Hi, purchased a 69 vw for my daughter.
It has some money spent on it by prevoius owner.
i believe its a 1835 and it has 009 with twin kadrons.
We did a service on it and then i located a petronix 2 ignitor and installed it.
we are constantly fouling number 3 spark plug in a range of 100 km.I have replaced needle and seats in the kadrons,i have replaced the float, i have added a second washer under the needle and seat on the offending carb,increased the spark gap up to 1 mm it has made an improvement we can go further but it`s still fouling.My next move is to locate a fuel regulator and install it.
Anyone with any other ideas??
Greatly appreciated.
1303Steve ·
Hi
Is it fouling with fuel or oil? Try swapping 3 & 4 leads with each other, it maybe not getting enough spark because the lead is breaking down.
Steve
[ Edited on 4-10-2007 by 1303Steve ]
takis ·
it is carbon fouled.
the emgine is in good shape.
The carbs have had their mixtures set by numerous mechanics but it is still occuring.
Craig Torrens ·
Phone Stan Pobjoy 02 66543694
takis ·
My next plan is a fuel regulator, get it down to 1.5 psi.
see how it responds to that ? Another idea is, seek out Bosch super 4 electrode spark plugs and see if i can foul those?? or NGK Iridiums?? Does anyone have any of these in there bugs??
VWFREAK ·
To the best of my knowledge you still can't get NGK Iridiums for a beetle etc yet, but you can for mini's. Go figure.
Fuel pressure can be a problem with Kads, I had a similar problem a while back with my ghia. The regulator fixed my problem.
Craig Torrens ·
takis wrote:My next plan is a fuel regulator, get it down to 1.5 psi.
see how it responds to that ? Another idea is, seek out Bosch super 4 electrode spark plugs and see if i can foul those?? or NGK Iridiums?? Does anyone have any of these in there bugs??
With the carbs set right you shouldn't need to change plugs or the fuel reg (assuming its using the standard pump).
takis ·
i`ve heard that the stock fuel pump can achieve pressures up to 4 psi, so this could be one of the issues.
Kads work on low fuel pressures generaly 1.5 psi is ideal.
Does anyone know where i an purchase a fuel regulator in Sydney??
Somehow i dont think anyspark plug would be able to self clean and not end up fouled eventually in my situation.
Bizarre ·
just my 2c
before you go spending money on a fuel regulator have you tried swapping plugs, leads etc.
Seeing as they are single barrels seems strange it fouls 3 and 4 is ok??
Was it ok before the service??
before the electronic points??
takis ·
the very first service was done by me a week after we bought the car.
i did the valve gaps and replaced the distributor and rotors and leads.
It then started playing up and it has since been to too vw mechanics for some time .
They have made some attempts , but it continues to foul.
what if i place a hotter set of plugs??
Fuel regulator might be the answer??
I`ve heard that this clears this sought of phantom problem with Kadrons..
vw54 ·
Do a compression test on each cyclinder
if there close and even then go onto the next step
If # 3 is vastly different then you need to check the tappets or move onto maybe a engine rebuild
Bizarre ·
takis wrote:i did the valve gaps and replaced the distributor and rotors and leads.
It then started playing up
OK... dont take this the wrong way but this is where i reckon your problem is.
When you set the valves was the car dead stone cold??
I would start with valves
forry2000 ·
it will be a fuel reg issue for sure
Stan Pobjoy? May be in 1980 we all went to Stan, but not these days.
Joel ·
if it flooding was the prob it would be to both 3 and 4 on that side as ur dealing with single throat carbs
u say its carbon on the plug?
it doesnt sound like a fuel prob to me
i had an 1835 a while back that did the same thing to number one
all plugs were nice and clean excpet number 1 would carbon up
turned out to be a dodgy ring on that cylinder
1835 are notorious for it
they really are the worst cylinder kit u can ever put on a vw as they are too thin which causes them to overheat, warp and leak compression badly
-Joel
Craig Torrens ·
forry2000 wrote:it will be a fuel reg issue for sure
Stan Pobjoy? May be in 1980 we all went to Stan, but not these days.
its better for Stan that people like you don't go to him :thumb.............especially if you think its a fuel reg issue.
If the pressure was too high, then both carbs would probably be affected and therefore fouling all plugs. If it was just one carby, then like what others have pointed out it would affect 3 and 4.
My guess is that you need a new coil.
And for the record, Kadrons can handle up to 7psi :thumb
lohoon ·
what are the plugs? I run 1835 and had a fouling prob only a coupla weeks ago.Pulled the plugs and went 1 number hotter.Problem solved.Cant remember the exact number but mine were xx6x and i replaced them with xx5x or somethin along them lines.
ngk lowerthe number = hotter the plug
PS All Hail Stan our God! Yeah we went to Stan in the 80s and that motor is still running!Yeah its worn out a set of cylinders but the bottom end is Pobjoy counterweighted crank and is still running the same main bearings as when built in '88.AND is 1835cc
takis ·
The first lot of plugs was Beru XX14X.
Next i installed a Petronix Ignitor two pointless ignition and with that i installed NGKS xx5x, it made a considerable difference as my plugs werent fouling in the next 50 km road trip.
I have now gapped the spark plugs 1 mm or 40 thou.
Great improvement now as i can go approx 200 km before it fouls the plug and makes the car intolerable to drive.
When i did adjust the valve settings the car was cold.Since then it has been to numerous visits to VW mechanics and they have done valve settings also.
I seriously dont know if its a 1835 , im guessing from the seat of the pants it gives when she does run well.
Im still in search of a fuel regulator as work doesnt allow me to make calls and i do long hours 12 hour shifts.
From my searches regarding these symptoms, it states Kadrons like low fuel delivery..< 2 psi..
[ Edited on 5-10-2007 by takis ]
forry2000 ·
yep, somewhat contrasting to Mr 'i'm gonna get real personal' Torrens.
Kadrons like low psi.
takis ·
Well im going out today and going to purchase another set of plugs, a ittle hotter and put them in.
I will try and call Burwood carb place regarding fuel regulator ..
Wish me luck..:duh
vw54 ·
did you do a compression test ???
takis ·
yes compression test was carried out , in the 140 psi vicinity for cylinders 2,3,4.Number one was an error i think as it registered 170 psi.I shall carry out another compression check with a better compression tester when i get mine back from family.
I`ve purchased a hotter NGK plug set.
A new lead is also on number three and im going to take it out on a run to Blacktown and back and see what results from this lot of tinkering.
Craig Torrens ·
a new coil yet ?
takis ·
the coil was replaced when it went to Vw mechanics with a new coil.Also changed the rotor twice the distributor twice, leads also.Im going to swap the leads over 4 is going to 3 as the mechanic did mention bad batch of leads lately from manufacturer as he has had to recall some back due to ignition lead breaking down.Dont fear i will swap them not redirect them ..
i didnt locate fuel regulator, still searching for that.
Going out now for that drive to Blacktown ,rather sit and watch Bathurst..
Craig Torrens ·
you can get fuel regulators from any auto shops..............like autoone,repco,supercheap etc
Brian ·
Use a Malpassi Reg
Joel ·
honestly a FPR is a waste of money
u would be one of the only people in aus that has a regulator with a stock pump :duh
if the pressure is too high with stock pumps all u do is add gaskets underneath till the pressure is down to what u want
-Joel
takis ·
ok , thats an easy way to lower the pressure , thanks i shall look into it.
I was thinking of adding a plug in the fuel line with a smaller orifice cut back the flow but not the pressure.
Thanks for the advice that you can get fuel regulators from auto stores , never thought..
I will get one tomorrow and see how it goes. Never went for the drive as the bug has a rear flat 🤖
What else can go wrong.??
Thanks all for your advice, i shall keep you all posted of the outcome naturally.
If it is a worn cylinder issue , im considering in removing the engine and replacing the cylinders with 90.5 mm pistons and barrels at the same time doing up the heads and getting all back together.
Before we go there i would like to exhaust other venues before blowing a lot of money..
vw54 ·
and replacing the cylinders with 90.5 mm pistons and barrels at the same
you carnt replace the 92s with 90s unless you makea special spacer ring to fitt he small barrel and larger cyclinder hole in the case
vw54 ·
and it dosent sound like itsa wron cyclinder issue as you have 140psi so its carbies or ignition for sure but you have to start with the basics
Joel ·
if u do end up doing a bit of a rebuild like u have already suggested swapping the 92mm 1835 jugs for 90.5mm 1776 ones is the best move
its a straight bolt in job as they have the same size spigots in the case and heads and u will have a much stronger motor
i did the same thing when i rebuilt my old 1835
as a 1776 it has more power due to the absence of compression leaks and runs alot cooler and quieter
but yea do a proper compression test, no point wasting money if its not needed
-Joel
[ Edited on 6-10-2007 by DUB74L ]
takis ·
thanks everyone.
I will get on to it again during the week ,spent the day with family watching Bathurst. So at the moment i have swapped the ignition cable from 3 and four , new hotter plugs enhance self cleaning and i will purchase the regulator as i fear that i will create an oil leak at the base of the fuel pump base if i tamper with it.
Its not leaking now so why tempt fate??
Rota_Motor ·
does it idle smoothly?? you dont have an air leak into number 4 meaning you need to richen the mixtures to get them correct on that side, leading to too much fuel in number 3??
do all VW's have the retarded spark timing for number 3?? I'm thinking this could be an issue.
doesnt blow any smoke does it?? Danielles type 3 had a severs missfire on number 3 when we got it, new plugs has fixed it for now, but now it blows alot more smoke. I'm guessing 3 has an oil control issuethat isnt noticeable once its fouled the plug.
takis ·
Its carbon that fouls the number 3 plug.
Very little smoke when revvved hard.
It idles nicely at 1000 rpm.
This is why i posted, im out of ideas.. its not fouling number 4 plug but it does foul plug three and its a pain ..
Not working on the car during the week as i have started a new job .Will post more as things come to light. i also have the rear left tyre flat.All awaiting for the weekend to be attended tooo..
Craig Torrens ·
put your new fuel reg on yet ????
takis ·
not yet, doing 12 hour shifts at the moment stores are closed when i venture out after work.Will be done on the weekend along with the rear tyre puncture repair.
Brian ·
Don't use one of those chrome dial type regs , they are useless.
VWCOOL ·
forry2000 wrote:yep, somewhat contrasting to Mr 'i'm gonna get real personal' Torrens.
Kadrons like low psi.
Forry: 'getting personal' would read something like "you obviously know nothing and you sound like a dickhead" :P
Anyhow Takis, are you sure your problem is not ignition related? One single-throat carb feeding two cylinders is not really likely to foul just ONE plug...
[ Edited on 11-10-2007 by VWCOOL ]
takis ·
left work early today.
went to Auto1 at Villawood , No fuel regs for sale .Just bought flash lube .Drove on to Supercheap and no happiness there either.
Recommendation for a low fuel reg is Rare Spares on Parra Rd,
Im going there on Sat , and i`ll pick up leads and other ignition bits for another go!!
Cheers all.
takis ·
well the saga has come to an end.
after weeks of frustration, i handed the car over to Burwood carb services.
i found out they see a few Kadrons come thru the workshop and they had the gasket kits for them.After explaining to Tim the issues with the car he explained that another valve clearance adjustment be made, before i hand over the car.
The following day being last Thursday , i drove the car to him , explained that i wanted the carbs overhauled and a full tune carried out, also the Malpassi reg to be installed.
Friday i received the call the car will be ready for pick up.. i Trained it over to Burwood and rocked up to collect the car. Tim explained that the manifolds do favour cylinder 1 and 3 but didnt find anything obvious..
as far as the fuel pump it was pumping out 4 and a half psi. Couldnt install the malpassi reg , so instead installed one of those el cheapo chrome ones. 😠
handed the money , got the keys and away we went , thinking that all should be behind and all for the better having a carb expert now tinkered with it..
So today we went for a long drive , got to Auburn and it stopped in the middle of the road...
Pushed the car into a side street off parramatta rd..
sat there pondering the future and how quickly the fire brigade would take if a match was thrown into the car???
After 20 mins , the car started up idling contently on the side of the road...i jumped in and turned for home ..
Several km from home she stopped in the middle lane of Hume Hwy..
Again i pushed it down a side street and called the NRMA..
The road service guy discovered that the fuel pump is faulty and rang for a tow..
i thanked him and canceled the tow , i struck the fuel pump with the tyre iron and the car started as if there was no issue..
its home now..
the wife has had enough !!!
Im frustrated with it..
Monday i will go out and purchase a new fuel pump and install that and see what other issues this little car can throw at me..
The up side , well the spark plug so far hasnt fouled yet!!!
Craig Torrens ·
takis wrote:Tim explained that the manifolds do favour cylinder 1 and 3 but didnt find anything obvious..
Shows how much Tim knows............Kadrons have a manifold for 1&2 and a manifold for for 3&4, they are both the same dimensions......................Just ring Stan Pobjoy.
takis ·
tim said if you look down the manifold, it does (favour) 1 and 3 in the fuel charge..
All i know is this little car is testing me and my patients with it..
I trully dont know if the fouling issue has been cured as i havnt had a chance to do a good run as new issues have arised..
To be continued.....
Craig Torrens ·
😂😂..........impossible.
takis ·
nothing is impossible ,i dont know the cars background ,but someone could have had a go at matchporting and smoothing the internal castings.Quite possibly made a meal of it!! As we all try to improve the horsepower with what we have . The insides of the manifold could be modified i havnt seen inside the throat of them so i cant make the statement that its impossible.:🙅
ancientbugger ·
Craig,
I'm not the most technically minded on this forum but if the manifold was made so the carb wasn't centred directly over the ports so on each side it was say more over number 3 than over 4, wouldn't that affect things? Plus Takis I've had VWs running for ages on two cylinders (not recommended!) so even if one spark plug was fouling it wouldn't stop you.
Brian ·
um
its not the manifolds design in that the carb isn't centre or whatever,
its probably more of a valve overlap problem common with Kads.
Have u checked the Exhaust on that cylinder , is every thing ok there ?
Craig Torrens ·
ancientbugger wrote:Craig,
I'm not the most technically minded on this forum but if the manifold was made so the carb wasn't centred directly over the ports so on each side it was say more over number 3 than over 4, wouldn't that affect things? Plus Takis I've had VWs running for ages on two cylinders (not recommended!) so even if one spark plug was fouling it wouldn't stop you.
This can happen with webers as they can run an offset manifold......................but not Kadrons.
Takis can you take a photo of the engine bay, and the carbies just to confirm that they really are Kadrons ?
ancientbugger ·
So would Webbers cause these same problems with an offset manifold? I'd guess this would be a valve problem if the manifolds are OK.
takis ·
Sorry , at the moment having many issues to contend with , new job ,pool renovation , family and another job interview to prepare for..(Pursueing higher pay naturally.)😎
I will get a pic and fire it off soon.
When i have driven the bug since i had the carbs overhauled, it now overheats and stalls on the road after prolonged idleing , say waiting to emerge on a very busy road...once i get on the main road and floor it to get up to speed she coughs and splutters and stalls as it feels like its run out of petrol..
NRMA guy indicated that the fuel pump was cause of my lack of progress.
I poured cold water on the pump and she started immediately once again as if there was no issues , idle good no miss and gets me home..
The car hasnt been driven since last Sunday.
Mind you the kids dont wish to get in the car as they are too embarrassed pushing it off the main street when she does decide to play up.
As i said earlier, very pressed for free time at the moment...
When i do get some time i will look at the ignition timing and a new fuel pump maybe..it was a rather hot day in Sydney on Sunday but that sould be no excuse for fuel vapour lock or mechanical failure of the fuel pump.
Another thing im thinking is it might be leaned right out also to combat the plug fouling and now the engine is running in elevated temp... because of this..
To be continued.............
1303Steve ·
Hi
What sort of high tension leads are you using?
I had a fuel issue when I was travelling down to Canberra the other weekend. I had a blocked steel line between the tank and pump. A piece of broken down rubber hose was blocking it. I would recommend to anyone that has their car jacked up at home, pull both rubber lines off and give the line a blow.
Very embarrassing, I had to call the NRMA to blow the line out at the side of the road, that's who I work.
Steve
VWCOOL ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi
What sort of high tension leads are you using?
I had a fuel issue when I was travelling down to Canberra the other weekend. I had a blocked steel line between the tank and pump. A piece of broken down rubber hose was blocking it. I would recommend to anyone that has their car jacked up at home, pull both rubber lines off and give the line a blow.
Very embarrassing, I had to call the NRMA to blow the line out at the side of the road, that's who I work.
Steve
sorry Steve, but 😂😂😂
1303Steve ·
Hi Glen
Its funny now, but at time it wasn't, left Sydney at 5.30 am didn't get to Canberra until after lunch. Had every tool that I thought I would need with me, but no compressor. It ran like a clock to Bathurst a few months ago and then up to Sawtell.
Steve
takis ·
ignition leads are genuine bremi leads, they have been changed twice with new ones, i have heard the Bremi plug ends did go thru a quality issuue, but its not that as i said i have changed them many times without a difference with the fouling plug..
VWCOOL ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi Glen
Its funny now, but at time it wasn't, left Sydney at 5.30 am didn't get to Canberra until after lunch. Had every tool that I thought I would need with me, but no compressor. It ran like a clock to Bathurst a few months ago and then up to Sawtell.
Steve
yes I know the feeling... BTW, I was having a chuckle at the NRMA 'thing', not the actual situation... IYKWIM
takis ·
Here is the latest. Picked up a Brazilian fuel pump on Saturday from Classic VW, many thanks to George.
Tackled the fuel pump and replaced the gaskets and sealed a source of oil leak.🙅
Then took it out for a long test drive , and fanged it about .🤪
No problems , didnt miss a beat , lots of fun when its running well.
Sunday went out again in the bug and ventured further as my girls still dont trust the vehicle..
Came home and all was fine..
Later in the afternoon , i volunteered to go out and pick up sundays dinner.Well we didnt get very far, as it stalled in a busy roundabout..
I got out and awaited for a decent gap in the traffic to negotiate an exit and get it in a safer place ..
Made several attempts at starting it and it didnt fire up..
Lifted the engine lid looked around at the usual electrical connections , and fuel line. I didnt touch anything.
I only looked at various items..
Then had another go starting, and it started first thing , as if nothing was a miss.
I didnt feel like pushing my luck ,so once again headed home and jumped into a diesel old faithful and went to get dinner.
At least i know there are no gremlins in the diesel🤪
That was Sunday, it hasnt moved from the garage.
My wife and daughter are reluctant to have anything to do with this car, im getting a little annoyed also..
My next purchase will be hood jax from Hornsby..soon, as i sense it is running a little hotter than before it got its carbs done.( Running a lot leaner in order to stop the fouling of the plug)
This car has a rain catcher mounted beneath the engine lid vents which dont assist in allowing the heat to escape from the engine compartment..
I will let you know if it makes a difference..
ancientbugger ·
Have you thought of there being crap in the fuel tank itself? It's only due to a mispent childhood where we put potatoes into peoples' tanks and the idea being that the car would start and run for a short while then stall as the potato got sucked to the fuel outlet in the tank. Once stalled the potato floated away and the engine once again started. Obviously this can only happen when the tank doesn't have an internal filter.
Joel ·
does it act like its running out of fuel when it dies or does it just die instantly?
i had one of those bastard GT40 coils that pulled the same stunt many times
but theres a few igintion parts that can just get hot and crap out for a while
takis ·
I Accelerated to enter the roundabout , it just lost power and no matter how firmly the accelerator was depressed, it reached idle for a few seconds and then it just dwindled away ....then it was huff and puff push power..😬
takis ·
I would like to drive it to Hornsby to VWCOOL`S place and get some hood jax mounted , but the thing cant be trusted on such a journey..
takis ·
The thought of a fuel blockage is also making sense,
Crap could of blocked the flow the first time we broke down and had MR NRMA man look at VW aircooled for the first time and from his deductions previous fuel pump got turfed, and now with a brand spanker fuel pump she once again leaves me by the side of the road scratching my head ,and just when i was reaching for the matches, it must of sensed its number was quickly coming to an end ,and it had a change of heart..
A repreive for the little car again....🤪
Craig Torrens ·
come to my house and I'll tune it for you 👍
takis ·
Thanks Craig for the offer...
I am struggling to get my head around this little car and its idiosincressies.
My previous Super bug was never this problematic but that was 24 yrs ago..
At the moment i cant let my daughter drive it, being so unreliable..
I `ll keep plugging away until i iron out all the bugs...😂
I will read up on timing and 009 distributors and put that into action.
If i can get the thing to run a little more reliably , i will make a run for the Hood Jax also..
Craig Torrens ·
No probs................always welcome to come over 👍 Can also fit the hoodjax at my place as well.
kombibob ·
We had a very similar problem with our beetle, took a while to figure out but it ended up being a leak in the fuel line at the tank, it wasn't enough to leak fuel but was enough to suck air into the fuel line.
It would cause the car to mysteriously stop(like running out of fuel) only to start again later.
Replaced the lines, clamps and haven't had the problem again.
Hope this helps.
bob n ash
ancientbugger ·
DUB74L mentioned the coil, recently while pulling the engine in and out of my buggy the coil must have been knocked either by a live wire on the wrong spot or knocked physically and got damaged internally 'cos one moment the engine was running fine and the next it wouldn't start at all even when there was a spark at the plug (plug out and checked!). The engine would start eventually with a tow start but not with the starter, replacing the coil with a spare and there's been no trouble since. In 35 years of VWs I've only ever had trouble with a coil once before so it may be worth checking out.
Type182 ·
Since everyone else has thrown in their 2 cents worth, here goes..... Just a couple of yeras ago I came across a similar problem with fuel supply with a beautiful newly restored split van. Would run fine for a while, and then just stop, like it had a fuel supply problem. Everything checked (almost), and it turned out to be the breather from the fuel tank. The owner had fitted a new gasket in the tank cap, but because the breather was blocked it eventually formed a vacuum in the tank, until it couldn't suck any more fuel. kleave it to stand for a while and air seeps back into the fuel tank, and off he goes again... for a while. prior to the resto, it had a scabby old gasket on the cap that didn't really seal, so plenty of air getting in, and no need for a breather. This was certainly the most bizarre problem I had ever seen, and it took a French RAC (equivalent) guy to figure it out....
BTW, this has nothing to do with the original plug fouling issue, just the issue of grinding to a halt in dangerous places...!!!
So, when you take the cap off the tank, do you get a sudden rush of air into the tank? Try driving it without the gasket on the cap, or as previously suggested, look for a blockage in the fuel lines. In my humble opinion, it sound like fuel starvation, particularly when trying to pull away hard etc..
Good luck.
PS: My Type 182 runs like a bag of poo most of the time with an 009 on a standard 1600, so all of this talk of performance is all rather alien to me. 😊
takis ·
Thanks everyone for the great hints and tips.
I will try the fuel cap , as it is very firm to screw on and it could be an issue. I will also crawl under the car on saturday and check all the fuel lines.
Car stopping at the most inconvienent time not very nice..
Thanks for everyones help once again..
Well, i think the plug fouling issue has been solved.
Thru carb overhauls, tuneing lean,new leads and sparkplugs, new dizzy caps , new rotors, new electronic ignition , new fuel pump , installation of a fuel reg. We managed to fix the problem..
This intermittent stopping , will also be corrected and then i hope we can get in and enjoy the ride someday soon.....
takis ·
I think, i have found the reason the bug was stopping .
This morning we were pampering the old girl and we lifted the engine lid and were tracing the fuel hoses.
All the fuel line in the engine compartment is new. It was replaced two weeks ago.
I found the fuel regulator adjustment screw had moved off its setting. Which is 1 1/2 PSI ..Its all back to how it should be, the real test shall be a very long drive on a much warmer day to really see if its all good.
The adjustment screw on the fuel reg is now secure...
Lets see what else will decide to $&%# itself...???
takis ·
I decided to take the bug out for a drive, to Miller and go to the Flat Four clubs vw meet.
The whole family squeezed in thats 5 of us and we went for a drive to the show.
It ran very well going there.We enjoyed the array of colours on the cars on show ,as i am a minority male and the others in the family are more females, they only notice the colours!!
On the return trip we made it home without any incident.
I did look for hood jax ,but we got to the show rather late, it was after 2:30 pm and many of the items for sale had been packed off/sold for the end of the day..
Well that is promising for the time being , that some reliablity is returning to our bug.
We still dont trust it for a long drive , but that shall be short term until it proves its self..
Craig Torrens ·
yeah we left at about 1pm👍
Rota_Motor ·
I dunno if I mentioned it before, but Danielles twin carb (standard) type 3 has a fouled number 3 plug when we first got it.
changed the oil and plugs, and it seemed to be ok for a while (couple of months) but just lately Danielle thought it was starting to run rough again, and sure enough, it sounds to me like there is a plug starting to foul up again somewhere.