A friend of mine who did the bodywork on my Oval is upgrading the supercharger his V6 Calais just to be different.
+ 1 - He says he can get an Eaton supercharger for about $1800. He recons we'd get a cross-ram manifold from a Torana and run 2 side draft 45mm carbs. He can TIG-weld aluminium and has offered to do as much welding as I want to get manifolds and brackets working.
+2 He suggests mocking it up on another car first and I just happen to have a '54 waiting for a resto and a spare complete 1600.
+3 The plan is to run a conservative 5 or 6 psi boost on my 100 RWHP 1916 as it is or maybe add some spacers or a head gasket to reduce the 9.6:1 compression ratio a bit.
+4 The ports on my head are small enough to adapt to the factory DP manifold end castings. From there we may adapt some aftermarket single carb manifold to the blower.
-1 At this stage I worry that there wouldn't be enough room for dual pulleys for the fan and supercharger in the tight oval engine bay.
In the cold light of day this is probably a stupid thing to do to what is a pretty reliable combination. Please help con me out of it.
CT
reub 路
Go for it dude.... Considered doing something similar to mine 馃槈
11CAB 路
Yeah supercharge that sucker.....馃槀
Craig Torrens 路
yeah come join the club 馃榾
1303Steve 路
Hi CT
Not a bad idea. Twin Webber's? Better of with EFI as it will control fuel and spark much better to help the motor live. Turbo charging is a much better solution but requires a bit more commitment.
Steve
Joel 路
with my new found love of blowers i say go for it 馃槑
-joel
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE 路
definately go to EFI as it will give you heaps more room to play with. Injector bosses welded into the twin port manifolds right down near the ports then mount the blower where the dizzy would sit.That way you can run one belt with a tensioner type set up. Run individual coil packs and a sensor set up on the crank pulley and your in business. Grab a throttle body from the wreckers off a late model Honda and if your mate can do all the welding and fabrication then that's a big step in the right direction.
The only problem I can see is the room. Might need to massage the boot lid a little.....
Gracey 路
I say go for it!
For starters keep it a simple draw through system with carb and maybe water injection, this setup alone may be enough to surprise and thrill you.
Flintstones 路
Don't know what you've got to think about, sounds great.
Especially since your mate can tig weld, go for it!!馃檪
Cheers
Cam 路
Nope, I won't be talking you out of it dude. You should check out the yahoo club for supercharged VW's. From memory its just called "blownbugs" searching should bring it up pretty easily.
The side drafts sound like they would look awesome, though I would go with webber style throttle bodies to get the looks and still be able to run EFI.
To me old-school webers (Or is that ye-old webers Cam?) are as important as the VW badge. I understand the superior performance and economy of fool injection but I love brass jets. The closest thing to a computer that will ever be bolted in to my car is the MSD 6AL.
Some enthusiasts like to re-engineer as many components as possible because modifying stuff is fun. But I want to keep things pretty simple.
Can I get a flatter dizzy cap that sends the leads out horizontally rather than vertically?
Do all these supercharges need long snouts to mount the pulley on or can that be shortened?
Thanks for the tips. Keep them coming.
The Bigfella 路
I don't see any reason why the snout length can't be modified - provided you don't stuff up the balance of the rotating mass. The Detroit blowers on my boat have no snout at all - and are gear driven.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE 路
Commondores only have the snout so that the pulley line up with the rest of the engine pulleys due to Holden's placement of the blower on the V6. Yes it can be changed. Not 100% sure but you may be able to even buy shorter ones but I could be wrong. (doesn't happen very often lol)
2443TT 路
A 0.060" head gasket will drop the CR to 8.2:1 which would be safe for considerable boost. I love my EFI and computer engine management, but am inclined to agree with Gracey in that keeping it simple for your first attempt. Then once you get a feel for it, go hard core on it!
I had a thought about using a toyota blower as a draw through EFI blower on Reub's 1916. If I were to do it i'd replace first remove the distributor and run a twin coil waste spark crank triggered ignition. This would allow the blower to be mounted a lot lower to the block. Then the output of the blower would go through a charge cooler that would be mounted on the parcel shelf. This would mean making 3" holes through the fan shoud to run 2" pressure piping through(allowing for engine movement etc, or convert to porsche cooling). Run a small radiator mounted on the front beam and thats more or less it.
7lb would be safe on a 8.2:1 CR 1916, and would make around 150-160hp easily. At 7lb and above id be wanting water injection or charge cooling, and engine management capable of retarding the igniton based on boost. With charge cooling 14lb not a problem, and expect over 200rwhp. Thats provided your engine revs to around 7ish. Considering the CR im assuming it does.
Have you noticed that nobody is talking you out of this ! Seems we are all a bunch of petrol heads 馃榿
Euro_67 路
I know ther is plenty of debate about the benefits of centrifugal vs roots superchargers. The centrifugal is smaller so might fit better between the fan housing and crank pulley.
Try and find a centrifugal thats even close to being small enough to run on a vw engine. They are generally all for V8's. The smallest are for engines around the 4lt mark, so some 6's. I guess it has something to do with the load of the gear up systems that drive the turbines.
Euro_67 路
Vic based retailer of 4 cyl sized roots type superchargers.
Those are Autorotor screw type superchargers.
Nice units made in Sweden.
I had two of the 3150 units on my engine running at 53% faster than engine speed.
They are a bit pricey,
although if they are sold based on the US dollar
they may be cheaper than what I payed some 10 years ago.
VWFREAK 路
DON'T DO IT!
I'm lying blow the sucker.
I've toyed with a similar combo for a few years now, but heat has always been my concern, especially when I liven in Darwin.
Have fun.
westi 路
i have an eaton sitting here waiting to be used ,it's the one of the merc's.it eat's and shit's form the top.so it might be better than the m45.
you are welcome to come have a look if you want.
Joel 路
ive seen a 2110 in an oval with a m45 on it
ill dig around and see if i can find the pics
it had the snout removed too
im looking at setting up a water injection system on mine once its back on my 1776
but eventually itll be EFId with megasquirt
-Joel
fullnoise 路
I'd love to see pictures of somebody else's effort.
My first shots are likely to be uninspiring. Think rusty '54 oval, a grotty 1600 and bits of cardboard with duct tape!
Nobody has been able to convince me not to do it yet! But it would be difficult to get it up and running for under $4000 all up. But you could see some IDAs and porsche Fuchs on ebay when I get serious.
Re: The eaton that eats and shits from the top 馃槀 I might just have to see that after work one day.
CT
westi 路
any time .we are always open
pete wood 路
as arnie says
DOO IT!!!馃憤
fullnoise 路
I stumbled across DUB74L aka Joel's post on the super charger he fitted to his engine. I wish I could find a link to it because its much better than this post. Nice work Joel.
I doubt I'll be playing with a super charger for a while. I've got an engine rebuild and the Portland Drags, BugIn and a Dutton Rally to prepare for.
The cogs will be turning in the back of my mind though; or are they gilmer drive pulleys?
CT
humpty 路
Been thinking about this myself.... Might be selling all that turbo gear I have sitting about.... But I need more convincing... I even have a short snout M45 EATON sitting here... Hmmmm
1303Steve 路
Hi
Humpty, turbos rule, superchargers suck, stick with your turbo.
Steve
reub 路
....or go subaru 馃憤
humpty 路
reub-revhead wrote:....or go subaru 馃憤
Yeah... Already have two of those Reub!!!....
And don't worry Steve.... I'm not convinced.... The EATON does work nice on my mates WBX LBug, but I think the 'Woolongong Way' is looking like the best trip for my stroker....
1303Steve 路
Hi Humpty
The good thing about a turbo is, if you want more boost you twiddle a knob or flick a switch. Supercharger, hang on a sec mate while I swap pulleys for more boost.
Steve
fullnoise 路
If only I could find a cheap SC12 Supercharger in excellent condtion on ebay!
how much is cheap
i told you already to pop down have a look,$200 merc /eaton/charger,and i have the next size up if needed.or a 1J take your pick.
fullnoise 路
Hi Westi,
I'll try and come past next week becasue I intend to drive the beetle to work all week. That way I can get a better idea of where it won't fit.
I've been contemplating a few things:
1. Could you use one of those tricky aftermarket vw off-the shelf serpentine belt conversions and then just get a longer belt that whips around the supercharger pulley too. Hopefully they use the same belt (Wouldn't be that lucky?)
2. I could use some IDF manifolds with dellorto style aircleaner bases and my turbo tops bolted to them with a few gaskets for the intake plumbing.
3. There's an aftermarket fan housing that is at its maximum height off centre above the fan (Rather than the centre of the case). So it tapers away towards the 3/4 head. This may allow enough some extra space if the super charger is too long and gets in the way of the fan housing if you start with the pulley lined up with the standard pulley.
Just some thoughts for the boring drive too and from work in the boring old company Astra.
CYA CT
2443TT 路
I'd do away with the distributor and convert to a crank fire ignition system. With the distributor gone there is a lot more room for mounting a supercharger on the left side of the engine. The oil filler is in the way on the other side.
Your probably going to end up making a custom pully anyway to drive the supercharger. Dont be afraid to do this. You can get a chromoly pully hub with a keyway from the bugpack pully system, and get a pully machined up from alloy. Putting the crankfire trigger on the pully will require a little creative thinking but its not that hard to do.
Turbo54 路
I am running my timing off the flywheel. It's out of the way, accurate and easy to setup. I am then using the dissy hole as a breather. Just a thought.
T54
2443TT 路
So the flywheel generates a sync signal... where is the reference signal picked up from?
Dero 路
Courious to knoe if ya planning on and intercooler at all... 馃お I guess it does add complexitity but a nicetity as well I guess....
sorry just rambling/ interested in seeing this setup! 馃憤
Cheers
fullnoise 路
No plans for an intercooler. I want to fit everything in a closed oval engine bay. That's the biggest challenge.
I'm rambling too!
CT
ian.mezz 路
Holden Commodore V6 motor fits nice OH YER THE SUPERCHARGERS THATS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING @ VERY NICE
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE 路
man that is a very good fit. If it isn't all show then that thing would get up and boogie!!
pete wood 路
surely it would have been easier (and lighter) to use one large one? I mean it looks impressive all but really...馃
fullnoise 路
My progress so far is L A M E. All I've done is flip my 54 around so the engine bay faces my work bench. That way I can put a stock 1600 in it and mock up the position of the supercharger. That should be easy really. Moving the '54 was like solving a sudoko rubics cube. It had all my crap build up around it and it hardly rolls. There is 3 cars sitting in a 2 car garage. I had to spin the thing 180 degrees using a trolley jack.
Westi, I'm still going to pop by your joint one day to look at your blower.