just stuffing around setting up my surgetank, lift pump and EFI pump and thought about something
ive got 4 barbs on my surge tank and planned on hooking it up as per diagram below which seems to be the most common way people do it
would the heated return from the fuel rail be better off plumbed into the main tank instead of instead of into the surge tank to prevent the main pump recirculating already heated fuel??
or is there a reason eveyrone plumbs it back into the surge tank?
oh yeah lift pump will be after the filter not b4 it like in the pic
MickH ·
I'd run it back to the tank...
ian.mezz ·
here we go again,🤪🤪
hellbugged ·
Joel.......search thru bajawes posts, he started a thread that heaps of info
gazman ·
Ours is setup like so -
Basically the same as Joels, it holds about 2lt's and never gets hot.
vw54 ·
I would run back into the tank as well
But even better and simpler dont have a surge tank at all..... no need for one
Joel ·
cheers all
you would think after 7 years here i'd know better and search first 😊
Dave i dont corner like a scone gobbler
i already get fuel surge with the vw engine if the tanks abit low under hard cornering
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
Westi did a neat trick on Micks subi bug, he fitted the surge pot in the base of the tank, you can see it in the post that Mick did on #16 17-5-2009 at 10:35 AM, no need for a feed pump or surge tank.
I'm thinking about getting westi to do this on my tank as well. Only this that I need to work out is that with the beam front end cars the tank is in open air, not so on a super so a bit of thought is need as to where the surge pot could fit.
What I will be doing is getting him to do is fill in the LHD side of the fuel tank, there would have to be about 3 - 5 litres extra there.
Steve
Joel ·
cheers Steve
heres me caught in the middle of syncronicity once again 😂
i thought about making an internal surge pot like micks bug but as you know yourself theres sweet bugger all room between the bottom of the superbug and the firewall/bulkhead
ive already got a nice little round surge tank tigged up that i plan on mounting in the wheel well same as Pauls Lbug and just run a lift pump and Bosch EFI pump
vw54 ·
Dave i dont corner like a scone gobbler
Joel u have been stealing lines from yr otehr strut mate heheheheheheeee
your just wasting time n effort and good money
vw54 ·
Opps 4 got to say I carnt seam to find YOURs or his Name on the entrant list to Wakefield
Perhaps u can hold hands in the car park and discuss the pros n cons of Surge tanks 🙄🙄🙄
Oh by the way dump the fuel back into the tank for cooling purposes
1303Steve ·
Well Dave perhaps you will find out that you need a surge tank at Wakefield or that your motor output is too paltry to need one.
I didn't know that there was a "special" class at Wakefield.
Special driver, just read some of his posts
disadvantaged car, K&L and swing axle😂
vw54 ·
well u have fun TALKING about as always
u will STILL be talking about it for years to come
get of the putor and get in the garage n do some work fora change
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
Enough frivolity with the village idiot.
What about dropping the stock Subaru pump into the top of the tank, like Wes did into a surge tank on his Baja.
Steve
1303Steve ·
Joel wrote:heres me caught in the middle of syncronicity once again 😂
This just proves that people who drive strut cars are great thinkers
Mick058 ·
You two are like grumpy old men...i think someone made a bad movie about your 'special' relationship...
vw54 ·
U guys
when u eventually get on the track or street
prob wont happen for several years
those long tall struts will be frozen and maybe skip up from under the body work when u try to corner
Oh thats right you need a brace at the top to hold them in place 😂❓👍😠😀🥲❗🙁🤘😍😏😊🤓😉🙄❓
ian.mezz ·
there are no corners on the dyno so no surge🤪😂🤪
vw54 ·
Ian
yep thats all those Strut bugs are good for bah humbug
Joel ·
who needs to go out for entertainment when you can get it free at home on your own computer 🤪
ive already got the surge tank, lift pump and VL turbo pump
ill hook it up as per my original and gaz's diagram
im gonna swap my fuel tank for the one out of my Sbug
as it has heaps of ports on the top for the emmisions crap my Lbug doesnt have that i can use for charcoal canister hose, surge tank return etc
it also has the blank plug in the very bottom for access to the filter sock (73 on dont have this) that ill screw a 10mm barb into as the main supply to the lift pump
Joel ·
a barb alot like this actually 😂
vw54 ·
Joel
that return hole may not be big enough may be 2 restrictive for the flow
what pressure are you going to run ???
Joel ·
i plan on brazing in a new 8mm barb in place of one of them
but the stock canister line is only 6mm so will use the standard vw fuel line thro the tunnel and into one of the old breather barbs
just running the stock regulator for now...if it aint broke
so pressure will stock subi which is around 45psi at idle from memory
vw54 ·
Joel
While its all apart you should run 2 complete new lines through tunnel in 8mm Staino or High pressure rubber much easier than stufing around with the existing lines
I ran 2 x 8mm rubbers through tunnel
Joel ·
already done 😉
i did have another 6mm line run thro from my old blow thro turbo system but ive just ripped it out as it was 2 small for fuel injection
mac76 ·
instead of running a surge pot why not run a large diameter aluminium fuel line "as in 25mm id" all the way to the rear and run a efi pump in line this will be about 1 ltr in volume and not able to surge around no need for a lift pump and will be cooled by the passing air. light simple effective.
Joel ·
not a bad idea but ive already got a surge tank and lift pump plus i dont beleive in running fuel lines under the car
through the tunnel just as teh good doc intended
Joel ·
i did some running around today in the bug this arvo and noticed just before i came home that the EFI pump (genuine bosch VL turbo) started sounding like it was cavitating abit.
it stopped doing it everytime i went around a right hand corner so i immediately suspected my lift pump had a problem but atleast it got me home.
it didnt actually appear to be running any different, i had to hoof it a couple of time to make some gaps in traffic and it didnt hesitate once
when i got home sure enought the lift pump was glowing in the dark and not running
its not real old and only done about 3000kms feeding the dellorto on the supercharger but is it too small for the job being a 3.5psi jobbie?
should i replace it with something bigger?
its been fine for 180kms up till now
so maybe it was just one of those luck of the draw things
im seriously considering modding my spare fuel tank to take an intank pump just to do away with all this extra hardware
anyone else done that?
cheers
ian.mezz ·
sharpbuilt buggy do a tank that uses the subaru pump set up.
Baja Wes ·
If your running the set-up shown in your first pic, then that's the same as mine. It will run even with a dead lift pump because the fuel will just flow down the lift pumps return line. When this happens the fuel in the surge tank will get hot and start gurgling because it doesn't get recirculated to the main tank. Mine did this, would start bubbling in the surge tank and after about 40min of driving would momentarily cut out here and there.
What lift pump do you have? I have a cheap facet pump from supercheap auto. It stops if it gets tank rust in it, because the magnet that makes it move attracts rust particles and stopped things moving. It never glowed red though. I have a little glass strainer filter before my lift pump to stop this happening again. So far so good.
Joel ·
Hi Wes,
yep same setup as in the first pic, just has a filter before the lift pump not after
ive got the same lift pump just one of those sqaure facet style ones.
by glow in the dark i just meant it was red hot, funny though it didnt blow the fuse although it is a 30amp
i hooked it to the battery charger and it was only pulling 2amps which was what it normally did but no signs of life
one of the first things i checked was the temp of the surge tank and it was warm but not hot, and was bubbling and gurgling away
im just impressed that i was able to get from one side of town to the other in peak hour with no lift pump and only half a tank of fuel
i'm just gonna go grab another pump same style, as its going for an engineers cert on thurs
Baja Wes ·
Fuel starts bubbing at a low temp, it doesn't have to get very hot. Warm is hot enough for fuel to start to have issues.
Glowing red is very weird, lucky it didn't set anything on fire!
The facet pump is a weird pulsating electromagnet of sorts. When mine stopped I pulled it apart. The older square ones can have the inlet and outlets pulled off. From there I think there was a circlip of something and eventually I got the moving middle bit out. I cleaned off the rust scales, put it back together and it was fine. They now have a new model with a moulded plastic body that I don't think can be pulled apart at all.
This is like my pump (cube style);
This is my filter, rebuildable;
new plastic body one that supercheap sells (they call it the facet posi-flo pump);
They both need the filter before hand, (74 micron apparently);
Joel ·
cheers for all the info Wes
it wasnt physically glowing it was just really bloody hot
pulled the covers off this arvo but its fairly sealed up inside
its the same facet cube style one in the first pic
i bought a new one this arvo but a 4.5-6psi one this time and a new metal filter to go in front of it
chucked them in and went for a spin
all was fine, EFI pump was back to sounding like it was
bout 10 mins later though i started getting intermittent misfires
if i really nail it it seems to drop a cylinder and is abit down on power
lift pumps still running fine and its idling happy as larry and revs up fine with no load so im wondering if the EFI pump is down on pressure now after running like it did yesterday
will have a mess around with it tomoro arv
this is my old one thats just died
ian.mezz ·
VL Turbo, camira fuel pump, same thing you may have got a dud.
my rockets been going for about 7,000Ks now.
no surge tank on super or the 70 bug that rose raced around Wakefield park 🤪🙅😂🙅🤪
its just more shit that could go wrong.🙅😂🙅
Joel ·
its a new genuine bosch one, i think ive probably just hurt it by driving for 20 mins with the thing cavitating abit
after all this crap im thinking of just modding my tank to take an intank pump
there was an super tank already set up for one on ebay the other week that only sold for about $7
i missed it cos i was at warwick but ill probably just mod my spare tank in the same manner
ian.mezz ·
now thats a better idea
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
I'm surprised you got any flow through the dead Facet, Ive used them before and was able to turn it off to stop flow as a anti theft device.
Did that tank on Ebay have the swirl pot inside? The factory EFI tanks are available in the states.
Steve
Joel ·
i doubt very much that it would have
if it was out of the bug i think it was then it was a rough as guts engine conversion (ej22) and id be abit suss on the welding
but ill take the idea and try and make a neater job of it
im hoping i could get away with no internal baffles
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
The problem with a super is that there is nowhere to make a deep pocket for the swirl pot under the tank.
Steve
Baja Wes ·
If I make a new tank I would definitely put the swirl tank and pump in the tank.
To pull the facet pump apart you don't pull the body apart, you just take the inlet and outlet fittings. Then you will see the internal moving part and a circlip or something that lets you pull the internals out through the inlet/outlet holes.
Steve, the facet didn't flow when it died. The fuel just flowed down his surge to main tank return line.
ian.mezz ·
I would head to a wrecker's and check out some top mounted in tank fuel pumps, the 2005 Toyota corolla has one with about six screws that hold it in type.
Baja Wes ·
I run a Mazda 626 intank pump in my surge tank.
Joel ·
do most of those intank pumps setups mostly all use the same mounting bracket for the pump itself??
just finding one thats nice and shallow to fit a super tank will be the fun part
alot of mainstreamer intank pumps also have the fuel gauge float attached as well which makes it even harder to find one suitable
altho im sure that can just be cut off
Joel ·
ok well its all good
im thinking my EJ is adapting abit of VW temprament
today all is fine and dandy, its done 3 trips this arvo and not a single hickup
the only thing i did first was connected the check connectors and turned the ignition on so the fuel pumps pulsed just to make sure there was a nice healthy flow from the surge tank back into the main tank which there was
maybe that fixed it who knows
not likely but im guessing maybe an airlock in a fuel line abit somewhere or something stupid
oh i also found something else out when testing driving it today kinda by accident
140km/h + 3rd gear = Rev limiter 😂
boof2332 ·
One day at eastern creek on a track day my fuel system started mucking up....like it was not breathing. I was actuall running 2 x vl pumps....one as the pre pump and one as the main pump.That way I never worried about hot fuel as the surge tank was always pumping huge amounts back to the tank from the overflow return line....anyway after spending half the day in the pits checking everthing...I got about 6 laps with out fuel starve. Shitty.
Turned out to be a faulty pressure regulator on the late model manifold I had just purchased off ebay.