Restoration Question

Hi. I've got a VW Beetle - 1965 vintage. Had a 1641cc engine+tranny put in. Runs ok. Also had the car lowered in the front a bit. Anti-sway bars, new shocks, new wheels, 12 volt conversion. I'm not too sure what else to proceed with next. Should I repaint the Beetle and then redo the upholestry?

I'm in Doncaster East. Victoria.

I spose the first thing to do would be decide on what direction you want to go in. Style, look etc etc
Many cars are never totally finished, and are really rolling projects, but you must have a goal in sight. The goal might change, but try to have one.
My present goal is to actually get my squareback on the road after taking 4 years to do it!

Paint B4 upholestry otherwise it will get wet n dusty

you can have the seat n door panels redone while it in the paint shop might save some time

Next step is to put discs on the front

You have put a 1641 in and compared to the 1200 that was in there you have probably upped the power to weight ratio by about 50%

why would the brakes require improvement? or do you use the added power of the motor's acceleration to stop the car while braking at the same time? this statement does not make sense. the weight of the car has not changed and you should still be driving at the same speeds so why would this be necessary? i keep hearing about these disc brake coversions but i am certainly not convinced by that argument. besides the increase in power wouldn't be that much anyway. i used to have a 1200 years ago and it went like the clappers and would stop on a penny

DirkHedde wrote:why would the brakes require improvement? or do you use the added power of the motor's acceleration to stop the car while braking at the same time? this statement does not make sense. the weight of the car has not changed and you should still be driving at the same speeds so why would this be necessary? i keep hearing about these disc brake coversions but i am certainly not convinced by that argument. besides the increase in power wouldn't be that much anyway. i used to have a 1200 years ago and it went like the clappers and would stop on a penny

because a more powerful engine does make a difference to stopping ability as they are generally heavier than stock motors thus increasing the weight of the car so more braking force is required. also if drum brakes were so good why are all the new cars fitted discs? i believe it had something to do with the general population not constantly adjusting the drums as required.
but back on topic. id paint next as you can do the upholstery after it. also you need to remove some of the upholstery to do a proper job of painting it.

the switch to discs was more a saftey issue than anything
drums just cant shed heat like discs can

after a bit of heavy braking u get them nice and hot and next thing u get brake fade

Barrys right tho, an engine 1600 or larger is legally sposed to have discs on the front
any inspector who wants to make a prick of himself can ping u on that

its a common sence thing for me tho having owned 3 all drum braked cars b4 its got me stuffed why anyone bar the hardcore purists would drive around in 1 these days

If the vehicle is capable of doing the acceleration and speed, then it should have the brakes that are suitable.

DirkHedde wrote:why would the brakes require improvement? or do you use the added power of the motor's acceleration to stop the car while braking at the same time? this statement does not make sense. the weight of the car has not changed and you should still be driving at the same speeds so why would this be necessary?

Weight isn't the only factor that affects how much braking you want in a car... if you've increased the power output, presumably acceleration has increased... all brakes do is apply DECELERATION... so the faster you can accelerate, if the brakes stay the same they have to be applied for longer (time) before they even overcome the acceleration, let alone begin slowing the car. Time is evil - double the time it takes to stop, you've gone more like 4 times the distance.

So with more power but the same weight, you still need better brakes.

As an example, take a Porsche 944 compared to a 944 Turbo.... the cars have almost EXACTLY the same suspension and aero characteristics, and the Turbo is only something like 30kg heavier. What did Porsche do though - they put MUCH larger brakes on the Turbo... 4 piston Brembo's on each corner, compared to just ATE slider's on the 944.

And for an easily tested example, get yourself a test drive in a new V6 Commodore and then again in the V8 version... they usually have the exact same braking system. The V6 will feel fine while the V8 will feel massively underbraked, even though the weight of the cars is still very close.

Bottom line - you can never have too much braking power. Doubly so if you run better/gripper tyres and suspension than original spec.

Must be some new maths here! 😏 If two vehicles have the same mass and one vehicle has an engine twice the power rating, hence a quicker acceleration rate, provided the brakes and tyres are the same, the braking distance will be the same. It doesn't matter how fast the the vehicle gets to a given speed, the brakes only provide deceleration/stopping power.

Also, we can't generalise on the 1600 bit of "must have disc brakes" even though this post relates to a Bug, all type 3 vehicles have 1600 engines from 1966 (august 1965) and had drum brakes untill around 1968. An inspector in NSW can't knock a car on this. Think about how many vehicles other than VW would be off the road if this was the law.

Do I think disc brakes are the way to go? Bloody oath! Forget about the couple of kilos difference between a 1200 and 1600 engine. One McDonald's eating passenger will give more mass difference than that. It's straight out safety and they do fade regardless of what we think of being a purist and has nothing to do with acceleration rate!!

DH

Right now - I want to make the car presentable. It does need new paint. But I would like to do it properly and not get scammed. Advice please?

Do I need to strip the old paint off.

How much does it generally cost for a good paint job?

Should I replace the rubbers for the windows etc.. while I'm at it?

If you can afford it, best to pull all glass whilst painting and replace the rubbers. Paint price depends on whether 2 pack or acrylic. Be prepared for quite a bit if someone else does the lot for you.

DH

1500S wrote:Also, we can't generalise on the 1600 bit of "must have disc brakes" even though this post relates to a Bug, all type 3 vehicles have 1600 engines from 1966 (august 1965) and had drum brakes untill around 1968. An inspector in NSW can't knock a car on this. Think about how many vehicles other than VW would be off the road if this was the law.

I am happy to be corrected but i have always been told when i had my 1200 and was going to put a 1600 in it that i had to put disc braces on

Was told all 1600s had discs and any mod to a 1600 would require discs (in NSW)

thats how its is but to many engineers/mechanics these days just dont know enough about dak daks to pick up on it

its easy as to whack some 1600 jugs in a 1300 engine and not tell anyone 😉

besides look how many pre 67s and pov pak late models are out there with 1600s and stock brakes

and how many 2.4L in the states with drums

😂

probably nearly as many as spindle mounts with no brakes

gotta love.....or laugh at the yanks some times
anything goes aslong as it can move under its own steam