$6000 enough 2 build 1916 engine

hey tech heads,,, got a few 2 many questions 4 u guys so here they r...

is $6000 enough 2 buy all the parts and get whatever machined and what not 2 build a 1916cc race engine.
ive got a guy i know to build it 4 me 4 cash and beers and he knows what hes doin, but i just want other oppinions.

i would prefer a engine 2 race around a track rather then down a quarter..
and would i get100hp plus??
i want someting that i can drive daily,,and would last a good time..

ive watched ct race and some pobjoy cars race, could i build someting similar???

Yes and no. To get daily drive, reliable, and powerful won't be cheap.

Depends on exacly how race you want to go, and how much power you want. I think you will be looking at 10K+ a 1916 or greater race motor (thats with all the goos stuff)

looking around for bargains, yes would come in around the $6K............depending on your patience and penchant for particular materials/brands/qualities..............

if ur building it urself, i'm not experienced, but i been shopping for all kinds of bits on ebay and what not, but purchasing over the internet will save you HUGE bucketloads of money.

I found this great site that comes with great vw engine rebuilding kits from 69mm to 78.8 mm counterweighted cranks and from 87.7mm to 94mm pistons + barrels, come with performance cams too. Mainly Scat and BugPack brand too.

http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1821

The U.S. Dollar is weak at the moment, so its good timing. Its just the shipping u will have to price, as well as the tax you wil ahve to pay if your importing something you paid more than a grand for.

"

C15-1835 - DS - SCAT -1835CC ECONO ENG KIT 69MM X 92.0MM- CAST CRANK (SHIPPING CHARGES APPLY)
Phone-in/Mailorder Price US $769.95
Website Discount Price US $699.95
You Save US $70.00! In Stock!




C15-1915 - DS - SCAT -1915CC ECONO ENG KIT 69MM X 94.0MM- CAST CRANK (SHIPPING CHARGES APPLY)
Phone-in/Mailorder Price US $769.95
Website Discount Price US $699.95
You Save US $70.00! In Stock!




C15-2027 - DS - SCAT -2027CC STROKER ENG KIT 78.8MM X 90.5MM- FORGED CRANK (SHIPPING CHARGES APPLY)
Phone-in/Mailorder Price US $923.95
Website Discount Price US $839.95
You Save US $84.00! In Stock!




C15-2027-1 - DS - SCAT -2027CC RACE READY ENG KIT 78.8MM X 90.5MM- FORGED CRANK (SHIPPING CHARGES APPLY)0
Phone-in/Mailorder Price US $2,799.95
Website Discount Price US $2,699.95
You Save US $100.00! In Stock!




C15-2027-3 - DS - SCAT -2027CC STROKER ENG KIT 78.8MM X 90.5MM- CAST CRANK (SHIPPING CHARGES APPLY)
Phone-in/Mailorder Price US $769.95
Website Discount Price US $699.95
You Save US $70.00! In Stock!




C15-2095 - DS - SCAT -2095CC STROKER ENG KIT 78.8MM X 92.0MM- FORGED CRANK (SHIPPING CHARGES APPLY)
Phone-in/Mailorder Price US $923.95
Website Discount Price US $839.95
You Save US $84.00! In Stock!




C15-2095-1 - DS - SCAT -2095CC RACE READY ENG KIT 78.8MM X 92.0MM- FORGED CRANK (SHIPPING CHARGES APPLY)0
Phone-in/Mailorder Price US $2,799.95
Website Discount Price US $2,699.95
You Save US $100.00! In Stock!




C15-2095-3 - DS - SCAT -2095CC STROKER ENG KIT 78.8MM X 92.0MM- CAST CRANK (SHIPPING CHARGES APPLY)
Phone-in/Mailorder Price US $769.95
Website Discount Price US $699.95
You Save US $70.00! In Stock!

"
Heres a pic of their kits. All you gotta sort out then is the little bits and the case. But its practically a long block. If you chase up shipping prices and what not, give us a buzz hey.

talk to Wayne Penrose.

Gday Chris thats a really tough question because there are so many variables.You can typically go 2 ways,either buy the parts yourself and build or get somebody else to build your engine or,buy a complete engine of someone like Stan Pobjoy or Rod Penrose
For sure 6k is a good start but there are so many extra things that come up when you start chasing hp.Its very hard to get good hp out of your engine and still drive to work the next day.CT has managed but his engine is a freak, and he really keeps it in top condition and tuned to perfection.
My personal engine to replace is just to scarey to think about but lets say if i spent 12k i would not have any change
My best advise would be to talk to as many people as you can then form a plan.Cylinder heads are the secret to big hp so get a good set if you can, and dont rush ,wait and get the best rather than saving a few bucks and getting something that may fail down the track.
Hope this info helps a little

Cheers Col

Hi Chris,

This is a good useful topic.

My donk has 100 at the treads. Colin's has over 130.

I'd love to have 130 at the treads but that spec may not be as reliable with all the miles my oval clocks up (But it might be).

Here's my 2 cents, I'm no expert. Hopefully you'll only have to spend $6000 once.

Don't get pursuaded by 'bigger is better'. I went wrong with some 44 x 37.5 valve street eliminators. Keep things conservative if you want reliablity and get good quality parts. My engine has 40 x 35.5 valve mini D-port40 heads and under 0.500 valve lift and 9.6:1 compression.

Get good quality webers like the old ones. If the casting is a bit rough don't touch them. My car pissed fuel all over the engine when I was racing at Eastern Creek on the cars second ever track day because the spanish webers popped a plug at the bottom of one of the float bowls.

Keep the carbs balanced with a balancing tool. Make sure the linkages are in sync (often). Get used to clearing blocked idle jets with 44 IDF webers. You'll need to access them though the inner wheel arches. Make sure you've got a good reliable spark with a pertronix (or similar) and an MSD (or similar). Then the thing will run sweet, sound sweet and be enjoyable.

Use good oil like Motul or Castrol 20/50 Formula "whatever they call it now" and check the valve train religiously. Set the valves by rotating the engine until you feel the valve start to open then go back half a turn so the lifter is on the heel of the cam. Doing the valves at TDC is unreliable due to overlap if you have a long duration cam. I set mine to TDC and then Jak showed me his way and it was amazing how the gaps opened up more than what I'd set them up at. After that the engine sounded less tappety.

Always check unusual noises coming from the engine bay. Like the screams of small children!

I hope that helps.

CYA CT

fullnoise wrote:Set the valves by rotating the engine until you feel the valve start to open then go back half a turn so the lifter is on the heel of the cam. Doing the valves at TDC is unreliable due to overlap if you have a long duration cam. I set mine to TDC and then Jak showed me his way and it was amazing how the gaps opened up more than what I'd set them up at. After that the engine sounded less tappety.

Wow CT - I've never heard of that way of doing tappets - have to give it a try I reckon !!! 👍

Sides wrote:

fullnoise wrote:Set the valves by rotating the engine until you feel the valve start to open then go back half a turn so the lifter is on the heel of the cam. Doing the valves at TDC is unreliable due to overlap if you have a long duration cam. I set mine to TDC and then Jak showed me his way and it was amazing how the gaps opened up more than what I'd set them up at. After that the engine sounded less tappety.

Wow CT - I've never heard of that way of doing tappets - have to give it a try I reckon !!! 👍

hee he.......or get a good pulley with 360'of markings and check it to be true to the crank position when you build your motor!

YES CT and COLIN.......the reliability and h.p comes from a good combination of parts not necessarily the biggest or baddest.

match your capacity, cam and heads to a goal output, very important😎

Hi

Regarding adjusting Valves. When I worked in a VW shop many years ago and we would do many services at once on air cooled cars.

A trick that I was shown was to set the valves without standing up and down to turn the motor over.

We would 1st remove all the plugs and let the handbrake off, put the trans in 4th gear.

If working on hoist I would adjust one rear brake so that it would lock on, its a good time to adjust brakes anyway, then turn the other wheel to get the correct valves rocking, then release the brake and do the same on the other side.

If working on the floor you can do the same thing, but I was always able to hold the opposing wheel with my foot and turn the other wheel with my hand.

Steve

PS, off subject but $6000 + for 1916cc with about 100 RWHP makes a Suby conversion look attractive

if you buy every thing straight from the state's yeh it's possible.
your head chioce is one of the most important things that you need to decide.if it don't flow it don't go.cam is next.based on what the heads do.
make sure you do plenty of research,and when you think you have it all sorted,start again
the biggest problem with your budget is how much of it has been alocated for beer and how much will be consumed before the building will be comenced.
i have seen some mistakes made while building completely smashed on beer,car still ran 10.1 @ 116km/h 1/8 mile in a heavy type three.it did last all day.but the drive home was hell.the mistakes were minor but the engine is known a the one day screamer.
have fun in what ever you decide.

Research everything, then do it again. Damo is on the money, you must match heads, cubes, cam, carbs, comp ratio, combustion chamber design. I've seen big dollar engines not make hp, and visa versa. Biggest mistake is to always be thinking of the dollar. As they say in 'how to hotrod your vdub engine', there is no substitute for cubic inches. For a daily, I'd be thinking more displacement, less heads, unless there is bacing rules or whatever to consider. My 2332 makes great power ( possibly 130+ atrw), very drivable, but although I'd take to the shops anytime, I'd hate to rely on it for everyday to get to work.

Good trick Steve. I'll give that a shot.

The cost of the subaru donk is attractive in comparison. But the surgery required to your car isn't quite so attractive IMO.

I'd like to try a 2332 engine in my car doing the same stuff and see if it got hot or broke stuff in the engine or gearbox.

Regards CT

i went the Stan Pobjoy option, looks the goods and you get warranty. Call Stan (but give yourself a spare hour when calling!)

Hi

Stan’s the man, not many high performance engine builders offer a warranty.

Were all driving 30 year plus vehicles, to some any modification to a vintage car is abhorrent. In most cases any modification you do to fit an alternate motor can be undone. My old 1302 was water-cooled for 16 years, it’s now back on the road, air-cooled.

Steve

I could not agree more with you Matt ,its easier to get 100hp from a 2332cc than a 1916cc but it comes down to your plan.Chris you mentioned racing ,now most clubs run different classes based on modification and engine capacity.As far as hillclimbing is concerned Nathan,Craig,Heath and myself run in Improved Production 1600cc-2000cc.

Now if you build a 1916cc motor you will run 1600cc-2000cc but if you go a 2332cc for instance you will be in the 2000cc-3000cc class, a big step up. So as Matt said do your homework and have a plan.

Hows your gearbox? Remember no point having a street stormer if your gearbox explodes every time you drop the clutch.

Cheers Col

ok guys, how bout if i built a hot lil 1640 or 1776, but one that i could build up 2 a screamer 1916 in the future????

and yeah i do have a stock gearbox, but not thinking bout that at the moment.. the guy i bought it off did have a type 4 2.9L
that he said makes bout 190hp, supposably, with the stock gearbox.dunno how much he was dropping the left foot though.

ive been enquiring bout a 2276cc combo thats maybe 4 sale,owners not 100% SURE YET...its in feb april 08 aussy vw mag. what u guys think bout that 1 4 circuit racing and bit of a daily driver as i have enother car??

i know stan from when i lived over there cause i was from coffs as well.used 2 go 2 a few hillclimbes with him, AND YEAH HE DOES LOVE A CHAT,he,he.
his engines is what i have been saving for, but so far im still a few g's off his base 1916cc engine.
should propably keep saving 4 that.

Hi Chris,

Do I know you?

Did you used to tag along with Stan? Did you go to Mt Cotton and Grafton Hillclimbs when Greg Ward and I were there?

If you're going to get your case bored etc you may as well go for a 1916 instead of a 1776. I think it's the same price. I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong.

CYA CT

First stroker I owned in 1987, I said I'd never go stock stroke again. Having said that, I have had success with strong running little motors (1776) where you can put more money into refining the little things, and overall your little motor can run cooler, but 'big has balls' that you never get with the little rever.

So you have another car.Well that puts you in a very good position.I didn,t start to make real gains in hp until i decided to bite the bullet and not registar my car at all. CT is right you may as well bore for 94,s as 90.5mm barrels and start at 1916cc.

Cheers Col

yeah ct you do know me,, you even took me 4 a drive in your oval once.. i like that in car fotage on you tube, it sound farkin nice..

matberry wrote:First stroker I owned in 1987, I said I'd never go stock stroke again. Having said that, I have had success with strong running little motors (1776) where you can put more money into refining the little things, and overall your little motor can run cooler, but 'big has balls' that you never get with the little rever.

yeah Matt, i was ten years behind on my OWN first stroker, but racing Luke driving hardings targa car, and Pigmi with his 1776...........both more refined by an expert company😎...over my swap meet special 2180 ......made me realize how well these little revers could go also!...........amazing how equal they were despite the different style of power delivery. pigmi and i ran almost identicle et's that weekend but.....

yes there is no torque like that of a stroker tho when you pile a couple of mates in our little cars to show em what you've got. the grunt shows up when approaching the big speeds with the stroker

make the decision up front tho, as said..........a change in stroke "down the track" should mean different cam, valve size, porting, exhaust and carburation to make the most benefit from the upgrade.........ie, totally different set up🙅

should we turn this into a confessional as to how much $$$$$ we've spent in our pursuit of reliable power?........ as Colin has so generously confided

cubic inches = dollars
high revs = more dollars

Thou shall not confess thy sins, to thy girlfriend, in relation to dollars spent in the pusuit of horsepower.

Chris, I still have a copy of the video you did at Grafton. You were filming Greg Ward on his last run when he spun it coming onto the straight. I remember your comentary, in a Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure style, you said "..oh... spewin'! He's gonna be pissed". It cracks me up.

CYA CT

Damo what a contest that would have been.
Amazing you got to see a direct comparison with three very diferent engines.

For the un oldies; Pygmy's engine: 1776cc, Engle 120, 40x35.5 MB ported rever,2x 40 IDF
Targa car :1300cc, Engle 120(?), same style heads (probably the set after Pygmy's?)2x40 IDF
Damo :2180cc, ? ,? (feel free to help here Damo)

The Targa car was built for rev's (my combo afterall) and she saw 8000rpm regularly, which I think is very sustainable with the right components. My old drag engine on the other hand, saw 9000rpm and I feel the need for the Chev valve springs and spring pressures needed to achieve this, make the streetability unreliable. The 2332 I now have, sees 7000 and so the dual Scat springs are so much easier on the rest of the valve train, it is more reliable. I am presently building a 2165 with small carbs, and it will be rev limited to probably 5500, as the budget is small, but it will have 'balls down low' (said with a deep voice). With the availability of affordable (remember there has always been cheap) stroker parts, I feel cubes is the easy answer for street power.
Matt

mactaylor wrote:cubic inches = dollars
high revs = more dollars

This is true, but any streeter will rev to 7000+ with a basic combo. (the low rever in my examples above is due to cam and carb combo).

Best to hide all invoices and especially, dont add them up!

2180,all good gear, lightened and balanced, 48's, berg 310 (which was very nice), BUT performance down due to it's heads.... out of the box 041's yuck!..........

........poor porting, shrouded & silly match of valve sizes for engine capacity and cam needs, also poor combustion chamber design...........low compression to keep the heat under control............it ran out of puff by 5600rpm

fast in it's own right and i was not dissapointed with it, but other combos (smaller & better match) could provide the same performance

which leads us back to IT'S A COMBINATION of well planned, matching parts that will provide the best results.

there was the articles on Jurgos yello zonker (V.V.D.S) all those years ago to get the most from his small valve heads with great results

If you want to keep it under 2lt then IMO the best option would be to stay with the 69mm stroke crank and increase the bore size to 94.......the good old 1916 combo.

If you want a larger than 2lt combo (type 1 motor) then you will have to use a stroker crank.

IMO the under 2lt stroker combinations just don't cut it.

The strokers can't compete with the 1916's in hillclimb, and its been that way for well over a decade.

In hillclimbs you need torque for out of corner "punch" as well as a very wide rev range for less gear changes, so a 1916 is more than capable of producing both.

As for $6000 as a budget......well I built a great 1916 for the ragtop for less than $4000 using Pobjoy as the builder.

Just buy the parts when others are selling them cheap 😎

Craig Torrens wrote:the strokers can't compete with the 1916's in hillclimb, and its been that way for well over a decade.

In hillclimbs you need torque for out of corner "punch" as well as a very wide rev range for less gear changes, so a 1916 is more than capable of producing both.

As for $6000 as a budget......well I built a great 1916 for the ragtop for less than $4000 using Pobjoy as the builder.

Just buy the parts when others are selling them cheap 😎

Sorry I cant agree.
All things being equal, more cubes is more low grunt.

never mind Matt, it's just Craig's way of saying his driving skill was untouchable...................fancy passing the credit to his equipment, always so humble 😏

This is the most interesting post in Circuit Racing for a while. Lets keep it to constructive advice and opinions rather than let it degenerate into a stroker vs stock session.

I raced with Jak and his stroker engines of various capacities. His engine was no less reliable than mine.

As others have said the heads and cam can make or break the combination.

I picked my level 5 DRD heads from aircooled.net on the promise that they had good air speed. I thought the 40 x 35.5 and the smalll mini-D-ports would suit the capacity.

I also wanted to keep the valve train conservative with lift and valve diameter (weight) yet long duration. That's why I chose the Engle 130.

I was disappointed by the heads. But the combo seem quick for what it is. The main problem is fuel stand-off at 2500rpm due to valve overlap or an ineffiecent exhuast or something. It makes the fuel curve really rich and occasionally the car hesitates.

Whenever you're in a 60 zone, which is most of the time, in 4th it's always on 2500rpm or there abouts.

My combo is similar to Stan's combos. He's probably the way to go. But my advice is to stick with his formulas, specs and head recommendations. Don't deviate.

Regards CT

So wether we go for a stroker or a 1776,1916 i think? we all agree that its the combo you chose and the application that makes the difference.
ie reliable street power, no stress low revs maybe 2176,2332.

compition under 2000cc well maybe thats were the little 1916 shines.
I dont know about whether a 1916 or a stroker will have any affect on gear changes though.I mean if anything a stroker will pull you out of a slower corner with more drivability than a high strung 1916 combo.

So lets dream a little.
My dream street motor,
94mm pistons and barrels
84mm berg crank
fk 87 cam with straigh cuts
my cylinder heads and rocker gear(sorry secret squirrel info)
comp ratio 11.0-1
my 48idas and manifolds (again secret squirrel)
msd 6al with billet dizzy 2 step launch
and of course my good freind larry to build it ,

Cheers Col

ie and dynoed by blue here in Tamworth,

yeah, we must not forget there was once this almighty stroker that dominated hillclimbs too tho.

it's still around waiting for a dreamer like me with a wild set of throttle bodies to add an E8, do the check through and fire it up........funny how dreams turn to reality before you know it😏

and no there won't be a build up thread this time around🥲

dumone wrote:yeah, we must not forget there was once this almighty stroker that dominated hillclimbs too tho.

it's still around waiting for a dreamer like me with a wild set of throttle bodies to add an E8, do the check through and fire it up........funny how dreams turn to reality before you know it😏

and no there won't be a build up thread this time around🥲

Now this sounds interesting? *enter fishing smiley here*

Who's car was it? And what engine?
Was it a panned car or a modified chassis car?

CP

the car was a green one me thinks and it was piloted by a mad man way to much mullet involved. however wit was before its time, only a few boys were capable of the HP and track setup at the time all cred to who where involved!!!!!

Might be a sidetrack, but I just had a thought. If you are serious about racing, picking your class can really help a lot. I entered a motorkhana a month back in a very crappy hatchback aiming to win my class and succeeded. I was not the most powerful car in class and I had buggered shocks and street tyres but I won anyway. Why not try entering the 1301-1600cc class and stick with a really tight 1600 and work hard at competing within the class. It would certainly be cheaper partswise and a lot nicer on your gearbox. Remember the porsche salzburg rally beetles were using 1600s and getting 120hp (flywheel?) at 6500rpm. All the specs for them are on the web. If you want to ungrade to a larger capacity class you can do it later. Worth thinking about I reckon. 😉

mactaylor wrote:piloted by a mad man way to much mullet involved.

I think you mean 'mull' not mullet 😂....................Ah the Kombi dutch oven,and the smell of Elf racing fuel............those were the days 🤓

C'mon Dumone get the old beast back on the track 😎

wrong on the Elf race fuel there Craig........ that smell didn't come from the green bug😏

yes, a resurrection is on my list..........

1776

EJ20

hellstroker buggy (100+😀 KW at the wheels)

V6 supercharged kombi

oxyboxer supercharged/intercooled EFI...........just because.

i'm always welcome to throw money into any off these bottom less pits, some needing more than others, all needing good time. i have sure learn't a lot just looking and talking. Getting your hands in there and having a go is the best way.

Hey Daimo, one day a very long time ago, like about maybe 10 years Greg Bendl Adam Hamilton and myself took Hellbuggy up to Willowbank to race at the Flat Fours Jamboree.It was totaly rained out so we came home the next day to Tamworth,Adams beetle broke down so Greg towed Adams car home on the trailer leaving Hellbuggy at my place for a few weeks.
Now i can tell you i am not one to pass up a oppurtunity so one quiet Sunday afternoon i fired up Hellbuggy and went for a blat up the street.Light weight buggy frame, 1998cc Jeff Unwin Hellbug motor, well just use your imagination.

FUUUUN.

Cheers Col

If I ever went with an NA motor path again id be looking at the QSC (http://www.qscusa.com/vwparts.htm) aluminium nikasil cylinder. Run some wiseco's in them, some ported heads, FK8 cam, balanced crank, H beams and 12:1 - 12.5:1 CR. Add some italian 44 IDF's or EFI and youve got an easy 140-150hp, and reliable too.... to a degree. It would be an engine i'd like to see.

Geez! this thread is shedding a bunch of light on a previously dark area for me, i met Stan a couple of years ago, we pulled into his place with the intention of a quick chat (now I know) and advice on where to go for bits and pieces, i realise there are many respected and qualified motor builders, but Stan just struck me as one of the most helpful blokes around, (how cool was that aircraft engine? magnesium this and titanium that?) i know where i'll be taking our 61 bug and it's tired old 1600 twin...how much did you say? allowing for gearbox condition. cool thread, keep it going.

Very good read so far guys.
Keep it coming.

hey Damo.....why the "berg" in front of everything ?

Craig Torrens wrote:hey Damo.....why the "berg" in front of everything ?

because you're going to do the pobjoy one 😂

WOW..........Damo I added up your bill for the 1776, just on $11,000 without carbs.............money does go fast !

yeah, working on a "recipe", BUT as you know all too well, buy bargains and WIN!............list prices, not my receipts.

i will finish the price break down before i post it for all to see...........quite revealing really

Geee Whizz! That 6k i had saved is already spent, now for gearbox, suspension, brakes..What's the turnaround time on a Pobjoy build fellas? Never one to rush a good job, looking at next year round Feb- March. And what sort of punishment will a standard gearbox take when hooked up to a Steroid donk? Gearbox rebuild costs? Cheers for all the info. Adam

so what did you end up buying for how much?................

Sorry Daimo, i meant that the 6k i had clear in the Dub acount has been allocated to a Pobjoy donk, just need to find the time to get down and see the Man. Poverty is owning several dubs! 🙂 Happiness is driving em

cool, let us know how far the $6k stretches...............

and get some pics of those twin plug heads🙄...........evryone hears about em, no one see's them!

Twin plugger might take it over the 6 grand mark i reckon...here's hoping, you can bet i'll post pics when it's in...probably not till after Xmas though.

Whats with the twin plug head setups ive heard so little about...? Is it an effort to get a better burn when your using a head thats been semi-hemi cut to lower the compression? Has anyone done back to back dyno/emissions and mileage comparisons with the 2nd plug turned on and off? Im just thinking why go to so much effort when you can just plug in a 55KV CDI multi-spark system for much less effort.

Stan Pobjoy does twin pluggers in his aero engines and in his top-end street and hillclimb motors... has done for several years. It seems to work okay

2443TT wrote:Im just thinking why go to so much effort when you can just plug in a 55KV CDI multi-spark system for much less effort.

I'm just thinking why go to so much effort putting twin turbo's on a vw motor when you can just put a turbo subaru motor in it for much less effort.😂

VWCOOL wrote:Stan Pobjoy does twin pluggers in his aero engines and in his top-end street and hillclimb motors... has done for several years. It seems to work okay

Yeah I understand in an aircraft situation for redundancy it is required, but from a performance perspective I do wonder what the benifits are and how well they are documented. From what ive read of the semi-hemi head cut it does lower the efficency of the combustion chamber vs a kidney shaped chamber. Semi-hemi was mainly done to lower the CR while maintaining a close deck and was done on largish displacement engines, particularly turbo. Aparently Gene Berg was a fan of the semi-hemi but many other big names out there are just as against that design. Twin plugging may well fix the poor combusion burn issue through the combustion chamber of a semi hemi. If there is data it would make for an interesting read.

Craig Torrens wrote:I'm just thinking why go to so much effort putting twin turbo's on a vw motor when you can just put a turbo subaru motor in it for much less effort.😂

HA HA... I wasnt taking a shot at twin plugging, infact im all for modifying the hell out of something if it makes a measurable improvement. There in lies my point..

Also, subaru engines cant displace nearly 3lt... where as a set of 104mm barrels and some autocraft heads on my current bottom end will. Mmmmm displacement!

it's not just redundancy; two plugs help the combustion 'pulse' across the crown of the piston where a plug isn't centred particularly well. Good for torque.

I've not been witness to any dyno tests, but if I disable the second coil on my Nissan, it slows down...

VWCOOL wrote:it's not just redundancy; two plugs help the combustion 'pulse' across the crown of the piston where a plug isn't centred particularly well. Good for torque.

I've not been witness to any dyno tests, but if I disable the second coil on my Nissan, it slows down...

A nissan with twin plug combustion chambers? Whats that?

I've got twin plug heads on a Pobjoy motor and I've tested it with twin plug ignition and with a single plug ignition and I dynoed the results using a G tech Competition meter. I won't post dyno results because it's would be way to easy to fudge the results on the G Tech plus it doesn't really compare to anything.
What the twin plug does is make a cammed up motor a pussycat to drive. The cam in my motor starts at 4g and pulls to about 7.5g with the right heads etc.
Without the twin plugs the motor needs more revs for everyday driving as you would expect with such a cam. I found when I had single plugs I was using a lot more revs between gears in everyday driving, typically I wouldn't change below 5g. I reinstalled the twin plug setup and suddenly you've got torque off idle and around town I change at 3g or less, and the topend remained the same.
As far as semi hemi heads go I doubt Stan has ever used a set as I know he doesn't like them.

sorry, didn't mean to start this up here.................it would be nice to see some pics posted up for all to see and consider (i have actually checked them out)...........i doubt for the price and acurracy Stan does the conversion, anyone would be silly enough to copy them

touchy subject

🤪

Sorry if that came over the wrong way, I'm not trying to start anything.
I just wanted to give an opinion from someone who has used both setups on the same motor with no other changes.

my bro and me were arguing about 1916s last night. what's a reasonable engine life figure for em do you think, 150,000km? and what's it cost to build a basic 1916 these days?

This subject has been touched on in the past Pete

great thread and need more of it in particular for me as i have just crossed to Air cooled motoring there are a number of O/S makers of considered though high priced twin plug systems for WW and 4 cyl porsche - Maxton Prill, RABY etc etc. Yes the effects of twin PLugs well known and 6 cyl AC porsche have been running them for years.. Good flame front much faster burn means freakier cam and high compression with good driving characteristics. look n Pelican Parts forum as there is good talk about twin plug set ups.

Also have a look at a motor made by a Dean Polopolus of advance performance in the states - 4 cyl overhead cam porsche derived motor (first motors were made by sectioning a 6 cyl 911 and taking out the middle barrels and welding back up - capacities between 1,5 litre (up around 200HP) - 2,7 litres....but pricey kit alone in todays dollars are close to $13000US full built motors $20000 and keep going....

2443TT wrote:

VWCOOL wrote:it's not just redundancy; two plugs help the combustion 'pulse' across the crown of the piston where a plug isn't centred particularly well. Good for torque.

I've not been witness to any dyno tests, but if I disable the second coil on my Nissan, it slows down...

A nissan with twin plug combustion chambers? Whats that?

the good old nissan pintara twin plug what a flop .🤪 you dont see them around any more.
ps ask Craig Torrens he may have a spare 1916 in the shed he may not be using😂