I'm considering fitting an electric fuel pump to my '59 beetle with a 1600 engine. I've heard that the best location is under the fuel tank, and I have a couple of other questions about how to do this properly...
What is the right knd of pressure range needed?
Where should the pump get electric power from?
Do I need some kind of safety cut-off, if so how should that be set up?
Thanks in advance
Adsman ·
You will need to buy a pump to suit a carby motor they run a lower pressure around 4.
Yes fitting them under the fuel tank is a good idea to prevent the pump sucking air.
You won't necessarily need any safety cut off for fuel pressure but depending on your carby an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator might be helpful. (try without first most times not needed, as pumps have an internal pressure regulator)
To power your pump its a good idea to run a new feed from the battery via a relay to the pump switch the relay off your ignition (saves filling the motor with fuel if you forget to turn off the pump after stopping the engine..lol)
Its also a good idea to rubber mount your pump as it saves some of the vibration noise in the cab (just remember to add an earth strap to the pump housing if rubber mounting)
HotRodMatt ·
Adsman wrote:You won't necessarily need any safety cut off for fuel pressure
But you are required to have a tachometric relay or similar to switch off the pump if the engine stops.
grumble ·
i agree with HotRodMatt you definitely need a cut out in case of accident,there would be nothing worse than being in a vehicle after a crash with the engine stopped and the fuel pump spraying fuel over a hot motor through a ruptured fuel line whilst you were trapped or incapaitated.I use a relay triggered by the oil pressure switch which cuts the fuel when there is no fuel pressure. As there is usually fuel in the carby there is no problem starting. Cheers Les
Joel ·
what makes you want to go electric?
stock works well even feed a pair of IDAs
i ran one while ago but only cos i had no choice
first round it was wired by the charge light so it only ran when the alternator spun and second round i got a EFI fuel pump relay which works of tacho signal
they're usually noisy and pressure can be a problem with some carbs
kadrons are painfull with electric pumps
68AutoBug ·
Purple Martin wrote:I'm considering fitting an electric fuel pump to my '59 beetle with a 1600 engine. I've heard that the best location is under the fuel tank, and I have a couple of other questions about how to do this properly...
What is the right knd of pressure range needed?
Where should the pump get electric power from?
Do I need some kind of safety cut-off, if so how should that be set up?
Thanks in advance
Hi
Yes,
I have mine mounted under the tank...
I have it wired to the ignition thru a switch which is under the dash... so i can switch it off any time...
You only need about 2 PSI of fuel pressure so You don't need any large capacity pumps..
Mine is very quiet.. I only hear it when i turn the key on..
I ended up getting a fuel pressure regulator and gauge...
i have just purchased an electric fuel pump ( facet type with a pressure of 1.5 - 4 psi) for my 1600 L bug , stock motor with new solex 34pic carby. i was going to mount the pump in the engine bay on the passenger side panel. i have an oil pressure switch to run it through
1. will that get to hot for it there ?
2. from previous threads i am gatheriong i don't need a regulator, is that right?
Cheers
1303Steve ·
Hi
If you look at the instruction sheet that came with the pump, there are special things you need to do, it needs to be lower than the tank and close to the tank, inside the engine bay is the worst place to fit it.
Steve
baybug ·
thanks - i will go looking for a spot under the tank
HotRodMatt ·
68AutoBug wrote:I have it wired to the ignition thru a switch which is under the dash... so i can switch it off any time...
Except if you crash and burn to death...
Having an automated power shut off is one requirement that makes sense!
68AutoBug ·
baybug wrote:i have just purchased an electric fuel pump ( facet type with a pressure of 1.5 - 4 psi) for my 1600 L bug , stock motor with new solex 34pic carby. i was going to mount the pump in the engine bay on the passenger side panel. i have an oil pressure switch to run it through
1. will that get to hot for it there ?
2. from previous threads i am gathering i don't need a regulator, is that right?
Cheers
Hi
I got away without a fuel regulator for about 6 months...
then My engine started to flood....
I left My key on one day and fuel was coming out My muffler...
You don't need more than 2 PSI...
and under the fuel tank is best...
some pumps need to be in a certain position too...
make sure you have a fuse in line plus a fuel filter....
cheers
LEE
I have got a pic somewhere??
Joel ·
baybug wrote:i was going to mount the pump in the engine bay on the passenger side panel. i have an oil pressure switch to run it through
definately under the tank
my rotary converted bug had one there and the pumps can run dry on a low tank if u face down hill
electric pumps need a good gravity feed
only place to get that is under the tank
baybug ·
thanks again
yes i have got a oil pressure switch to cut off power if oil pressure drops.
i kinda figured that the engine bay may gat a bit hot as well for the pump
i will take advice and get a regulator about 2psi, if i can find one
cheers
baybug ·
just a few more silly questions
does the fuel pump need to be bfore the filter and does the regulator need to be close to the pump ?
cheers
Joel ·
doesnt matter where the reg is just as long as its before the carbs 😂
definately put the filter before the pump
electric pump have a habit of stopping at inconvenient times when rust flakes from the tank try to go through them
68AutoBug ·
baybug wrote:thanks again
yes i have got a oil pressure switch to cut off power if oil pressure drops.
i kinda figured that the engine bay may gat a bit hot as well for the pump
i will take advice and get a regulator about 2psi, if i can find one
cheers
Hi
Regulators - Holley is the most common type...
but there are a few different ones about...
and they ARE adjustable....
just screw or dial in the lowest setting..
I have My regulator in the engine bay...
but the pump and filter is under the fuel tank..
I ended up buying a fuel pressure gauge to see what the pressure was.. .lol
I really only wanted to check the pressure... Oh welll..
LEE
68AutoBug ·
baybug wrote:thanks again
yes i have got a oil pressure switch to cut off power if oil pressure drops.
i kinda figured that the engine bay may gat a bit hot as well for the pump
i will take advice and get a regulator about 2psi, if i can find one
cheers
I just found a circuit diagram for a fuel pump in one of My folders... lol...
which includes a relay and cut off.. lol
LEE
baybug ·
thanks
i would love a copy of the circut diagram just to make sure i am doing it right.
i have a pressure regulator from local speed shoop dial up the pressure frpm 0.5 to 5 psi and i think it will end up in the engine bay.
it is tight under the tank to find a spot for the pump. will they work mounted on their side to the viertical wall or do they have to be flat
cheers
11CAB ·
Here's a link that uses a normal switching relay off the charge light circuit.
got the fuel pump all done and fitted under the tank near the filter, i ended up getting an aftermarket regulator that was adjustable 0 - 5 psi !!!!!!! turns out it was adjustable 0 -0, it completely blocked all fuel flow. so i threw it back to the shop. trying it without one for a while and see.
huge improvement in the bug, though that may also be due to the new carby and manifolds as well
thanks all for your advice, it is reallly great being part of the vw family
cheers
Purple Martin ·
I've had an idea...
As has been said, the relay can run from the charge light circuit so the pump will cut out if the engine stops.
I read somewhere that someone also put a relay by-pass push-button switch on the dash so they can fill the carb before starting the car. My idea is: instead of using a relay by-pass switch, use a second relay that runs from the starter motor circuit to fill the carb while cranking.
Am I mad?
11CAB ·
The link I posted above does that as well, but all with the one relay. You can buy them at Repco for about $13
Joel ·
Purple Martin wrote:I've had an idea...
As has been said, the relay can run from the charge light circuit so the pump will cut out if the engine stops.
I read somewhere that someone also put a relay by-pass push-button switch on the dash so they can fill the carb before starting the car. My idea is: instead of using a relay by-pass switch, use a second relay that runs from the starter motor circuit to fill the carb while cranking.
Am I mad?
its been done
works well
heres a diagram
matberry ·
Good info above. Thanks Joel.
snowman9 ·
My thanks Joel as well. 👍
General_Failure ·
I'm using a tacho relay from a VK Dunnydoor. Works a treat even though my relay's primer function seems to be buggered.
Recently i ended up with a tacho relay used in LPG systems. Looks like it would do the job pretty much as well, so even though it isn't pin compatible I have a spare if I need it.
VolksVair ·
Any electric fuel pump installation i do, I run the power through an oil pressure switch, "No oil pressure, No fuel pressure" A 12V shut off valve is a good bonus too
Joel ·
That's all well and good on a fresh engine but one that's got a few miles under it's belt can take a few seconds to get oil pressure and when hot the oil light can flicker at idle which can upset the relay or worse yet cut the fuel pump out.
not fun when you're sitting at traffic lights.
It's so easy to get a tachometric fuel pump relay, nearly all fuel injected cars use them.
I had one from a Commodore and it was great, it primed the pump for 2 secs when you turned the ignition on then waited for a tacho signal before it ran again and stopped soon as the tach signal stopped.
bajachris88 ·
i rekon having that tachometer based switch or charge light off the alternator is the way to go,
but have an override momentary push button that you hold while cranking to 'prime' then of course the alternator or tacho goes and u let go of the override then technically it should run itself :P
68AutoBug ·
bajachris88 wrote:i rekon having that tachometer based switch or charge light off the alternator is the way to go,
but have an override momentary push button that you hold while cranking to 'prime' then of course the alternator or tacho goes and u let go of the override then technically it should run itself :P
An on/off switch thru the ignition is better...
I always switch the pump switch off automatically after turning the key off.
A light comes on when the pump is turned OFF....
and ignition is ON....
LEE
VolksVair ·
Joel wrote:That's all well and good on a fresh engine but one that's got a few miles under it's belt can take a few seconds to get oil pressure and when hot the oil light can flicker at idle which can upset the relay or worse yet cut the fuel pump out.
not fun when you're sitting at traffic lights.
It's so easy to get a tachometric fuel pump relay, nearly all fuel injected cars use them.
I had one from a Commodore and it was great, it primed the pump for 2 secs when you turned the ignition on then waited for a tacho signal before it ran again and stopped soon as the tach signal stopped.
Hi Joel, if I had a motor that when hot, the oil light would flicker, I would pull it down & freshen it up before it shit the tin. Your tachometric fuel pump rely from a dunnydore sounds like a good set up, cheers Frank
Joel ·
I'd do the same as well but you would be amazed how many of the general public don't.
I used to see it all time at the garage when VWs were alot more common as dailys, they would come in for a pink slip or a service, usually a few thousand miles overdue for an oil change and the light would just flicker at idle if it was still hot.
My best mates 68 does also does it.
It's running perfectly, has good compression etc but it's done nearly 200,000 miles since we put that motor in back in '96 and when hot gets the light flicker.
He's getting a new engine eventually so is happy enough to leave it.
Craig Torrens ·
just fit a 30mm oil pump.......it will then go for another 200,000miles 😉
airhead ·
which wire should i connect to on my super for fuel pump to run on ignition start 🙂
um yeah and what colour would that be.
tweety ·
About to install my Ea81 into the trike (see non Vw conversions). So a fuel pump is needed. It is great you guys on here answering these questions especially the safety aspect eg cut outs.
Well done guys. you are serving more than the OP most of the time.
Going there this arvo to check it out and get more info on how it works. looks clean and neat but wan tto make sure it will do its job.
ZAPZAP
68AutoBug ·
WOW
that sounds great
would have saved a lot of beetles with electric pumps, and even more minis.. [as they did have electric fuel pumps]
LEE
Must sense the flow of fuel..
1303Steve ·
Hi
I had a tachometric relay from a EFI BMWon my sons 1303 but it didn't like the signal coming from the MSD, the tacho signal comes out of the MSD box and not directly from the coil -
So I've now fitted a double through relay.
87 not used
87A goes to the pump
85 goes to the oil pressure warning light wire
86 & 30 are joined and fed by the ignition switch
On this relay when its at rest with no ignition feed, no power comes out of the relay at 87 or 87A
Turn the ignition on and the relay gets earth from the oil pressure switch, no power comes out of 87A, it only come out of 87 which is not used.
When the oil pressure builds the warning light goes out and the relay has no earth so it goes back to rest state but power goes through the relay at pin 30 and on to 87A to power the pump, if there is no oil pressure the relay is earthed again which takes power away from 87A.
The BMW tachometric relay cost me about $80 or $90, the Hella double through relay was under $20
The things that are not ideal with this setup,
1. no fuel flow until oil pressure builds, not ideal if the carbs are dry for some reason.
2. pumps stays on until the pressure drops when the motor is cold as the oil is still gluggy
Steve
binner ·
ok , so the unit contains a metal ball (conductor) that sits in a steel cone/ inverted pyramid that makes a circuit. Once there is impact/force it throws the ball out and cuts the circuit to the fuel pump. It also has a reset knob if it does jump out. Would take a good hit to knock the ball out though and one that I hope never to get 😁
thanks for that tip binner. i just ordered one of the collision shut-off switches, I thought it was a no brainer.
As well I got a Peel CP30 fuel control (tachiometric) relay. $40. They are used by the auto-gas installers and do everything that is needed for a petrol fuel pump. Monitors tacho signal, puts out a brief prime signal when ignition first on, and switches off if tacho signal lost. Might have to use it to drive a standard relay to switch pump supply if the contact ratings arent rated high enough for the pump amps.
Completely covers it now I reckon.
binner ·
^^^^^ yeah how simple an idea and the ease of installation is whacky. Everyone should have one installed for the cost.
tested todayin extreem offroad driving it takes all without dropping the switch but vertical mounting is critical for resetting
SunshineKarmann ·
Picked up a Rabbit (aka Golf) relay off aircooled.net. Running a Carter rotary pump and Holley regulator.
SunshineKarmann ·
Further to the above, new engine is in car and running. The Carter rotary pump is a very loud fecker. No vibration as it is rubber mounter but can hear the whirring on idle. Good thing the new engine and exhuast drown out the noise 👍
Have had absolutely no issue at all with the Rabbit Relay set up.
binner ·
ok,so Im' now up and running but because I have never had a vw with an electric fuel pump I'm not sure if i have the regulator set correctly, after about 10mins of nice idle it sounds like the carbs starve of fuel and the engine dies... could this be fuel starve, wrong psi/flow for reg?
I bought a reg off CIP1 but it doesn't have a bypass back to the fuel tank and now I'm thinking maybe it would be smart to run a reg with a return to the tank. What do you think of these (link below) and would 3psi be too much for my donk, I'm running dual 40 idfs with jet doctors and a empi HD fuel punp at the moment. Or does anyone have a choice of regs to use .........
Also, would it be smart to make the fuel hose length the same from both carbs to meet the fuel line, at the moment one is shorter than the other?
Mallory seems to be the go - there is 2 and 3 way versions
Do you know what you have set the regulator to??
thanks for the linky dink!!.
I'm not sure what I set it to, kinda faked it, i guess I'm off to buy a psi gauge tomorrow
binner ·
ordered my mallory with return to tank pump today.... I think a return and 2 outlets to carbs is the better way to go.
shabang.......
spearsy ·
If your going to go electric, buy a Pierberg pump. They are 3psi, suck and pump as well. The only thing is they are $150 but you get what you pay for. Excellent quality and hassle free. I ran one for 6 years in my bus and it never skipped a beat.
vduboy ·
I bought one of those Peel CP30 LPG relays off Ebay to fit up with my new fuel carter rotary pump. Tested out the prime function which it does have thankfully. That makes the install very straight forward. Weird thing with the webers is they empty the bowls if sitting for longer than a week. Hence the electric pump. The kaddies never did that at all. One pump on the throttle and it was started.
Just have to machine up some adapters from the 5mm fuel tank pipe to the 8mm pump fittings.
68AutoBug ·
I have a plastic electric fuel pump which is located under the fuel tank and I have an ON/OFF switch under the dash and a bright light on the dash to show it is OFF.. The pump is rubber mounted but I can hear it ticking... when it is switched ON... Car will drive about 100 meters until the bowl is dry...
I also run a Holley fuel pressure regulator with a small gauge attached to it.. on the LHS of the fan housing..
I have run these for over 10 years. I always carry a spare identical electric fuel pump for just in case..
3 PSI with a brasillian WEBER dfv-228 carburetor 1600 SP engine.
LEE
DasAuto77 ·
My understanding is that the tachometric relay is mainly a safety measure. The kind of scenario where you have crashed or rolled the vehicle and engine has stalled and you do not have the presence of mind, or indeed the consciousness, to turn off ignition or any other switch. The Peel relays are so cheap and easy to install it just makes sense IMHO.