can someone explain how i can get running gear like this under my baja bug
how did he manage a rear engine 4x4
X-I-TED ·
Aussieveedubbers · Non-VW Engine Conversions
running gear
https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/threads/70577/running-gear
pod ·
why would you want too??then you might as well buy a 4wdX-I-TED wrote:can someone explain how i can get running gear like this under my baja bug
X-I-TED ·
i dont know of many/ANY 4x4 that come rear engined and im sick of "running" at hills that other ppl in 4x4 just crawl uppod wrote:why would you want too??then you might as well buy a 4wdX-I-TED wrote:can someone explain how i can get running gear like this under my baja bug
newoldmanx ·
hmmmmmmmm id love to stuff this under a manx i think its running direct through the transfer case back to the rear wheels
Baja Wes ·
There wouldn't be any VW left, apart from the body, if you ran 4x4 running gear and all the mods required to do it with rear engine. It would be incredibly difficult to do it and still have the car legal for road use. And if it's for offroad only use then you might as well make a rock crawler.
The question is, what is your baja, and what are your friends 4x4's that your driving with.
A VW won't keep up with a modified well set-up 4x4. But it should be able to keep up with and out perform standard 4x4's. I can crawl up hills that other people in standard 4x4's can't.
The big problem a VW engined car has offroad is the carb. It will flood and cough on really steep / rough stuff. Look at this video for example;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTWqECoYYv8
Michael runs a vw engine with a carb, and it stalls when tries the steep hill, and he has to keep the revs up on the easier hill. The other vw's keep the revs up too. I have a torquey EFI V6 so I can crawl up the same stuff. Brad had an EJ20 turbo and found the power delivery a bit of a handful (hence the understeer into a tree).
The question is, what is your baja, and what are your friends 4x4's that your driving with.
A VW won't keep up with a modified well set-up 4x4. But it should be able to keep up with and out perform standard 4x4's. I can crawl up hills that other people in standard 4x4's can't.
The big problem a VW engined car has offroad is the carb. It will flood and cough on really steep / rough stuff. Look at this video for example;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTWqECoYYv8
Michael runs a vw engine with a carb, and it stalls when tries the steep hill, and he has to keep the revs up on the easier hill. The other vw's keep the revs up too. I have a torquey EFI V6 so I can crawl up the same stuff. Brad had an EJ20 turbo and found the power delivery a bit of a handful (hence the understeer into a tree).
pete wood ·
Wes had made a few very good points there.
4wd is not that difficult depending on how you look at it. Synchro kombis have a reputation for going anywhere too. A mate of mine and I talked about converting mine some years back. He reckoned some sort small tranny (rockcrawlers mostly use autos these days but whatever), a lada niva transfere case and a front diff should do the trick. There is a lot of fabbing involved but it would be possible to fit it into the standard pan. The problem is the front hubs. They would have to be completely custom. Not hard, but could be expensive.
The issue is, at the end of the day, you are still left with the VW suspension, which is ok, but will never compete with a landcruiser/patrol or similar.
The big drama offroad, as you could see in the vid is traction. You need to make the most of the traction and limit wheelspin. A locker could help, but again they are lots of $$$. There is a woodsbuggy forum in the states, those guys all use stockish trannies and VW motors. What they all have is turning brakes. You can buy these out of the US for as little AU$100 at the mo. try this first I reckon.
4wd is not that difficult depending on how you look at it. Synchro kombis have a reputation for going anywhere too. A mate of mine and I talked about converting mine some years back. He reckoned some sort small tranny (rockcrawlers mostly use autos these days but whatever), a lada niva transfere case and a front diff should do the trick. There is a lot of fabbing involved but it would be possible to fit it into the standard pan. The problem is the front hubs. They would have to be completely custom. Not hard, but could be expensive.
The issue is, at the end of the day, you are still left with the VW suspension, which is ok, but will never compete with a landcruiser/patrol or similar.
The big drama offroad, as you could see in the vid is traction. You need to make the most of the traction and limit wheelspin. A locker could help, but again they are lots of $$$. There is a woodsbuggy forum in the states, those guys all use stockish trannies and VW motors. What they all have is turning brakes. You can buy these out of the US for as little AU$100 at the mo. try this first I reckon.
ricola ·
I'm keeping an eye on this build:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=114030
Audi V8 on synchro running gear in a bug...
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=114030
Audi V8 on synchro running gear in a bug...
X-I-TED ·
wow thanks ricola ill be following that build with interest
if a synchro gearbox is probably more expensive than all the running gear in the 4x4 and nowhere near as tough
as for not much vw left have you seen any serious race bajas with anything more than 3/4 of a vw body not that im building a race baja just something cool and capable to run around a cattle staion
if a synchro gearbox is probably more expensive than all the running gear in the 4x4 and nowhere near as tough
as for not much vw left have you seen any serious race bajas with anything more than 3/4 of a vw body not that im building a race baja just something cool and capable to run around a cattle staion
X-I-TED ·
as much as i appreciate rockcrawling this is more along the lines i was thinkingBaja Wes wrote:And if it's for offroad only use then you might as well make a rock crawler.
http://www.formulaoffroad.net/bestof2006by_jch.wmv
pushing the limit AND running on water 😂
pete wood ·
unless you want to spend over 100K you won't get a VW to do that. Even then no factory aircooled block based engine can compete with that. In fact even autocrafts and pauters don't put out that kind of power for that long.
I appreciate your want to be different but that's really a bit ridiculous. Feel free to prove us all wrong though. 😁
BTW, there are a few rock crawlers getting round with aircooled motors in them in the US.
If you still want to go ahead with 4wd, re-read my first post.
I appreciate your want to be different but that's really a bit ridiculous. Feel free to prove us all wrong though. 😁
BTW, there are a few rock crawlers getting round with aircooled motors in them in the US.
If you still want to go ahead with 4wd, re-read my first post.
X-I-TED ·
hey mate thanks for the input but i think you have mistaken what i want to do (read my first post)pete wood wrote:unless you want to spend over 100K you won't get a VW to do that. Even then no factory aircooled block based engine can compete with that. In fact even autocrafts and pauters don't put out that kind of power for that long.
I appreciate your want to be different but that's really a bit ridiculous. Feel free to prove us all wrong though. 😁
BTW, there are a few rock crawlers getting round with aircooled motors in them in the US.
If you still want to go ahead with 4wd, re-read my first post.
basically im talking about a rear engined v8 (could be audi, but $ wise more likley a lexus) 4wd (cruiser etc)under a baja body
liam66 ·
I build cars and parts along those lines .X-I-TED wrote:as much as i appreciate rockcrawling this is more along the lines i was thinkingBaja Wes wrote:And if it's for offroad only use then you might as well make a rock crawler.
http://www.formulaoffroad.net/bestof2006by_jch.wmv
A manx isn't going to happen.
Trust me, I have a buggy and the tape measure and evil laugh is always silenced by reality.
The drivetrain under those formula offroad buggies- ladder chassis, 750 hp v8, plus typically a 200 hp nitrous kit., big autos, np or atlas transfers to big dana's, full hydraullic steering
Think 20 plus grand in diffs alone, 5 in a transfer, 5 in a gearbox, 15 to 20 in an engine, a couple of grand just in tailshafts...still want to play with the big boys? It'll hit a 100 grand easy.
Physically fitting all that under a manx shell will mean lots of compromises performance wise.
Even if you go vw style- 600 hp subi motors start at 16,000 us . mendoela do a split drive transaxle that could be used as a single range box- makes the motor look cheap.
Formula offroad cars are usually 110 to 115 inch wheelbase. Serious rockcrawlers are mostly in the 100 to 103 inch wheelbase. Whats a buggy ? 65 to 70?
Then where do you use it? Formula offroad is run on mining sites- legal and importantly SOFT terrain. Not a lot of that available to most folks here. Here your going to have harder packed ground and rocks...look at the drivetrains under the tough truck guys or the trophy trucks- half the motor, four times the drivetrain and they still break stuff.
The movement in US rockcrawling now is very much front engined, huge horsepower buggies- cheaper, better climbing, huge grunt and reliability.
Essentially you could drop a lwb buggy body over a tube frame toy- but it wouldn't have a single vw part under it.
pete wood ·
I've seen some of Liam's creations. He knows what he is talking about. I do know of one V8 powered manx in Sydney. It has a 3.5l rover in it. Great for wheelstands and not much good for anything else. The owner hardly ever drives it.
Look anything is possible, but you need to figure out exactly what you want it to do first.
Look anything is possible, but you need to figure out exactly what you want it to do first.
Baja Wes ·
If you want to drive like a formula offroad driver, then you want front engine. A rear engine would make it roll over backwards too easily.
X-I-TED ·
X-I-TED wrote:not that im building a race baja just something cool and capable to run around a cattle station
"Essentially you could drop a lwb buggy body over a tube frame toy- but it wouldn't have a single vw part under it."
atm i have a baja it has been street rego'd before but not recently as its only used on the farm i want to buy a buggy body on it (have new motor and box) and rego it then use the baja body (might have to strech it abit) on the 4x4 i dont care if any other vw bits are on it or not
(just like the look on the baja bug)
Liam is there a contact for you somewhere so we can discuss a build that might cater to my needs i have a month and a half untill i board (im a chef on a luxury (super) yacht) and then will be away for 7 months id kind of like to have something when i return
Ted
liam66 ·
Okay, standard list of questions for anyone who wants something built-
Is rego important ?( and in what state!)
Does it have to comply to any competition rules?
Will it ever be on a drag strip/ cams event/ ccda event?
Anything is possible- it's just a question of knowing exactly what you want to finish with.
You'd be surprised what you can get registered if you go about it the right way.
Is rego important ?( and in what state!)
Does it have to comply to any competition rules?
Will it ever be on a drag strip/ cams event/ ccda event?
Anything is possible- it's just a question of knowing exactly what you want to finish with.
You'd be surprised what you can get registered if you go about it the right way.
X-I-TED ·
rego- no
comp rules- no
drag strip /cams etc no
safe, tough as nails adrenalin horspower machine yes!!!
comp rules- no
drag strip /cams etc no
safe, tough as nails adrenalin horspower machine yes!!!
liam66 ·
Still want a car built?
I resigned from my job a couple of weeks back and now am building/ modifying full time.
Curent projects in the shop include a full house race cobra that needs some refinement and an integrated, but removable cage, a couple of hard core 4wd conversions and my own buggy, which is getting a worked and detailed wrx motor under it, converted to IRS, huge discs, and some other tricks.
I resigned from my job a couple of weeks back and now am building/ modifying full time.
Curent projects in the shop include a full house race cobra that needs some refinement and an integrated, but removable cage, a couple of hard core 4wd conversions and my own buggy, which is getting a worked and detailed wrx motor under it, converted to IRS, huge discs, and some other tricks.