well i keep getting flooded with PMs and emails from here, the samba and shoptalk about the blower on my bug
so rather than keep answering the same questions to heaps of ppl over and over again i figured i do a write up with pics.
id thought about supercharging the bug for ages.
Id already tried my hand at turbocharging a while back after a mate gave me the old turbo from his GT starlet when he upgraded.
turbos are great but are alot more work and i found lag was very frustrating and high oil temps were being a problem.
Once u get a taste for forced induction its like VWs themselves, an addiction that just keeps growing
There arent alot of superchargers out there on the market for vws especially in oz.
the old judsons and shorrocks are around but they are made for tiny 1200s and are big $$ not to mention very rare
ive only recently built the engine in my bug , its a 1776 with a 416C tighe cam, stock heads with mild porting, HD valve springs, full flowed, balanced and a lightened flywheel
I built it with mahle P&Cs so it had a CR of 8.8:1, a bit high for force fed but ill deal with that later
currently it ran 40mm webers and had more than ample power and economy but the need for more was there......famous last words
this conversion had been done b4 and i spoke to Steve Rae first as hes done it in a few styles with good sucess.
i really gotta give him a big thanks for all the help he gave me thro out the project and also my good mate Don for the top welding job he did on the blower manifolds
I picked up an SC12 blower from a low KM MR2 that had just been imported from japan and unfortunatley was written off soon after
the SC12 is the smallest of the toyota blowers and comes off the mk1 supercharged MR2s and corollas/levins and sprinters
there is the more common larger capacity SC14 which comes off the bigger 2L toyotas like soarers, chasers and crowns but whilst its almost identical to the sc12s its about 50mm longer and thats just to long to fit a type 1 motor
a pancake type 3 or type 4 cam get away with it tho
these are very popular with the ecotec commodore guys
heres a pic showing the 2 side by side to give an idea on the lenght difference
the SC12 displaces 1200cc and the SC14 is 1440cc
Joel ·
I knew to fit it under the decklid of a bug id have to go sidedraft carb
another lucky score for $150 was a freshly rebuilt single 40mm DHLA Dellorto carb.
90% of the time u will only find these sold in pairs of 2 or 3 for upwards of $500
i also picked up a few other parts like an electric fuel pump, greddy style Blow Off Valve, some piping for the manifolds and boost guage
the first logical step seemed to be mount the thing
so out came the Mig and one of the old 1600s from under the house
I made up a bracket that bolted upto the original fuel pump mount and also to the case stud that mounts the original intake manifold
the blower was mounted to this with a length of 10mm booker rod
Joel ·
the blower was gonna have to be tilted slightly to clear things like alternator, dissy and decklid
with the bottom secured i thought about how to steady the top
i made up a bracket that fitted the 2 mounting lugs and ran another length of booker rod down to the alternator clamp
it turned out very sturdy
Joel ·
next was the drive pulley which brought up alot of issues
the blower pulley sat out a fair way from the vw belt so a big spacer was gonna be needed
also it was gonna have to be bolted on seperate as the bug valance wouldnt allow anything to be on the motor when installing the engine and i also i wanted to keep my degreed pulley for timing purposes
which couldnt be welded
so it was off to the wreckers to find a 5 rib pulley
i knew what size roughly i needed as size detemines boost levels
the standard 1600 toyota runs a 150mm drive pulley which boosts to 10PSI
but that was more than i wanted to run and also the 4AGZE motors rev out to 7500rpm
and my bug motor only revs to 6000rpm.
i figured about a 130mm pulley would give my desired boost level of 6-7Psi
so i came home with the crank pulley off a mazda 626
the spacer was made up the required lenght and was centered in the pulley then brazed toghether
my old boss with a lathe machined me up a shoulder which would locate it in the center of the VW crank pulley
also while at the wreckers i grabbed a falcon belt tensioner
i kept its original mounting bracket but just cut it down abit and welded in a length of brooker rod to mount it
Joel ·
the pulley worked out perfectly just like id hoped but there was one thing i hadnt counted on
i run a garden variety 4into1 header and thunderbird quietpack which i only got a few months ago when i built the motor
but my suspisions were confirmed when i fitted it up to the dummy engine
the new pulley stuck out to far to clear the #4 runner
after trying every header set i had laying around the only one that would fit with a bit of convincing (freindly encounter with a BFH) was a 4 tip monza and there was no way in hell im putting one of those POS on my car
so it became obvious i was gonna have to build a system to suit.
a trip to the zorst shop came home with a 12"mercury torpedo and various bends and splitters.
I cut up an old header and used the flanges and runners of it and welded it all toghether
TA-DA we have a half assed home made extractor system that will clear the new pulley
i also welded on a 3" stainless angle tip i had lying around from another exhaust and a bung for my o2 sensor.
quick coat of heat proof paint and could almost pass for a bought one LOL
Joel ·
now to the manifolds
the carb to blower one was fairly simple
a plate was cut out to fit the bottom of the carb and another to fit the inlet of the blower
then 2 pipes were cut to the right angles and lengths
the blower outlet was a similar deal
just a plate to fit onto the blower outlet and a small box was made with an outlet in the end
from there a cross over piece needed to be made
some pipe the same diameter as the original manifold was used to make a T piece that would mate up to the end manifolds
Joel ·
my idea was to use a 90degree rubber hose to join the blower to the manifold
digging around under mum and dads place i found a spare bottom radiator hose of mums mazda with the right bend and diameter was perfect for the job ....yoink
radiator hose has a pretty high pressure rating so they dont blow when cars boil and the original manifold boots are only rubber so i figured it could handle the job.
at the same time i also fitted the blow off valve to the manifold as well
this is fitted so that if ever the motor spits back thro the carb it wont blow the shit out of the blower vanes
but when i set it all up i wasnt real happy with it
the rubber hose would have done the job ok but i was worried with enough heat it may kink
so luckily from my years as a fridgy i still had a few copper fittings around
an 1 3/8" short radius elbow fit the bill perfectly so it was silver soldered on
and a new shorter straight piece of rubber hose which incidently was the spare top hose for mums mazda too LOL
u can also see the barbed fitting i tapped into the twinport manifold for the boost gauge
i ended up moving it to the the blower manifold above the BOV tho
Joel ·
next mod was my 009 dissy
turbo and supercharged motors need alot less advance when on boost
superchargers alot easier cos they have consistant boost
turbos depend on engine load
but u still need normal timing at low revs to keep a good idle and easy starting
if using a stock or 009 dissy the usual method is to limit the centrifigal weights movement or the more crude method is to lock them in place
locking is a bad idea in my books cos trying to start a hot engine with static timing of 24* sucks and a hot engine idling at 24* cant be good.
just limiting the weights is much better cos u can still have stock static timing for easy starting and smooth idle, but u can limit the max advance
the main way ive seen ppl doing this is just bending over the stop tabs which i dont like cos its not easily revesable and if ubend to far its hard to correct
i decided to go with a more elegant and adjustable method of tapping a screw into the tab so it could just be wound in or out to limit the wieghts travel
its a 3.5mm throttle butterfly screw from a holley carb
Joel ·
well it was about time to kiss goodbye to my webers
i stood there looking at it thinking what the hell am i doing....
it all fitted up well the only slight problem was the carby manifold sat too close to the alternator for the standard plug to fit on
i over came this by just using right angle female spade connectors
i also had to work out what to do about a throttle cable
luckily one of my other bugs had been fitted with a mazda rotary engine so it had a longer throttle cable fitted.....yoink
but it was just a motorbike throttle cable made to a set length.
i made a clamp on the blower mount and folded up a throttle linkage on the carb
sweet as
i also mounted the electric fuel pump on the shelf beside the engine
and wired the clutch from the blower to the positive terminal on the coil
that way it cuts out as soon as the ignitons turned off.
i had to mount the coil upside down cos it was in the way of the blower outlet
even if it didnt work it did look pretty mean installed 😂
Joel ·
well it was time
i decided to crack out the camera phone and record the big moment
well it fired straight up
wasnt idleing real brilliant once i turned the cold start off tho
but that was just a jetting thing
DHLA dellortos are the carb of choice for most draw thro turbo owners so there was a fair bit of info out there to help me wiht jetting sizes.
after abit of jet tweaking i took it for a quick blat
all i can say is F**K ME!!!
the accelaration the thing had was absolute bullshit LOL
ive been in some fast cars before and while it wouldnt blow off a twin turbo skyline the poor old bug was having trouble keeping the front wheels on the ground
even with 215 tyres on the back it was chirping changing into 2nd
i took the old man for a squirt down the road
and all he said was i think its got to much power, the only car thats ever thrown me back in the seat like that was my old V8 falcon
max boost i saw on the gauge was 8psi
top end wise it charged hard over 2k but it did have a horrible flat spot just off idle and seemed to bog abit
As i expected cos of the high compression of the motor it was pinging a fair bit under boost
even knocking back the timing to 20* and filling the tank with premium didnt get rid of it so i knew the engine would need decompressing
easy as
copper gaskets can be fitted between the heads and jugs to lower compression
the turbo guys use and recomend these cos they actually seal better than with no gasket
Joel ·
so not wanting to destroy my new engine, i dropped the 1776 out so i could whip the heads off and put my old stock 1600 back in to keep the car drivable.
just for shits and giggles i decided to try the blower on it too
and got a real shock
its by no means a fresh engine
its actually the first vw motor i ever built way back when i was 16 and after more than a decade still runs sweet.
but with stock compression of 7.5 it handled the blower alot better
power wise it really surprised me, i would say it was exaclty the same as the 1776 was with twin webers
but the torque was unbeleivable
a good example was driving out to work up a really steep hill just leaving bexhill
its a big hill and knocks the wind out of most cars
my 1776 would hold 100 in top gear at half throttle
the lightened flywheel means it looses speed on hilll quicker than normal
but b4 it was built my old 1600 with a weber would drop to 80 in top gear at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle
i could just hold a 100 by dropping back to 3rd and really winding it out.
the 1600 with a blower held 100 in 4th at only 1/4 throttle
i was truly blown away by that
anywayz heres a quick vid
this was the 2nd video recorded
the first one i really wound it out and snapped the throttle return spring which left the carb WOT
the language coming out of me wasnt suitable for publishing LOL
so heres attempt 2 taking it abit easier of what a blown 1600 can do
Joel ·
so yes performance was impressive but the drivability seemed pretty good to
what surprised me was its very easy to just drive sedately and not even make boost
iim yet to get thro a tank of fuel but so far economy seems no different to when it just had a weber on it
which average was 9L/100kms
once the 1776 is back in ill be taking it to tafe for a dyno run
another guy i know has done the same setup on a stock 1600 in manx
only difference with his is the blower is mounted on its side with a 36/32 downdraft weber progressive
he has it dynoed b4 and after
stock it put out 43 at the wheels and with the blower on it made 82
so thats roughly a 100% power increase not bad for a bit of bolt on gear
So now i really cant wait to get my 1776 back in 👍
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
Well done,a very interesting read and it looks like a lot of fun. Have you thought about using a dual vacuum dizzy? That will give you retard when on boost.
Steve
Joel ·
Hi Steve
yeah i have but ive had no luck finding one yet
dont see to many on bugs
and i think only some type 4s had them
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
71 Supers had them as well as Type 3s. The dealers were removing them, they gave dreadful mileage when combined with the huge jets that they ran in the carb.
This is the sort of thing I have been dreaming of doing, good to see it done!!
Well Done.
Is it Time for an Intercooler.......... hehe
👍
Joel ·
thanks everyone
lugnuts, yeah thats the animal
find me one them and u'll be my new best mate 🤓
unfortunatley an intercooler isnt an option at the moment cos its a draw thro setup
but all that may change very shortly
as is typical of me never happy letting sleeping dogs lie im already working on the next project.....
gonna expiriemnt with megasquirt
already getting togther a few bits and pieces
plz excuse the dirty socks....
greedy53 ·
mate have you thought about using water injection its really easy and will do away with the pinging prob i have used it a lot amnd it cheap to set up and run u2u me and i'll get the diagram 4 u
Joel ·
thanks steve
since setting it up on the 1600 i havent had any pinging problems but im still keen on a h2o injection system
ill prob get a hobbs switch so it comes on at around 5psi
-Joel
jo_tas ·
Nice to see the write up on this!
Lots of stuff we hadn't talked about on msn covered here!
As Joel and i have been talking about it online.. i'm hoping to do a similar setup on the notch.. probably more like the manx setup, but with the blower sitting lower.
Nice work!
Gracey ·
Good writeup Joel, thanks for sharing.
I'll be interesting to see what it puts out on the dyno, should have a nice flat torque curve.
Andrew
VWFREAK ·
Madness, I love it.
2443TT ·
Whats with the blow off valve on a draw through supercharged system? Is that protection for the blower in case of a backfire?
If so I think you want to extend that pipe out of the engine bay, or your in danger of starting a fire in the engine bay. Even if the bov leaks a little as they are known to do, it is right next to your distributor = bad.
Cheers,
Ian
Joel ·
hey Ian
yeah thats the reason i got a plumb back style BOV
i just have got around to extending it out of the engine bay yet
funny thing is the old shorrocks and judsons had the same thing
an open atmo BOV on either manifold end
wonder if any of them had any probs cos yeah thats been a concearn of mine too
-Joel
humpty ·
Awesome stuff Joel.... Simply awesome.... I can't wait to see how this thing performs on the strip and the track....
Joel ·
yeah i really wanted to have it up and running for warrick but ah well next year
its just done a 450km round trip up to bris and back this weekend and did it to the tune of 8.7L/100km which im pretty happy with considering i did a fair bit of stirring taking off from traffic lights up there
buzzing along the motorway at 100-110 the boost gauge was sitting on 10psi vaccum most of the time
jo_tas ·
noice.
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
What effect does it have if you turn off the power to pulley, does it still run OK?
Steve
Joel ·
Hi Steve
i havent driven it far without the blower engaged,
but the clutch was powered just i forgot to tension the belt 😊
but it felt exactly like a stock 1600
so im guessing it puts a very slight restriction on the intake with the engines vacuum having to spin over the blower but really it had no real noticable affect
the blower turns over that easily its not funny
but im actually going to remove the clutch assembly and mount a fixed pulley instead as theres no real reason to have the clutch its just a weak link IMO
i never turn mine off
cos its so easy to just drive like a nanna but then naii it and the powers there instantly
i was really impressed with how it performed on the motorway
sitting behind a car at 100 and being able to pull out and hit 120 to pass in seconds with out barely putting the hammer down was exactly the sort of responce i was hoping for with the blower
i can see why they would be ideal for a big heavy kombi
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
I thought that you may want to have the clutch hook up at a certain throttle opening but I suppose that you don't really need it. So this is the 1600 in there still or do you have 1776 in?
Steve
Joel ·
Hi Steve
yeah its still the stock 1600,
Richards got my copper head gaskets almost ready so the 1776 should be back in very soon
the stock 4agze motors have the clutch triggered by the ECU
it works off manifold pressure
so they only engage when u put enough load on the engine
when theyre not they have a air bypass valve that runs around the blower
im thinking of adding this setup once i go EFI
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
That would be a cool feature. Its probably better to run as you are for now, raw fuel might damage the vain coating.
Steve
Joel ·
thats abit of a grey area
most say the vane coatings are teflon but a few of the experts say its flourine or something???
anyway steve rae spoke to toyota and they said it would be fine and the fuel mix would actually help cool the blower
but either way ive seen a heap of these used in draw thro setups with no probs so who knows...
but i plan on going mega squirt soon
just trying to work out whether to go MPI or and have the TB before the blower or gut a set of webers and use twin TBI instead in blow thro
be easier to intercool like that
frenzix ·
Hey , didn't see this until now.. nice work joel.. saw you the other day as i was going south in clunes (in my 64) you zipped by.. can you take us for a spin one day soon? Cheers , Tim
Joel ·
yea spotto
i was heading down to meet judy
but yeah should be abit more impressive in a few weeks when my 1776 is back in
ill take u for a blat
frenzix ·
sweet
Joel ·
quick note to anyone thats doing a conversion like this...
make sure the crank bolt is fkn tight!
i rarely drive my bug to work but it was such a nice day i couldnt help it
driving home i noticed the power dropped off a noticible and she was spluttering abit at higher revs
but there was no funny noises or anything out of the ordinary and i was only 5kms from town so i just babied it home
when i got home and had a looksee the belt and crank pulley were just kinda hanging there doing nothing
crank bolt had falledn out and by some fluke of who knows what the crank pulley had stayed on the crank even tho its loose enough that i can pull it off by hand with a bit of jiggling
luckily everythings ok just lost the center shoulder and crank bolt
plus my degreed pulley looks abit sorry
think i use a lock washer next time
but yes they do still run without the blower belt on
on a positive note thos since changing the blower clutch and running a smaller pulley on it, its now hitting 10psi boost
but really needs some water injection to run that sorta PSI safely tho
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
Hi Joel,
Great right up- I have been considering doing this after my mate did it to his mini moke! So some questions if you do not mind....
Q. What jetting did you end up with on the 1776?
Q. Can you provide details on how far aft and above the fan shroud it ended up? ( I need to access if it will fit with the lid shut)
Q. And finally I was a bit concerned in loading up the end of the crank and was considering using a toothed belt and pulley. Any comments?
Nice job. I was keen in building a supercharged type 4 for my Baja. I bought 2 type 4's for parts, and was looking for an SC14. Then I starting pricing type 4 parts and realised it would be cheaper to go jap import. So I sold the type 4's and went with the V6. But I still have a want to go for a supercharger, so maybe one day I will put one on the V6 🙂
What sort of crank bolt are you using? If it's stock is it still engaging a reasonable length?
The offset supercharger drive pulley on the crank will be putting a lot of stress on that bolt. If it's not quite tensioned enough then you may get slight movement of the pulleys on each other, and also on the bolt face. This will cause fretting which will slowly wear the mating faces. Eventually this will effectively make the bolt lose tension, and then it will start loosening itself. If I were you I'd transfer the timing marks you need onto a steel pulley and use that welded to the supercharger crank pulley. Then the load (which is a much bigger bending moment than what comes from the stock pulley / belt forces) should be transferred to the crank, which has a better chance of dealing with it than the bolt.
Joel ·
thanks for that info Wes
thats the way id been thinking of going but the main prob is the valance
if u weld the blowers pulley to a stock crank pulley the engine wont clear the valance bolting it in/out
and there wasnt enough room to slide it onto the crank when the engines bolted in
i dont really wanna hack my car up for the sake of a removable valance, but the way things are going i may have to
my other rotary bug had a fibreglass john shearman one fitted but the inner gaurds are fairly flimsy when the bumper isnt bolted on which i dont like
i had all the other problems covered tho
ive changed the pulley offset since the original build now its only about half what it was which has allowed my original quiet pack header to fit back on
the pulley butts right up against the crank pulley with a 75mm surface and to locate it there was a shoulder machined up that sat inside the crank pulley flange
unfortunatly tho this bit got lost when the bolt fell out
i did get a longer bolt tho, it was only standard grade as i didnt see the pioint in going high tensile
it did work out fine i was just slack when i bolted it up last time cos the crank was trying to turn over when i did it up
but really its the same setup up as original A/C compressors and the blower has alot less load than compressor with a high headpressure in summer would
aintgotitmusthaveit,
just took some measurements for u
the top of the blower is 35mm above the fan housing which is a standard doghouse one ( the aftermarket 36hp doghouse are a tad lower)
and its 355mm from the top of the case where the joint is to the top of the blower
u could go abit lower if were running a generator or moved the blower left or tilted it more
ive just been away on 2 weeks holiday so i still havent got the 1776 back in yet but ill let u know wwhat jetting i end up with
HTH
Joel
Joel ·
oops i just realised ur other question from the fan housing out to the end of the pulley is 290mm
greedy53 ·
keeping ya busy mate i feel for ya but we must teach grasshoper
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
Thanks Joel for all your help. Grass hopper has a lot to learn still!
So dubbers...Project vw 356-SC has started
Bought a 40mm delorto off ebay and the SC from ebay US with intercoller and throttlebody( perhaps 2009 project!!)
Anyway will post details of the build once I start.
Thanks again Joel. Any info you pass on is much appreciated
camando ·
Sounds awesome.
So what setup are you going for?
intercooled EFI ? 😎
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
As stated going carbed for now. Keeping it cheap-as proof on concept.
Eventually will go efi if still interested///
Joel ·
good luck with it
trust me there will be times when u wanna toss a match at it, beleive me i almost did lol
but the dells are a pretty sweet carb to work with
replacement jets are easy to get on ebay
i just soldered up an old set and kept reaming them out till i got it to run sweet then orderd a new set in the right sizes.
i also got a new set of venturies as well
carbs keep it simple to start with
im gonna setup a megasquirt controlled EFI on mine soon and probably go air to water charge cooler due to space constrictions but i know theres a lot of work ahead in doin that and it wont be an overnight project
im not on here much lately so just PM me for my email or MSN
-Joel
bt12 ·
dub74L
I had some questions but I'm too new to PM you. Can you PM me?
Joel ·
my bug gets pinkslipped the sarvo so i had planned on removing the blower but the boys reckon its fine and legal so im leaving it for now
but i decided b4 it came out to see what the old girl could really do so i opened her up pretty well yesterday on a "close circuit race track"
heres how she did
not bad for a 10 year old 1600
matberry ·
She pulls hard. Great work👍
reub ·
Just as well that's a private road hey 😂
Good work mate.
Ampdub ·
I like that superchargers can just be bolted on but the only prob is the calculation of the pulley and not easy to adjust boost. also it takes up a lot of room and i want to fit aircon. but what a great conversion. well done
Joel ·
changing boost is a piece of piss
i just have a few different size pulleys just bolt a new one on.
its running 10psi now which is the max id give a stock engine if i lay into it to hard now it pings abit but water injection fixes that
i plan on installing A/C eventually too
there still room to bolt the compressor to the stock position and run it off the same belt as the blower.
which makes it easier to get a compressor cos all cars now run with ribbed belts not Vbelts anymore
Just an update i got the pink slip done today and luckily i know the mechanic pretty well and he passed it for me but he siad it requires an engineers certificate to be legal
but after checking it out said i would have no probs getting one
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
I was looking at the throttle body on Pulsar today and it got me thinking about your plans to go EFI. Have you considered using a throttle body with built in injectors from a Pulsar/Camira or early EFI falcon. You could mount one in place of your carb, but that would no good for inter cooling, or maybe you could mount one on each side, a bit like twin Webbers and blow through them.
Steve
Joel ·
Hi Steve,
that was actually one of the ways i was thinking of going
i was talking with ian swinkles about it the other day on SBO but it seems to have crashed atm
seemed like an easy alternative, twin JD camira/n13 pulsar TBI on either side with a megasquirt ECU
but an ordinary throttle body inplace of my current dell and some FI style end manifold pieces would be just as easy too...
i do have a complete AC delco multi port system here but it has no ECU
but anyway i picked up a HIF SU carb today that im gonna have a tinker with
they work well in blow thro and my bug still has my makeshift return fuel line from my original blow thro turbo setup
Flintstones ·
Why don't you get something like an injection perfection style throttle body which has the injector ports cast into it.
Do dells and webers have the same bolt locations as well as intake runners?
Cheers
Joel ·
im pretty sure that DHLA dells have the same mounts as DCOE webers
but going blow thro would be nice cos i could make up a charge cooler but fitting it somewhere is the real issue
greedy53 ·
a blow through is a really bugger of a job as the carby has to be sealed everywhere the butterflys need to seal dellort have a bearing that works also webber but any leaks cause the whole system to falter as the whole system is under pressure
if you run water injection with the system you have now you can pickup another 10 hp and cool the blower and heads at the same time
good to see ya having fun mate good luck
Joel ·
mmmmm....... twin blowers
i picked myself up another one so i could start mocking up my fuel injection with out taking it off
warning boost is addictive.... dads eyeing this one off for his trike and i'd love to put it on my other mainstream pussbox but that would mean losing A/C and powersteering which on a daily driver is something im not prepared to live without
but as we all know twin toyota blowers on a bug has certainly been done b4........
bit much for a mild street car tho i imagine
altho twin baby aisin AMR300 blowers on VWs has been done plenty of times b4
but anywayz
not muc to update on
ive been enjoying driving the stock 1600 to much to do much else yet
altho a few months ago i did do some mods so i could fit my quiet pack back on
the 4-2-1 hotdog system i built originally did have a nice roar about it but roar was exactly what it was
long trips resulted in headaches, the cops always glared at me when i passed them in town and 3 times it set off the alarm in my other car when starting up in the garage
this made it a totally different car to drive
so much smoother down low and just incredibaly quiet
most ppl ask me what kind of engine im running now cos it doesnt sound or go like a volkswagen anymore LOL
the torque this little engine is giving is just incredible
up big hills it can pull away from 6cyl falcons and commodores
its definetley got more torque than my '04 3.0L turbo diesel navara work hack
anywayz ive finally got my 1776 decompressed and ready to go back in
its just whether i get off my ass and do it in time for dubs by the pub
greedy53 ·
2 blowers now there is a chalenge if i ever seen one but i'm just to old to drive such a beaste as i don't have teath to grind any more but i can hang my tongue out and look like i'm thinking when i'm really trying to remember where i live
so you are happy i gather with the ediction to torgue if i am reading this right
and dont forget my jets will ya when ya finished will do no rush
steve
Joel ·
havent 4gotton them
the torque..... well lets just say i wouldnt have beleived it was possible till i drove it for myself
u have no idea the evil u have unleashed 🤘
gonna have to go thro all the bullshit of rejetting again when the 1776 goes back in which im not looking forward too
was frustrating enough the first time
but this little bad boys been sitting on my desk for a while begging for a play
altho reprofileing needles is probably more challenging than reaming out jets
dangerous ·
There's those macamadamias again.
Mmmm, macamadamias.
Just some history and related fab for the project
Sorry to hijack....kind of related.
Kinda.... 😂
greedy53 ·
well sorry about the obsession but i just had to do it
and when you through the 1776 in you will have to alter the air flow fuel is no problem but air is it can only flow the size of the carby so be ware the su looks about a 2 inch and that will be ok
good luck and happy torquing
Joel ·
1 3/4" center float HIF 👍
cheers for the link dave thats some interesting reading
i really wanna dyno mine once the engine is swapped but also id be interested to do it both with the twin webbers and the blower just to see how the torque changes
i manage a macca plantation so im surrounded by the bloody things pretty much 24/7
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
Dub74L Q for you.
Withthe extraboost and I guess higher resuting oil pressures, have you had eny new oil leaks?
I could not see any crank case ventilation from the pics..
frenzix ·
can i borrow your lismore workers club card?
Joel ·
frenzix wrote:can i borrow your lismore workers club card?
LOL yeah but ive already burned out my free beer ticket
aintgotitmusthaveit wrote:Dub74L Q for you.
Withthe extraboost and I guess higher resuting oil pressures, have you had eny new oil leaks?
I could not see any crank case ventilation from the pics..
the boost and blower has no effect on case ventilation and oil pressure
theres no connection/relationship between the 2
basically the whole setup works as standard with the obvious exception of the blower
i do run a bugpack breather system on my 1776
u can see its still mounted on my firewall however i did run the old 1835 for a while with out it
it doesnt really make all that much diff
mainly for higher compression motors that have heaps of case pressure
my old 1835 had a 9.2 CR and abit of blow by so it often leaked from the rocker covers
camando ·
altho twin baby aisin AMR300 blowers on VWs has been done plenty of times b4
Hey i'm interested in this do you have any pics of the twin amr setup?
btw, this an AMR300
Joel ·
commando im not sure exactly what kind of blowers are on daves splitty but their very similar to amr300
im sure with a bit of imagination u could make up a twin amr300 setup in the same manner
but what ever those ones are theres a few around
probbaly dick landy
camando ·
Who is this Dave you speak about 😎
has he completed it yet?
Would be good to see one sorted for the road
not the strip or show like the 2 above.
I seached everywhere but cant find any threads on it.
Seriously considering since if i am fitting a turbo it will have to be high to allow for the gravity fed oil return. no probs with this conversion, just need to leave room for the air conditioning compresser
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
After looking at your installation I asked myself is there any reason why you could not drive off the generator with a seperate belt and additional pully?
Was just thinking that providing you could find a belt small enough, then you could use the brace off the generator that supports the SC and rotate the supercharge counterclockwise to tension the belt. This would do away with the need to drive off the crank and modify the exhaust and the tinware too! My guessis the gene should be able to handle it.
Joel ·
if it was that easy trust me i would have gone the same way
the main problem with doing it that way is the load it would place on the genny bearings would kill them in no time at all
the standard vw fan belt is also set with a set amount of deflection (15mm to be exact)
this is so at high revs theres a certain amount of slip happening, its very minimal but something that u dont want happening driving the blower
i have the blower very tight cos once u start getting up over 8psi its pretty easy for the belt to slip
if u had the same tension on the genny belt it would fry the bearings in it and also wear out the fan belt pretty quick
the reason my crank bolt fell out a few months back was cos i was showing a mate what it could do and hit 10psi a few times which goes to show the forces required to spin it at high revs/psi
i never indexed the blower driver pulley to the crank pulley
it relies wholey on tension of the crank bolt to hold it in place
ive been meaning to put in some locating pins of some sort for a while now but just havent gotten around to it
im a highschool drop out so someone like wes would be able to give u a more scientific explanation for it
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
Don't be to hard on yourself for being a high school drop out, many highly educated people would be unable to accomplish what you have done.
Steve
humpty ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi Joel
Don't be to hard on yourself for being a high school drop out, many highly educated people would be unable to accomplish what you have done.
Steve
Right on Steve.... I'm a high school teacher Joel (Design and Technology), and I can tell for nothing that few of my students could adjust the chain on their bike, let alone do the sort of mods you have there on your Super B...
Joel ·
well incase ppl havent guessed im more of a hands on tradey type so my HSC would have been pointless to me anyway so i left school early and got an apprenticeship
1303Steve ·
Hi Humpty
I didn't know you were a chalky. I bet your students like attending your lessons. One of my sons teachers drives a T3 and a Kingswood street machine, he's got lots of cred with the kids.
Steve
humpty ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi Humpty
I didn't know you were a chalky. I bet your students like attending your lessons. One of my sons teachers drives a T3 and a Kingswood street machine, he's got lots of cred with the kids.
Steve
Been a graphic designer for the past 20 years, but went to uni back in 03... 2.5 degree's later (got through them quick!) and I'm now a high school teacher!.... Most of my students think I'm a little strange... Normal teachers don't built HiPo dubs, low rider bicycle and steel sculptures!!!!.... They do love what I do to my dubs and they all want to help with the mods (especially what I'm doing on the POS60).... I'm pretty lucky really.... My principle use to be a pro rally navigator in the Euro circuit, so I'm given a lot of slack with subject matter and student projects...
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
Thanks Joel,
Still brainstorming on the driven off the gene idea. (I like the idea of trying to do sit different... fellow forum members please critique).
Bearings I assume will crap out as a result high a load, but I am guessing if one switched the belt from a V to a toothed belt then the load on the gene bearing would be significantly reduced if not eliminated. But in this case there will be no slippage on the gene I am not sure if this will stall the cooling fan though.
So toothed crank pulley to toothed Gene pulley and then a toothed gene to toothed supercharger!
What da ya reckon joel? Could you aslo explain this 15mm slip thing to me.
I want to try and stay away from modifying the rear apron and then needing to mod my exhaust. From what I saw on you pics you cut yours away right?
Joel ·
agimhi,
my first attempt had alot of butchery in the exhaust/ pulley department
the main problem was the standard SC12 pulley has the belt a fairway out from the blower itself
u can see here on my spare one
its abit over an inch
cos it stuck out so far it was hitting the runner of #4 so i had to build that abortion of an exhaust
but since then ive put a new pulley on the blower that has the belt right up against it
ironically its another pulley from the 4A toyota motor
this allowed me to move the blowers crank pulley back in alot closer and put my quiet pack back on
i just had to cut a clearance slot in the breast tin to fit past the pulley then theres another piece i bent up that covers this once its in place altho ive missplaced in and havent run with it for quite a while
with my decklid standoffs its doesnt worry the engine
even with no breast tin at all it wasnt hot at all BUT only cos i have it stood off and 4 sets of vents
this really isnt ideal in any car tho
with the belt i reckon cog toothed style belts would be over kill and cost the earth
theyre more the domain of blown V8s
i was under the same impression as most ppl that serpentine belt kits on bugs is a waste of $$ and purely for show till i got to check out kims oval at dubs by the pub
i didnt beleive it till i witnessed it with my own eyes how much quieter and smoother these make the engine
im thinking about making the change now if i have the room for it
with the belt tension deal u should have about 15mm movent in the belt when u push on it
any more than this it will slip and less and it will kill the genny bearings
ive just heard over the years so im not 100% sure at higher revs the fan will slip a tiny bit so its not holding the engine back so much
maybe an urban legend but i can see the logic in the thinking
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
Cool Joel. Any idea of the exact pulley details you changed it out with? I want one!!
How do you take the damn pulley off anyway? how do you stop the thing from spinning when you torque the bolt? I was hoping an impact wrench woud get it off.
I was thinking I could realtively easily adapt something!
And it would look cool!
mactaylor ·
blank toothed pulleys are available from bearing and belt shops in many different styles. they are left blank so you can machine to fit dunno if the boss would be big enough for a crank pulley with oil returns but you might get lucky. we used an 25mm wide ally toothed pulley on the sports sedan that run 2 X s102 sprintex chargers and never got belt slip again. also if you do change to a toothed belt dont put to much tension on them as harmonics become an issue.
Joel ·
its the crank pulley off a 4A toyota
i used to have a 92 CSi corolla and remembered that the alternator belt on them was 5pk same as the blower
the smaller 3pk pulley segment runs a/c and powersteering pump
u need to makesure if u go this way to get the one for a/c and steer
i made alittle breaker bar thing to get the nut undone
assuming urs has the same mr2/SX corolla clutch like mine
the 4 screws on the outer rim that hold the clutch cover on... get a lenth of metal and drill holes to bolt it up to to of them
u can hold this to stop it turning while u undo the nut
greedy53 ·
i'm running a v belt covering all the bits crank genny blower i found that you could leave the belt loose as per recomended and by using a 2 tenser systek on the down side it only puts pressure on the blower
dont ask my why i have ben racking my small brain and the only reason i can se is that after the blower it must use fung sway or voo doo but it works one side loose and after the first tensioner tight i do use 2 tensioners one for main pressure and the other just after pushing the other way traping the belt in the gap left
i wlill get a happy snap and post
Joel ·
are u still running it like this?
greedy53 ·
no the tensener is on the other side i will get some pics, about half way down the white 1 pushes in and and a larger dia pulley pushes out i found that it keeps good tension on the belt on the down side by pushing it from the 90% to around 30% and stoping ANY FLEX WHILE THE GENNY SIDE REMAINS SLAVK WELL TO A POINT THE SECRET IS THE V THAT THYE BELT HAS BY MAKING IT SWING UNDER THE BLOWER PULLEY IT MAKES THE DOWN TENSION GREATER THAN THE UP AND OVER TENSION BLOODY CAPS please dont ask me why or how i'm a lunch break drop outit just is
greedy53 ·
here is a pic of the belts see the differant amount of belt footprint on each pully the more contact the better pull and less is less torque on the bearings i have been playing around with this setup after seeing a write up on hotrod mag an early book before injection
Turbo54 ·
I have had a few blown commodores and was running decent boost but always getting belt slip. I went from 6rib to 8rib and had to tighten up the belts so tight I ended up breaking a bolt off inside the blower shaft.
It was also robbing huge amounts of power from the engine as there was load on the crank a bit like running the AC constantly. I then got a toothed (glimer) belt drive and didn't have to tighten the belts much at all and gain loads of hp. I recommend anyone doing this especially with a VW motor as the crank is only held by the case and to keep overheating from friction under control. My 0.2c.
T54
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
I saw this setup on a bug at the Bug in, no slip with this.
Steve
Joel ·
hi Steve, thanks for the pic
if i was starting from scratch again id go that style to but the current 5 rib belt system is working with no slipping
well it only took me 5 and half months of procrastinating but the 1776 is finally back in
so for those interested the 1600 was in for 5.5 months in that time it did 2700kms most of which was round town and out to work and back
but it did one trip to brisbane and back and another up to caloundra for dubs by the pub
the only issues i had in that time were belt/pulley and throttle cable dramas and all were my own fault not the cars
humpty ·
Top effort joel.... Now get out there and scare some Honda drivers!
greedy53 ·
no worries mate if it rocks ya boat good, i just wanted to do it differant this time and cutting the fan shroud had the oppersite effect the right bamk ran hot not the left bank i fixed it by removing the small air choker on that side in the shroud and putting a small one on the left bank making the aip compress a bit allowing the right bamk to get more air i took it to the bugin as it's only done 30 klm's over the tast 5 years and doing that let me see if all was ok and it was
how is yours going good i hope
Joel ·
i couldnt be happier with the way its goin
the way it just eats big hills for breakfast all with a stock 1600 truly blows me away
i used to worry when i saw a big hill coming b4 i fitted it but now it climbs with ease and will actually pick up speed when u put ur foot down not slow down more
ive only driven the 1776 from my parents place to mine which is about 1.5kms but even in that it managed to scare me a bit
coming thro a round about in 2nd i put my foot down leaving and the boost gauge shot up to 10 psi and it was off
really launched me into the seat
i forgot how much a lightend flywheel and cam gets u movign
Joel ·
Turbo54 wrote:I have had a few blown commodores and was running decent boost but always getting belt slip. I went from 6rib to 8rib and had to tighten up the belts so tight I ended up breaking a bolt off inside the blower shaft.
It was also robbing huge amounts of power from the engine as there was load on the crank a bit like running the AC constantly. I then got a toothed (glimer) belt drive and didn't have to tighten the belts much at all and gain loads of hp. I recommend anyone doing this especially with a VW motor as the crank is only held by the case and to keep overheating from friction under control. My 0.2c.
T54
was that on an EFi commy in blow thro format?
it seems these blowers prefer to be in draw thro and thats how they all came from the toyota factory as well
they spin very happilly in a manifold vacuum
when there running aganst the throttle plate is when it starts to have restrictions and then holds the motor back
i can actuallly set my belt pretty loose and still not have much slip till it gets up around 8 psi
dangerous ·
Some blowers should never use toothed belts.
If there is ever a cough or back fire it will damage the blower.
I used 10 groove multi vee for my blowers because there were no keys in the drive,
and the spring loaded tensioner will unload if it trys to go backward.
Sounds like a real rocket Joel.
Nice work.
rocknrob ·
Hi Joel, you mention the cam in your 1776...do you know you don't want too much overlap when using boost? goes straight out the exhaust! anyway top job👍
greedy53 ·
i dont know what blow back valving you use joe i'm using a wrx blow off and it works sweet had a few big bangs and diden't even stop the enging a really good system
Joel ·
thanks Dave, i agree with u toothed belts are for topfuel dragsters not low PSI street VWS lol
im pretty happy with the way the 5rib belts working out
Rob, cam choice isnt as critical with a supercharger as it is with a turbo but yeah like u said u dont want to much overlap
mines a pretty mild tighe cam its their "fast street twin carb" model and is equivilent to a engle 110
Steve i used a greddy style plumb back BOV so i could plumb it out of the engine bay but thats yet to happen
u can see it infront of the coil in the picture above
its gone off twice when cold starting after i half flooded it
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
Joel,
Did you consider using the original blow off valve that was on the throttlebody?
I was going to use it and if anyone recommends not doing so let me know....
Joel ·
none of mine came with the recirc bypass valve
i dont know that u could use it for the purpose of spit back protection tho
as all it does is bypass around the supercharger when the clutch isnt engaged
ive also got myself an SC14 supercharger now that im having a tinker around with but so far its like i thought just to long to fit under a bugs decklid
well i guess while im here i should put the link up
i took a vid with the 1776 back in but its a really shitty video cos i cant change gears, steer and film at once with a steady hand
but anyway...
humpty ·
You gotta get that camera mounted in the car dude.... It'll be loads safer and your images will be a little more steady.... specially if your camera has a steady cam function installed...
Get to it!😂
Bizarre ·
DUB74L wrote:cos i cant change gears, steer and film at once with a steady hand
Joel
Hold the camera with your teeth! 🤓
Bizarre ·
Joel - if i am watching you right, you start accelerating at 7 or 8 seconds.
At 15 secs the big hand touches 100.
Your doing sub 8 secs 0-100?? 👍
OK - just re-read your Members ride post.
7.5 secs.
BLOODY IMPRESSIVE
Joel ·
i need a proper video camera
all those vids on youtube are all just shot on my mobile
it doesnt record sound real well it sounds like im shifting gears like a grandma
the cam in the 1776 seems to agree with the blower ok luckily but this motor having a lightened flywheel really seems to charge upto 3500 but from there on it doesnt feel much different from the 1600 but i havent got the jetting right yet either
greedy53 ·
mate i have been talking to mick in gelong and he has installed the popjoy 1916 twin spark engine with the supercharger running 10 lb bost stan said it was ok and now he's gone from a blown 1600 getting 83 horses on the dino to the 1916 blown 110 hp shit i'm impressed i think i gave you his email worth a chat
Joel ·
yea ive spoken to mick he gave me his number
but shit me wow.
altho i would of at expected more than 110 at the wheels
stans 1916 standard head motors with Kdogs were good for about 120 at the flywheel....
im still messing around with the jetting on mine
the weather hasnt been very co-operative since i put the 1776 back in a few weeks ago so i havent been able to get it out of the shed much
ive also been ginning around on a spare engine trying to get my new SC14 to fit, its only about 40mm longer but its just that bit to much
it really sux im back to running 3 cars again at the moment which is cleaning me out abit and now all the cheap blowers are popping up
a toyota bloke i know had a low km 12 for $160 the other day...spewin
Ampdub ·
MMMM I liked this so much I just picked one up for myself. gunna do, gunna do. so excited to start. will have to do a lot of research so i dont stuff it up though
Joel ·
have fun with it
its a long slow process but the end result is worth it
i went abit silly a while back and bought a few extra blowers
i was gonna make up a few kits but then i got lazy and cant be arsed now that and i just dont have time
ill probably put them up for sale soon
ones an SC14 tho
im actuallly already running a smaller pulley than stock on it without a clutch but those ones on ebay are for a SC14 not 12
he does make SC12 pulleys but at $293 u can get entire blowers for that
its already runnning pretty high boost itll hit 10psi in 1st and 2nd which is way to much for a stock bottom end
frenzix ·
joel, how much will you charge if i drop down a good 1776 for you to blow (i havn't asked how much for a blow in years)
camando ·
Thought i'd add to this
I'm running twin AMR500s on a 1640
just because i could 🙂
I'm sure one would be more efficient, but hey, Joel has already done it 👍
it's only been out a few times so its still getting sorted.
jetting etc.
Drawing though DCNs
no blow off as the belts slip on back fire.
trust me 😊
but christ it is a lot louder
need to go some 3ways on the pipes
had extractors but wanted to expose the engine 😎
bet it sounds mean when u sink the hoof in
u have glove box full of earplugs??
how have u found tuning the carbs??
ive got a pair of DCNs im thinking of blowing thro with a single blower
camando ·
Thanks Joel
Havent properly tuned it yet.
As I said its only just got running.
I'll throw a o2 sensor on and start soon.
so havent pushed it too hard yet either.
give you a woody though 😂
Joel ·
they ok for a rough guide
i went more by feel and plugs for jetting
76bug ·
hi joel
what sort of sensor did u use
Joel ·
hi,
its just a universal 3 wire heated unit
same one most EFI cars use
76bug ·
a 5 wire sensor with a wide band unit such as a tech edge or inovate will give u much more acurate readings
Ampdub ·
I started with my mock up, just a question, a dual vac dissy was mentioned and i found this
but in what configurations is it installed? which vac goes to where? if it sorts out any flat spots think it could be good.
Joel ·
a wide band woulda been nice but it woulda end up owing as much as the entire setup
i actually got it setup and running without one at all
i installed mine later on to see how close i was
my goal with the blower was to prove i could double my hp for under $1k and get performance as good as running a turbo
alot of ppl will argue superchargers have no topend...🙄
i guess for all intents and purposes for the most part i pulled it off
going all out with instrumentation woulda been overkill
ampdub re. the dissy u want it to retard under boost
i got one of those same double advance dizzys coming
what i was gonna try was limiting the mechanical advance and timing it to max out at 24* and putting a one way valve on the vac line connected to the advance side and tap it to the inlet manifold somewhere after the blower
that way the timing will advance with rpms like normal but retard when under boost
i must say tho im pretty happy with the way the plain ol 009 with limited wieghts has worked out
Ampdub ·
Hmmm, i think i need a diagram or i think i will stuff this up. i have a 009 with electric ignition so will see how it goes modifying it. i like a challenge as well as the next bloke.
greedy53 ·
hay girls keep it simple until you are happy with it and you understand how it works before you try inventing the wheel
how are you going joel
Joel ·
amp ill draw u one up tomoro when i havnt been enjoying saturday night drinks
steve still havent put it back on yet
been enjoying the wonderful fuel economy of a stock 1600 with a 1300 carb LOL
76bug ·
you can buy a tech edge wide band unit for about 400 bucks
Joel ·
i guess i should update this
i actually went for a few months with no blower
wish i had $1 for everyone at valla that wanted to see it...😂
after putting it on the 1776 for a bit and upping the boost turned out shitty head studs i used and boost dont mix
the head studs stretched abit and when i retentioned them abit 3 snapped, 1 about 2mm out of the case....
well im sure most of NSW heard my expletives at the time
so i got a nice new set of scat chrome moly puppies off boris and watched them collect dust untill i built up the courage to tear my 4000km old engine back to bits agian to remove the offending stud some how
but its all back togther and running sweet at now
also while it was apart i took the chance to get my tinware powdercoated....its bloody bright 🤪
i was more than happy with the current setup but when the chance came up to buy a bunch of Solex 32DIS carbs came up i grabbed them
blow thro just offers the chance to intercool, make a more compact installation and slightly less restriced intake breathing thro twin carbs
these carbs are almost identical to type3/4 PDSIT and kadrons just fitted with all the boost enrichment bits and seals needed to run blow thro so adapting them isnt hard
my first turbo setup i built what seems like eons ago used one of these on a stock 1600
they pretty much bolt straight onto a stock manifold and only need a main jet change and there good to go upto 12psi or the 15psi mine did when the wastegate jammed and blew the rings to pieces quite literally
theyre pretty hard to find in aus. afaik the only aus cars that used them were the KA whitelightning turbo lasers which is what my first one came from and a few models of renault
anyway my plan is to jam them on a pair of k-dog manifolds make up linkages and some new boost piping
ive also worked out a WRX intercooler is gonna do the job so perfectly just sitting above the fan housing between the decklid hinges
now all i need is some time to do it which is the biggest hurdle off all atm
the farm is keeping me busy about 10-12 hrs a day atm so working on the dub is the last thing i feel like and having 3 other projects on the go atm isnt helping either
Joel ·
oh yea heres why SC14 blowers just dont work on type1 engines
theyre just too long....
Bizarre ·
now you are just showing off 👍
rocknrob ·
Hi Joel...when you say the SC14 is too long...can you measure how long it is for me? might fit nicely on my EJ22👍
rocknrob ·
heheh...don't worry about it...found that they are 31cm compared to 27cm for the sc12...doesn't matter heaps of room in the kombi...was going to go turbo but all i want is more low down grunt...sounds good for that😀
Joel ·
its about 50mm difference
i could prob make it work in the bug but the pulley would be so close to the valance it wouldnt be funny and the lenghts of standoffs needed for clearance would put the decklid about 3kms away from the body
i sold one of my spares to steve and he was thinking of whacking it on a subi
would make for one torquey engine
HEy Joel, Did you ever sort out that jetting on the 1776
Joel ·
hey nick
looks like ur running a DCOE weber?
mines a dell DHLA so theres abit of difference between them
legend has it dells are equal to next size up weber or so they say
40mm dell is equiv to a 44mm weber
dunno how true it is
but its been ages since ive had my carb top off but from memory the mains for the 1776 were 145s and idles were 65s, pump jets 40s and 200 airs
i also switched from 32mm vents to 28s, improved bottom end dramatically on both 1600 and 1776
neat job on your manifolds 👍
only thing i would say is fit a BOV somewhere so if it spitsback u wont find bits of your blower lobes 3 streets away
mine has burped a couple of times b4, never while running but when cranking over
BOV goes off like a gun shot, just making sure your awake for the journey
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
thanks Joel.
Havent ground the manifolds back yet. Thats this weekends job.
Planning on putting a BOV in there before start up; just trying to source one that I can fit on that plate on the SC outlet.
Picking up pulley and tensioner this weekend from wreckers
Its a long term project . Something to tinker on when I am bored....
Will keep you up to date!
PS Bought A dellorto to start with but had a riser on it that hit the deck lid so switched to a weber.
Newt ·
Greedy
Whats it like for cooling with a portion ofthe fan housing removed?
Newt
greedy53 ·
i had to rework the fan shroud insides it worked that well that 3-4 were cool but 1-3 were getting hot so of with the setup and reworked again now great
i also tossed the stock oil cooler for better airflow now using a remote cooler very good now
inside the fan shroud there are ahost of baffles 3-4 were easy just cut all the crap out for the oil cooler than 1-2 needed to be opened up and rewor5ked
if you are going to have a go find an old style fan shroud with no heater outlets and the oil cooler inside
happy blowing
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
Joel,
When you replaced the pulley with the one off the 92 corolla, did you end up keepin the clutch?
You got any photoes of that pulley? http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq10MX3r
Joel ·
Nick i had the clutch on a switch when i first started off
but i never turned it off
if u just drive sedately it behaves exactly like a turbo and doesnt boost, runs a vacuum most of the time
so the 2nd incarnation i did away with the clutch completley
its just the splined center and clutch plate bit bolted to the 4A pulleyi think is the main crank pulley
i'll dig around i have some pics somewhere
Joel ·
found em
so i removed everything off the blower
thats the 4A pulley with the clutch plate sitting in it
so i had a few wins, smaller pulley upped my boost from 8 to 10, got rid of the clutch which was using a bit of power to keep pulled in and also moved the belt in alot closer so i could fit my quiet pack back on
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
Joel,
The item that is in your hand in the first pict is used to react the moment resulting from the tension in the belt.
From what I can tell its used to protect the main bearing on the supercharger itself (the one in the housing).
Did you remove it ?
Was the pulley you used in the end the one off the 92 corolla? The one that hangs off the harmonic balancer and drives the aircon and power steering as you suggested earlier? Does it have a spline drive on it that matches the SC?
Bizarre ·
damn glad you got electronis ignition
Imagine seeting points on that set up 😬
😂
trickysimon ·
Putting oil in looks like it would be a hassle as well 😂
Joel ·
Nick, yea its a cover for the bearing but it also locates a circlip which locks in place the electric field magnet thing that pulls the clutch in
im running without it has been fine for 2000 odd KMs
i went thro a box of pulleys at the wreckers and found that one it had toyota 4A on it and i remember the exs AE92 corolla having one like it drive the power steer and A/C
it just had 4 mounting holes from memory
i used the original clutch splined bit bolted to it
oil is piece of piss
my safistimacated NASA developed mount franklin bottle makes light work of it
Even if i still had points on that thing it changing and gapping them would be a walk in park compared to adjusting the powersteering/Aircon belt on my ford
god damn front wheel drive twin cam frigging engines
u cant even see the f'king belt let alone get ur hands down there to adjust it
reminds me why im not working at the garage anymore
best trick i learned was dont drop spanners with the battery connected i once set off an Airbag on SB barina
now im paranoid ill do it to my own car
Bizarre ·
that will teach you for getting a FORD
😂
Joel ·
i have better standards than that
hehe the only thing ford about that car is the badges
its all mazda which is probably why im always broke after buying parts for it
i replaced that rubber hose between the AFM and the throttle body on monday
$98 for a piece of rubber bloddy hose 🤪
Joel ·
the manual says im only allowed to touch the yellow parts 😂
take it back to ford with a full wallet for anything else
greedy53 ·
geday bloks i have been watching the thread and now want to put my 50 worth in joel the pulley system you are now using is the same as mine in tthe rod .and a fellow blower man has been running 10 bl bost with great power gains nd it makes it at 3.4 revs but stays prett ymuch the same through to 5 rpm
as you know i ued a choped fan shroud with great workings .but the tear drop american fan shroud they use a lot on buggies is vertually the same, with a small chop you can run the 14 ,the shroud looks like a tear drop with a normal 1-2 but the 3-4 is at the end that slopes from the top of the fan hole to the end of the shroud
my job works well if you stand at the back of the bug the rotation is clock wise with the fan rotating from top and there it feeds the right side and as it goes further it pushes the air across to the left side . the insides stock stop the air from going direct because it has passed through the oil cooler so it hits a baffel redirecting the air up where a vacume causes it to hed towards the 3-4 , with the cut i am using it forces the air acrocc to 3-4 because the area above it blocked off and haveing no baaffels to stop it makes it a must to alter the baffels to 1-2
shit riters cramp
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
Hey Joel,
Just figured out what you did.
Looks like you have screwed past the clutch plate into the other pulley you found?
Off to the wreckers this weekend to see what I can source.. Fingured crossed
Joel ·
yeah thats it
altho i just realised that pic i put up was attempt #1 which failed
i ended up drilling out the rivets and adding extra bolts for strength
that setup works but im gonna redesign it yet again to use the original denso pulley but run without the clutch
Newt ·
Greedy
I noticed that you laid the blower on its side. Given there is oil in the rear section of the blower, does this lead to lubrication issues?
Cheers
Newt
greedy53 ·
good see the blowers have blank oil point that has to be drilled out and tapped you can use the same dipstick
and than block of the old hole with a brass blank plug. i draned the oil out and measured te amount rang toyota help and was told the oil stayed the same a.mount so far so good
Joel ·
i figured some of the followers may be interested in this
a guy from germany contacted me the other day
he has a couple of those subaru AMR blowers hes playing around with
hes got an AMR300 that he's fitting to a 1200 engine bolted up to the original manifold and a bigger AMR500 on a 1300 DP mounted similar to mine
Joel ·
there was a 68 semi auto bug for sale near here a while back that had one of those AMR300s and a 2" SU
i saw it at warwick drags last year but unfortunatley the blower is long gone off it
mymedusa ·
hi joel,..funny to find that at a google search...
first the AMR300 is on a 36HP engine driven 3:1 ..the engine has some modifications but same stuff like stock engine just improved the most parts + a cam grinded to porsche preA dimensions.
29,6mm inlet valves 28 outlet valves.
the engine runs but at the moment way to lean. but it pushes 0,9 bar =13 psi.
the engine has water/methanol injection what is in off position at the moment and i have no heating problems CHT goes to 125°C.
the engine goes like hell and i think it has something between 60-70 DIN PS. if the A/F ratio is perfekt i will go on a dynotest. at the moment the clutch can't hold the power.
here some videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/mymedusa
the second engine is a 1200 engine with 1300 double port heads 35,5/32 valves, tsc 10 cam and and and...but engine is not build ready because i wait since 3rd january 09 of my parts wich sould be machined 🙁 the engine has also free programmable injection and ignition, watercooled intercooler...and some special stuff
it has time and i think i will change alot on the engine during the next months because my goal now is 150 PS out of that tiny engine
this is the 36HP engine but some small changes in optics will follow
Smiley ·
I just finished reading this whole post and I have to say that you have done a brilliant job Joel. I'm really inspired to put a blower on my Baja now. The torque would be such and asset offroad.
Roughly how much would this cost to do if I had an engine and just needed to get the blower, carb, make an inlet manifold and all the little things?
cb john ·
The last kit I've built came to $ 1800...you certainly can get it cheaper by scavenging the junkyards....but if you can do some work yourself it gets yet cheaper...
Joel ·
hey Kris good to see you found the place
coming along nicely
talk about a small world
smileyman that posted below you owns the maroon bug with amr300 that i posted
Joel ·
smiley, theres lots of varibles
blower cost being the big one
going rate for an SC12 these days if u can find one is $300-400
i was well stocked on them for a while but slowly started getting rid of them, Steve Carter got my last spare
but heres a rough list of the main things u'll need
blower
Carb and air cleaner
pulleys
belt
tenisioner
mounting brackets
manifold pipeing and rubber joiners
electric fuel pump
throttle cable
lots of fuel and vacum hose
BOV
etc etc etc
mymedusa ·
joel is right ...the blower is just a part.
my small amr300 coast 200 australian dollar and shipping to me 150$ ..funny right?
my beltdrive i had bought from a std gear builder in germany they do gears and all this stuff. maedler.de coast about 150 $ after machining them to my dimensions + belt
the rest i did by my own. the carb i use is a new 34 pci from bmw700....because my engine is vintage speed...have to look like in the 50's
so my big parts without shipping
200
150
150=500 $
same price coast the water methanol injektion that i installed 🙁
and i think 100-150$ for smal parts ...pipes, metal, welding stuff, sealing , throttle cable, bolts....
so if you can do alot at your own you can hold the money low...i think my coasts could be less but i had a strictly clean plan in vintage stuff.
but now i have 13 psi of boost on a early 36hp engine ...judson, mag and pepco superchargers from the 50's and 60's goes up to 7 psi and coast 3-5 times of my build.
one special thing i use is a changed original 36HP distributor with under pressure tin from a saab9000 turbo.
this tin can not only hold pressure this tin also has a adjusting in late at boost...but i don't have testet it out how good it works....next step is adjusting A/F ratio and ignition timing
fast68 ·
Any one got any new updates with there projects??
ian.mezz ·
fast68 wrote:Any one got any new updates with there projects??
My blower's still hiding out in the shed with my VW engines, been half arsedly looking for an engineless bug to put it in.
aintgotitmusthaveit ·
MInes been going strong for over a year now. Summer proved I needed an oil cooler- not much air coming in thru the 356 deck lid
I'm actually building up a kit for a mate of mines buggy
Doing it a bit different- building it cheap!
I let you all know once it's in- its a stock 1600dp
fast68 ·
some pic,s would be great, just picked up a sc12 the other day got most of the bits to build a nice 1914, but would like some Opinion's on cams. currently looking at a web 86, fk-41 and clay smith cs-65 with some pauter 1.3 i have.
Joel ·
Gotta be careful with cam choice, you don't want too much overlap.
My 1776 has a Tighe416C cam which is pretty well same specs as an Engle 110 and with the 2 twin throat webers Idled as smooth as an old 1200 but the blower was choppy as hell till it got over 1200rpm
The 1600 with the stock cam didn't have this problem at all, idled like a stocker thanks to the wonders of the stock cams pissy duration.
fast68 ·
The cams i have listed all have less duration than the one you had in your 1776. Tryed to look for under 240@0.050", but unsure on the lift? toss up between the Web and the claysmith maybe?
jamiesc ·
hey joal would you be interested in selling your whole blower setup or know anyone that has one laying around mate?
Smiley ·
jamiesc wrote:hey joal would you be interested in selling your whole blower setup or know anyone that has one laying around mate?
But he's going to fit it to his Subie engine 🥷
Smiley 🙂
jamiesc ·
haha yeah just incase he changes his mind.
Joel ·
Yeah sorry Jamie, I'm hanging on to it, they are too hard to get hold of.
Keep an eye on ebay, they do come up periodically.
A turbo is probably a more realistic option these days.
tweety ·
Yes, have already asked Joel if his SC12 is for sale....nope!!
But I have found one and its being freighted as we speak.
Should go well on top of the Ea81 in tweety. Draw through set up. Want to seek out a 2" SU carbie. My SC12 has a clutch pulley.
My ea81 has a 150mm double crank pulley v-belt. I want to utilise this pulley for the SC. Apparently a v-belt is ok as it will give and slip a little if required. Will see if I can mounth the SC with it rotating for v-belt adjustment rather than a flat pulley on the back of the v-belt.
Should be interesting. Read as much as I can on the web. Looking at 5-8psi. my calculations resulted in me needing a 150-130mm SC pulley for max revs of 5000 on 1781cc. On/off switch for towing yeh!
A SC on top of the engine might just look ok!
and if I hear one more time "should have gone EJ" or "might as well have bought a car" I'll scream!!!! am still happy I went EA. after all its a cult engine now guys!!
Joel ·
You can't use the clutch in a drawthrough carbed setup, blower has to be running all the time.
The blower clutch is for the fuel injected toyota setup where the computer compensates for the blower not running and has a bypass valve around the blower.
In a carbed setup the ignition timing is limited for boost so to disengage the blower you would have to run more advance as its no longer boosted.
I had a couple of instances where the belt came off or the clutch lost power and it will run but not happily due to limited timing and no boost.
Besides it's not achieving anything in a draw through setup, the blower is only doing anything when you nail it, the rest of the time when the engine is not under a load the blower is just free wheeling with the manifold vacuum.
tweety ·
Thanks Joel. I'm running a new thread on a trike forum on superchargers so ahve to get it right so your info is very valuable. Bit like my experience with women ... lol
With the ea81 advanced timing being I think 28 degrees then if it was fixed at say 16 or 20 with no advance at all it would allow me to ride it to a good tune up place for correct timing to be done? I have an electronic dizzy
fast68 ·
Hi Joel or anyone else, any info on running temps, Cylinder head, oil.
tweety ·
I've been told that the VE velometric efficiency of a blown engine will determine the accuracy of the psi obtained.
If a VE of an engine is say 80% and your boost gauge indicates 6psi...you could be achieving 9-10psi in real terms.
is this the case?
I've calculated the VE of a ea81 stock to get .79
Joel ·
Tweety, the watercooled engines are alittle more tolerant to more advance under boost than the old aircooled volksys, you would just have to have a play around see finding how much timing it likes without knocking, but just limiting the advance is alot better than locking it.
Fast68, I saw no changes in oil temp but I'm sure if I had a head temp gauge and nailed it up a big hill I'd see a the head temps creep up abit but nothing worth worrying about.
Before they changed the Pacific highway speed limit on the big St Helena hill at Byron Bay I used to love blasting past all the modern cars at 110km/h up there.
The WTF looks I used to get were priceless.
If it was gonna die that woulda been when and where.
tweety ·
Thanks Joel for a priceless thread. Got a lot of info out of it. Havent received my SC12 yet, still in transit. likely sitting in a freight shed in Shepparton.
This thing will sing its head off and I wont hear the misses. bonus....(I've resisted intercoms haha)
Tony
vdubjim ·
cant wait to find one
Joel ·
Jeez back from the dead.
I've still got my 1776 engine and Supercharger setup to go in another bug (was hoping to build a Baja) but everytime I get one its either too rusty or sold before I get the chance.
I got another Superbug last year with a dead engine I was going to put it in but another member on here came up from Sydney to buy it before I had the chance.
vdubjim ·
lots of posts on the web with this setup but none as through.
also ran across the joeblow.me site. friend of yours?
humpty ·
vdubjim wrote:cant wait to find one
Have a chat to Mick Percy in Adelaide (joeblow.me).... He has a kit to make this kit a bolt in.... It uses a DCOE carb I think.... Its very similar to the one that Joel developed all those years ago.
Have you seen Brocks VRod here in Perth Joel?... I helped him (very minor help) develop a more traditional setup on his car... With twin carbs!
Joel ·
Nope but I'd like to, got a link or pics?
humpty ·
Joel ·
Now that is awesome.
Just needs one of those old school Bee scoop intakes like some of the old Dick Landy blowers for bugs had.
vdubjim ·
micks setup is cool, but $950 us for a bracket and pulleys?? nahh im good
humpty ·
vdubjim wrote:micks setup is cool, but $950 us for a bracket and pulleys?? nahh im good
A bit more too it than that, but im sure you'll come up with a nice setup... Make sure you do a build thread!
vdubjim ·
Reading this post there is??
Note my price, I'm not talking his whole kit..
Speaking of kit.....who was first? Joel or Mick, or they together? I'm curious since your so defensive.
modnrod ·
Joel wrote:Just needs one of those old school Bee scoop intakes ..........
I'm with you Joel!
I like them a lot too.......
😁
Joel ·
Holy crap Dave is that a NOS bottle on that kwaka?
vdubjim wrote:Speaking of kit.....who was first? Joel or Mick, or they together? I'm curious since your so defensive.
Micks kits were a few years after mine but I'm certainly not the first person to stuff an SC12 on a VW engine, probably just the first to document in depth
modnrod ·
Joel wrote:Holy crap Dave is that a NOS bottle on that kwaka?
You'd be amazed how many people believed me when I said it was a fire extinguisher! 😂
That Volksrod over here is just a ripper. I have the hugest respect for the builders Zen-like patience in getting a plate on it over here, truly remarkable.
tweety ·
I planted a SC12 on my ea81 Brumby engine on my trike. Now its NA. If you do it, water injection is a waste of time and money. Didnt assist fuel consumption and just added more "stuff" in the engine bay.
For a manifold between the delorto and the Sc I used half of a Datsun 1600 twin carb manifold. worked well in terms of fitment.
And it was all done with Joel's help too
Humpty, that beetle looks great.
Tony
humpty ·
modnrod wrote:
Joel wrote:Just needs one of those old school Bee scoop intakes ..........
I'm with you Joel!
I like them a lot too.......
😁
Mad man!
vlad01 ·
tweety wrote:I planted a SC12 on my ea81 Brumby engine on my trike. Now its NA. If you do it, water injection is a waste of time and money. Didnt assist fuel consumption and just added more "stuff" in the engine bay.
For a manifold between the delorto and the Sc I used half of a Datsun 1600 twin carb manifold. worked well in terms of fitment.
And it was all done with Joel's help too
Humpty, that beetle looks great.
Tony
yeah water injection is only there to cool the intake charge in order to avoid detonation.
most SC engine setup are inherently inefficient due to parasitic losses.
can be roughly 20-50% or more of the power gained is lost to driving it in the first place.
modern screw type blowers however are extremely efficient volumetricly and if the complete package is designed right can have more power and improved economy. But certainly wont get that from a crappy SC12 or SC14 🤪
an eaton or whipple screw blower would been a great choice.
tweety ·
o the aussie designed and made Sprintex. Seen on some Harleys Mini's and Honda Jazz they are nicely compact.
Joel ·
vlad01 wrote:modern screw type blowers however are extremely efficient volumetricly and if the complete package is designed right can have more power and improved economy. But certainly wont get that from a crappy SC12 or SC14 🤪
You may be right in theory but as is often the case, in practice/reality is a completely different story.
The 1776 was never dynod with this setup but power and torque wise it was on a par with my EJ22 but the stock 1600 went from 44hp stock at the wheels to 85hp at 8psi.
I did several trips to Brisbane with that setup and highway cruising got better fuel economy than stock, not by a lot but you're talking double the HP with better highway economy.
THe blower just freewheels in a vacuum when the engine isnt under load but the engine isnt having to work as hard on hills and overtaking.
Even in town it wasnt that much worse unless I was driving in race mode.
