straight cut or helical gear?

hello all
I'm rebuilding a 1600 and i've got a scat camshaft that needs a separate cam gear now they have the slant gears ones but all i could find was aluminum ones... and as much light weight as aluminium is i don't want to depend my engine on aluminum teeth so i'm thinking of steel on steel straight cut...
but people says that they are loud noisy and some say it sounds nice smooth and cool
I've never heard one before so if you have any opinion regarding this matter please post your comment thank you

the helical cut aluminium gears will handle what you are asking of them............same as factory.

yes steel on steel straights are loud, and not for everyone, but i manage to live with them every day, sometimes my ears ring a bit tho..........they sound tough and do have some benefits, but also wear quicker

confused yet?..........

you may be able to hear the difference on some of the short videos from the dyno mania threads

straight cuts are LOUD and anoying after a very short time and theres absolutly NO advantage

Hi

All factory gears were steel on the crank and alloy on the cam. The advantage of straight cuts is no end thrust, Birchall has no idea.

If you want to go semi straight cuts, get gears from a 36hp motor, they have less angle than a 40hp-1600 gear set, could be hard to find though.

Steve

The advantage of straight cuts is no end thrust, Birchall has no idea.

another LOAD of crap from u as usual

get out to the garage and start working on yr Supper Doooper Project and stop bullshiting as usual

Hi

Your display of your lack of understanding anything mechanical or technical is breath taking. So you don't believe that the valve train tension puts a side load camshaft?

I'm going outside now, arguing with you is like washing a hanky, a waste of time.

Steve

use a Kleenex instead

it may be quicker for you to wipe up the crap

at least i dont wear two pairs of socks, who said anything about fish

vw54 wrote:straight cuts are LOUD and anoying after a very short time and theres absolutly NO advantage

Hmmmm...
My 2 cents - love the sound of straight cut (almost like a supercharger sound).
Technically there are fewer losses in straight cut gears when they mesh, so in theory should free up a horsey or 2. Admittedly, the difference in how much more freely the gears mesh would be near pluck all. Perhaps if you were racing it would be important.

i just googled one on youtube i like the sound of it... it's like having the car in reverse (well cause the reverse is straight cut)
it's really nice but the thing is i don't know how long i will like the sound for
this is a big issue coz when i put it in and a month later i decide that i don't like it it means engine rebuild or new engine
arr i'm soo choosey

what do you use the car for?

transporting myself from point A to point B where AB=C... that wasn't funny
i pretty much just use the car to drive around occasionally drag some of my friends
you know hoon around. and with the carby and exhaust done and that's pretty much all I beat a tr magna you'd think with the 2.6 astron efi would blow u away but it's that heavy
probably too heavy from all the water in the radiator😂
I've got 32,36 weber on there sorta open it up a bit. I've got custom exhaust aswell got it tested 93dB at 3500rpm
so yeah pretty quiet so if i put straight cut in it'll be pretty much all i can hear

also I work at pizza hut and I'm a delivery boy.. in my 72 super bug with shitty ball joints so when i brake the steering wheel shake
it's not a bad job... i like driving the car around
one thing i wonder about beetle is... i never did see one got pulled over by cops..
i never got pulled over even when i was driving without muffler on so all i had was pretty much extractor and it scream so good

I'd be more concerned about putting the money into new ball joints instead if cam gears!
last thing anyone needs is for you to have an accident with the potential of killing yourself and anyone else for that matter.
Be responsible❗

I'll definitely get the ball joints this pay and if i have enough leftover might buy the cam gears
and i do say to myself all the time be responsible... but the thing is.. responsibility comes with a big price tag and it never ends
and my job doesn't pay that much really i got the car for 500 and i already changed the gearbox fixed rust holes
i enjoy doin it... it's pretty much the easiest car ever except putting the rear torsion bar back on ... it's like you can never get it right

sounds kinda wierd to me that the ball joints are causing a shudder under braking.
Are you sure its not brake shudder?

i'm pretty sure it's not the brake because it happens sometimes when i none of my two feet are on the brake

why try and make it sound ballsy when its not? takes alot more than a cam to spice up a 1600

the noise will drive u nuts after a very short period
i almost need ear plugs for my bug after blatting down the motorway, sux when u can barely hear passengers in the rear seat

spend the money on important safety items first
first port of call with any superbug is all the front and rear bushings and balljoints which u obviuosly know already

dont put them in.........you will hate it.

I ve decided to not use the straight cut gears firstly i couldn't find one and that they are the price of alloy x4 and i couldn't find a shop in adelaide that has one...even the alloy helical one is kinda chase to find i called one shop and they told me to call another...

anyway i have this greed for power... this engine i'm building have got a progressive weber, scat cam, ratio rockers, custom exhaust, electronic ignition that's probably all... even though i am not very financially able to finish this engine as fast as i wanted to i was wondering what else could i have on???
like a set of big valve head or sumthin

May as well machine the case and get some bigger pistons and cylinders.
Simon

that could cause some problem tho cause then i have to get the case welded where it usually cracks you know that bit at the back of the flywheel... I'm tempted but i don't think it will be worth it with all the risks... i mean even if i get that section filled up with some alloy there is still some part of the oil gallories that could crack... if i wanted a bigger engine i would use aftermarket crankcase, shafts, pistons n' rods
but that would cost a fortune
i was thinking big valves head they're like 550 complete new and that would cost more than what i've spent on the engine so far well i got second hand cam, weber, block, exhaust, bearings all under 500...
i'm looking for a small easything...
i don't think there is much else i can do... with my small budget anyway

jsheppard64 wrote:that could cause some problem tho cause then i have to get the case welded where it usually cracks you know that bit at the back of the flywheel... I'm tempted but i don't think it will be worth it with all the risks... i mean even if i get that section filled up with some alloy there is still some part of the oil gallories that could crack... if i wanted a bigger engine i would use aftermarket crankcase,

rubbish

maybe... i just wanna keep it 1584cc maybe i could play with the compression ratio

id be careful doing that
remember fuel quality today isnt wat it used to be

if u want to unleash some power take of the 2 main restrictions - carb and exhaust

decent header and pair of kadrons make for a zippy run around if the engines healthy enough

a pair of kadrons... would wouldn't be a lot better than 32 36 would it? i mean compare to 200 i spent for the progressive and maybe 700 for a pair of kadron would the kadron be worth extra 500 dollar??
(keep in mind 500 means a lot to me coz i get like 9 an hour where i work)

2nd hand kaddies are around cheap just keep ur eyes out on here and ebay
i sold a good working set for $250 a few weeks ago there not worth more than $400 2nd hand and if u can sell ur prog on ebay for $200 again ur halfway there

any twin carb set is gonna crap all over a single and ur talking twin 40mm carbs vs a 32/36 that has a really long manifold which doesnt do performance any real favours
a step backwards if theres no manifold heat

the progressives dont really do that much over a stock carb. if ur gonna stay single centermount then to make it worth while better off going a syncronis twin throat like IDF, DCN or dell DRLA with good preheat

well i've got a pair of solex 32-36 pdsit 2 and 3 out of a type 3
would it be as good as 32/36 or worse?

i like my progressive coz i got it jetted just right and it looks cool because i'm not using DFEV i'm using DGAV where the butterfly spins the other way so i had to make extra linkages and i made an air box on the carb that connects to the pod filter.

but twins kadron would definitely be better but running one carb already gave me too much annoyance.. i'm one of those people who just can't live things the way they are

Joel wrote:2nd hand kaddies are around cheap just keep ur eyes out on here and ebay
i sold a good working set for $250 a few weeks ago there not worth more than $400 2nd hand and if u can sell ur prog on ebay for $200 again ur halfway there

any twin carb set is gonna crap all over a single and ur talking twin 40mm carbs vs a 32/36 that has a really long manifold which doesnt do performance any real favours
a step backwards if theres no manifold heat

the progressives dont really do that much over a stock carb. if ur gonna stay single centermount then to make it worth while better off going a syncronis twin throat like IDF, DCN or dell DRLA with good preheat

i have a pair of solex 32-34 pdsit would they be better than single progressive 32/36

I'd go the progressive over the dual PDSIT's, much less hassle (if you can get the tune up right).

I've replaced my ball joints along with sway bar rubbers i put nolothane stuffs in the steering is better but i think i need a steering box and a good wheel alignment... also i changed my front springs i put erm springs out of the back of VS commodore in they're pretty good a bit stiff it's pretty good on a flat road with tiny bumps or pot hole... handles a bit better as well..

and yes i'll go with the helical gear... although straight cut is very tempting... the price isn't 😊

and one more question to you experts... should i go big valves head?? would they be worth the price?? i got quoted $550 for big valves head and $380 for standard opinion please

thank you

Standard heads.

that's what i thought and my budget supports that decision as well..

i bought another progressive manifold because it was like cheap so i grabbed it.. anyway the hole where heater pipe goes wasn't drilled thru... was it meant to be blocked in the middle?? i mean there are holes on both sides just that the hole wasn't drilled thru... should i drill it thru so that the exhaust gas would flow and actually dissipate some heat onto the manifold or should i just leave it?? and see if it would somehow miraculously work

preheat will be fairly useless anyway but better than nothing
they never work like stock once u put headers on u only have to look at the design to see why
its probably a carbon blockage. thats what happens when u feed from 2 ends

if u just want straight cuts for the noise then get some cheap empi ones
generally its play in the gears where most of the noise comes from
quality gears are abit quieter cos they have closer tolerances
ive got scat straight cuts in mine, u can tell there straights but there not offensively loud

but beware cheap ones are cheap for a reason
even good ones can do this

you need to buy westi's turbo setup

Joel wrote:even good ones can do this

I dont think they would be called "good" or "quality" if they do that.

What backlash was set on those two lovely examples I wonder?

bottom were allegedly magnums

i was going to make a bypass tube that doesn't go straight to the flange that connects to the muffler so that exhaust would actually flow is that a good idea? and if i do that i would just drilled the manifold thru... it's a new manifold so it didn't have any carbon build up.. it just wasn't drilled thru

i bought an aluminium cam gear yay
unfortunately mine was a dish type cam gear abd the one i bought is a flat type so the guy said 100 for a new oil pump and i replied "next pay" 🙁 stupid low paying job

Joel wrote:bottom were allegedly magnums

Ok, did they have backlash??

i got NFI
i just grabbed the pics from the same topic we having on thesamba to demonstrate what can happen

yeah thanx for that Joel..............NOT!.........that gear looks just like mine 😢 (without the warpage thank god)

previous magnum model had round holes around the edge and as such more meat to it........

i put the block together. torqued it up and everything
and then i realised i didn't put the cam followers in 😂

dont worry ur not the first bloke to screw a bottom end together only to look over and see a lifter or cam bearing, something small and stupid still sitting on the bench 🤪

Joel wrote:i got NFI
i just grabbed the pics from the same topic we having on thesamba to demonstrate what can happen

My point exactly.

Not having a go at you Joel, but it just pi55es me off to here this is now good or whatever, when there are so many facts missing in such a complicated issue.

No one knows except possibly the guy who broke it, what actually caused the faiure, and/or the specs at assembly... what backlash, end float, valve spring pressure, rocker geometery, cam, spring harmonics, engine rpm............

i was wondering what is the easy way to fix the built in rear camber?? out of superbug IRS i replaced the rubbers that helped a bit .....
and setting the torsion bar was a real pain

point taken mat, i was more trying to make the OP relise they do nothing in a stock engine

but anyway heres what happened to the one in the 2nd pic

"As far as the story goes, i lost a flywheel in the burn out box, and the sudden twist of the crankshaft when the flywheel let go smashed the gear, resulting in some MAJOR damage to EVERYTHING but the case."


its a real PITA job to decamber a IRS
u gotta flip the trailing arms and weld the shock mounts back on the right way
most ppl just live with the camber all it does is wear ur tyres quicker

i guess i'll just live with it then 🙁

hmm i wonder with the rear disc conversion how do u run handbrake? does it have to have separate hydraulic pump?
how much would the conversion cost?

Joel wrote:but anyway heres what happened to the one in the 2nd pic

"As far as the story goes, i lost a flywheel in the burn out box, and the sudden twist of the crankshaft when the flywheel let go smashed the gear, resulting in some MAJOR damage to EVERYTHING but the case."

Cool Joel, that does explain a few things....ahh knowledge.
You dont need to worry now Daimo, just keep the flywheel firmly attached, especially during burnouts😂.

jsheppard64 wrote:i was wondering what is the easy way to fix the built in rear camber?? out of superbug IRS i replaced the rubbers that helped a bit .....
and setting the torsion bar was a real pain

Its actually very easy to adjust............if you know how.

I will PM my number to you to discuss.

Regards
Craig T

let me guess....
something to do with trailing arms??

what's the best thing to use to seal the engine up??? a guy at vw garage told me to use hard setting Loctite engine sealand No 4 and my dad told me to use standard vw compound which is softer. when i sealed the engine up for the first time forgot about the lifters i used loctite No 4.. i don't want my car to make a mark everywhere it goes... altho that's normal with old VW 😂