have posted this already in my mebers rides threads but thought it might get answered more quickly here...
i cant get the ignition working..
i wired everything back up and went to turn the the key and...nothing. the lights dont come on or anything and pressing the button does nothing of course.
im sure its wired up correctly. i took note of how it was before i took it out. red wire to generator on upper + terminal and green wire below. green wire connector has only got half a connector on the end though (has been broken so is a bit loose but there is contact).
is it possible that the battery has gone dead while ive had the motor out?
please help
cheers
11CAB ·
Dumb question...... do you have both terminals on the battery?
trickysimon ·
Yes, the battery will go flat just sitting there. How long has the engine been out?
Bizarre ·
you need a multimeter or test lamp at least
is it kicking over??
If it isnt kicking the starter motor over then this is a different problem all together
If you are then you need to see if you are getting juice to the coil
It is highly unlikely that the battery would have gone flat - you should at least get a "click click"
Maybe you havent done it up right??
You DID put it in the right way??
squizy ·
Is there a rotor in your dizzy?
izac ·
11cab - yes both + and - terminals are connected.
trickysimon - its been out for a bout 3 weeks.
Bizzare - the starter isnt kicking over at all, no click click noise. when i turn the key nothing happens at all... yeah feel pretty silly 🤓
izac ·
squizy wrote:Is there a rotor in your dizzy?
yep
colonel mustard ·
so no lights on the dash or anything. hazards?? nothing...?? Even if something was wired wrong, you would have this, so either the battery leads are the wrong way around, or your battery is flat.
Its probably something simple mate! Just check and double check 🙂 I know how you feel. 🙂
If all else fails, call your mate round! 🙂
izac ·
yeah il double check those battery leads but im pretty sure there correct. + goes to engine and - goes to ground right? 🤓
colonel mustard ·
sounds right to me. the red should go to + and black go to -
Have you get any lights... hazards should work always.... if they dont, you got a dead battery
izac ·
il see if the indicators work tomorrow as im at work right now.. will let u know cheers
Craig Torrens ·
just get a piece of wire and touch the + and - on the battery and see if it sparks..............I think your battery is dead.
Is it 6 volts or 12 volts??
my 6 volt cars seem to go flat if i dont drive them for 2 weeks.
izac ·
hey glen
it is a 6 volt battery... it DOES gives a spark when i touch both the + and - so i dont think its dead... but...
i tightened up both connectors on the terminals but still nothing on the ignition.
Jason - no indicator, no headlights nothing.
whats going on?
Bizarre ·
A multi meter across the terminal when you kick it over would be good
You could be getting an internal short when you try to put a heavy load through it and it is dropping to bugger all volts when you try and start it
izac ·
il try and borrow one of a mate from work tonight...
if it ends up that it is dropping to a low voltage does this mean i have to replace the battery? if so where do you get 6v car batteries from?
izac ·
checked to see if there were any fuse blown, but they alll looked alright... and also checked the wire to the starter solenoid that was alright as well..
Joel ·
sounds like you have a bad connection somewhere
even if a battery is very flat it can still normally bring on a pair of 1.2w idiot lights
wheres the regulator on a 6v type3?
check that none of the main B+ wires have come off it
greedy53 ·
there is alone wire in behind the dash that is the major feed to everything so under the bonnet and find i bet it's of how do i know do you have a day or two to hear the sad tale
You really need a test light at minimum as Bizarre has already suggested if you are going to delve into wiring.
To start you off, the power feed to ignition switch goes battery + ->regulator->Light switch->fuse box->ign switch.
Enjoy
Ctefeh
colonel mustard ·
Hey, I can drop you the idiots book tonight if you want.... spark plug gapper too if you want... Did you not want that breather box, cause i can get that this arvo for you if you want it.
izac ·
jason - pm sent
ok am going down stairs to do some investigating with multimeter and wiring diagram in hand. thanks for that ctefeh
il let u know how i go
izac ·
ok problem solved!! 🙄😀
The lead coming from the regulator was just hanging on by a thread so i pushed it back on and.... wolla! starts like a dream!!
now i just have to do some fine tuning on the linkage and move the generator a bit.... there was some smoke coming from it 😏 i think its not quite in position properly.
thanks for your help guys 👍 i will try and post a video of how it goes
colonel mustard ·
hey, send me a message, would you rather me come tomorrow morning and give you a hand, I didnt get the breather he said its not needed, and there are better ways to do it, and he wanted more than i thought. I can come in the morning and see if we can come up with something, or i can just drop some stuff off, and i could help you sat/sun some time.... If you want 🙂 send me a txt.
Joel ·
izac wrote:ok problem solved!! 🙄😀
The lead coming from the regulator was just hanging on by a thread so i pushed it back on and.... wolla! starts like a dream!!
you owe me a beer now 😂
just kidding, love it when its something simple
izac ·
yeah cheers joel i do 😎
well it runs like a cut snake!! it is awesome so responsive!
the only thing is the idle speed is to fast... i have adjusted the idle speed screw right down until the throttle stops dont touch them.. and adjusted the mixture screws which helped a bit but it is still to fast.
when you start it up it has a nice slow idle but it then gets faster... i have a suspicion that it is to do with the tension on the accelerator cable on the linkage.. i have to hold my foot on the pedal when i first start it up so maybe the cable gets stuck in that position and it is idling with the throttle partly open..
matara ·
Did you disturb your dizzy with the engine out. You may have altered the timing and the engine is too far advanced? What idle jet did you end up putting in?
Cheers
Steve
matara ·
Also run it with the throttle cable disconnected just to eliminate any sticky cable or pedal issues.
izac ·
all i did to the dizzy was check the gap... thats all. if it was to far advanced would that explain the speeding up?
cheers
izac ·
idle jet is a 52.
colonel mustard ·
lets do this!
kombivw ·
Just wanted to say I have been following this thread from start as I was looking at all areas to poach from. Ironic that we both get cars going at same time. Mine initially was also running fast but the idle adjustments fixed that. Your very lucky having mustard so close to you.
Bizarre ·
matara wrote:Also run it with the throttle cable disconnected just to eliminate any sticky cable or pedal issues.
start here
In fact you should start tuning your carbs with the linkage disconnected
izac ·
ok we figured out that it is not a sticky linkage.. so now thats eliminted.
i played with the mixture screws a bit more... i think i took them all out of sync so i wound them back down to the bottom and turned them anti clockwise 2 turns each...
i think this could be a bit lean though?
it seemed to run a lot slower but it still does seem to pick up a bit... seemed different every time we started it up
colonel mustard ·
We did some cool stuff on the t3 today. I hope to post up some pic's tomorrow morningish. I took this sweet cat for a run this morning, and I'm over kadrons and onto dells. Totally. Amazing. Seriously, It goes super hard for a 1600. And no offence to Izac - but he did pretty darn good for a non pro tune. A pro could get it amazing - but I'm now sure I could and would run these on a type 1. Justness to really watch the linkage on this kit... Can cause scary sounds if you don't tighten everything.
If think we established that it's mega important to have each barrel tuned the same, obviously - ( that was causing it to run lean). We also established that it's important to put the exhaust back on tightly - ( we got a fair bit of mini backfiring and clamps rattling)
The idle was speeding up and getting faster - I speculated that it may be the linkage? Anyone have any thoughts on that???? It did dissapear however - it had gotten hot by that stage. It will be interesting to hear reports of what it does next time it's cold.
Anyway. Breather wise - I got a nice one thad ready to go in and some good quality braided hose. The pod look filter is just a temp measure, hopefully izac gets the breather box in the next few days and I should be sweet. Photo's in the morning.
hellbugged ·
siezing bearings on the throttle shafts
izac ·
Daimo, I will check this out.. what should i be looking for?
izac ·
would spraying some wd40 on the bearings help maybe?
hellbugged ·
from what i can tell, you're playing with dual dellortos that are running at all sorts of different idle rates?.......
disconect linkage, open and close each carb individually to see if one or the other is not consistently falling back to the idle adjustment screws.......the spring right near those stops can get full off gunk and be sticky/inconsistent.........behind there, are some bearings in the body of the carb that the trottle shafts run through.......try some wd 40 or inox etc........bearings on vboth ends of carbs to clean........
seen em siezed before....
but who knows, could be many thimgs
keep us informed
colonel mustard ·
That is the temp breather... looks lameish... but the box will be good.
Thats where the breather will go..... most likely. Has anyone ever done this on a square before.... any suggestions for not doing it this way???
the man himself tuning those carbs!!!
As I stated last night... Izac did well with this set up, they are tuned pretty darn good, and it goes pretty hard. I like it.
he is the proud owner on a Type 3. 🙂
Hey Izac, that guy on thesamba still has the dells up for sale... do you think he had more than one set>???
colin ·
Get yourself a test light and start tracing.
It,s slow and boring but the only way.
Cheers Col
colonel mustard ·
its running now Col! 🙂
hellbugged ·
colonel mustard wrote:
Thats where the breather will go..... most likely. Has anyone ever done this on a square before.... any suggestions for not doing it this way???
yeah, oil collected will leak out the lid........and it will collect there if you DON"T have a line from the carb tops to the vacumn the crank case!
izac ·
cool thanks for that Daimo will try and work something out..
made an interesting discovery today. I was talking to a grumpy old man (good friend) who has been into Volkswagens since the 60's and he was telling me that the reason its idling fast could be that the chokes havent been dismantled properly and could still be partly operational causing the higher idle speed.
i took off the cover i had put back on the chokes after dismantling the and found that there was still a gold thing that moves up and down inside it...?? anyway it was getting dark so i put the cover back on and went to put the car away...BUT as i was turning it around in the drive way the engine kept cutting out because it was idling so slowly!! i think playing withe choke thing might have disengaged it... even though i only touched one side..
you can see how ive covered the choke in this pic
Daimo i dont think it is a seized bearing because I took off the thottle rods and started it (so each carb was operating separately) and the idle started off at a nice speeed then got faster and i didnt even touch them... 🥲
i will look at it more tomorrow... hopefully i am on to something though👍
colin ·
Keep tinkering mate, you will learn sooooo much.
Cheers Col
colonel mustard ·
I just had a thought about what damino is saying. it will leak.... so maybe making up some brackets (or buying some) is a good idea... so the lid is on top, not the side, then no oil can leak out. and then you have better clearance and you can service the breather without taking everything off. yeah???
izac ·
yeah i was thinking of doing something like this...
that looks good. any other photo's of how they mounted that??? that is going to tappet covers hey.... you could do that. drill them out or buy some bolt ons so you dont kill your originals.
Looks sweet. Have you got the idle speed sorted out???
Also, those air cleaners look a bit shorter than yours hey..... and they have used dome nuts rather than the wingnuts....... that would make the one on the very right on your car easy to undo. maybe a bit extra clearance also.
ok got the idle speed all sorted out! it ended up being the chokes that were the problem... i took the covers right off with the circle thing inside them and now it idles very nicely at about 800 - 900 rpm (just a guess).. the chokes must have been stuck causing more fuel to get passed the butterflys..
however they (the left side especially) make a hiss noise every once in a while at random... when it happens you can see the gold thing in side the choke chamber spin around... im not sure why this is???
Bizarre, I ended up using the 32's as suggested and they work very well thanks!
Jason, I'm gonna make up some brackets to come off the fan housing bolts to the left of the oil breather... im not to keen on running hoses to the tappet covers if i can get away without it...?
I also had a small fuel leak from where the fuel line (going to left carb) comes from the fuel pump. i had to use a bigger hose so i could get it on the carb inlet which is bigger than the fuel pump nozzle... so now im running another inline filter with a smaller line on the pump side as a temporary fix until i figure out what to.... i dont really like having the second filter there...
izac ·
as for carb clearance issues, i am goiing to try and put some rubber spacers under the 5 subframe mounts to try and lift the body up off the engine a bit.
colonel mustard ·
so that fuel line came in handy? and the filter?? What does it look like now.... sounds a bit scary. You can get away with not going into the tappet covers, if you can find a way to breathe into the air filters... Not sure how you will do this, as there is no clearance on the top... so you have to find a spot to do it underneath there. Sounds like you got it running better, nice work man!
izac ·
nah that fuek line is way too big man 😢 but the problem is that the fuel pump fitting pulls out from teh pump and causes a leak (because it is not sealed properly)...
i think i am going to buy a new one... where can i buy these from in Oz? i here a rotary one is best for Dells...
hellbugged ·
izac wrote:as for carb clearance issues, i am goiing to try and put some rubber spacers under the 5 subframe mounts to try and lift the body up off the engine a bit.
🙅
izac ·
no?😊
izac ·
heres some pics of the pipe that keeps pulling out of the fuel pump... i dont think it shoud do this,..
Bizarre ·
Step One
GET THAT FIXED!!
izac ·
pipe pulled out of pump stuck in fuel line
Bizarre ·
Get a new pump
A German one - not Brazillian/Mexican
Better still get an old german one and get it repaired
Yours is the fixable sort (all the srews)
Personally i wouldnt chance sticking that back in your one you have
You have WAY TOO MUCH to loose
colonel mustard ·
dude!!! wow. wow!!! fix that!!!!!!
Surely custom would have a few boxes of old ones......... get them to rebuild one for you.
scary stuff......
Could you use a type 1 alternator pump on there??? I got one from classicveedub for $50 or so, just make sure you have the right size pushrod, and that the plastic block is in good condition.
izac ·
yeah i fixed it for the time being this afternoon... pulled the pipe out and put in the other way and it seemed to be a tighter fit... also took the second filter out and joined the 2 different size line witha fuel T type pipe except just straight...
the pump i have is a original german one...
i was thinking about a rotary pump... as CB reccomends them for use with Dells because they give a constant 3 1/2 psi which dells work best aparently.
what do you think of these?
and where do you buy them from in OZ preferably?
colonel mustard ·
you would need a fuel pump block off....
and most importantly, you would need to be 110% sure you were running a 12volt system before you part out your cash.
also.... try this mob - http://www.tweakit.com.au/shop/index.php
Ring them and ask what they have in that psi range. try and get as close as you can, avoid fuel pressure regs, just another thing that can be wrong.
matara ·
Izac, as I mentioned before, wire all your fuel lines. Just get some stiff wire, and after you have the lines on, wrap under a screw on the carb, to the hose clamp screw. That way if the above happens the pressure won't blow the pipe out and fuel over your engine.
Re getting your existing pipe in, if you knurl up the end of the pipe by putting it in a vice and use a pliers to knurl it up, then put some red loctite around it and it should tap back into where it came out of. You must wire it up again afterwards.
Have had the same thing happen on my pump and this fixed it up nicely.
Cheers
Steve
Bizarre ·
If you go electric make sure you wire it properly
Not jus power - but shut off
You need to make sure power shuts of when the motor stalls/stops and your ignition is still on
Touch wood - but you dont want it pumping petrol if you have had a bingle
You get the idea.
izac ·
matara wrote:Izac, as I mentioned before, wire all your fuel lines. Just get some stiff wire, and after you have the lines on, wrap under a screw on the carb, to the hose clamp screw. That way if the above happens the pressure won't blow the pipe out and fuel over your engine.
Re getting your existing pipe in, if you knurl up the end of the pipe by putting it in a vice and use a pliers to knurl it up, then put some red loctite around it and it should tap back into where it came out of. You must wire it up again afterwards.
Have had the same thing happen on my pump and this fixed it up nicely.
Cheers
Steve
Thanks Steve. I have some red loctite so i might give that a try... but it is ssitting in there pretty tightly at the moment... will probably just pull it back out to make sure though.
Do you guys think doing this will eliminate the need for a new pump?
cheers
colonel mustard ·
I dont think its ever worth taking a risk when it comes to fuel. fuel plus hot = fire
I persoanlly dont understand matara and the wire thing... Check your lines ever oil change, small cracks, replace, not longer soft, replace.
If you want an electric pump go for it.... its easier to stay with the orginal pump. just source one and rebuild it properly. (contact trevor if you need, i know he has some, you just need to know if the type 1 and 3 pumps are the same...)
izac ·
yeah but i cant see why a rotary pump wouldnt be just as simple,,,
Steve just means to wire the fuel line down so it doesnt fly off spurting fuel every where in the case of a misshap - good idea,
Bizarre ·
just make sure you wire it right
What ever it is not worth the risk
Been there
Done that
Not worth it
Joel ·
thats an easy fix with the pump
all u need to do is get a drift and put a few burs all the way around the brass pipe and bash it back in the pump
u can loctite it in for extra safety and as Steve said saftey wire them as well
really u need to get rid of that filter as well and mount it away from the engine
cant really tell from the pics but it looks like its on the pressure side of the pump to which is a no-no
best spot is under the the tank or beside the gearbox
matara ·
Picture is worth a thousand words.....
Steve
trickysimon ·
Now thats a good idea 👍
Joel ·
thanks steve i was trying to find that pic
izac ·
Joel wrote:thats an easy fix with the pump
all u need to do is get a drift and put a few burs all the way around the brass pipe and bash it back in the pump
u can loctite it in for extra safety and as Steve said saftey wire them as well
really u need to get rid of that filter as well and mount it away from the engine
cant really tell from the pics but it looks like its on the pressure side of the pump to which is a no-no
best spot is under the the tank or beside the gearbox
Thanks Joel yeah i will give that a go with the pipe.
in regards to the filter, it is actually on the tank side of the pump and is quite secure (zip tied to the back tin piece)... but i might move it behind that tin piece next the gearbox as you say...
the only problem i have with the pump (after i fix that pipe) is what size fuel line to use on the stretch from the pump out to the left carb... i had bigger pipe one there because of the big Dell fuel in let and had just clamped it to the fuel pump pipe... but when i removed it found that itwas badly damaged coz i had tightend it so tight to make it fit... i have standard 6.5mm every where else...
anybody got any tips for getting small i.d. hose on to big inlets?
izac ·
pulled the pipe out again today and did as suggested with burring and loctite.. seems to be stuck in pretty well.
also ran a new 8mm id fuel line from pump to left carb, had to tighten up hose clamp heaps on fuel pump pipe because of larger i.d. but looks like it should work.
I put the breather box in today but this only temporary again until I figure out if i am going to go to the valve covers or the air cleaner.
Engine is running well and have got carbs running in pretty good syns i think with no fuel leaks. I had some moisture running out the exhaust pipe at first today so made it a bit leaner (not sure if it was fuel or condensation).
The only weird thing I noticed going up the street though, was when I had it in gear but with no throttle it seemed to be moving a bit faster than it should... is this because the idle is too fast?
Next job is to rewire the horn from the dash button to the proper horn ring..
cheers
colonel mustard ·
hate to be the only one posting in your thread....
But the breather box looks really good. I should have sold you mine instead, Im going to go for a different setup. cant wait to start earning money when I get back, Its going to be sweet. I will start a thread when I get back from normanton. You do quality work bro.
cb john ·
colonel mustard wrote:hate to be the only one posting in your thread....
do you really mean it ?
hellbugged ·
izac wrote:I put the breather box in today but this only temporary again until I figure out if i am going to go to the valve covers or the air cleaner.
cheers
have a think about how it was set up with the factory aircleaner and breather hose..........and why!
re-create that system with your new stuff
colonel mustard ·
Well... Daimo, I have been looking at your build up thread, and If this was my car, I would do it in a similar way to how you have. 1 pipe going from each air cleaner, joining at a tee and goiing into the breather, then, 1 pipe going to each of the valve covers, joining at a tee piece, with 1 hose coming through the tin wear into the other side of the breather. Pretty much how I plan to do it when I shove my new intake setup on. 🙂
Im also thinking I will go for an upright breather liike this...
but it just depends what i go for, If i keep the 1600 for a few years yet, I will be going kadrons and just install the breather i have (same as Izac's)
Just need to find some used/cheap bolt on valve covers that I can drill into. 🙂
