery intersting these vtec engines ,, my very first plan for my project chopped baja was to use a v-tec ,,,, but things got more intesting , Vtec actually spin the opposite direction so most engines including vw engines,,,,,, so then the topic came of gearboxes, ,, ,, maybe a subi transaxle could be used with a vtec cos it spins the other way .. .. may be somethign interesting to look into ,, i looked away from vtec after deciding that i wanted to go with a high boost turbo water pumper engine ,
just my 2 cents
yes honda (4cyl) is going backwards you can change it camshaft and oil pump for it will be going normal or turn it transmission over or change it ring gear and pinion but better you go it 6cyl normal + turbo + nos =🤘 :thumb
[ Edited on 12-10-2007 by helmut ]
THUDKNUCKLE ·
ha now your talking big money ,, during a bit of research i came across a v6 vtec out of a nsx ,, the magic price tag was say oh only $16,990
helmut ·
THUDKNUCKLE wrote:ha now your talking big money ,, during a bit of research i came across a v6 vtec out of a nsx ,, the magic price tag was say oh only $16,990
yes is true but do not need nsx. 3.5 stock with turbo and motec will go safe reliable 400hp also is very nice strong motor :thumb
is 3.0L legal ?? what about a 3.0L turbo , ?? i know its not in QLD ,, unless it is car that wont see the road
helmut ·
THUDKNUCKLE wrote:ha now your talking big money ,, during a bit of research i came across a v6 vtec out of a nsx ,, the magic price tag was say oh only $16,990
if you can put it 3.5 nsx must be you can put it 3.0 yes?
one4 ·
Wikipedia says the beetle weighs 840kgs.
Going from that weight and using the Modifications table it would be as follows:
840 x 4.0 = 3,360 NA engine
840 x 2.75 = 2,310 Turbo engine
I could be wrong but thats how I understand it.
What is the agreed weight of the beetle?
one4 wrote:Wikipedia says the beetle weighs 840kgs.
Going from that weight and using the Modifications table it would be as follows:
840 x 4.0 = 3,360 NA engine
840 x 2.75 = 2,310 Turbo engine
I could be wrong but thats how I understand it.
What is the agreed weight of the beetle?
Richard
Hi
It depends on what model. A 1302 or 1303 is 870.
So 870 x 4 = 3480
870 x 2.75 = 2392.5
Steve
THUDKNUCKLE ·
hmm it depends where you are in Qld atm 2.5 Na isthe biggest you can go i belive or 2l turbo ,, im pretty sure last time i looked
helmut ·
THUDKNUCKLE wrote:hmm it depends where you are in Qld atm 2.5 Na isthe biggest you can go i belive or 2l turbo ,, im pretty sure last time i looked
🙅is very bad for motor industry workers
put it 20b rotor=😬🤘
helmut ·
did you see it 😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫
Baja Wes ·
Rotaries have a 2x multiplier on them for road legal purposes in Oz. So a 20B is classed as a 4L engine.
helmut ·
🤪is the rule for how many sheet paper using for toilet too😂
how many times you must breath in minuite if driving registered car
you must have it licence for fart if holding wheel for steering😊
i am feel sorry for you🥲
do you have it performance motorcycle in Australia on the road
Rota_Motor ·
one4 wrote:
Rota_Motor wrote:(although I may just make an offroad VW of somekind if the opportunity presents itself)
I'm finding that right now. Have my project Subie beetle but now I have a spare bug and baja kit. Does that mean the Opportunity has presented itself? 😀
Richard
havent looked here for a while..
Richard my friend, we may have to catch up and have a little chat. I'm pretty sure there may be a unused 12A in the shed too, and the other one I need an excuse to build.