A year-by-year Australian Volkswagen history is now available, at the Club Veedub Sydney website.
It runs from 1941 to 2008, in ten parts. It also includes VW's year-by-year sales in Australia, by model. These figures have previously been published in Zeitschrift, and are sourced from FCAI documents. Please feel free to bookmark and use as a reference - there are lots of new VW enthusiasts out there who don't know the Australian story.
Please let me know if you spot any errors or omissions. Comments and additional info also welcome.
Phil74Camper wrote:A year-by-year Australian Volkswagen history is now available, at the Club Veedub Sydney website.
It runs from 1941 to 2008, in ten parts. It also includes VW's year-by-year sales in Australia, by model. These figures have previously been published in Zeitschrift, and are sourced from FCAI documents. Please feel free to bookmark and use as a reference - there are lots of new VW enthusiasts out there who don't know the Australian story.
Please let me know if you spot any errors or omissions. Comments and additional info also welcome.
I don't suppose you have any figures of semi auto beetles
sold or Imported in 68-69-70-71
Lee
Phil74Camper ·
Hi Lee,
Sorry, no, the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries' figures aren't that specific. They used a simple 'model' reporting system that didn't take body or mechanical styles into account.
For example, in 1968 they said that VW sold '4,350 VW 1500s.' That obviously includes both manual and semi-auto Beetles, BUT it would also include Type 3s. There is simply no way to know how much there were of each - we only know the total for 'VW 1500'. Likewise, in 1971 VW sold 10,090 'VW 1600s'. Again, that must include Superbug manuals and semi-autos, AND Type 3s.
Sadly, it's impossible to say how many Beetles or Type 3s were sold; we only know about 'VW 1200s', 'VW 1300s', 'VW 1500s' and 'VW 1600s'. Even today, the FCAI's sales figures list the total for 'Golf' - 10,982 for 2007. They don't give any information on which models they were - CL, GL, Comfortline, Sportline, FSI, TDI, diesel etc etc.
One other thing to note about the FCAI's figures - they are Australian sales figures based on Australian registration data from the Bureau of Statistics. VW's own figures from the 1960s will be slightly different, since the Clayton factory also made CKD kits and complete vehicles for export. The FCAI's figures are purely Australian new registration figures.
If anyone is interested in looking at the original FCAI documents, you can find them in the NSW State Library (Mitchell Library). They produced a neat little series of annual books of Australian auto data from 1959-70, then the Black and White data book after that. Have a look in the catalog at:
Not all of them are in the Mitchell Library. I also had to search in the National Library in Canberra before I found them all.
volumex ·
Phil,
Great resource. I noticed that the site referred to a book 'Knowing Australian Volkswagens' from Bookworks - so I rang up to ask about it and they said they don't have it.
Do you know where I could get a copy?
Thanks,
Simon
vw54 ·
Ebay there usuallly go for about $100 when u can find a copy
Phil74Camper ·
And that's way too much money for what is now a pretty ordinary book!
No, there was only 1,500 copies printed of that book, Knowing Australian Volkswagens, and that was back in 1994 (it sold for $25 then). It's way out of date now, and lacking a lot of info in many areas. I thought about putting out an updated version, but the Davies' book The Forgotten Story is so much better graphically. Also, there was royalties and sharing involved since my book had a co-writer, Dave Long, who I don't associate with any more.
I only have two copies myself - a pristine one and a 'working' one with loose pages. There is another copy in the Club Veedub library, which is available for free borrowing for members if you are interested.
Anyway our new Australian VW History site above has more info than that old book anyway - and it's free. Enjoy!
XXX-1.8T ·
Hi Phil,
love your work but you refer to lanock motors are your sure its not meant to be Lennock motors?
Cheers,
Costa...
1303Steve ·
Hi Costa
Lennox were at Parramatta & Blacktown. Lanock Motors were at Camperdown, Five Dock, St Leonards & Waitara.
Steve
XXX-1.8T ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi Costa
Lennox were at Parramatta & Blacktown. Lanock Motors were at Camperdown, Five Dock, St Leonards & Waitara.
Steve
thanks Steve i stand corrected 🙂
XXX-1.8T ·
BTW i have some omssions that you may want to include:
Guy Harding came first in his class and set a record that im not still is yet to be broken at the Targa Tasmania in his 61 Beetle (i think).
Also im suprised nothing was mentioned about Muller and Muller being mentioned as they were a dealership that sold a lot of cars and now fix VW that is still around today.
58camper ·
Lee,
I dont have registration numbers but do have production numbers ( off the production line) from Clayton coveirng the Auto models 114032 and 114132 as below;
114032 Started Mar 69 ended Dec 70 1269 units
114132 Started Jan 71ended Dec 72 867 units.
I have production numbers for all models but no linkages to chassis numbers covering all the units produced in Clayton from Year 1 to 1975 apart from a 6 month period June 74 to Dec 74
Regards,
countrybuggybill
Volksaddict ·
great work Phil...lucky to have a copy ..great read ..Know of a "mint" copy for sale for $!00!!
vw54 ·
Costa
there were a few more VWs in the Targa before that time
but it was a great effort 4 sure
volumex ·
Lanocks Northside opening flyer
68AutoBug ·
Phil74Camper wrote:No, there was only 1,500 copies printed of that book, Knowing Australian Volkswagens, and that was back in 1994 (it sold for $25 then).
I only have two copies myself - a pristine one and a 'working' one with loose pages. There is another copy in the Club Veedub library, which is available for free borrowing for members if you are interested.
Phil,
I was looking for a copy of that book for many years..
closest I came, was there was a copy in a Victorian Library
While on a months holiday in Adelaide a few years ago I went to a South Australian Library and asked for a loan of Your book.. this was the same time as a Major Australian airline went bust.. the book was on one of these planes..
and it finally arrived a week after i had left.... lol
so i still haven't seen it...
LEE
PS: I do have the new book...
Phil74Camper ·
Hi Costa,
Yes Steve is right, Lennox motors were located originally in Parramatta (they were named after the Lennox Bridge across the Parramatta River). They were first located on the corner of George & Smith Sts (now an office building), then set up another branch at the south end of Church St, about where the motorway flyover is now. In the early 1970s these two were closed and a new Lennox showroom was opened on Church St at North Parramatta, near Fennell St. It closed in 1979. Lennox also had a second branch at Blacktown, on Sunnholt Rd.
Lanock Motors, on the other hand, were a division of LNC Industries, the NSW, and later Australian, VW distributors. 'Lanock' is an made-up name that combines the surnames of two of the LNC directors, Lane and Locke. LNC, by the way, stands for 'Larke, Neave and Carter', three of the founding members of the car dealership in Camperdown (1930s) that originally sold Chevrolets and, later, Rovers. When Lanock Motors was formed in 1954 to sell VWs, they swapped a workshop at Rushcutters Bay with LNC's Rover division. Rushcutters Bay became Grenville Motors (Rover), and Camperdown became Lanock Motors (VW). Lanock Motors later grew to become the biggest Volkswagen dealer in Australia.
That opening brochure is brilliant! I remember Lanocks at St Leonards from my earliest days as my granny lived in Reserve Rd, just around the corner, and we had to drive past every time we visited. I went there the week it closed in 1991; very sad. It's a Holden dealer now, but the layout and buildings are still the same.
Muller and Muller were not the first or longest VW dealer. The VW dealer in Lakemba was originally Ronstan Motors (where the Toyota dealer is now). They stopped selling VWs in 1968. 'Muller and Markwell' took over; they had been an independent VW workshop for a few years prior. In 1970 Markwell left the business and it became Muller and Muller. They became the last remaining Sydney VW dealer from the air-cooled era when McCallum Motors closed in 1992, but Muller and Muller lost the 'official VW dealer' status in 1996. Yes they are still around. Sydney's oldest existing Volkswagen dealer is Chatswood Classic Cars, which began in 1989. The longest existing VW dealer in Sydney was Lanock Motors Camperdown, which lasted 1954-1991 (37 years).
It would be good to document the VW history of Targa Tasmania each year since it began. I only mentioned Boris and George as the first; I know there have been others since. The VWs never get a mention in the papers! This sounds like a project for another day.
1303Steve ·
Hi Phil
As I understand it, Muller & Muller were at 1st a VW workshop and parts outlet only and later became a new car seller.
Steve
Phil74Camper ·
Hi Steve,
Yes you're right. Mullers were listed in the glovebox VW dealer list booklets after 1968 (and also in the phone books of the time), but they didn't specify whether a 'VW dealer' was a sales/service centre, or just parts/service. Even today, there is no VW dealer in south-west Sydney apart from Liverpool and Sutherland.
It's a simple matter to do a spreadsheet of all Sydney VW dealers over the years, as the Mitchell Library has all the old Sydney phone books on microfiche (going right back to the late 1890s!). You just start at 1954 and look at each year in turn. This I've already done, so I know where and when all Sydney VW dealers began and ended.
Country and interstate dealers are a different matter. NSW Country phone books are split into area code region, so there are about 8 books to look at for every year. I started to do this but got sick of it very quickly. And the NSW State Library doesn't have interstate phone books apart from the major centres, and even then not all of them.
I'll start another post about the histories of Volkswagen dealerships around Australia - it's very interesting. Here's some things to ponder - which Australian town/suburb has had the most different VW dealers over the years? Do any other cities or towns have any dealers today that were around in the air-cooled era (Sydney doesn't). What is the oldest existing VW dealer in Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide? Or Australia?
68AutoBug ·
When I lived in Gloucester in the late 60s there was a VW dealer there..
and I used to talk to the mechanics etc..
the owner was Bill Musserud and I met Him about 20 years ago at a Fiat New Holland conference - he was also a FIAT tractor dealer..
He is still there AFAIK but no longer sells VWs...
He probably stopped selling VWs around 1976 when VW Australasia finished up...
Cardiff Motors at Cardiff and also Hamilton [around Newcastle] were also big VW sellers in the early 60s - 70s
along with RH Taylor who had dealerships at Scone Muswellbrook Maitland and Newcastle
Lee
Phil74Camper ·
Hi Lee,
My VW dealer database is incomplete, but as for the NSW towns you mention:
There were three different VW dealers in Gloucester. Gloucester Truck and Machinery Co, 35 Church St, started sometime before 1962, ended 1967. Replaced by Mussared Bros, same address, 1968 to 1975. Mussared Bros then moved to Denison Street in 1976, and ended sometime between 1982 and 1990.
Cardiff Motors were at 454 Main Rd, Cardiff, from sometime before 1962, up to 1967.
Cardiff Motors Hamilton were at 71-75 Tudor St from 1968 to at least 1982. By 1989 they had changed to Regal Motors. In 1992 they moved to 67 Tudor St, where they stayed until at least 1999. In 2004 a new dealer called Hunter City Volkswsagen began at 49-57 Tudor St. This became Kloster Volkswagen in 2007.
Scone's VW dealer was T.H. Evans and Co at 68 Kelly St, from before 1962 to 1964. In 1965 they were replaced by Hunter Valley Machinery Co on the corner of Muffett and Sherwood Sts, which ended in 1978.
Muswellbrook's VW dealer was Auto Service on Maitland Road from before 1962 to 1963. In 1964 they were replaced by Hunter Valley Machinery Co at 104-106 Sydney Rd, which ended in 1977.
Maitland's VW dealer was R.H. Taylor & Co at 503 High Street Maitland West, from before 1962 to 1968. They moved to 555-557 High Street in 1969 and lasted until 1978. A new dealer, George White Motors, began at 317-323 High St in 1979 and ended in 1994. There was also a VW dealer at Mayfield, Ron Bowers Motors, who lasted from before 1962 to 1978.
Newcastle's first VW dealer was Lawton Motors, who began at 780-786 Hunter St sometime before 1962, and ended in 1963. They were replaced by R.H. Taylor at 484 King St in 1964. They moved to 474 King St in 1966. They ended some time after 1982 (I have no information on VW dealers from 1983-89). There was a short-lived VW dealer called Hunter City Classic Cars at 49-57 Tudor St, 2001-2002.
There was another R.H. Taylor dealership at Stroud, on Cowper St, but they closed by 1964.
Does anyone have VW dealership listings/booklets from before 1962, 1971-72, 1979-81 or 1983-89? I am missing these years...
VWCOOL ·
Love your work, sensational stuff for all the history buffs 😎
squizy ·
Great thread. 👍
vw54 ·
Phil
Ive just copied n posted to you 3 issues
one prior to Aug 1957 as it has an Oval on the cover
may 1958 issue
feb 1959 issue
the next copy i have is dated Sep 1962 let me know if you need a copy of that one
the ones from the 80s all have the "" VW badge "" on the cover
issued by Volksagen Australia a Division os LNC there NOT dated stamped
however Swantons is listed in all of them as being in Hudson st
Phil74Camper ·
Thanks Dave, that's brilliant. '57-'58-59 will fill in a lot of gaps. Maybe someone on the forum might have '60 or '61 in their collection?
I already have 1962, thanks, but not 1963, '65 or '67. I suppose Sept '62 is CLOSE to '63, but let's see if someone else has a '63 list.
Yeah I thought the '80s ones would be quite difficult to find, due to the miniscule number of new VWs sold (Transporters only 1983-88). If you can copy them for me, I might be able to work out when each one is through the small changes each year.
Swantons doesn't make sense. According to the Sydney White Pages, they moved from 10 Hudson St to 67 Forest Rd in 1977. They were certainly there by late 1981, as that's where I bought my red Beetle. Maybe LNC Industries got slack in updating their dealer lists; not surprising as they were slack in everything else VW-related in the '80s too.
1303Steve ·
Hi Phil
I worked at Swantons, service and parts were in Hudson Street, new & used cars sales were in Forest Road. In about 75 or 76 they moved service & spares into Forest with new & used cars after renovations.
Steve
vw54 ·
no it was much later than that
Phil74Camper ·
Swantons was listed in the 1976 White Pages as being at Hudson St, same with the July 1976 VW dealership booklet.
In the 1977 White Pages, Swantons are listed at 71 Forest Rd (only). However, they are still listed at Hudson St in the June 1977 dealership booklet (which Phill Lander passed on to me).
The June 1978 dealership booklet is then updated to Forest Rd. Unfortunately, neither source lists Swantons as having two sites at once. I suspect LNC Industries was simply slower to update than Telecom was.
How long did the changeover process take, Steve? I know first hand that everything was at Forest Rd by 1981.
I fear that it will be impossible to establish a definitive record - but we'll try!
thugbug ·
Thugbugs first show ! - Mullers at Lakemba,1974. yay. great info Phil74Camper.
1303Steve ·
Hi
I cant remember the exact dates, but I left Swantons to work at Cloughs of Bankstown in 1977, the move to Forest Road was completed by then.
Steve
vw54 ·
I know they were in Forest in Aug 1981
as i bought a 54 from they for the grand sum of $80 hehehehehe
vw54 ·
I already have 1962, thanks, but not 1963, '65 or '67. I suppose Sept '62 is CLOSE to '63, but let's see if someone else has a '63 list
Ok this is what i have let me know which to copy
sep 62
jan 63
sep 63
nov 64
apr 65
oct 65
nov 66
may 67
nov 69
then 4 editions not date stamped but different from LNC as per above
Phil74Camper ·
Hi Dave,
Looks like you've got lots of early ones, nearly the whole set!
I have the Sep '62; I reckon there won't be many changes to Jan '63. Can you copy me:
Sep 63
Oct 65
May 67
Plus the 4 later ones that aren't date stamped? I think we have enough info already to work out when they were. eg, from the Sydney White Pages:
Cloughs were listed in 1978 but not in 1979
Blacktown's dealer was RR Gore from 1973-78, then Lennox Motors from 1979
Hibiscus Motors at Caringbah were listed in 1977-78-79 only. Tynan Motors (same address, 144 Taren Point Rd) were 1980-81 only.
Manly Repair Centre at Manly Vale were listed 1971-79 only.
Lanock Motors Maroubra were 1972-81 only.
In Penrith, Barry Dyer Motors were listed 1973-77. Alan Whittaker Motors was 1978-81
And so on - should be able to work it out.
68AutoBug ·
Hi
Hunter valley machinery company was owned by RH Taylor
with head office in Maitland..
they were in Scone Muswellbrook Maitland [RH Taylor] and Stroud.. owned by Dick Taylor..
Ron Bower was a big VW dealer in the 60s around Newcastle... they are still about but only as a smash repairer..
Lee
Phil74Camper ·
Thanks to everyone who has given feedback on the VW history page, and to those who have pointed out some errors.
I've asked Steve Carter to make the following corrections:
From 1976:
The Golf is released onto the market in March, joining the Passat as the second water-cooled VW model sold in Australia. Locally assembled by Nissan at Clayton, alongside the Passat, 1600 Beetle and Transporter, it is released in 1600cc LS form only, in three or five-door manual, or five-door auto versions.
(I made a mistake about the door variations available)
From 1990:
A luxury syncro 4WD version of the Double Cab is also announced - the Tristar - but only one of these ever arrives. Instead, Graham Lees uses a base twin-cab Syncro 16" to compete in the Australian Safari, winning his class.
Also from 1990:
The Passat B3 is displayed at the Sydney Motor Show, in both sedan and wagon layouts, together with a choice of collectable Australian-edition brochures, but only 13 of them would be imported before the model is discontinued.
(The Tri-star was promoted but, apart from one red example, was not sold here. Grahame Lees' Safari Kombi was not a Tri-Star, but a Syncro 16". Magazines and newspapers of the time called it a Tri-star, but it wasn't.)
From 1991:
Lanock Motors, once Australia's largest Volkswagen dealer, is closed down and their last two sites are sold. The St Leonards site closes first, and later becomes a Holden dealer (and, in 2008, a Skoda dealer).
(I only just found out that the former Lanock Motors site at St Leonards is now selling Skodas! Hunter Holden is listed as 4 Herbert St; North Shore Skoda is 10 Herbert St)
From 2006:
Also made in Poland, the windowed and trimmed Caddy Life can seat seven people, convert to a van or any arrangement in between.
(I made a mistake - the Caddy/Caddy Life are made in Poland, not Spain).
From 2008:
It is joined by a new turbo diesel version, the Golf GT Sport TDI. It has a 125 kW / 390 Nm 2.0-litre diesel engine, with direct-injection 'pumpe-duse' technology. The power output is exactly the same as the 1.4 petrol, but with 90 Nm more torque.
(The TDI is not twin-charged - only the petrol version is)
Glad we cleared that up!
phaeton ·
Hi Phil ,
Firstly great work on getting this up I applaud your work: yes:
I helped out with some of your last edit through the Vortex - Poland instead of Spain and the LT 3.5 to 7.5 which you have clarified up 😉
Also you have written the the Polo GTI made its Global Debut @ AIMS 2005 it is sort of true, you see Tokyo Motor Show started a day or so before AIMS, VW debuted the Polo GTI there first but the all the fuss was made in Sydney due to Wolfgang Bernhard's visit.
Also the Victorian and NSW Ambualnce Services do use T5 Ambulances and if your interested SA Police have had one T4 and currently one T5 V6 Police Van
What about Hollywood Motors in Liverpool I used to buy parts from them in 1976 I think they were VW and Audi Dealers
phaeton ·
From SmartTalk Issue 3 the Official Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles Newsletter
Phil74Camper ·
Wow, that is brilliant! Have seen no mention of this in Sydney at all. Thanks for the links.
My sister is an Ambo based in the 'Shire'; her station uses MB Sprinters exclusively. But I'll ask her about the T5 when I see her next; perhaps they are somwhere else about.
I have seen a few of the NSW police T5s about. I had it in the back of my mind to write to their PR dept for info on them, but never got around to it.
Also I didn't know that VGA publish an additional newsletter for Commercial Vehicles only! I must try to get back issues. At least I've managed to get copies of all the 'Volkswagen Magazine Australia' issues, although it's been tricky as they are only published once every six months.
Thanks to everyone for all your help with the history. There's so much to it that it's just impossible for one person to get everything right, but at least we are getting closer now!
Hollywood Motors was the third Volkswagen dealer in Liverpool. The first one was Peter Warren Motors (yes, THAT Peter Warren), who had a VW dealership on the corner of Elizabeth St and Hume Hwy, from 1959 to 1966. The old Hume Hwy is now Macquarie Street, and is cut completely by the Westfield Shopping Centre. No trace of this old site exists, as it has been built over by the shopping centre. In 1967 a new VW dealer opened at 50 Hume Hwy (still Macquarie St today), Provincial Motors. They changed to become a Datsun dealer in 1975, and today the site has a modern office block on it. Hollywood Motors at 420 Hume Hwy (cnr Mill Rd) opened in 1978, and stopped selling VWs in 1988. They were a Subaru dealer for a few years after that, then it was 'Tokyo Motors Used Cars', but today the site is a bulldozed vacant lot. The current VW dealer, McGrath Autohaus at Boundary Rd and Hume Hwy, opened in 2003.
vw54 ·
Phil copied
amazeer ·
Not quite on topic Phil, but the town in VIC where my old man comes from, St Arnaud, hasnt moved along very much. Think they have one set of traffic lights in town. But for as long as I can remember there has been an empty showroom with Chevrolet/Holden/ and I think Pontiac etched windows. probably worth some money! I havent been there for a few years though. It was easily the coolest thing in town. Other than you can go on an all night pub crawl and not leave town. No idea how a small town like that can support so many pubs, though it might explain my old mans appetite for ale.
whatnow ·
hi phil, if you are interested in a copy of the dealer book that came with my 56 pm an email address. the manual is the august 55 edition, but i didn't see any date on the dealer list. . at the moment all i have are photo's as my scanner hates me.
henry.
Phil74Camper ·
Henry, that would be brilliant, thanks. The '55 is probably the first one they produced.
Hi Chris, yes I love the idea of old forgotten bypassed towns with old car dealer buildings still standing. I have fantasies about finding an abandoned locked up '60s Volkswagen dealership in a tiny country town, with a forgotten attic full of NOS parts and brochures. You never know...
I'd never heard of St Arnaud until I looked it up! No Volkswagen dealer was ever there. Nearby, Ararat had Bowman's Motors at 38 Tuson St from 1956-62, then 30-32 Tson St from 1963-65. I wonder what's there now?! Bendigo had three different VW dealers; Horsham had four.
But I guess the closest to St Arnaud would have been Warracknabeal. It had Daniels Motors at 14 Scott St from 1956 to 1965, then GF & LM Corazza at 14 Franklin St from 1966 to 1974. Now THERE's some candidates for having long lost VW parts in the attic! Wonder what's there now?
amazeer ·
Use google street view to find out!
Twinkle ·
Ive just found this thread its fantastic am just going to check out the site to see what i can learn about my 58 bug!
VDU.88A ·
A work collegue has asked me if i knew who was the oldest vw dealer in sydney he thought it may have been a place by the name of BARKER MOTOR COMPANY which he thought later became lennox possibly lanock motors. From reading thought this post it appears RR Gore became lennox motors. Does anyone know about the Barker motor co possibly located near killara. Any help would be good.
Phil74Camper ·
Hi, Barker Motors at Killara was established in the 1950s, on the Pacific Highway. They were one of several VW dealerships established on Sydney's north shore, alongside Lanock Motors at St Leonards and Waitara, Freshwater Motors in Manly, Youngs at Collaroy and G Brothers at Mona Vale. Lanock Motors (Australia's largest Volkswagen dealership group) bought out Barker Motors in 1966. This got a mention in LNC Industries' annual report of 1966. Barkers then became Lanock Motors Killara. This branch closed in the late 1970s. For many years after that the site was a Mitsubishi dealership. For several years in the mid 1990s the site was again a VW dealership (a branch of Northshore Automotive I think) but that also closed. I am not sure what is there now!
The 'oldest' VW dealership in Sydney is difficult to say for certain, as several of them all started in 1954. Regent Motors in Melbourne was the very first (beginning in late 1953), but NSW VW sales did not begin until Easter 1954 - the NSW VW launch was at the 1954 Royal Easter Show! LNC Industries already owned Grenville Motors (the Rover dealer), and when they were awarded the VW business for NSW, they initially set up a VW dealership and distribution centre at Rushcutters Bay, called Lanock Motors (from the names of two LNC Industries board members, Lane and Locke). They then traded the Larke Neave and Carter (LNC) Rover dealerships at Camperdown and Crows Nest for VW dealerships, which became Lanock Motors branches. Other VW dealers to start in 1954 included the Lanock headquarters on William St in the city, as well as two other city dealerships called Charley and Lord. The Rushcutters Bay centre became Jack Jeffrey Motors.
The Camperdown Lanock Motors was the biggest and longest lasting - the service area on Australia St had a feature called the 'tunnel of love'. The Rent-A-Camper business was also based at Camperdown. It closed in 1991 when Lanocks was sold to City Ford, and dissolved. Today the site is a Toyota dealership.
Lennox is a different business entirely. They were only ever based at Parramatta (from the late 1960s), and Blacktown (1970s).
The last VW dealership from the air-cooled era to survive was Muller and Muller at Lakemba. They began as an unofficial VW service workshop in the early 1960s (called Muller and Markwell), and became an official VW dealer when Ronstan Motors became a Toyota dealer in 1967. Initially they were only a service centre, but later sold new VWs too. They lost their status as an official VW dealer in 1995, but they are still in business.
The oldest Sydney VW dealer today is Chatswood Classic Cars, which began in 1989.
modulus ·
Great information! This cleared up a lot of model doubts I had.
Thank you.
vw54 ·
hi phil, if you are interested in a copy of the dealer book that came with my 56 pm an email address.
Henry While yr at the photocopier please push the 2 copies button as i would like one to PM sent my Address
Thanks
grumble ·
In 1966 I started my apprenticeship at Mid North Coast Motors new premises at Purfleet(now Taree South).The previous premises were in Crescent Ave Taree,this was a big multi franchise selling and servicing Volkswagen,Rover,land Rover,Rambler,Fiat and the occasional Citroen and in the late 1960's Datsun.The business was owned by Bert Tickner from Forster who also owned the Sunliner caravan factory( these were made to be towed by the mighty 1200 36hp beetle. There was a fleet of these vans for hire at the time.The on site training was good as the new models came out the dealer reps would travel to the dealerships and carry out training schools for the staff. I remember one of the the first reps I knew as Hermann Maher who could drive the bum off the company 1200 bug,sideways most of the time,coming over the 4 mile into Taree when the police caught him on the wrong side of the double yellow lines. His argument was that only 2 were on the wrong side and they happened to be the front wheels.These guys did a lot of work with the Southern Cross Rally Team The later training schools were held at VWA in Ryde.
1500S ·
Phil74Camper wrote:Hi Dave,
Looks like you've got lots of early ones, nearly the whole set!
I have the Sep '62; I reckon there won't be many changes to Jan '63. Can you copy me:
Sep 63
Oct 65
May 67
Plus the 4 later ones that aren't date stamped? I think we have enough info already to work out when they were. eg, from the Sydney White Pages:
Cloughs were listed in 1978 but not in 1979
Blacktown's dealer was RR Gore from 1973-78, then Lennox Motors from 1979
Hibiscus Motors at Caringbah were listed in 1977-78-79 only. Tynan Motors (same address, 144 Taren Point Rd) were 1980-81 only.
Manly Repair Centre at Manly Vale were listed 1971-79 only.
Lanock Motors Maroubra were 1972-81 only.
In Penrith, Barry Dyer Motors were listed 1973-77. Alan Whittaker Motors was 1978-81
And so on - should be able to work it out.
Just looking at this one about Lennox Motors at Blacktown and something looks wrong with those dates. It was trading as Lennox Motors during the 60s to the 70s as I was involved socially with that company through a number of the mechanics working there. Some names which some may remember:
Harold Upston...spares, has been at Cowra for many years.
Les Gabriel, Neil Lennox,Heinz Wehmeyer... mechanics
Noel "Granny" Caterson... Manager.
Blacktown branch closed from memory during the mid 70s and moved totally to the other branch at Church Street, Parramatta before it's final demise.
We had a VW dealer in Windsor, NSW but can't remember it's trading name. It was situated at the site where the garage now is adjacent to McQuade park on the road between Windsor and Richmond.
I believe that the first VW sales during the 50s in Windsor was by Bob Pye who owned a service station at South Windsor.
Just a bit of our local VW history!!
DH
whatnow ·
phil, dave, the check's in the mail. merry christmas.
Phil74Camper ·
Hi Grumble, fantastic first-hand info there, many thanks! Yes according to the VW dealership lists (which I am trying to collect and turn into a spreadsheet), Mid-North Coast Motors at Crescent Ave were the first VW dealership in Taree, starting sometime before 1957. They moved to the Pacific Hwy (the lists were no more specific than that) in 1967. In 1974 they changed their trading name to 'M.N.C. Motors Pty Ltd' but this is obviously still the same business. The address was now listed as 70-80 Victoria St. This dealership closed (or stopped selling VWs anyway) sometime between 1978 and 1982, by which time another VW dealership, Taree Continental Car Sales, had started on the corner of Crescent Ave (Pacific Hwy) and Railway Pde. As far as I can tell, this dealer was still going in 2006 but was not listed for 2007. Do you have any photos of the old dealers when they were active? What is on the sites nowadays?
Yes DH I didn't give the complete story of VW dealers in Blacktown, and you are right. In fact, Blacktown has had SIX different VW dealers so far, and maybe a seventh next year if a new VW dealer opens - in the latest Volkswagen Magazine Australia, they list a new Blacktown dealer under construction.
Anyway, Midland Motors was the first VW dealer in Blacktown, opening on 220 Sunnyholt Rd in 1960. This became Lennox Motors, on the same site, in 1964. The first Lennox Motors dealership had opened in Parramatta in 1961 (Lennox Motors was named after the Lennox Bridge across the Parramatta River). In 1965, Lennox opened a second Blacktown site at 130 Main Street, and for two years there were two Lennox Motors in Blacktown, but this one closed in 1967. The 220 Sunnyholt Rd site closed in 1968, and was replaced by a new Lennox Motors site at 102 Sunnyholt Rd which also opened in 1968. There is nothing left of the 220 Sunnyholt Rd site today - the area has been redeveloped into an industrial estate. In 1974 the Lennox Motors dealership became R.R. Gore Pty Ltd, but in 1979 it changed back to Lennox Motors. It survived as Lennox Motors until 1986, when it became Crest Autos Pty Ltd, still at 102 Sunnyholt Rd (on the corner of Bessimer St). This finally closed in 1988. The site was a tool hire shop for many years, then a Daihatsu dealership, but Google Earth Street View shows the site currently vacant and For Lease (the buildings are all original). I don't suppose there are any VW parts left in the attic !
Lennox Motors at Parramatta is another story...
Phil74Camper ·
BTW, thanks for mentioning Windsor, which would have been a quaint, remote little country town during VW's air-cooled era, not the booming Sydney suburb it is today!
The first VW dealership in Windsor was Condon's Truck and Tractor Service, which became a VW agency in 1957 at 6-9 Richmond Rd. They must have lost the VW franchise in 1960, or went out of business, as there is no agency listed in Windsor for 1960-61. In 1962 a new VW agency, Robwitson Pty Ltd, was listed at the same 6-9 Richmond Rd address. In 1963 this was relisted as the Highway Garage Windsor Pty Ltd, still at the same address. This closed in 1967. There was no VW dealer in Windsor again until 1975, when Bangalow Motors Pty Ltd opened at 98 Macquarie St. I remember this one. It also sold Subarus, and later Hondas. It stopped being a VW agency in 1985, and there has been no VW dealer in Windsor since.
Looking at the street directory, I am guessing that 'Richmond Rd' is now Hawkesbury Valley Way, in which case yes the original VW dealer (3 names) would have been opposite McQuade Park. There is a 7-11 servo there, as you say, so you'd never guess this was once a VW dealer.
Oh, and the former Bangalow Motors site on Macquarie St, which was a tiny, pokey little shop with a small lot, has been bulldozed and redeveloped into a huge Toyota dealer.
matara ·
Phil, do you have any more detail on the 61 cabrio beetles that were imported for the Melbourne motor show in 1961. I have a 61 factory cabrio with chassis number 3558067 and was wondering if this might be one of them. Do you know how many were brought in?
Cheers
Steve
1500S ·
Phil74Camper wrote:BTW, thanks for mentioning Windsor, which would have been a quaint, remote little country town during VW's air-cooled era, not the booming Sydney suburb it is today!
The first VW dealership in Windsor was Condon's Truck and Tractor Service, which became a VW agency in 1957 at 6-9 Richmond Rd. They must have lost the VW franchise in 1960, or went out of business, as there is no agency listed in Windsor for 1960-61. In 1962 a new VW agency, Robwitson Pty Ltd, was listed at the same 6-9 Richmond Rd address. In 1963 this was relisted as the Highway Garage Windsor Pty Ltd, still at the same address. This closed in 1967. There was no VW dealer in Windsor again until 1975, when Bangalow Motors Pty Ltd opened at 98 Macquarie St. I remember this one. It also sold Subarus, and later Hondas. It stopped being a VW agency in 1985, and there has been no VW dealer in Windsor since.
Looking at the street directory, I am guessing that 'Richmond Rd' is now Hawkesbury Valley Way, in which case yes the original VW dealer (3 names) would have been opposite McQuade Park. There is a 7-11 servo there, as you say, so you'd never guess this was once a VW dealer.
Oh, and the former Bangalow Motors site on Macquarie St, which was a tiny, pokey little shop with a small lot, has been bulldozed and redeveloped into a huge Toyota dealer.
Good to see this history coming up here! Even though I've lived here in the Hawkesbury all the time, it's easy to forget some of the names of the early business names. One of the mechanics at Highway Garage was Tony Neal. Went to old Richmond High about the same era as I did. Tony moved north to Lismore area in about the early 80s. Lost track of him when his parents moved up there as well.
As a point of interest, the only Karmann Ghia in the area was owned by Mrs Bob Mayne. The brother of Mrs Mayne, Vic Gillespie, also the Mayor of Windsor, drove an Oval Bug around into the 60s. The old @#$!! wouldn't sell it to me no matter how hard I begged back then!
BY THE WAY! Windsor is still a good old town on it's own! We don't like our Macquarie towns lumped as "suburbs of Sydney"!🙅 Fitzroy bridge should still be a toll gate with day passes only and proof of convict ancestry mandatory.🥲
DH
PS. Phil
The new Hawkesbury Valley Way is only the new high level road from Groves Ave to Macquarie St. Richmond Road (not to be confused with the Blacktown-Richmond Road) is from Macquarie Street, Windsor to Windsor Street, Richmond (along past the RAAF Base).
Phil74Camper ·
Hi Steve, sorry mate no I don't have any specific details on chassis numbers for cars imported /sold by VW Australia, or even how many were brought in. The FCAI, as I have mentioned, only records 'VW 1200' sales for 1961. On another post we were wondering about the numbers of Cabrios imported in '61; some had said 20, I think I was, but I had only heard of around half a dozen. I think there were only two on display at the Melbourne Show in 1961.
There are a couple of ways you could check, if you have any free time over the holiday period! The State Library of NSW in Macquarie St keeps old issues of Australian magazines and newspapers on file. They have Modern Motor from June 1954 on (Q629.205/1, Mitchell Library), as well as Wheels (NQ629.205/21) from May 1953. You could pop in there and ask them to retrieve the issues for 1961; the car magazines would have had Melbourne Motor Show special articles. This might give you more info on the 1961 Melbourne Show and the cars on show. I don't know what month of the year the Melbourne car show was/is - so you could always spend a happy afternoon reading ALL issues for 1961. Think of all the other cool VW stuff you might stumble across...
Once you know the dates of the Melbourne show for 1961, you could also look at the Melbourne Age newspaper for that time, as they would also have published a Melbourne Motor Show special. The NSW State Library has the Sydney Morning Herald on microfiche, but I don't know if they have the Age - they might. Otherwise you would need to visit the National Library in Canberra, or the State Library of VIC in Melbourne. Or ask one of our Victorian friends to look! The fiche readers are like printers and can do an A4 hard copy of whatever part of the fiche you like. Anyway, the State Library is a very interesting place to visit and their staff are always helpful.
Even so, I doubt whether this will give chassis numbers. Without your original owners papers, it would be very difficult to know. You could try writing to the VW museum in Germany - some of the people here have done that for their cars. Since the Cabrios were German-made, their info could be useful, but they charge $$ for it.
Phil74Camper ·
Below is a list of Sydney VW dealers from 1960, 27 of them (or 28 if you include the Lanock Motors head office showroom in William St). Interesting - there are only 9 VW dealers in Sydney today, selling about the same number of VWs, to twice as many people as 1960.
These sorts of lists are dynamic; they change continually. Sydney dealers to have just closed before this list was published include Draper Motors at Crows Nest, and Sleet Brothers at Ramsgate. Robert Dewley at Bankstown had just replaced the previous Ashtons Car Sales. Jack Jeffrey's VW workshops at Bondi and Rushcutters Bay aren't included, for some reason. And new dealers at Mosman, Parramatta and Kirrawee would open later the same year.
Old Dubber ·
I visited the VW factory in Wolfsburg many years ago. I arranged a meeting with the archives person and requested any information on the Australian content. All they could provide were the sales figures and financials. There was no detail on Serial numbers etc.
They would not allow me to photocopy any of the material, which was not much by the way. The person I spoke to, more or less implied, that the information I was seeking would be able to be supplied by Volkswagen Australia. I subsequently wrote to VW Australia, but did not get a reply.
I wrote down some of the info which I will try and find!
Grahame
Phil74Camper ·
While you can pay money for the history certificate for your VW from the Wolfsburg museum, I don't think this is reliable for Australian-manufactured VWs up to 1968. I have heard stories of people sending in their 1966-67 chassis numbers - that start 196 or 197 for Aussie VWs - and getting a reply stating that the number is not valid!
Today's Volkswagen Group Australia, created in 2001, does not have any pre-2001 Australian archival VW material or history at all. Their first MD, Peter Nochar, once came to a Club Veedub show and was surprised to learn that there was once a VW factory in Australia! Their current MD, Jutta Dierks, gets a free copy of Zeitschrift each month so hopefully she's a bit more aware of our local VW history.
The old Volkswagen Australia, which had its head office in North Ryde, was fully owned by LNC Industries, which had the Australian VW franchise from 1968 until 1987. Their division called 'Volkswagen Australia Pty Ltd' was closed in 1984. From 1984 to 1987 VW sales and service was handled by 'LNC Distribution'. In 1987 LNC reliquished the VW business to Ateco Industries, which was taken over by TKM Automotive in 1990. TKM was taken over in turn by Inchape Plc in 1992. Inchape traded under the 'TKM Automotive Australia' name for several more years before changing the VW business name to 'Volkswagen Distributors'. There really wasn't any such thing as 'VW Australia' at this time. None of these businesses would have had any idea of 1960s Australian VW history, so I'm not surprised you didn't get a reply.
As the Club Veedub editor, I personally crossed swords with several of the TKM/Inchcape heavies in the 1990s. Their PR guy Nick Senior, who never answered my letters either, now works for Subaru. Former MD Peter Sturrock organised a '100th birthday party' for Audi in 1994, and when I pointed out that today's Audi has only existed since 1967, he complained. He now works for the FCAI. Another Inchcape PR hack, Edward Rowe, once complained when I criticised the then New Beetle, and he questioned my VW enthusiasm. He now works for Fiat.
Today's VW Group Australia isn't perfect either - remember the Touareg ad, 'Announcing our first ever 4x4?' But they are a lot better than TKM/Inchcape.
58camper ·
Phil,
I found a VWA Review for September 1963 where the published sales numbers you obtained are different to those produced by Volkswagen Australasia in their own publication. A copy is attached. There are some decent differences and they may all be related to timing.
I also read where the Sedan made its debut in Australia on December 11th 1953 when exhibited in Melbourne. That is a couple of months later than the October date you indicated.
countrybuggybill
Phil74Camper ·
Hi Bill,
Yes there are some minor differences. They do seem to generally tally with some minor differences here and there. Yes timing could be the reason; also my figures come from the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries, while VW's figures could have come from the Victorian Chamber of Automotive Industries (separate organisation). Who knows? And which set of figures do we believe? At least now the VFACTS figures (which come from the FCAI) are universal.
That's the first time I have seen December 1953 stated as the Australian debut - I suppose they were displayed at Regent Motors (Spencer Motors)?
pete wood ·
nother pic of a VW in action..
Dyno ·
Been through Warracknabeal and walked through the old dealer buildings. The service entry and colour scheme was still there on the scott st building. all were totally empty though.
Phil74Camper ·
I don't know Victoria very well - I had to look at a map to even see where Warracknabeal is!
I do know that Daniels Motors, the local VW dealer, was at 14 Scott St from 1956 to 1968. You can't really trust Google Earth Street View to get the street numbers completely right, but that looks like the corner store below. It looks like it's the 'Wheatlands Warehouse' second-hand store. Around the corner, in Phillips St, you can see the former service entry and back compound.
From 1968 to 1974, Warracknabeal's new VW dealer was G.F. & L.M. Corazza, at 14 Franklin St. There's no Street View along this one, so I can't tell what's there. This one would need local knowledge.
1966- 1965 - but this covers 1960-1969, so shouldn't that be
1960- 1965
Old Dubber ·
Phil,
Have found the info I referred to above on a visit to the Factory, will email it to you
Grahame
Phil74Camper ·
Desh you are quite right, the 1966-65 heading is a typo. It should be 1960-65 as you say, as the pages are broken into 5-year chunks.
Unfortunately I only write the content; Steve1303 is our Webmaster and he does the headings! I will be updating the 2008 info shortly, so I'll try to get that typo fixed. Thanks for your feedback!
phaeton ·
VW Sales figures for 2008.
Polo = 2362
Golf = 11632
New Beetle = 613
New Beetle Cabrio = 177
Jetta = 2936
Eos = 1852
Passat = 3297
Passat CC = 37
Tiguan = 1109
Touareg = 1066 VW Passenger Cars Total = 25,081
By my calculations VW has sold over 600,000 VWs since they were originally introduced.
Phil74Camper ·
Aha, another person with access to VFACTS sales figures! (I have to sneak in the back way).
Yes I have written a detailed sales summary for VW's 2008 results, and how they compare with history, which will be in the Feb issue of Club Veedub's Zeitschrift magazine. VW's 2008 sales were the second-best ever, beaten only by 1964's result of 31,419. In fact in 1964 the Clayton plant produced over 34,000 VWs, as both complete cars and CKD kits were exported in those days.
Quite right Phaeton, VW passed 600,000 Australian sales in November 2008, but VWGA would not have been aware of it.
The next milestone will be Golf sales. VW has now sold 91,000 Golfs in Australia. As they are selling 11,000+ per year, the 100,000th Australia Golf is due around September this year. It should be quite a year for the Golf, given that the Mk6 is due for local release as well.
phaeton ·
Thats cool figures for the Golf 😎
Looking forward to reading that article 🤓
Do you have the figures listed of a year by year account on PDF by any chances ?
I tried copying figures from the website but got bored of data entry lol.
Hi Steve, sorry mate no I don't have any specific details on chassis numbers for cars imported /sold by VW Australia, or even how many were brought in. The FCAI, as I have mentioned, only records 'VW 1200' sales for 1961. On another post we were wondering about the numbers of Cabrios imported in '61; some had said 20, I think I was, but I had only heard of around half a dozen. I think there were only two on display at the Melbourne Show in 1961.
There are a couple of ways you could check, if you have any free time over the holiday period! The State Library of NSW in Macquarie St keeps old issues of Australian magazines and newspapers on file. They have Modern Motor from June 1954 on (Q629.205/1, Mitchell Library), as well as Wheels (NQ629.205/21) from May 1953. You could pop in there and ask them to retrieve the issues for 1961; the car magazines would have had Melbourne Motor Show special articles. This might give you more info on the 1961 Melbourne Show and the cars on show. I don't know what month of the year the Melbourne car show was/is - so you could always spend a happy afternoon reading ALL issues for 1961. Think of all the other cool VW stuff you might stumble across...
Phil,
Just got my birth cert back from Germany. Appears my car was one of the 1961 Melbourne Motor Show batch, as its marked as being delivered to Australia! Now I'll have to see if I can find anything at the library.
Cheers
Steve
Phil74Camper ·
Good stuff Steve!
A large local library (like mine at Bankstown) should have the Sydney Morning Herald on microfiche, but that will be Sydney-centric. The Sydney show was in August during the 1950s and 1960s, so I suggest you start with the August 1961 reel and see what you find. I don't know if the cabrios were on display in Sydney.
The Melbourne Motor Show was usually March or April, so try the Herald for those months too, but you might not find anything in the Herald. You might have to go to the State Library in town to look at the Melbourne Age on microfiche.
Good luck - let us know what you find.
Looking through old newspapers like this is fabulous. I have recently been looking through the Herald for August 1956, researching the '56 Ampol and Mobilgas trials for a future Zeitschrift article. It's like going back in a time machine.
grumble ·
Phil74Camper wrote:Hi Grumble, fantastic first-hand info there, many thanks! Yes according to the VW dealership lists (which I am trying to collect and turn into a spreadsheet), Mid-North Coast Motors at Crescent Ave were the first VW dealership in Taree, starting sometime before 1957. They moved to the Pacific Hwy (the lists were no more specific than that) in 1967. In 1974 they changed their trading name to 'M.N.C. Motors Pty Ltd' but this is obviously still the same business. The address was now listed as 70-80 Victoria St. This dealership closed (or stopped selling VWs anyway) sometime between 1978 and 1982, by which time another VW dealership, Taree Continental Car Sales, had started on the corner of Crescent Ave (Pacific Hwy) and Railway Pde. As far as I can tell, this dealer was still going in 2006 but was not listed for 2007. Do you have any photos of the old dealers when they were active? What is on the sites nowadays?
Sorry to be so long replying. Mid North Coast Motors moved to Taree South in early 1966 I think,I started there in late 1966,the business changed hands in approx 1970 to 2 partners who split up and then ran two separate franchises. John Cooling carried on at the Taree Sourh premises as Crescent Motors ( Datsun ) and Brian Booth moved the vw dealership MNC Motors to Victoria St in town,I am not sure when it closed down but probably late 1970's.Brian was unfortunately killed in a truck accident shortly afterwards. Taree Subaru took on the franchise and this operated under various owners until late 2007. The site of Mid North Coast Motors is now Fine Line Motorcycles ,MNC Motors is now Windscreens O'Brien and Taree Subaru still operate as such. I will try to obtain some old newspaper clippings of the dealership if possible.
As an afterthought I purchased my 1961 Karmann Ghia second hand from Roberts Auto Centre in Gosford Cheers Les
Phil74Camper ·
Thanks for the memories! Taree does not currently have a VW dealer, but who knows, a new one many start up the way VW sales are going.
Gosford is another town that had a lot of VW dealers over the years - 6 of them.
Roberts Auto Centre opened at 383 Mann St Gosford in 1961, replacing an earlier dealer called Midway Service Station on 'Pacific Highway'. Roberts Auto Centre moved (or expanded?) to 387 Mann St in 1968. They survived until at least 1982. By 1990 a new dealer called Central Coast Motors was listed at the same address, 387 Mann St, but they closed in 1992. Since then Gosford has had Noble Motors, 10 Pacific Hwy (1993-1999), Central Eurocars, 91 Pacific Hwy (2001-2002), and the current VW dealer, Central Coast Motor Group, 360 Mann St (2003-present).
68AutoBug ·
Phil74Camper wrote:Today's VW Group Australia isn't perfect either - remember the Touareg ad, 'Announcing our first ever 4x4?' But they are a lot better than TKM/Inchcape.
Hi Phil,
You will find that people who sell cars, don't get attached to cars brands they sell...
they can switch to Ford from Holden etc...
its only a job... to them..
and the people higher up know nothing about the history of the cars they are selling...
and they didn't even know that VW sold a 4x4 Iltis years ago ???
plus the Kombi Synchros... ??
Lee
-
68AutoBug ·
XXX-1.8T wrote:Hi Phil,
love your work but you refer to lanock motors are your sure its not meant to be Lennock motors?
Cheers,
Costa...
No... Lanock Motors were a BIG VW dealer back in the 60s...
they may have had more than one showroom???
I can remember seeing heaps of beetles with the Lanock motors decal in the rear window... back in the 60s..
LEE
-
68AutoBug ·
VW Birth Certificates for beetles etc sold in the USA...
are virtually useless now...
they cannot verify the engine number or the M codes options..
a waste of money... IMHO...
I believe its due to staff shortages in the Museum....
Lee
HappyDaze ·
Phil74Camper wrote:Swantons was listed in the 1976 White Pages as being at Hudson St, same with the July 1976 VW dealership booklet.
In the 1977 White Pages, Swantons are listed at 71 Forest Rd (only). However, they are still listed at Hudson St in the June 1977 dealership booklet (which Phill Lander passed on to me).
The June 1978 dealership booklet is then updated to Forest Rd. Unfortunately, neither source lists Swantons as having two sites at once. I suspect LNC Industries was simply slower to update than Telecom was.
How long did the changeover process take, Steve? I know first hand that everything was at Forest Rd by 1981.
I fear that it will be impossible to establish a definitive record - but we'll try!
Hi Phil,
Here's my 2c worth. After working at John Owen Motors (VW dealers) at Kirrawee, I worked at Swantons, in their panel shop. This was in Forest Rd, Hurstville - behind their used-car lot. That was 1963.
Dick Swanton (then Swantovski) had a service station on Forest Rd - near Hudson St - in the 1950s called 'The Square Deal'. I think it was in opposition to Otten's 'Four Square' service station around the corner!
Cheers, Greg
Phil74Camper ·
Hi Greg, wow always great to talk to someone who was actually there! Yes Steve Carter also worked at Swantons for a time, but a bit after you I think! I bought my first VW from the Forest Rd used car lot in '82. I wonder what ever happened to Dick Swantovski (probably passed on by now) and his family? There are 15 Swantons listed in the Sydney phone book, but NO Swantovskis.
I did find this period ad:
HappyDaze ·
Probably wasn't very clear. Dick Swantovski - I think that's how it was spelled - changed his name to Swanton.
The panel shop, in Forest Rd, was run by John? Bedford. His brother, Ben was the service manager in the Hudson St complex. Don't know why I remember this stuff!
Cheers, Greg
Phil74Camper ·
I'd actually heard that it was spelled 'Swantiski' but that's probably wrong. No worries, I'd guessed he had changed his name! And from the phone book, it looks like his descendents have decided to stick with 'Swanton' as well.
Do you have any old slides or photos of your old VW dealers Greg?
HappyDaze ·
Sorry Phil, no photos or slides - never thought about any of that. Still have a few memories though.
65standard ·
68AutoBug wrote:VW Birth Certificates for beetles etc sold in the USA...
are virtually useless now...
they cannot verify the engine number or the M codes options..
a waste of money... IMHO...
I believe its due to staff shortages in the Museum....
Lee
I agree about getting the birth certificate not being worth the money, but I did e-mail VW in Germany, quoting my car's details, and it was virtually the birth certificate in e-mail format, stating the Chassis No., Model, Production Date, Delivery Date, Destination and any "Increased Arrangements". Mine had an Automatic System Aerial.
Although I did quote my engine number to them, this was not included in the e-mail for verification. I can only think that as the cars were not CKD kits (for my '65 model anyway), they can't verify which engine went with which car.
Hope this helps those out there wanting info on their car.
Norman
Phil74Camper ·
CKD assembly was only from 1955-59. From 1959 they were fully manufactured - as many components made here as possible - and VW was even constructing an aluminium foundry to make the engine and transmissions. They were aiming for 95% local content and got as high as 80% or so before the project was wound up. CKD assembly returned in 1968.
So for 1959-67 Australian Beetles, the 'birth certificate' info from Germany is unreliable. Yes, Germany has no detailed Australian production information for those years. It did exist, but much of the local information was thrown out when VWA Ltd was dissolved in 1968, again in 1976 when the factory was sold, and again in 1987 when LNC in Sydney gave up the VW franchise.
Today's VWGA has no Australian info prior to 2001.
amazeer ·
Is ebay safe to use? I've never been ripped off on ebay when buying internationally. Got ripped off buy a mega rich car company though. Very disappointed with my birth certificate. It says the car was delivered to Fiji. A lot of them say that apparently. Doesnt even tell me what colour it was. If only I could leave negative feedback.
65standard ·
Today's VWGA has no Australian info prior to 2001.
When I made initial enquiries with them, there retort was that as there were no computers in the 1960's, no records were kept. VW Germany didn't do too bad a job without modern day type computers, and had many more VW's produced there than we had here.
Also, the RTA (NSW) wasn't much more help when trying to chase up information on my car. There records were destroyed prior to 1988, due to storage space. Anything prior to 1988 is unavailable. I did do an online history check of my car, and the information in the report was good, but only from 1988 onwards i.e. How many owners, the usage of the car (business/private) the annual mileage as per pink slip records, whether it has been recorded as a write-off, but lacked first date of registration information
58camper ·
Having had many discussions with ex Clayton employees regarding production numbers and information I dont believe VWA Ltd ever matched chassis numbers to engine numbers as part of the vehicle manufacturing process. Ex employees confirmed that VW Germany provided Clayton with a block of both engine and chassis numbers for Clayton to use. Clayton then started at the first number and worked their way through the pre numbered block of numbers.
The first time that chassis number and engine number were recorded together was at sale time of vehicle when the sales order required recording of both these numbers. Both number were also recorded on service log books.
I was lucky enough to acquire original documentation from the Production Manager which shows Clayton production numbers from day 1 through to the end in December 1975. It includes Type 1, Type 2 Type 3, Country Buggy. Passat and even Audi in later years. Up to 1965 the production numbers are by model only but from January 1966 the production numbers are month by month and model by model.
eg For December 1967 production was;
Model 112 98 units
Model 114 365 units
Model 118 9 units (Sunroof)
Total 472 units for December
There were no records of matched chassis and engine numbers as part of the production line process so the ability to provide detailed birth certificates was not available.
There were no computer records as everything was prepared in hand written records.
At least not everything of the records were destroyed.
countrybuggybill
Phil74Camper ·
Great news Bill, I am very glad that not everything ended up at the Dandenong tip in 1968 !
Computers were certainly around in the 1960s. IBM first introduced the vacuum tube 700 Series computer system in 1953, and the transistorised 7000 series in 1961, the world's first 'supercomputer'. The first proper all-purpose mainframe computer system, the IBM System 360 (because it covered all angles) appeared in 1964. This was the computer system used by NASA for the Gemini and Apollo space programs. LNC Industries (the Australian VW agents after 1968) announced in their 1969 annual report that they had bought an IBM mainframe for their North Ryde headquarters.
As Bill has said, records were certainly kept at Clayton - I think they must have had at least some electronic processing - but the records have not survived, except a tiny portion in the hands of enthusiasts.
For Australian 1959-67 Beetles, don't waste your money on German birth certificates.