Pushing more power out of a 1600 dual port! (rice up time!!)

Hey Guys, just picking your brains for simple ideas on things I can do to get a bit more power out of my 73 bug. The 1916 engine is looking way off at the moment, so I'm trying to get a little bit more "normalness" into the Colonel (which is my cars name).


Basic stuff! - Stage 1

New clutch cable, that is the correct length, and clutch return spring.
Set up of pedals (you should see how far my brake pedal goes down 🙁


gear shift bushes
Steering dampener.


Momo (ferrari) steering wheel


Any suggestions for other stuff that will just make my 73 feel more like a car than a poorly driving go-cart, its just feeling a bit off at the moment. I think it may even need new ball joints, the rubber is pretty bad on them.

Stage 2!


Kadrons
Getting these once i get some cash from K-rudd! Im thinking they will give me a fair bit more go, off the line that is, thats what annoys me most about the car right now, the fact that i have the rev it heaps and slip the clutch real slowly. The 34pict just has no responce. A friend of mine has kadrons on his 1776, and dont expect that power, but I do expect that responce. 🙂


Alternator style fuel pump (this is more for my piece of mind, I really dislike that the gen style pump is rubbing on my new alternator. MY mechanic is silly for not advising me that I needed to change it... especially since he did the work)

(buying this from http://www.classicveedub.com.au/ )

Mini Sump
I will be cheatinf and not putting the extension on the oil pickup untill I get an external filter. Otherwise you have to remove the strainer, and you can;t run an engine without any filterage.



Plus magnetic drain plug.
Does anyone use one of these, i think it would work well to pick up metal filings and such. they work well on lsd's so i think the same concet works well on an engine.

(gotta buy this off ebay me thinks!!)

Stage 3!

Swivel foot value adjusters

($50 the set from my mechanic)

Valve Covers
I really love the flat four valve covers cause they have like mini fins on the top side, which would probs cool the heads a tiny wee bit more, and they are taller than the stock tappet covers, more surface area = more heat dispersion. 🙂

($220 from micks, anyone know if I can get them cheaper?? Classic has them, but im not sure how much...)

Stage 4

Since i Got hit by a police car ( It was a D car) at a shopping centre, I have to have a new rear apron/beaver panel (whatever you want to call it) welded in before i change the exhaust.


Damn commodores! They reinforce the front of the police cars, or so I have been told by a lady I picked up from the city one day when I was still an apprentice (she was some head of police something something).

This is the new exhaust that I have to put in there!




I figure they will also want to pull the engine out to do this. The whole car really needs a strip down and repaint, But as a student i just dont have $4000 lying around. One day i hope that it will look a little like this...

I also have a clutch to go into the car if they have to pull out the engine to do the rear apron!


Stage 5.......
is body work, which i won't bore you with plans for here.

Stage 6...
is wheels!! Dragway performance wheels.

hoping to go 14Inch .... possibly 4inch wide up from 6 up the rear.
(sorry to kroozzn63, this was the only picture i could find that i could put in here...)

So tell me what you think, dont bag on the kadrons cause they are going on this motor.. hahah. Give me some suggestions. what works, what doesnt. 🙂

You can buy a electronice ignition system and a decent exhaust these will also fit yr new 1916 when the time comes and give yr present 1600 a little more

Iv got a 009 with compufire.... It works well. Just need an ignition switch because its not always clicking over the starter, the lights come on, but it doesn't crank. The ignition system is working well. Is the exhaust on the no so good side? My mechanic ordered it and raves about them and runs them on lots of cars. I have the empi full merged system and hate it. its bent on the right hand rear exhaust port so, its basically useless when it comes off unless you have it strightened and painted and fit it up to a car. the flange sticks out way too far and burns you if you work on it when its hot. I like the way the new exhaust sits, you cant really see the muffler, only the chrome bit which sticks out. And they dont sound like a truck. the full merged systems with the fatboy do. I may keep the fatboy and have it modified to fit the new extractors.

Have you ever changed a clutch arm spring with the gear box in place??
Good luck

Good idea the steering stuff
Maybe add a short shift kit

Dont waste your money on fancy rocker covers
Put the $$$ towards something that produces HP
They will only leak

Why go J pipes.
Heater boxes wont restrict what you are doing so why get rid of them??

Personally i would keep the other exhaust
REckon you will loose noticeable power with the new one

Swivel feet?
Why? what benefit you going to get in a 1600??

Whatever

have fun

That mini sump looks pretty pointless. Only thing it is going to add is less ground clearance.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

i did a cable and got a mate to push the clutch in and while it was down i tied it off with wire than he released the clutch it leaves the spring a bit loose
are you sure the clutch don't just need adjusting

It has the wrong length clutch cable currently, so the pedal sits higher than it should. And yet the whole pedal assembly needs adjusting.
The mini sump will give me less gound clearance, but when installed properly should be a very good thing when going around corners, deeper pickup means no light coming on.
The exhaust I have on now is a real piece of rubbish and sounds like a truck, i like how the one i have purchased sounds, and i like that it isnt so visable and likely to get me into police issues.
Speaking of short shift kits, does anyone run the scat shifters? are they good? that is what i want to run, i think it would be really helpful with reverse also!!!
Swivel feet are just to see how they work and such... and i just think the flat 4 tappet covers look sick! no real HP gain there.
I dont see any reason to keep the heater boxes, they just get in the way, J-pipes are much easier to work with. I have the old boxes still and could change back to them if i really needed too.
Also, i wont be doing the clutch, so no, i have no idea how hard it is. 🙂

Dont waste your money on fancy rocker covers
Put the $$$ towards something that produces HP
They will only leak

yep must agree with that

The kadrons will give you a much better take off, I found when i had the kadrons put onto my stock 1600 in my old manx it was amazing the difference it made, I could almost dump the clutch on the right angle of the road and pop a front wheel off the ground... Apparently its a 30% power increase just by fitting the carbs, Thats just what i've heard. I aint no expert.

trickysimon wrote:That mini sump looks pretty pointless. Only thing it is going to add is less ground clearance.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I cant personally give an opinion on this sump, but BigRudi swears by them. This is his race car (Click Here) and maybe he can comment on them.

Kevin

i reckon Bizzarre is on the money,sometimes a lot of money and time is spent on stuff that doesn't achieve anything.

Thanks Kevin.
That is a race car though, where ground clearance isn't an issue. Wonder if the positves outweigh the negatives.

the sumps are just good for oil serge so unless u plan on lotsa G force cornering its waste of money

i never get oil serge in mine with a stock sump and most people know what i corner like

best way to get some power from a 1600 is twin carbs, good header and zorst and some 1.4 ratio rockers

that hotdog zorst is same style as im running at the moment
theyre bloody loud but flow real good

Well... since I already have said mini sump, I'm going to use it. I cant see any harm.
Yeah, I really like the sound of the exhaust... mine is already loud and I love it, its just going to be a different tone once i get that one in.
Kadrons are going in first, and taking car of the fuel side of stuff.

With 1.4 rockers, do i need to change anything else??? (like pushrods or anything???) This may be a dumb question but do heads have to be taken off to do rocker assemblys??



Can run those with standard tappet covers though hey...

yes you have to make custom length pushrod with 1.4 or any ratio rockers to get the valve geometry right and also to have adjusting screw the correct length so they dont break all the time and allow oil flow to the rockers

Before you get stuck in to the performance mods what's the engine like?
Is it relatively fresh or has it already done 100,000Ks.

Its definatly not fresh. I know its been rebuilt before, but i have no idea how long ago.

I'd just stick with carbs and exhaust and maybe upgrade ignition at this stage.
That's where you will see the most improvement for your $. Then just enjoy it.

Stanley wrote:I'd just stick with carbs and exhaust and maybe upgrade ignition at this stage.
That's where you will see the most improvement for your $. Then just enjoy it.

👍 Top advise there.

Once its running nicely it will be body work time.
Going for a smooth look. front indicators in the bumpers, rear lights to S-bug lights... 1 piece window kits...... hoodjax

Then wheels time!

hey u can replace the outers of my wheels they are two piece so you can get the steel bits made to measure "and they are still forsale " with the bonus of a scat manifold and weber carb that will give u more punch than a new month ,

Pretty sure i cant afford wheels right now. but they look awesome nonetheless!! Hope you sell them soon, or that you still have them in like 3 years and i buy them. hahah

If thats a thunderbird exhaust you'll have a hole in it within 6 - 12 months anyway. I REALLY dont like the sound of them. By all means use the extractor, but get an exhaust shop to make up a tuck away muffler.

well... one i have a hole in it, I will probably buy a new one. only $75 worth there... a chrome tip can be $40 from supercheap/repco. My mate has one and its been fine for 3 years or more....

Not trying to be rude, sorry if it seemed i was. you may be right, but i like the look of the thunderbird. If it does blow out, I will know that you were right. I like the sound of them, even though they are loud. 🙂

COLONAL MUSTARD, if you are trying to save to build a 1916, why are you spending money on the 1600.

or have i read the post wrong .

Can't afford the 1916, so I'm just trying to make the 1600 reliable. 🙂

Mate, get some second hand 1600 heads and a die grinder. get these instead of the sump, roller adjusters and valve covers. Then you can DIY gas flow your heads. Even with a basic clean up of the ports and some manifold port matching you should get an easy 5bhp. With the twin carbs and exhaust it should be pretty nippy. Get rid of the 009 and fit a vac advance dizzy. This will make throttle response much better, esp at low revs. TBH i hate the 009. Wasn't great in the Ford Cortina and sure ain't any good in a bug but hey many people like them too.🤪

and why does the photo of your bug remind me of the valley?

oh and big bore exhausts that are too big for the engine reduces the back pressure so much that the engine loses power and not gains. just like all the skyline boys and there 6 inch mufflers. may sound cool but increase your fuel consumption and means a ute can take you.😂

psimitar wrote:Mate, get some second hand 1600 heads and a die grinder. get these instead of the sump, roller adjusters and valve covers. Then you can DIY gas flow your heads. Even with a basic clean up of the ports and some manifold port matching you should get an easy 5bhp. With the twin carbs and exhaust it should be pretty nippy. Get rid of the 009 and fit a vac advance dizzy. This will make throttle response much better, esp at low revs. TBH i hate the 009. Wasn't great in the Ford Cortina and sure ain't any good in a bug but hey many people like them too.🤪

and why does the photo of your bug remind me of the valley?

Dunno why it reminds you of the valley..... Its not. Its 17 mile rocks.
Yeah, the 009 seems to work well at the moment, but i will wait till i get the kadrons on there, and i think i will be set. Your proabably right about the exhaust, its pretty bad. It did give HP gain though, but not in a good way, im just hanging out to be able to afford the body work - then im putting on that exhaust which is think will be a good move. I already have the mini sump and will try it and see. 🙂

buy the looks of the exhaust you had it was a merged fatboy style, which performance wise is alot better than the old thunderbird. i used to have the T bird system, nice and loud but not big on performance, as psimitar said to much flow can be bad, but it is a T bird so im sure you'll have no troubles with the 1600. i mostly had it for its tiny size with the little hotdog muffler and they way it tucked up under the body. more room for lowering, and they are cheap so it doesnt matter if you trash it 😁.

avoid bolt on tappet covers, save your cash for that 1916 🙂 and when you build it, put a windage tray in it, then you wont need the funny little deepsump pickup thingy

thanks boozo! The 1916 is a far way off, sadly. Probably going to run it with 40 dells... so thats just a little more that i Have.. hahaha. Cars cost so much money. :S why do we do it!!!

once the stock suspension wear is sorted, i'd be putting my cash towards shocks, swaybars and of course brakes. anyone can go fast in a straight line. you don't need to be able to accelerate fast if you don't need to slow down for the corners in the first place (a close to stock 1600 won't be a trafficlight warrior so save your battles for ones you know can win) .

remember that good brakes can make the difference between life/death. straight/mangled front end. plus you can gain a lot of ground on someone if you use your brakes well (especially if they are good).

🙂 gave up on the twin carbs, just making it nice and smooth now.. 🙂

Just as an update, I finally got the car to stop cutting out, turns out it was the coil. got a second hand on there and its going sweet. stay tuned in the next few days for all the fun stuff thats going to happen before warwick. whooo.

So, you have probs seen my 1776 thread.....

So here is how it is. I'm not building a new engine, just upgrading with a new clutch and some go fast bits. Id love some feedback on anyone that has used some of these products. (the sump,oil pump, breather box - etc)

I have sourced a new clutch kit which will be installed when the engine comes out (for the body work that is being done..) Machine the flywheel.
New gear box mounts. (any reconmendations??)
Install an extended sump - CB performance sump for Classicveedub.
Install a maxi 2 oil pump (has the filter on the front - needed as the strainer will be removed because of the sump)
install thunder bird exhaust (already have this one..)
Install new valve covers - CB performance
install oil temp dipstick and gauge ($210 classic vee dub!)
install Kadrons ( will be purchasing from Rod Penrose in the next few weeks!)

should be some suitable upgrades there 🙂

Hey Jason, I don't know if you were at Warwick last year but i was out there racing my Yellow 1600cc buggy with Kadrons. I ended up blowing it up on the first burnout on Sunday, after about 12 runs on Saturday. When I got home and pulled the heads I found 3 stray valves and 3 damaged pistons. The rest was ok being a stock 1600 case, crank and rods with Engle 100 cam Empi lifters custom chromemoly pushrods, fitted after destroying 4 stock push rods, mainly from the Heavy duty valve springs to get it to rev. Stock rockers and swivel foot adjusters all being previously fitted upon building the engine.(unsure on original price, probably owed me $2000 having built it myself.)

From that I enlisted the help of Leon's Motors and purchased a 1641cc Piston and Barrel kit $400/500 and dropped off my sorry looking heads which he returned with 40mm Stainless Intake valves and 35mm Stainless exuast valves with hardened seats. Mechining was done inside the cumbustion chamber and they were also ported. A fresh set of Heavy springs and I was back in action. $1300/1400

The car was then Dyno'd and the Kadrons were jetted to suit the bigger cappacity. Ended up putting out 70bhp to the wheels!

Don't know if this helps? Just something to ponder if your engine is a bit tired!!!! To build something like this you would have to start from scratch. There is very little point doing some mods and not the others. Saying this the engine will produce more hp simply by bolting a set of Kadrons on and when jetted correcty can be very reliable. All depends on the condition of your motor.

As for the Exuast I have a 4 into 1 Exctractor type with a baja quiet muffler which has good flow with sufficiant back pressure and quite a nice note(not that quiet) however I had a stinger pipe fitted when i over revved it at warwick(stupid loud) As for a bettle I havn't had to deal with that problem yet. Interested to see what you come up with?

Check out my Drag Buggy Project on the drag racing forum!

Cheers Dave!

Cheers dave!. I'm Hoping that I don't bust the 1600 straight up... but my mechanic has a 1641 sitting in his jig in his workshop waiting to go.... I just dont have the $4000 he wants for it, otherwise it would be going in at the same time. listed above is nearly $2000 worth of bolt ons (which no one has suggested I do...) so I guess asides from the kadrons, I could probably just save my cash and go for the better engine. Its always an option (it just depends how much work I get in the next few months). I have learnt so far that to get an old car to the specs you want, it takes a fair bit of cash. Thats alright with me, I dont see myself driving anything else other than air cooled old school, I just love it toooo much 🙂

Im just collectiing things slowly as I go. Probably going to order the Carbs this week, but not get the manifolds or linkage, and just look heaps @ swap meets. 🙂

$4000 for a 1640cc !!🙅...............I have a fully rebuilt Pobjoy base 1916 (hasn't been started yet) that i can sell you for that amount of $$ !!!

^ most people just don't see the point of building a 1641... I can't say i can either when Rod Penrose has long block 1916's for just under $4000.

having said that. i dont have $4000. which is why im just trying to get it reliable, cheaply. (which is why half the fancy stuff that looks cool isnt going to happen.

It will most likely just all go back in, + a breather box and + a fuel pressure reg (on rod's recomendation) and be driven till it dies.

In saying that, brakes are getting pretty bad and need attention before major HP.

you dont need a pressure reg.....

really? he recons they run heaps smoother on 1.5 psi.... I dunno. Its $50 might be worth doing a few experiments and see what it brings out...

either way, the terrible economy I'm getting from the setup now (34pict3 + 009 + way too big exhaust) will be much better with the new setup (kads, 009, better exhaust that actually gets all the waste out the tail pipe.....) So, im just hoping for some smoothness and some reliability (prefer to have all the power when i put the foot down, not this huffing and puffing and splutering rubbish I'm gettting from it now).

But then brakes will be high on the list. Oh how I wish I was given decent hours at work so i could get poor colonel running how he should be 🙁

a cheap and effective way of setting the pressure at a certain level is by grinding the std pumps pushrod down. people in the UK have been doing this for years.
Does require using a pressure gauge so that you can set it properly but may be of use to you.

oh and get away from using the 009. They are crap and bad for your fuel economy. The correct vac/mech advance dizzy that VW fitted is much better and gives much smoother ride especially from low revs.
Vac dizzys can still work with twin carbs too 🙂

well, $300 later... Im probably not changing the disi out..... the issues that im having are because of the exhause being way too large and bad flow for the engine size.

Im told the setup that i will be running will be good... just have to get it in there 🙂 Im also told by most people changing the fuel pressure wont do much. but I will test it out one day


Regarding the oil setup that i mentioned above (the CB maxi pump and extended sump) has anyone run these items at all??? I think they are both a great idea... but sadly due to have a 73, I cant just throw the pump onto a 1915 when i get it.... its a different type. Im thinking of just getting the cover with oil in/out and getting an external cooler with oil filter adapter... thoughts?

Anyone have any brake suggestions while im on the topic...? Im hoping to go rear disc eventually..., and just get the fronts fixed up for the current time. John sherman has larger calipers that he is recomending I use with standard discs and new seals/bearings/pads. proably just need to machine drums and get new shoes for the rear....

ideas are all welcome.

Brakes, just make sure its all good, new seals etc and give it a good bleed and it should be fine.

You keep mentioning that you want a reliable engine..... yet you keep talking about mods........ there is a saying you can three of the below
1. reliable
2. fast
3. cheap

Having been in your posistion, student trying to get a car going etc I know whats it like. I also raced mine, so there was allot more emphasis put on power and performance. All I can say is, it will be a money pit.

I had a 1600, stock.... nice then i started playing with it..... that engine lasted 6 months before it needed a rebuild. Then it became a 1776 with twin 40mm dells... nice street motor but being flogged most weekends it last about 3 years on the track...... then the 1999cc was built, it cost a arm and leg... it built to be fast and reliable (see above, so you can assume the price) and I love it. But i am back to square one. Need to get the rest of the car back up to standard to start back at the track.

I suppose waht i am trying to say is you need to know what you want to do.... how much money you have and what you are willing to live with. And jsut go for things as required....... you cna plan all you want for the future but jsut get you car on the road an enjoy what it has! The best mods I ever did were an exhaust, carbies and get everything well balanced and built properly. If you mod the 1600 and rev it more, flog it more. You will be needing to build that 1776/1916 allot sooner than what you first thought!

Thanks for the advice BiX!!

Right now what is really most important is the brakes.... I'd rather stop than go too fast and not be able to stop.

I guess the pay is going towards brakes for the next few weeks....months (4 hours a week means months..)

any tips on where to get shoes and wheels cylinders for the rear from....???

the most important thing is good insurance the best money you will ever spend

colonel mustard wrote:Thanks for the advice BiX!!

Right now what is really most important is the brakes.... I'd rather stop than go too fast and not be able to stop.

I guess the pay is going towards brakes for the next few weeks....months (4 hours a week means months..)

any tips on where to get shoes and wheels cylinders for the rear from....???

Brakes? Have you got std size rims or aftermarket larger diameter? Wondering as there's a guy selling an upgrade kit on the buy/sell forum. It's a vented disc with big Holden calipers but only goes with aftermarket wheels. Vintage may do a vented kit for yours too. It's a personal thing but if your gonna upgrade the brakes then go vented on the front. I feel safer with vented brakes cos you can hammer them harder before you get brake fade but like I said thats just me. Most folks find the solids to be fine. A bigger caliper on a std disc would definately help increase braking pressure and larger pads would give more grip too.
take a look at these guys for vented kits
Machine7UK

As for your engine dude. I had a 1600tp in my 1303. Std pushes out 50bhp I had twin 34ICT's, bit of home porting to the heads and bugpack 4-1 manifiold and quiet pack.
Gave me just under 70bhp and was enough to annoy the local rice boys. If you want cheap carbs then search on Ebay UK. much more stuff available and for smaller item the shipping ain't much.
As others have said tho, don't rev the nuts off the engine otherwise it won't last long. For a long lasting VW you need a CW crank with everything else balanced too. Possibly using a wasserboxer or ali case as these are stronger but then this is what you'd do when it comes to building a bigger engine. Not much point for a 1600 unless you're going to turbo it 🙂

I've got that.... 🙂 I just like having brakes because lots of other drivers are stupid... very stupid indeed.

With a stock motor a well maintained and set up stock brake setup will be fine.
For new wheel cylynders, micks, or leons etc...
Make sure you have new fluid in the system and its well bled.
Simple upgrade is type 3 rear drums, little wider in the pad area
make sure all the rubber lines are new and not bulging when brakes are one.
I run std pads in mine, even when it went to the track... jsut meant it was for sprints only (up to 3 laps at QR was the max) and needed changing rather ofthen.
Try aI think its Queensland Friction materials or simialr, they will put a new compound on std backing paltes. I have used these on a rally car, and they work fine......

best bet, got a do a skid pan day with the car, and learn to brake properly!!! and also learn car control. It made more difference for me than any perfomace mod i made, most cost effective to!

hey mr mustard man, i wouldnt be worried bout no 1776 when craig said hell sell you a fresh pobjoy rattler base 1916cc. $4000 bargain...you will be a happy camper....

I'd be a very happy camper.... If I had $4000... I'd so be there... If I had $4000 🙁

Jason, you starting to sound like an old woman...if you do not have $$$, don't dream about quick VW...stay with a good stock and enjoy it...talking about power at the time, when you did not sort your brakes and probably steering, suspensions etc. are shot too ...doesn't sound right...