I can see the benefits of having a subaru motor in your bug or bus, but I really feel that its becoming to common place! I think some people are getting to far away from the VW hobby and perhaps should join a subaru club instead, I mean the reason most of us got into the hobby is for what the car is, 'aircooled', and in my opinion watercooling and adding so much more weight to the back of a bug just seems wrong.
If you want performance there is so many reliable VW engine options out there, and you'll spend just as much as you would converting your car over to pump water. Look at Craig Torrens and especially Greg Ward, greg drives his car to all his rounds and then takes out the class win!
I was at the supersprint to, and I did see how quick the Subaru powered cars were but to be honest they weren't that quick nor entertaining, you couldn't hear them and in my opinion that black bug looked like more fun!
Sorry if this annoys the shit out of some people but that my 2 cents and I needed to get it off my chest.
Gringo_54_oval ·
give me webber induction any day😁
PAZZAN ·
ITS ALL ABOUT BANG FOR BUCKS
PAZZAN ·
POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO ....CAR BALANCE ..AIR COOLED IS HARD TO BEAT....👍
sander288 ·
I know that it is hard to argue bang for bucks, but really if you want a performace vehicle, that is completely driveable and reliable, buy a GTI
General_Failure ·
As far as I'm concerned it all comes down to "Your car, Your money". I won't stop someone from doing an all original resto, or dropping a smallblock V8 into a baja bus. One of the best thing about the ACVWs are the openess of design that allow an owner to express their personality and ideas through their vehicle.
I think a lot of people are like me. They love the design and simplicity of the original motors, however would like the reliability and availability of parts that a newer motor allows. I like to drive VWs, and would rather not spend months trying to source some random part when it chooses to have it's scheduled dummy spit.
I am seriously considering an engine swap so I can continue driving my bay. It will never be a show pony or a concours resto, but it is pretty much rust free and has the potential to continue menacing people in a hurry for decades to come, assuming I still have a way to power it.
They don't _need_ to be substituted with a subie motor, but they are still a very nice flat four in the general spirit of the original VW motor. They have good weight distribution and are a good fit.
I want to be able to drive and enjoy my VW, not stare at it in the carport worrying about what will break next.
That's my $0.02
helbus ·
I agree in some part. I personally would not change the engine of our Beetle to any other type. There is enough stoking hot performance gear and knowledge to do a real good setup.
However in our Bay bus, the stock 2.2 Subaru engine was a great way to economically and reliably repower an everyday vehicle. Type 4 engines are much more expensive to do anything to compared to the Beetle's Type 1 engine.
555bug ·
who cares, 25 million bugs out there. Your car, your $$, your decision
why can't people see beyond their own perspective?
Andy ·
I se Honda is bring out a 2L flat 6 in the Goldwing (bike).
Might be a good option also 👍
I love my VeeDubs, and their original motors, but would consider an AC deisel as a replacement power plant if I ever felt the need to change.
GTMac ·
So exactly how many of the super quick bugs did you see actually drive there themselves????? I know of one Suby Bug that drove there, has done plus 100k kms, drives kids to school each day, does the shopping run and ran 1:14s, not bad for a non entertaining car!
So the 6 spins that Paul did in his Suby Bug were less entertaining than the 6 spins that Rod did in his aircooled Bug?
I am assuming that you were a spectator, maybe I should have taken you for a drive in my Suby Fasty as its the most fun I have had and didnt realise I was their to entertain anyone else and if you couldnt hear my car better check the wax.
My next track car is a 2.3 Type 4 L Bug, but I dont expect to do a mild tune on it and get a reliable 250bhp atw for the same $$$.
Werent there only 4 Suby powered cars out of 52 competing? 🤪
1303Steve ·
Hi
Andrew, you beat me to it, each to their own I say, if don't like them, don't look at them or buy every VW to keep for yourself to stop them being molested.
Steve
Jak Rizzo ·
I dropped the kids to school Friday morning, raced in group 1 at Wakefeild on Saturday with the sport sedans, drove to the show on Sunday & picked the kids up from school Monday afternoon (forgot that I left them there all weekend). Thats having your cake & eating it too. Oh , & I only used 1/4 of a tank of petrol on the track.
Entertainment? Seeing GTMac kick the snot out of a V8 mustang lap after lap in his wrx fastback had me grinning like an idiot!
In saying that, I could listen to the sound of Zanello's 2L air cooled motor all day.
Jak
mac76 ·
how much does it cost to build a reliable 250hp aircooled motor maybe rudi should chime in!
rose ·
yeah webbbbbberrr I love the sound😘
having said that I also like the sound of the turbo spooling up and the blow off valve in my other bug🤪🤪
Gringo_54_oval wrote:give me webber induction any day😁
Mick058 ·
yeh, each to their own - i love the sound of webers, but only for so long too. Sounds great when you give it some, but you ears hurt after no too long.
Bang for buck for me and ease of replacement. Though i would really love an original 40hp with pee shotters. I know, it sounds funny, but i love it - was my first car and first engine i could recognise from miles away - love it!! (not as loud as webers too!!)
If every beetle had a 1916 with dual webers the scene would be a little boring - tops on ya to those who build big aircooled engines with turbos etc - but lucky them for having the dosh too!
rose ·
the 62 bug is pretty cool to drive as well with the cricket noise coming out of the pee shooters 😂
It's good just have one of each than you can pick what mood you are in for the day to match the bug you want to drive
The fuel injected vw powered bug has a nice note as well.😂
Mick058 ·
living the dream 😂😂😂
rose wrote:the 62 bug is pretty cool to drive as well with the cricket noise coming out of the pee shooters 😂
It's good just have one of each than you can pick what mood you are in for the day to match the bug you want to drive
The fuel injected vw powered bug has a nice note as well.😂
😂😂😂
polak ·
everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys 😏
GTMac ·
polak wrote:everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys 😏
Its an original style engine, its still a flat four that the Japaense stole and refined to make a beautiful engine from. Cant help it if it has all the extras like fuel inj, turbo, blah blah blah. I thought the challenge for us was all the engineering that we did to get a great package.
Steve Austin didnt complain when they gave him a bionic arm. Thats how I see my Suby Fasty! 😂
polak ·
GTMac wrote:
polak wrote:everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys 😏
Its an original style engine, its still a flat four that the Japaense stole and refined to make a beautiful engine from. Cant help it if it has all the extras like fuel inj, turbo, blah blah blah. I thought the challenge for us was all the engineering that we did to get a great package.
Steve Austin didnt complain when they gave him a bionic arm. Thats how I see my Suby Fasty! 😂
thought there would be someone to make that comment lol.... by original style i meant an air cooled flat 4. i really admire people pushing the envelope and pulling of some amazing engineering work and there are some great cars out there with interesting engine combos, but my personal feeling is that a) subaru motors are getting too common in originally air-cooled vw's and b) its just a shame to mess with the character or the old air cooled cars, the engine makes them what they are and what millions of ppl and many generations originally fell in love with.
each to their own i guess, but i agree with rose.
Mick058 ·
Go for a ride in a suby powered then look in the mirror and see if your smiling. I know you can get that in aircooled too, but again, big power big bucks.
i like the idea of old style with modern parts.
depends what you want it a car - early body swing axle beetle with cable brakes??? Each has its advantage and disadvantage - cruiser or speed?
If i had a splitty it would definitely feel like a cruiser - but with a beetle, i like the under dog approach - laugh at it until you see how fast it is 😂😂 Even better is the look on someones face when you tell them you put an Sti engine in a 58 beetle 😂
polak wrote:
GTMac wrote:
polak wrote:everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys 😏
Its an original style engine, its still a flat four that the Japaense stole and refined to make a beautiful engine from. Cant help it if it has all the extras like fuel inj, turbo, blah blah blah. I thought the challenge for us was all the engineering that we did to get a great package.
Steve Austin didnt complain when they gave him a bionic arm. Thats how I see my Suby Fasty! 😂
thought there would be someone to make that comment lol.... by original style i meant an air cooled flat 4. i really admire people pushing the envelope and pulling of some amazing engineering work and there are some great cars out there with interesting engine combos, but my personal feeling is that a) subaru motors are getting too common in originally air-cooled vw's and b) its just a shame to mess with the character or the old air cooled cars, the engine makes them what they are and what millions of ppl and many generations originally fell in love with.
each to their own i guess, but i agree with rose.
😂😂😂😂
polak ·
again each to their own, but i think there is an even better reaction from ppl when u blow away an xr8 and then at the next lights u let him know its an aircooled 4 cylinder :P
Mick058 wrote:Go for a ride in a suby powered then look in the mirror and see if your smiling. I know you can get that in aircooled too, but again, big power big bucks.
i like the idea of old style with modern parts.
depends what you want it a car - early body swing axle beetle with cable brakes??? Each has its advantage and disadvantage - cruiser or speed?
If i had a splitty it would definitely feel like a cruiser - but with a beetle, i like the under dog approach - laugh at it until you see how fast it is 😂😂 Even better is the look on someones face when you tell them you put an Sti engine in a 58 beetle 😂
polak wrote:
GTMac wrote:
polak wrote:everybody here has good points, but for me personally its cheating. anyone can throw a more powerful and more modern engine into a car to make it go fast. the challenge is in building up and hotrodding the original engine, or atleast the original style of engine and making it fast and reliable.
for me there is no better sound than a hi-comp, lumpy and angry aircooled vw engine with webbers roaring at full noise!!
i say keep the heart and soul in the ol' volkswagens and leave the subaru engines to the doof doof boys 😏
Its an original style engine, its still a flat four that the Japaense stole and refined to make a beautiful engine from. Cant help it if it has all the extras like fuel inj, turbo, blah blah blah. I thought the challenge for us was all the engineering that we did to get a great package.
Steve Austin didnt complain when they gave him a bionic arm. Thats how I see my Suby Fasty! 😂
thought there would be someone to make that comment lol.... by original style i meant an air cooled flat 4. i really admire people pushing the envelope and pulling of some amazing engineering work and there are some great cars out there with interesting engine combos, but my personal feeling is that a) subaru motors are getting too common in originally air-cooled vw's and b) its just a shame to mess with the character or the old air cooled cars, the engine makes them what they are and what millions of ppl and many generations originally fell in love with.
each to their own i guess, but i agree with rose.
😂😂😂😂
Mick058 ·
Agreed 😎 i just can't afford it. One day
polak wrote:again each to their own, but i think there is an even better reaction from ppl when u blow away an xr8 and then at the next lights u let him know its an aircooled 4 cylinder :P
RISKYBUG ·
it looks like you opened a can of worms mate 🙂
i can see both points but hey my car my choice
1303Steve ·
Hi
OK, fit a Subi engine in a bug, say a EJ20T with about 200 RWHP, every now and again change oil, coolant and plugs, every 100,000ks fit a timing belt and drive its tits off.
A 200 RWHP aircooled bug, lots of maintenance and rebuilds $+$
As I said before, if you don't like them ignore them, we're the one in front.
Steve
polak ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi
OK, fit a Subi engine in a bug, say a EJ20T with about 200 RWHP, every now and again change oil, coolant and plugs, every 100,000ks fit a timing belt and drive its tits off.
A 200 RWHP aircooled bug, lots of maintenance and rebuilds $+$
As I said before, if you don't like them ignore them, we're the one in front.
Steve
hehehe, funny to see how defensive ppl get on here, i thought this was just general chit chat where ppl express their opinions on different things, noone said anything about not liking subi engines or that they were in any way bad, and ill agree with you that at high hp figures, they produce more relaible HP but if you want to start getting technical if u were running a 200hp subi engine in a beetle, then you would only need a 150hp aircooled vw engine to keep up as it doesnt have to carry all the extra weight. in which case, if they were both 200hp, you would be the one looking to see who is in front :P
Craig Torrens ·
but you dont need 200hp atw....
subie is the best option if you want to do a conversion.................but ask the people who have to pay for someone to do the conversion what it cost them, and i think you will find that a 110-120hp aircooled motor will cost far less to do.
Polak, you dont need anywhere near 150hp to keep up with a subie car on the track.............and i think you will find that a high performance vw powered beetle would be quicker through winding road driving as well.
the subie powered at straight line work should blow the beetle away (and this should be evident at Warwick if the subie powered vehicles go)..............but then looking at the video from Wakefield, with the cars going down the main straight this didn't really seem the case?
I would still like a subie powered vw in the garage.................but then the ford does a better job caring my kid around 😂
MrSmith ·
Craig Torrens wrote:but you dont need 200hp atw....
When a 40HP 1200 motor will still exceed the speed limit and get you a ticket.
Each to their own, as they say different strokes for different blokes.
I like looking at all different cars which are standard modified or completely custom it shows the creativity and personality of the owner,
STIDUB ·
should an wrx bug be classed as a retrotech thing (look in street machine mag) same as say an LS1 in F* H* E* etc type holdens, classic looks with modern comforts / reliability, best of both worlds is ultimately what it comes down to really, it may be cheating but at the end of the day when your minister of finance/bank manager etc says you only have x amount of $$$ would you spend the time & $$$ on a go fast aircooled that will require near constant maintainence & last a few yrs before total rebuild because its so overly stressed its likely to go bang, or spend it on a subie or similar then have an engine that easily pumps out the same power & only needs basics like steve said? theres only a few benefits of staying aircooled in my eyes, you can get away with pure engine work, no mod plates or anything like that, and it looks original/can be returned to stock, and a go fast aircooled could be bought peice by peice therefore seemingly cost less, if you dont care about those things & just want the best you can get for the dollar... what would you do?
personally i can appreciate both ways of making a vw quick, but then again i like just about anything someone has put effort into doing it nicely 🙂
1303Steve ·
Hi
OK so you don't need 200RWHP.
What does 1916 or similar cost to build, say something with about 100kW or 135 hp at the flywheel? What sort of regular maintenance would be needed and how long would the motor last before needing a rebuild?
Craig, looking at the results Jaks Subi daily driver did pretty well considering its a daily driver.
I'm going outside now to work on my air cooled bug, so that when its finished I can get my subi bug going.
Steve
polak ·
Craig Torrens wrote:but you dont need 200hp atw....
subie is the best option if you want to do a conversion.................but ask the people who have to pay for someone to do the conversion what it cost them, and i think you will find that a 110-120hp aircooled motor will cost far less to do.
Polak, you dont need anywhere near 150hp to keep up with a subie car on the track.............and i think you will find that a high performance vw powered beetle would be quicker through winding road driving as well.
the subie powered at straight line work should blow the beetle away (and this should be evident at Warwick if the subie powered vehicles go)..............but then looking at the video from Wakefield, with the cars going down the main straight this didn't really seem the case?
I would still like a subie powered vw in the garage.................but then the ford does a better job caring my kid around 😂
pretty much what i was getting at, lighter setup so less power is needed, but i was over compensating :P i like both style of cars and again there are pro's and con's of both setups. i guess this topic could be argued forever. for me its the choice to stick with the air cooled and see how far i can go with it. i say stick to your style and do what makes you happy coz due to that we have such a large variety of cool cars in this country that we can all appreciate.
Baja Wes ·
Yeah, too many Suby conversions, that's why I put a Mazda V6 in mine. It sounds way better now than it did with twin 44IDF webers on the 1916. It also goes faster, drives better, has digital climate control and cost less than a modified VW engine.
I am an Engineer, I like engineering. I find stock VW's boring. After going to shows for 15 years the stock cars all look the same. I like the modified cars, I like to see what people have done. It can have a VW motor like Troy's crazy turbo type 3, as long as it's got something different and worth looking at. And no-one can say watching Aaron's ~500HP 20B rotary powered kombi wheelstanding at the drags is boring.
rose ·
Yeah you get out in that shed. Does the shed have a heater you would need it today.
Hey your subie engine will be prehistoric by the time you get your car going lol😂😂
seen as mr birchall isn't around I though I'd slip that one in 😂😂
1303Steve wrote:I'm going outside now to work on my air cooled bug, so that when its finished I can get my subi bug going.
Steve
polak ·
rose wrote:Yeah you get out in that shed. Does the shed have a heater you would need it today.
Hey your subie engine will be prehistoric by the time you get your car going lol😂😂
seen as mr birchall isn't around I though I'd slip that one in 😂😂
1303Steve wrote:I'm going outside now to work on my air cooled bug, so that when its finished I can get my subi bug going.
Steve
mr burchill is busy putting removable rear apron back on 😂
1303 ·
sander288 wrote:I can see the benefits of having a subaru motor in your bug or bus, but I really feel that its becoming to common place! I think some people are getting to far away from the VW hobby and perhaps should join a subaru club instead, I mean the reason most of us got into the hobby is for what the car is, 'aircooled', and in my opinion watercooling and adding so much more weight to the back of a bug just seems wrong.
If you want performance there is so many reliable VW engine options out there, and you'll spend just as much as you would converting your car over to pump water. Look at Craig Torrens and especially Greg Ward, greg drives his car to all his rounds and then takes out the class win!
I was at the supersprint to, and I did see how quick the Subaru powered cars were but to be honest they weren't that quick nor entertaining, you couldn't hear them and in my opinion that black bug looked like more fun!
Sorry if this annoys the shit out of some people but that my 2 cents and I needed to get it off my chest.
Glad you feel better that it is off your chest.
I am with Steve though, just dont look at them.....plain & simple.
now all I need to do is find a subaru car club...............
NuZo ·
i understand both view points.
TBH it doesnt bother me either way, i wouldnt mind owning one of both! that would be sick!!
i can see the reliability of a modern engine, and i can understand the reason for staying classic and keeping it air cooled.
Their both still beautiful!
alien8 ·
Id love and electric engine in my Beetle and if I had the dollars I would do it. Air cooled electric.
Does it make it any less of a Vw? Me thinks not.
2c.
RISKYBUG ·
fight fight fight
i wanna see a fight
come on aircooled they are calling you slow
hey subi boy's (and girls 🙂 ) they are saying your crap 😀
Yogie ·
I am wrestling with this choice as we speak. I want to get more power in our ghia when it is back on the road after restoration but not sure which.
I love the look of the subi engine in this picture but the ej22 is only about 140hp and I figure it will cost me about 12k with all the engineering. It will be quiet and reliable and all the other things new cars are.
On the other hand I can spend about 15k and get a reliable type 4 putting out about 175 hp without having to do any plumbing and will have less weight as well. The downside is can I live with the carby noise all the time and even though it will be reliable, will it be as reliable with the type 4?
At this point I think I will be keeping it air cooled but I may yet change my mind so I can see both sides but in the end. I think it is what you want as the owner that counts.
Yogie
bajachris88 ·
yea i agree... to many subarus...
need more toyotas :P👍
hahahah
but are u serious about ej22 only being 140hp? Thats suprising if so. so much work for power that still isn't all that extraordinary... well, i spose its power to weight where it counts though.
Mind you, rather than 2.2ltr, car manufacturers have still achieved 200hp in a 2ltr N/a, and even 185hp in 1.8ltr n/a.
Mind you again, 90's tech motors are coming to almost 20 yrs old... 2 decades of development has gone a long way.
1303Steve ·
rose wrote:Hey your subie engine will be prehistoric by the time you get your car going lol😂😂
seen as mr birchall isn't around I though I'd slip that one in 😂😂
Thanks Rose I needed that, well soon I will have Subaru people complaining abut using a vintage Subaru motor in a bug
Yogie ·
bajachris88 wrote:but are u serious about ej22 only being 140hp? Thats suprising if so. so much work for power that still isn't all that extraordinary... well, i spose its power to weight where it counts though.
That is from memory but it won't be out by much. The turbos get MUCH more but I don't want a turbo. Still 140hp in a car that started with 50-60hp is a big improvement in performance.
I just think for the few k extra it is worth it for the extra horsepower and no pipes having to be run from front to back. It is just the unknown with the carby noise that is stopping me from committing to the type 4. I am going to see if there is someone going to the gold coast show next month that has twin 44s or something that I can hear running to get an idea of how loud they are.
Yogie
rose ·
I'll take the oval out for a drive and record the lovely sound for you 😂😂
Yogie wrote:I just think for the few k extra it is worth it for the extra horsepower and no pipes having to be run from front to back. It is just the unknown with the carby noise that is stopping me from committing to the type 4. I am going to see if there is someone going to the gold coast show next month that has twin 44s or something that I can hear running to get an idea of how loud they are.
Yogie
Joel ·
Yogie, there are ways to combat induction roar
a simple air box can pretty much completly eliminate it
they dont look as sexy as pair of standard weber filters but they do a better job filtering and keep the noise down
klubfest being just over a fortnight away im not sure if all the electrical for my conversion will be finished so i may be there with twin weber induction roar following behind if you want to see how loud or quiet 40s are
ive been staying out of this topic cos as i said in my post i deleted last night its just flogging a dead horse
each to there own but what pisses me off mainly on the samba is these douche bag purists who wanna start a shit fight and voice there total dislike , like the car is no longer a VW anymore
i wasnt actively looking to convert my bug, just an engine i was very happy with came up at the right price
my main reasons for the conversion were
low maintaince - change the oil and filters and thats it
compare that to all the crap a vw needs frequently
easy and cheap replacement if it dies another engine is $500 away not $4k plus down the drain like a vw engine of similar power
i wanted to get away from carbs and go EFI
off the shelf kits to convert a type1 cost way more than the subaru conversion is gonna owe me and even if i built one my self still looking at $1.5k plus
and all the other benefits liek an engine far smoother than a vw can ever be with that much power, twin cams and 16valves, self diagnostic, economy a vw will never achieve and life span
cant really speak for the turbo motors but EJ22 easilly make 300,000kms with no internal work
vws wont make half of that without atleast a headjob
cjbolt051 ·
the only opinion that really counts is that of the owner/user.. And they will choose to suit their own needs ..HP,noise,economy,racing,cruising etc.. and if YOU like your choice nobody elses opinion matters..we all get together to see what differant things are being done to motors and bodys etc and sometimes you like something that has been done to a vw other times you wont appreciate it.. imagine how boring it would be if EVERYONE was the same..i personally had a great time at both the supersprint (in my 1192 aircooled vee) & the show looking at all the dubs on show..
reub ·
🙂 - I've one of each and am happy with both....
Each to their own....
bajachris88 ·
On this topic, weighing up the benefits and what not... i always been curious,
If you run your radiator in the front, with lines in the back, how many ltrs of water must you fill your entire cooling system? is it huge with the length?
helbus ·
reub-revhead wrote:🙂 - I've one of each and am happy with both....
Each to their own....
What he said ^^^^^^
Joel ·
Chris most bug setups with rad up front take around 15L
stock subi is around 9L mark depends on the size of the coolant lines you use
the added benefit is with metal lines you get free increased cooling which means rad doesnt need to be so big
trickysimon ·
Doesn't help warmup times though 😉
Joel ·
make FA difference
thats what thermostat is for
Jak Rizzo ·
trickysimon wrote:Doesn't help warmup times though 😉
warm up is the same, if u know what u are doing
Jak
polak ·
Jak Rizzo wrote:
trickysimon wrote:Doesn't help warmup times though 😉
warm up is the same, if u know what u are doing
Jak
if u select the right theromstat, it will keep the cooling system closed until your engine reaches the correct operating temp.
GTMac ·
Polak, this is a great thread for you as a newby, look how many posts your getting in! 😘
I still cant agree with the knockers of shit load of power available on tap with a Suby, again and again and again reliability!
Craig yes 130hp-150hp aircooled Bugs were quicker than my 250hp Suby Fasty..........buts lets be honest, I cant drive for shit, have only driven around that track 19 times and was able to get 1:18 (ohh and talking about main straight speed, you obviously didnt see me). Either give me more practice or someone that can drive and I will bet that Suby powered Fasty is capable of those quick times.
Might also add that of the 1 Suby Fasty and 2 Suby Bugs, they were fully trim decked out, stereos etc etc, daily drivers, not near stripped clean like many of the quick aircooled Bugs. So who is cheating now with the power to weight ratios.
polak ·
GTMac wrote:Polak, this is a great thread for you as a newby, look how many posts your getting in! 😘
I still cant agree with the knockers of shit load of power available on tap with a Suby, again and again and again reliability!
Craig yes 130hp-150hp aircooled Bugs were quicker than my 250hp Suby Fasty..........buts lets be honest, I cant drive for shit, have only driven around that track 19 times and was able to get 1:18 (ohh and talking about main straight speed, you obviously didnt see me). Either give me more practice or someone that can drive and I will bet that Suby powered Fasty is capable of those quick times.
Might also add that of the 1 Suby Fasty and 2 Suby Bugs, they were fully trim decked out, stereos etc etc, daily drivers, not near stripped clean like many of the quick aircooled Bugs. So who is cheating now with the power to weight ratios.
hey GTmac,
love your fasty, i was checkin it out the other day at the track, atleast i think it was yours :P and whats with the kiss? bit early to be drinking hahahaha jokes. i say each to their own, i love all cars, esp ones with rediculous motors u dont expect. i got bitten by the bug, pun intended 😂, and love the simplicity of the air cooled motor. best thing is seeing people's faces just after u munched their new commodore and when u tell them your car still runs an aircooled vw engine 🤪 after i finish this project, im thinking of looking into some sort of an engine swap into a bus or something, but not sure which way to go, i guess ill see what ideas ill have at the time, still plenty to go on the current bug.
adam
1303Steve ·
Hi GTMac
Your car looked very fast down the straight, I think it was one of the fastest by sight. Did you happen to see the speedo or tacho?
Steve
amazeer ·
Its not just the VW's infected with this dilemma. I've known the Bell's and their minis for 15 years. They used to have tricked up BMC engines that went pretty damn hard. But they were forever being rebuilt. Now with the Honda VTEC, it gets is a fuel top up and the occasional oil change. Havent won any friends in traditional mini circles but I dont think thats an issue for them.
I had a hot VW way back when there werent any hot subaru's. A hot subaru was a brumby on fire. It used to give me the greatest of all satisfaction to hear the crowds and race losers talking about the "porsche" engine in my kombi. I guess they were partially correct, as a version of it was fitted to a 914. I dont think I would have got the same enjoyment had it have been subaru/mazda/leyland/toyota/etc powered.
I wont have this dilema in my next race car though. I'll build a sister car to Bobs mini. That way I can piss the VW people off for being a traitor, piss the mini people off for doing a bastard car, and piss the honda people off for taking one of their engines
Jak Rizzo ·
amazeer wrote:I wont have this dilema in my next race car though. I'll build a sister car to Bobs mini. That way I can piss the VW people off for being a traitor, piss the mini people off for doing a bastard car, and piss the honda people off for taking one of their engines
LMFAO!
They won't be pissed off to your face Chris, just on a forum.........
Jak
GTMac ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi GTMac
Your car looked very fast down the straight, I think it was one of the fastest by sight. Did you happen to see the speedo or tacho?
Steve
I stopped looking at 180km/h cause turn 1 was coming up too fast 😂
VWCOOL ·
GTMac wrote:
1303Steve wrote:Hi GTMac
Your car looked very fast down the straight, I think it was one of the fastest by sight. Did you happen to see the speedo or tacho?
Steve
I stopped looking at 180km/h cause turn 1 was coming up too fast 😂
aww, come on mate - you have good brakes!
polak ·
VWCOOL wrote:
GTMac wrote:
1303Steve wrote:Hi GTMac
Your car looked very fast down the straight, I think it was one of the fastest by sight. Did you happen to see the speedo or tacho?
Steve
I stopped looking at 180km/h cause turn 1 was coming up too fast 😂
aww, come on mate - you have good brakes!
atleast u can see what speed ur getting to lol...... mine winds off the clock at 90MPH and then bounces the needle while the revs keep rising 😂
hahaha dont worry simon, time will come... one thing at a time and the car will come together nicely.... its taken me almost 4 years and its still far from finished, doesnt help that im trying to keep the car driving while im doing all the mods and repairs....
took me a long time to get there, and twice as long for the oel temp to come down so the oil light would go out...
hahahaha, i used to have the same issue, funniest thing now is that i struggle to even get to operating temp.... i can drive 50km and it only gets to about 60-ish C.... i think i may have overdone my oil system..... with an oversized oil cooler, huge external oil cooler, external billet filter, deap sump kit and about 3.5m of braided line, i now have bang on 5ltr of oil capacity... haahahaha
Phil74Camper ·
I'm a traditionalist, and a VW enthusiast above all else, as anyone who knows me will see. However, I can see what people are trying to do by fitting Subarus, and while I wouldn't do it, I agree with the idea that it's your car and you can do what you like to it. They do sound great, admittedly, which rotaries (oops, wankels) do not.
I wouldn't fit a Subaru to an air-cooled Kombi (I would - and have - spent large $$ on Type 4 VW motors instead). But I don't mind the idea of putting one in a watercooled T3 Kombi. Perhaps because the VW-built watercooled infrastructure is already in place, it feels less blasphemous - I dunno. I would put a Corvair engine in my Kombi next week if they were readily available.
I don't get putting Subarus into Beetles. You also have to add/update/replace the watercooling gear, gearbox, suspension, brakes, heater and electricals. But you still won't have a useful boot, auto trans for traffic, ABS, airbags, stability control, power windows, heated side mirrors, cruise control, central locking and child-proof doors that a second-hand Golf GTI has. Or, in all liklihood, will you be as fast.
Joel ·
i can see the point your getting at Phil
as much as id love an EJ20T in my bug i settled on an EJ22 cos its exempt from most of the cons you just listed
i planned on just using the stock liberty rad but i think ive found something better
in a superbeetle rads can be fitted without taking much room in the boot
im installing mine same as rich's which still leaves room for the spare in the stock location and more room than a standard bug has normally anyway 😂
it also fitted straight into the beetle engine bay with no cutting needed
you can even get away with leaving the valance on but it makes life easier if its just unstitched
it works very happily with the stock Lbug box and wont break it anymore than a type 1 would
all the suspension and brakes could be left stock
that said tho i run rear discs, custom struts, strut brace etc altho not really needed more my piece of mind
ABS is overrated and out of 16 cars ive owned only two were auto and i plan on never owning another well not untill i get to the age were it seems to be compulsary 🤪
and the other toys i have most of them in the bug already like power windows, remote central locking and A/C is going in as a part of the subi conversion
sander288 ·
on the theme of conversions how much trouble is it getting an engineers certificate for the conversion?
Joel ·
depends on the engineer but as long as you dont do any short cuts, zorst isnt to loud, rad and lines are safely installed and all the emiissions crap is left in place its not to hard
the bloke whos doing mine has done work for me before and i just hit him up b4 i started to find out a few of the requiremnts, all fairly straight forward
polak ·
i guess 5 main issues that they will look at is 1) BRAKES 2)CHASSIS 3)EMISSIONS 4)POWER TO WEIGHT AND 5)WORK/FITMENT QUALITY
1303Steve ·
Hi
They go on factory weight multiplication for power to weight, NA 3 x factory weight, boosted 2.5 x factory weight.
In Joels case 890 x 3 = 2670cc is allowable.
Someone said in an earlier post how having all that extra weight in back will make the car ill handling, people with front engined cars have been saying that for years about rear engined cars, its all in the setup.
Steve
Craig S ·
Hi,
So for my L bug then, if I want to supercharge it I can't go larger than 2225cc?
Craig
helbus ·
Engineers certification for an EJ22 in a bus is easy if it is a later bay with the bigger brake booster. Stock engine with emissions stock, computer stock. Done. Nothing else to do.
Joel ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi
They go on factory weight multiplication for power to weight, NA 3 x factory weight, boosted 2.5 x factory weight.
In Joels case 890 x 3 = 2670cc is allowable.
Someone said in an earlier post how having all that extra weight in back will make the car ill handling, people with front engined cars have been saying that for years about rear engined cars, its all in the setup.
Steve
bugger i shoulda gone a quad cam EJ25 🤪
Gwendolyns Master wrote:Hi,
So for my L bug then, if I want to supercharge it I can't go larger than 2225cc?
Craig
damn Craig you got a pilots licence? 😂
Craig S ·
No pilot's licence, but I do have all the points on my drivers licence at this point in time.
My grandmother always used to tell me:
"If something is worth doing, then it's worth doing properly"
I don't know whether she was talking about aircooled engines though 🙅
I just need to save quite a few pennies.
Craig
squizy ·
Hot Rodders and Kustomisers have been grinding metal, chopping, channeling, lowering, painting and performing engine swaps between genres for years. This is nothing new. There's no need for dubbers to get precious about it, as it's not the first time, nor will it be the last time that someone has swapped the type of motor they use. That's just part and parcel of the hobby that we're all in. Whether you like it or not, it's about respecting the craftsmanship, and looking back to where it's all come from over the years. If it wasn't for people wanting to do things a bit different, it would be pretty boring out there.
1303Steve ·
Hi
This whole discussion shows the diversity of our hobby.
What right does anyone have have to say what another person can do to their own car, NONE, get over it. They would have the introduction VW mods police sanctioned.
Steve
PS I did some pretty radical things to my old yellow bug, fitting a water cooled motor etc, when I sold it I converted it back to and air cooled car, I still have the pleasure of seeing it drive by every now and then, still looks great.
sander288 ·
Good on you steve, it's true this is really a diverse hobby! I actually really enjoyed reading everyone's comments, and it turned out how I hoped it would by being a good discussion and not a mud slinging fight! as long as VW's are kept on the road i'm for it really...
hellbugged ·
GTMac wrote:I still cant agree with the knockers of shit load of power available on tap with a Suby, again and again and again reliability!
Craig yes 130hp-150hp aircooled Bugs were quicker than my 250hp Suby Fasty..........buts lets be honest, I cant drive for shit, have only driven around that track 19 times and was able to get 1:18 (ohh and talking about main straight speed, you obviously didnt see me). Either give me more practice or someone that can drive and I will bet that Suby powered Fasty is capable of those quick times.
Might also add that of the 1 Suby Fasty and 2 Suby Bugs, they were fully trim decked out, stereos etc etc, daily drivers, not near stripped clean like many of the quick aircooled Bugs. So who is cheating now with the power to weight ratios.
hard to get people to understand just what that extra 120HP is like Andrew until they have experienced it.
type threes are heavier to begin with, net alone comparing a fully trimmed one ( + radiator ,added engine weight blah blah) to a stripped to bare essentials beetle
some of the quickest beetles had awsome suspension improvements over your road set up (neg camber, castor + years of development etc etc)
RACE SPEC TYRES!!........how many seconds a lap does that take off instantly
and track experience makes a huge difference, as you said.
add up a couple of seconds for each of the above senarios and your up the top 10 and getting quicker as you gain experience and dial it in even more!
i like them all !!!......sorry i didn't get the notch right to fly the subie flag on a more equal playing field to the other race cars........would have been very interesting discussions then...... whatever way the times went.......i now wish i had of just driven my aircooled beetle there , raced, then driven back home again
oh the humanity 🤪
CLASSIC STEVE CARTER!..........you took that car to the extreme mod end of things and back again.........pretty much sums it up for me
Yogie ·
Joel wrote:klubfest being just over a fortnight away im not sure if all the electrical for my conversion will be finished so i may be there with twin weber induction roar following behind if you want to see how loud or quiet 40s are
Thanks Joel. If you bring your webers with you I would love to hear how they sound.
Cheers
Yogie
rupsta ·
Pfffttt..... im putting an aircooled in my Subi 😁
amazeer ·
I was very seriously thinking about putting my turbo type 4 in a citroen DS at one point. I was working for a Citroen dealer and fell for them. Whacky exterior design, but fairly advanced for their age, and very comfortable.
And who hasnt thought about putting a VW engine in a porsche.
Phil74Camper ·
That's a natural. The first 356s had modified VW engines. The 912 had a Type 4 engine, like the 914. The 924 had an Audi engine. The Cayenne SUV has a VW V8.
Apparently 'EJ20T' is not a valid Subaru code. It's a colloquial term used by fans - a bit like 'Bay Window' I suppose. Subaru used EJ20G, EJ20J, EH205 and EJ207 codes. Refer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_EJ_engine
And how good would it be to take a 911 6 cylinder out to replace it wit a more powerful VW 4.
Phil74Camper ·
I bet it would work out cheaper! It's only the more recent 911 engines (apart from the S and Carrera engines) that put out huge power. The first 911s in '63 had 1991cc flat sixes with just 96 kW. The 911S from '66 had 118 kW. Then the 2.2-litre engine from '69 made 114 kW (911E) or 132 kW (911S). I bet the turbo Kombi put out a lot more than that...
MickH ·
Phil74Camper wrote:I bet it would work out cheaper! It's only the more recent 911 engines (apart from the S and Carrera engines) that put out huge power. The first 911s in '63 had 1991cc flat sixes with just 96 kW. The 911S from '66 had 118 kW. Then the 2.2-litre engine from '69 made 114 kW (911E) or 132 kW (911S). I bet the turbo Kombi put out a lot more than that...
And the turbo Kombi is a grenade compared to those engines😍.....They went for power with reliability,sorta like a Subi engine.....😂
matberry ·
Well, I actually had a 2.2 T engine in my baja bus and although was awesome in sand and playing offroad it was a slug to tow with. I built a type IV 1970cc (stock) efi 914 engine that out performed the six most of the time, especially towing, and was certainly a more affordable build. $10 k + for Porsche rebuild is out of range of many.
LIFE IN THE LOW LANE ·
For me personally it is air cooled all the way. After Warwick last year seeing the times of the suby powered buses with 2.2L and minimual mods(exhaust, intake pod filters etc) compared to my warm Type 4 2.0L with 364 000km plus on it with a quick top end rebuild(rings and a head repair) and carbs that do need a freshen up to be quicker by nearly .5 sec over the 1/8th gave me all the proof I need.
Each to their own I agree but for the suby lovers to repeatedly say that a modified Air cooled engine isn't realiable is to me simply a case of you obvioulsy haven't built it right. Those who know my car and how i used to drive it all the time when I was a lil youger and less sympathetic on the machinery can vouch for the absolute hiding I gave it 95% of the time I drove it. Then to use it for my business doing 1000- 1400km a week racking up the K's it did also blew some away. Eventually I dropped a valve giving a commodore driver a lesson in Volkswagen education.
End result - engine did 364 000km's before i had to pull it out fo the car which i repaired last year before Warwick after it sat for nearly 4 years. As far as reliability went I had to replace some points, plugs, oil, filters, condensor and a new set of leads and air filters. Hardly what I would call unreliable!!
Best thing is beating some joker and then him asking me to pull over so he can have a look at the engine. Open the lid and let him look and watch the blood rush away from his face... can't do that with a suby in the back!!
As I have heard many times and love the quote...
Japenese HP is measured in shetland ponies and German HP is measured in Clydesdales.Air cooled mighten have the peak HP of a Suby/transplant of other origin but has the vital ingredient for pushing a bus made out of real steel... TORQUE!!(and please don't compare N/A to turbo as this is simply stupid.)
amazeer ·
Mine was a daily driven race kombi, that was used for towing, removal van, holiday camper. I had it for several years, which is absolutely amazing since I dont do any maintenance on my cars. The only car I have ever had that is more reliable is my 237,000km lancer. I change the oil religiously with every overdue timing belt.
Phil74Camper ·
Chris how would you do another turbo Kombi install now, knowing what you know from the last time? Looking to make it both as reliable, and strong, as possible (not a 'grenade')?
Do you think it would work out easier and cheaper than a Subaru conversion? And what about performance?
I wonder if people aren't aware of what can be done with a Type 4 VW engine.
amazeer ·
geez thats a loaded question.
If I had my dream kombi in the state of mind I am in now, it would be a green/white 77on microbus. It would be type 4. It would be a mild 2 litre with a small turbo running around 7psi boost. I'd have the turbo and water to air intercooler in the fuel tank area, and a long range alloy fuel tank under the rear seat. The turbo would feed into the orignal fuel injection throttle body. This way the engine bay would look original apart from missing an air filter. It's not a drag strip runner, but respectable. I guess it has the same amount of get up go as a 6 cylinder falcadore. It pulls hills in top gear easily.
This is all an evolutions of what I had on the ill fated valla trip where I melted the heads. That wasnt due to any fault of the engine design, that was due to some dubious carb jetting and possibly the ignition retard not working, bolted to an unknown stock 2 litr engine that I found lying out the back of hellbug. There are plenty of witnesses to that trip to attest to its durability. It started pinging its head off before I left Wollonong, towing my 400kg trailer with fastback on top, pretty much every tool I own, trolley jack, ramps, stands etc, and a family's worth of contents in the van Would have been close to 3 tonne rolling mass. The first head pretty much fell off at Kemspey KFC. I backed the valve train off and continued on to Valla at 80kmh. The other head had died well and truely by then, but we got there. There is not another engine in the universe that would have done that.
For me aI wouldnt use a replacement engine unti I wanted MORE power than an ej20 turbo. If I wanted more than that, I would modify the subaru Its not just a matter of bolting a turbo onto your kombi. You have to fab your intake and exhaust, you need to buy a counterweighted crank else you'll flog centre main. Type 4 heads shit me with their exhaust ports. Radiators on the front of kombis arent attractive. I dunno.
Could never do a rotary conversion because they are rotaries. Tripe and testicles are meat, by I dont want to eat them.
matberry ·
amazeer wrote:Would have been close to 3 tonne rolling mass. The first head pretty much fell off at Kemspey KFC. I backed the valve train off and continued on to Valla at 80kmh. The other head had died well and truely by then, but we got there. There is not another engine in the universe that would have done that.
This is the part that I love, an air cooled Volksy has to be the worst treated bit of machinery on the planet. All manner of backyard mechanics, done a million miles with ill fitting excuses for replacement parts, backpackers continually taking them around Australia with a VERY limited budget, and they still seem to keep on plodding to get you there. It's the LACK of water that allows this to happen, do that with your Superglue. (Not that I'm canning the Jap flat four or even the wbxr or any pumper for that matter as they all have thier pro's and con's)
coletrickle ·
I've gotta agree matt nothing take abuse like a vw air cooled engine although i am currently one and a half years into a study on the abuse and concequences of no maintance on a wasser boxer i'm pretty impressed so far.But back to the subies vs aircooled vw's whatever floats your boat'but don't call me on a sunday looking for some bit that you need for your subie but i've got plenty of shit for air cooled beetles!
helbus ·
I like the look of my 1993 Subaru Liberty. It looks like a 1975 VW Microbus. Pretty cool eh?
pete wood ·
I've been away for a while, but I like the thrust of most the discussion here. If I can make a couple of points.
first up, if you want an engine that produces more than 120hp the subaru is less $$$ and lasts longer.
secondly, aircooled motors are lighter so that helps them with less hp. however the EJ20t totally outclasses all but the highest $$$ aircooled motors for usuable power and torque
thirdly, re racing and aircooled VS subaru; it always comes down to the driver. we have some very talented drivers driving aircooled cars. i'd suggest they'd be fast no matter whether they drove a groupA commodore or goggomobile so I don't think the argument is valid. I raced on the weekend against another buggy with an aircooled motor. Both VWs, different engines, who will win? The better driver of course... Hope that was me, but I'm not holding my breath. 😂
fourthly, most people fitted subarus because they LIKED their aircooled motors but couldn't afford a hipo aircooled motor or saw the subaru as similar but an easy modern package. Like someone else compared it to putting an LS1 in an early holden. so again, in their minds it was never aircooled VS subaru. it was "I upgrade my aircooled".
I personally looked into a supercharged type4 engine for my buggy and the cost of the engine (without managment and supercharger) was outside my affordable range. I bought an EJ25 when they were uncommon and expensive and I still think it was cheaper than a serious aircooled engine. Do I hate aircooled motors? NO WAY. My plan is to build an aircooled rally car with my kids in years to come. So I'd finish by saying that the VW scene in Sydney has been ruined at various points by an "US and THEM" mentality. This is just another version of this. If you don't like subarus, don't buy one, but don't exclude, put down, abuse or question people's loyalty for choosing a subaru engine (I've suffered all of the previous). Try walking a mile in their shoes first and you might understand why they decided as they did.
It turned out way cheaper than even modifying the 1916 type 1 VW engine that I had in there, and it is a lot more powerful and refined.
trickysimon ·
Certainly alot cheaper than aircooled. I'm not long off the 5k mark on the 1915 I'm building and I'm still not even finished.
pete wood ·
you don't want to overplay the cheap angle of subarus though. a basic 1600/1641 is a much cheaper proposition than converting over to an EJ. and there's 1916s and 1916s. an hillclimb champion spec 1916 is going to be a STACK more $$$ than a stockish kadron fed 1916.
Baja Wes ·
You can do both cheap, and both expensive.
Pay only for parts with a 1916 and it will be a lot less than if you pay someone to do everything.
Same with an engine conversion. Do it all yourself like me and it will be cheap, pay someone else and it will cost a lot.
Having said that, doing everything yourself the engine conversion ends up cheaper. My 1916 had twin webers, 044 heads, high ratio rockers, parts that add up even when you do all the labour yourself.
matberry ·
This cost for hp argument is interesting but there are always two sides to the coin. I'm currently working on a couple of subi powered cars and one of which has over $25k 'invested' in the engine. And thats without the Motec !..... It's all relative.
Baja Wes ·
The $25k subi would want to make way more power than any VW engine would.
There was a modified version of my 2.5L V6 for sale that had a lot of work including twin turbos. It was for sale for $25-30k but it made 800HP and was reliable enough for circuit racing not just a dyno queen.
matberry ·
She aint no dyno queen, built for street and race, with quite a few more ponies than std. Still a sh1t load of $$$ tho. As for more power than 'ANY' VW...come on Wes, do you really think so....
I have seen a few examples of more power from a vw than subi when compared pound for pound of boost pressure, I've even driven some, but I do like the equation when talking stock and $$$'s for replacement, it's just all the other crap that is needed to fit one, it soon takes the edge off the performance with all the extra weight added.
pete wood ·
matberry wrote:This cost for hp argument is interesting but there are always two sides to the coin. I'm currently working on a couple of subi powered cars and one of which has over $25k 'invested' in the engine. And thats without the Motec !..... It's all relative.
I'd like to hear more about that conversion. he must have one heck of a trans to go behind it. 🤪
matberry ·
Renault UN5 trans, 35" rubber, 18" suspension travel front and rear, Fox coils all round, bypass also on rears, all this with recaro, leather and air....🤪
Jak Rizzo ·
I sold my turn key 2275cc engine, did my conversion & came out $3200 in front. I went from 117hp @ the wheels to 201hp @ the wheels in 5 weeks.
But it doesn't matter.
As long as u enjoy your vw each time u turn the key, thats all that matters.
Jak
pete wood ·
matberry wrote:Renault UN5 trans, 35" rubber, 18" suspension travel front and rear, Fox coils all round, bypass also on rears, all this with recaro, leather and air....🤪
pics pics pics. is it gonna be street regoed?! 🤓
BTW, Jak, your car is awesome and a great advert for driving your VW no matter what engine it may or may not have.
p.s. love the new wheels too. it looks horn! 🤘
matberry ·
Jak Rizzo wrote:But it doesn't matter.
As long as u enjoy your vw each time u turn the key, thats all that matters.
Jak
Couldn't agree more^^^.
Cars above aren't mine and the owners are shy.
Might find some teasers tho😂😂😂
matberry ·
I grafted the dash in from a 996 ...should look cool
Mick058 ·
wow, i like the gauge idea - awesome!
pete wood ·
so is it getting rego? or is it a play only machine?
Jak Rizzo ·
Can u get ADR approval for those brakes? or is it just for the track.
Also, what is inside a $25'000 subaru engine?
I had my WRX engine rebuilt back in 2005 for about $2200. 20thou oversize pistons, ACL race bearings, balanced bottom end, ARP head studs, new water pump, timing belt etc. Was also picked up delivered to my house. It has 201hp & 205ft of torque @ the wheels on 8psi boost. by turning the boost controller up to 13psi I can get 250hp@ the wheels. I've done over 113'000ks after the rebuild. It scares me daily. Has done over 18 track days too.
I just don't kow how I could spend 25k on my engine. This is meant to be of no offence Matt, purely curiosity. it's great to hear of other peoples big budget build ups
regards
Jak
matberry ·
I dont know all the details as I wasn't commisioned for the engine build. It goes something like....2.5 liter, new sti crank and block, bigger injectors, big turbo, probably flash pistons...guaranteed over 500 rwhp :-) . Then the cooling system and intercoolers are extra. I think one reason the big tag is due to building the first version to 300hp then giving it back to the engine shop still in the same shrink wrap and saying "I need more power".....nice to be some hey😀
ibmoknegawsklov ·
just an intersting side note. I have yet to see a vw motor transplanted into a subaru.............mmmmmmmmmmm
Baja Wes ·
because it wouldn't have enough power to move a subaru 🙂
Now ya talkin, sorta an offroad version of this from another thread here
pete wood ·
look, lets be honest. if VW had a cheap, easily available alternative to aircooled engine that fit nicely in early engine bays, we'd running with them, but since subaru came up with the cheapest boxer alternative, we are using it. coz any way you look at it, the cheap VW engine we see over here are the sucky models. the good ones (like the VR6 and R32) don't fit and are just prohibitively expensive in our part of the world... not that they seem to be using them in europe or the US though. whatever that might mean. ❓
matberry ·
I think boxer is the most important component, then comes modern ....l then ohc efi and a bit of h2o can't be all that bad....or maybe turbo the wbxr......
Baja Wes ·
matberry wrote:Renault UN5 trans, 35" rubber, 18" suspension travel front and rear, Fox coils all round, bypass also on rears, all this with recaro, leather and air....🤪
I know who's car this is, I have seen it at it's previous workshop resting place. That engine price isn't right.
His last Baja had 3x3 trailing arms, a subaru EJ20T, air con, 33" mudders and heaps of $$$ spend on heaps of stuff. I drove it after he sold it, and although it had a lot of money spent it wasn't sorted. It had lots of issues and drove like sh*t compared to my Baja (my wife agreed when we drove it into work in peak hour traffic one day).
And you won't see his car at any VW shows, because he doesn't like VW people or VW shows.
JVLRacing ·
pete wood wrote:look, lets be honest. if VW had a cheap, easily available alternative to aircooled engine that fit nicely in early engine bays, we'd running with them, but since subaru came up with the cheapest boxer alternative, we are using it. coz any way you look at it, the cheap VW engine we see over here are the sucky models. the good ones (like the VR6 and R32) don't fit and are just prohibitively expensive in our part of the world... not that they seem to be using them in europe or the US though. whatever that might mean. ❓
VR6 mmm working for me🥷
matberry ·
Baja Wes wrote:
matberry wrote:Renault UN5 trans, 35" rubber, 18" suspension travel front and rear, Fox coils all round, bypass also on rears, all this with recaro, leather and air....🤪
I know who's car this is, I have seen it at it's previous workshop resting place. That engine price isn't right.
His last Baja had 3x3 trailing arms, a subaru EJ20T, air con, 33" mudders and heaps of $$$ spend on heaps of stuff. I drove it after he sold it, and although it had a lot of money spent it wasn't sorted. It had lots of issues and drove like sh*t compared to my Baja (my wife agreed when we drove it into work in peak hour traffic one day).
And you won't see his car at any VW shows, because he doesn't like VW people or VW shows.
Sorry Wes, but all your statement is not correct and it is not for me to argue the details here. I drove his last car before brad detuned it and the engine and car that you have seen is for the other car. As for liking vw people....if only you knew. I think you are somehow miss guided.
Baja Wes ·
I'm just going by what he said to me when I asked him why he doesn't take his car to shows, back when he had just finished his last car. I believe the word "wankers" was used. Maybe he has changed his tune since then.
matberry ·
Baja Wes wrote:I believe the word "wankers" was used. Maybe he has changed his tune since then.
No, there's still plenty of wankers out there.😂
I've known the guy for 24 years and have had a lot to do with a few of his projects over the years so I do know about the project and how much time and money has gone into it and for that matter his old car. What erks me is someone saying I've got my facts wrong with nothing to back up thier info...so lets kill another interesting thread because of lack of interesting, factual input.
pete wood ·
JVLRacing wrote:
pete wood wrote:look, lets be honest. if VW had a cheap, easily available alternative to aircooled engine that fit nicely in early engine bays, we'd running with them, but since subaru came up with the cheapest boxer alternative, we are using it. coz any way you look at it, the cheap VW engine we see over here are the sucky models. the good ones (like the VR6 and R32) don't fit and are just prohibitively expensive in our part of the world... not that they seem to be using them in europe or the US though. whatever that might mean. ❓
VR6 mmm working for me🥷
then why did you put an EJ20T in your oval race car?
btw, what ever happened to that car?
Baja Wes ·
matberry wrote:No, there's still plenty of wankers out there.😂
I've known the guy for 24 years and have had a lot to do with a few of his projects over the years so I do know about the project and how much time and money has gone into it and for that matter his old car. What erks me is someone saying I've got my facts wrong with nothing to back up thier info...so lets kill another interesting thread because of lack of interesting, factual input.
You clearly know him very well, I have only spoken to him a few times. I just stated what he said to me. His old Baja was on the road a long time and it never turned up at a show, so I assumed he meant what he said to me.
When his last car was built it was awesome. When it was sold it was f**ked. He drove it hard that's for sure. The air con didn't even work anymore.
As you said the $25k wasn't spent on the one engine, so it isn't a $25k engine.
Although I didn't speak to the owner much, I saw the car a lot as the last workshop was asking for my engineering advice on the best way to proceed with ensuring the car was as legal as it could be. That's why I recognised the car from your description and the photos.
JVLRacing ·
pete wood wrote:
JVLRacing wrote:
pete wood wrote:look, lets be honest. if VW had a cheap, easily available alternative to aircooled engine that fit nicely in early engine bays, we'd running with them, but since subaru came up with the cheapest boxer alternative, we are using it. coz any way you look at it, the cheap VW engine we see over here are the sucky models. the good ones (like the VR6 and R32) don't fit and are just prohibitively expensive in our part of the world... not that they seem to be using them in europe or the US though. whatever that might mean. ❓
VR6 mmm working for me🥷
then why did you put an EJ20T in your oval race car?
btw, what ever happened to that car?
1st question ...why not cheap good hps
2nd question...who said i got rid of it.🙅
Jak Rizzo ·
1st question ...why not cheap good hps
so why did u take it out then? Surely u can't tell us that the VR6 is better?
Jak
JVLRacing ·
Jak Rizzo wrote:1st question ...why not cheap good hps
so why did u take it out then? Surely u can't tell us that the VR6 is better?
Jak
.....never said there was a problem with the subie Jak did i? Overall jako drivin the R32 The power is smoother....
hellbugged ·
JVLRacing wrote:
Jak Rizzo wrote:1st question ...why not cheap good hps
so why did u take it out then? Surely u can't tell us that the VR6 is better?
Jak
.....never said there was a problem with the subie Jak did i? Overall jako drivin the R32 The power is smoother....
yep, power there from idle all the way........race car a lot lighter than the R32 too!
pete wood ·
JVLRacing wrote:1st question ...why not cheap good hps
2nd question...who said i got rid of it.🙅
I thought you were selling everything?
JVLRacing ·
pete wood wrote:
JVLRacing wrote:1st question ...why not cheap good hps
2nd question...who said i got rid of it.🙅
I thought you were selling everything?
Things picked up Pete😎
JVLRacing ·
hellbugged wrote:
JVLRacing wrote:
Jak Rizzo wrote:1st question ...why not cheap good hps
so why did u take it out then? Surely u can't tell us that the VR6 is better?
Jak
.....never said there was a problem with the subie Jak did i? Overall jako drivin the R32 The power is smoother....
yep, power there from idle all the way........race car a lot lighter than the R32 too!
😎
hellbugged ·
pete wood wrote:I thought you were selling everything?
he hee, i remember a certain purple subie powered J&S buggy being for sale a while back too 🤓........had this horrible radiator in the back thing going on, i believe it's a lot better nowdays
reub ·
😁
Jak Rizzo ·
[/quote].....never said there was a problem with the subie Jak did i? Overall jako drivin the R32 The power is smoother.... [/quote]
Would the VR6 upset the handling since so much of the engine is above the centreline of the crank?
Also , where do u buy a VR6 engine from & how much are they?
CT's Oval beat all the Golf R36's in the Dutton as well. They sound good though.
Jak
pete wood ·
wow, would have been some cranky owners there. what that boils down to is the driver though. CT is a great steerer. most of the golf owners were probably newbies, right?
Jak Rizzo ·
I don't know, we were first timers whereas everyone else were seasoned campainers
JVLRacing ·
Jak Rizzo wrote:
.....never said there was a problem with the subie Jak did i? Overall jako drivin the R32 The power is smoother.... [/quote]
Would the VR6 upset the handling since so much of the engine is above the centreline of the crank?
Also , where do u buy a VR6 engine from & how much are they?
CT's Oval beat all the Golf R36's in the Dutton as well. They sound good though.
Jak [/quote]
You blokes should be good enough doin lots of supersprints😎.......Beatin a R36 at a weight of 1500kgs plus with a bug at 800kgs still comes into play.
Jako...
pete wood ·
hellbugged wrote:he hee, i remember a certain purple subie powered J&S buggy being for sale a while back too 🤓........had this horrible radiator in the back thing going on, i believe it's a lot better nowdays
nah, it's still pretty horrible. 😂
wanna swap your horrible notch for it? 😉
hellbugged ·
😂not yet pete...maybe one day when its reliable enough to sell with a clean conscience...subaru reliability pffft
JVLRacing ·
hellbugged wrote:😂not yet pete...maybe one day when its reliable enough to sell with a clean conscience...subaru reliability pffft