Hi All,
I know I probably belong in another forum as my car is only veedub when it come to the chassis, suspension and gearbox but I need a little advice.
Background: I have Purvis Eureka with a 12A turbo motor. The motor seems to be bog stock but it does have a Haltec E8 ECU hanging off it. Last month the right side axle sheered the splines on the disc hub and did some damage in the transaxle as well. The front transaxle mount was sheered as well. All of this has been pulled out and now sits on the garage floor in shame馃槧
Project: Since I live just 20mins from Willowbank I would like to put back in a really good transaxle setup that will handle a bit of a beating, ei go down the 1/4 mile. I intend to stick with the 12at for Qld rego legal reasons but happy to do as much as possible to the setup to see what can be done.
Experience: I'm one of those fat old farts with 4 kids who wants to try something different. I can swing a spanner but just need some guidance.
Rear end: Swing arm
Brakes: 4 disc
Hubs: 5 stud ea pattern
I'm in contact with Rancho in the states but I would like to check out other options/ideas.
Thanks all.
Dean
colonel mustard 路
gearbox rebuilds - dave butler - "dangerous"
馃檪
hellbugged 路
yeah welcome......
Don't worry, it's the right place for Eurekas too.
yes Dave will be able to build you a gearbox to handle anything you can throw at it.........and he is just down the road from you.
after you have 5 posts you will be able to send him a personal message.
have a look around for posts by Aaron AKA "quickcamper" in the drag race forum, 700hp rotary powered kombi nutbag 馃憤
Gunna 路
Thanks heaps guys, just what I needed!
One of the first questions I'll have is:
What would be the maximum power I would see from a streetable 12at?
I can download 2 seperate maps into the Haltec. One for the strip and one for the street.
Need this info to sort out what the drivline needs to handle before I go annoying Dave.
Any guesses?
Gunna 路
I should add that there are limitations to this project and basically they are that it needs to be streetable (The Eureka isn't the best drive anyway) and I'm stuck with the 12a turbo due to Queensland rego laws (getting approval for a different motor is not part of the plans).
If I'm going to put bits in I don't want them to break. I want the weak link in the chain to be were the wheels meet the road. Then I can work on et's.
hellbugged 路
both Aaron and Dave would be the most down to earth approachable people you could hope to meet, so don't think you will be a "bother"
ask Aaron about the rotary, for sure he will know of a mazda forum where you will find any info you're after.
this would be Aaron actually "20bkombi" now........
Gunna wrote:Thanks heaps guys, just what I needed!
One of the first questions I'll have is:
What would be the maximum power I would see from a streetable 12at?
I can download 2 seperate maps into the Haltec. One for the strip and one for the street.
Need this info to sort out what the drivline needs to handle before I go annoying Dave.
Any guesses?
You can comfortably see 300rwkw from a street driven 12A. You will need to spend some money on a quality rebuild though if you want it to last, including good seals and some porting for your application. The problem you might run into is if the housings or plates are too worn and need replacing, they can be expensive and hard to find for 12A's. The engine's haven't been made for a good few years now and brand new stocks are running out. There are a number of workshops up your way that specialise in rotaries and are right into the drag scene. With even 200rwkw though, your car will fly and be heaps of fun, i'd imagine they're not very heavy.
Good luck with your build, they really are an awesome engine and very reliable if built properly, despite what people say.
check out ausrotary.com there is more info here on rotaries than probably anywhere else on the net, you just have to put up with a few dickheads and stupid posts to find what you're after.
cheers, Scotty
Gunna 路
Thanks Scotty.
Doing it right is the plan.
The previous owner did well with paint and interior but the mechnicals left a lot to be desired.
Which has opened an opportunity to replace broken things for this project, and have a little fun on the way thru.
I'm not after "the best", as there is always someone better out there. Just getting behind the wheel on a 1/4 mile is my goal.
Thanks again everyone, I'll go chasing.
Will update along the way.
Dean
Gunna 路
I just needed to stick up one more post so I can start PM'ing.
This was the last photo before it was retired to the shed for the current gearbox repair. Thanks to the towy, great bloke.
Say g'day if you see me around.
reub 路
Still love these cars.... Looks cool dude馃憤
Dasdubber 路
Looks nice and slippery for the quarter (ie. aerodynamic compared to a beetle!)......I can vouch for Dave being the go-to man for boxes (as I'm sure reub and damo [hellbugged]) can attest to as well.
Good luck with the motor/box rebuild!
Al
77dual 路
You could also consider a naturally aspirated rotary. You can get good power out of them for the money, a 12A or 13B bridgeport or extend port would move it along nicely. With injection they're a little friendlier to drive than carb fed ones too, especially the more they're modified. The only real problem would be exhaust noise and fabrication, with bridgeports if you shut them up they just don't go very well, and being rear engined there isn't much room for a decent rotor suited exhaust. Sticking with the turbo eliminates a lot of exhaust noise.
A Renesis 13B (RX8) could work too, it would give you pretty good power while having low emissions and noise, better economy and reliability too.
Just a couple more options anyway.
If it were me, I'd go for a 51mm Weber fed 13B bridgeport, it'd be loud and cranky but so much fun and I like old school stuff 馃檪
Gunna 路
Hi All,
Dropped off the box, axles and hubs to Dave today to do his thing. I learnt lots and will keep you all posted as we go. Sorry to hold you up for so long Dave.
First step is to order a set of heavy duty axles off Rancho and get a Quaife centre. I'd like to go to solid rear end but I need it streetable.
Dave also suggested the Rhino case which sounds like an excellent option.
I'll also need to chase up the hub centres (I run EA Ford pattern rear disc's) with John Sherman but that'll be a couple of weeks before he gets back. The old hubs weren't tigthened to the axles, things got sloppy and has sheared off the LHS splines. I think they call that free-wheeling.
I'll look around for a gearbox strap kit, poly mounts and the intermediate (extra rear mount for the box). Again, I could go solid mounts but I have enough squeaks and rattles in the Eureka without adding any more.
Dave had some good suggestions about beefing up the Y fork area holding the gearbox (not sure what you call it). That area will have some braces added between the Y to the shocky struts to give it some torsional strength. There is a kit available that can be welded in. I suck at engine and gearbox rebuilds but I can weld a little.
Let the searching start.
Dean
P.S. Thanks for the heads up guys.
Gunna 路
77dual wrote:You could also consider a naturally aspirated rotary. You can get good power out of them for the money, a 12A or 13B bridgeport or extend port would move it along nicely. With injection they're a little friendlier to drive than carb fed ones too, especially the more they're modified. The only real problem would be exhaust noise and fabrication, with bridgeports if you shut them up they just don't go very well, and being rear engined there isn't much room for a decent rotor suited exhaust. Sticking with the turbo eliminates a lot of exhaust noise.
A Renesis 13B (RX8) could work too, it would give you pretty good power while having low emissions and noise, better economy and reliability too.
Just a couple more options anyway.
If it were me, I'd go for a 51mm Weber fed 13B bridgeport, it'd be loud and cranky but so much fun and I like old school stuff 馃檪
Thanks for the input 77,
I'm kinda stuck with 12a, 12aT or 13b due to the Eureka been only a little over 800kg. I read somewhere that my limit in engine sizes are those due to the weigh. I can get it re-engineered but not in the plans.
I hear you about the old school stuff. I grew up with carbys and simple ignitions BUT using injectors and having the ability to tune with an aftermarket ecu (in this case Haltec) will be fun and much more flexible when messing with a different turbo than stock.
I am very limited with exhaust plumbing. Although I'll moan about other things in the car's setup the exhaust which is currently fitted is by far the best option for a Eureka. So the exhaust stays as is, even if it flows a little wierd.
Again thanks 77 for your idea's. It certainly helps to plan the project.
Dean
hellbugged 路
Gunna wrote:Hi All,
Dropped off the box, axles and hubs to Dave today to do his thing. I learnt lots and will keep you all posted as we go. Sorry to hold you up for so long Dave.
Dave had some good suggestions about beefing up the Y fork area holding the gearbox (not sure what you call it). That area will have some braces added between the Y to the shocky struts to give it some torsional strength. There is a kit available that can be welded in. I suck at engine and gearbox rebuilds but I can weld a little.
great you found him, can't go wrong now!
try Craig Torrens for "kafer cup" bars for your rear support (frame horns)....
As Daimo says, the Y frame, is called the fram horns.... 馃檪
In reference to the rhino case, PM mick058, and ask if he has one for sale... I think he may have.
In regards to Rotors, You would be right in saying that you cannt run a 13b Turbo.... at least thats what iv always been told about beetles.
If you haven't contacted Aaron yet, do it. he is a super nice guy and knows alot about rotors... he built that 715hp engine himself. He may even be able to do a rebuild on your 12a 馃檪
if you have an ecu, don't bother going carby. even though a 51 would be sweet... :P
skelaaleks 路
if this was me i would keep the car rego'ed and put a 13bt motor in it once your motor dies
no one would spot it let alone know what motor is legal in the car. if you know what i mean.
as for the gearbox get whatever can handle the most power you should be getting 250hp up
stick with the rotas you get a lot of bang for your buck.
Aleks
Fellow VW/ Rotary addict
Ps check out this site ausrotary.com
Should help you out for all your rotary needs
colonel mustard 路
skelaaleks wrote:no one would spot it let alone know what motor is legal in the car. if you know what i mean.
most people in the know would notice if the car is turbo... abd the housings say what they are on them... fairly clearly
skelaaleks 路
It sounds to me like the car is already engineered for a 12at setup. I can tell u now police or road side inspector will bother checking the details of your blue plate on a car like this. Unless u are doing somthing stupid and they really want to through the book at you.
Gunna 路
Hello again guys.
Yep, the Skateboard is rego'd for the 12at so it'll probably stay that way unless the 13bt becomes a prefferred option馃ゲ Blown motor or really good buy on a race/worked 13bt.
Quaife Verses Rancho GT Diff's?
I just had an email back from Rancho saying: "GT Diff same as Quaife but better $1xxx".
I'm a little confused. I thought the Quaife was just about the best you can get without going to a locked centre?? Anyone got input?
I'd ask quaife and rancho themselves but I don't want the sales speak just yet. I'd rather the facts馃檪
dangerous 路
This is the GT(Guard Transmissions) Limited Slip Diff.
It has clutch packs instead of the torque bias design of the Quaife.
Although I believe that GT 'DO' make a torque bias diff too.
I have just started reading the first thread (shoptalk) and I found this comment very interesting. You had mentioned something about it the other day.
"Rear-engined Porsches and VWs have always performed better with true LSDs than with TBDs, because LSDs have decel lock-up and TBDs don't. TBDs are more suited to front or mid-engined cars."
Are they more suited to a drag application also? As you back off the power at the far end the diff dis-engages? Or am I totally confused?
dangerous 路
I think the 'Torque bias' version is best for drag racing,
but perhaps the GT 'torque bias' is better designed than the Quaife?
The GT 'clutch type' limited diff would be excellent for any form of circuit racing.
The quaife is a very nice unit though.
Any of these diffs will be stronger than a normal diff, superdiff, or factory ZF limited slip.
To give a stregth comparison, I think the crownwheel and pinion would fail long before any of the above mentioned diffs.
Always up at 5am.
Gunna 路
Thanks Dave,
Now it's all becoming a little clearer.
More reading...............less questions.
Edit: I have just done the sums and the difference between the Quaife and the GT is about $460.67AUD with the Quaife being cheaper (not including freight). If the TBD diff isn't going to be the "weak link" in the chain I think the Quaife gets my vote atm.
Edit 2: Unless the GT will have a better design that helps prevent the problem of one wheel gripping a fraction earlier than the other wheel at burnout (not sure of the terminology of that action). Which will help avoid gear shock/shudder.
skelaaleks 路
hey just thinging about your car
i think the next biggest problem you will have is the axles. then the gearbox itself
i have never got around to finishing my car but i was on the hunt for a cheap porche or aftermarket transaxle to put in.
i remeber my brother telling me that the guy with the 20b kombi had his axle replacment skills down pat. and that he used to carry around spares and tools in the back.
aleks
Gunna 路
Thanks Aleks,
Dave asked me to order a set of heavy duty axles. I'll get them out of Rancho this week (unless somebody has a set they want to sell?). Their weak point is at the ends were their a little skinny.
EDIT: I ordered the axles from CIP because they sell the EPMI units. Rancho sell the Swayaway units which have their issues in the current batch.
I read somewhere about Aarons axles and CV's been under a bit of stress with his setup and he changes them regularly. I'm sure he has that proceedure down pat. lol
Dean
dangerous 路
Quaife test:
Gunna 路
I'll leave my testing to race day.
Totally "Cop fodder" but none the less, impressive!
Gunna 路
Well all the box parts are in except the axles and quaife centre. Another 2 weeks for them to turn up.
In the meantime I'll get in contact with Craig Torrens for "kafer cup" bars for the rear support (frame horns).
Thanks Mr. Dangerous. Your too organised!!馃ゲ
Gunna 路
The axles have come in from CIP1 in record time by UPS.
Now I'm just waiting on the Quaife Torque Bias Differential to be sent.馃檨
Gunna 路
Some pics from Mr. Dangerous Dave.
STILL waiting on the Quaife. Supposed to be sent mid March....now end of month. Another 5 days and the GT gets ordered instead. It's only the waiting that kills馃檨
Gunna 路
More pics.
sinecure 路
WOOHOO! Finally another (registered!) kitcar on AVD. Welcome, brother.
I'm in Bris, hope to catch you around some time.
Gunna 路
sinecure wrote:WOOHOO! Finally another (registered!) kitcar on AVD. Welcome, brother.
I'm in Bris, hope to catch you around some time.
Love to catch up.
Nothing like been "special"??!!馃お馃憤
Gunna 路
Stardate Log Update:
I've had the Quaife TBD on order since the 25th of Feb. Got sick of the repeated "should be here next week" email excuses. Especially since I was initially told over the phone that it would be a couple of days before they are in!!
So the GT TBD is on the way. Lets see if it gets here before the Quaife gets into stock in the UK (been waiting for a total of 42 days so far).
I don't mind waiting, just hate been left in the dark and fed nothing but..............馃槵
Gunna 路
Gunna wrote:So the GT TBD is on the way. Lets see if it gets here before the Quaife gets into stock in the UK (been waiting for a total of 42 days so far). :
It'll be here tomorrow.
5 days from the US.
That's pretty good.馃槑
Gunna 路
It's here!
Now to take the HD axles and centre to Mr. Dave and let him do his magic.
dangerous 路
Very spiffy dude!!!!!
When are you coming down!?!
Gunna 路
Tomorrow if your about.
Gunna 路
Ordered the transaxle mounts and brackets today.
Not long now!! 馃檪
Gunna 路
Gearbox is assembled and waiting to be fitted.
Mounts and brakets are here from the US.
Taking 12aTurbo down on trailer to confirm all is well in the clutch area.
Getting there.
Haven't heard back re the fork mounts but will chase that tomorrow.
snowman9 路
dangerous wrote:Quaife test:
Tyres definitely look like the weak link in that drivetrain! 馃槀
Gunna 路
Some pics.
Gunna 路
I just had an email from Quaife saying the diff centre was in.
Glad I wasn't in a hurry. It would have been about 90 days to delivery instead of a week or so.
Rancho deliveried in 7 days for the GT.
Gunna 路
Gearbox is in.
Gunna 路
More pics.
Gunna 路
Connected the axles to the trailing arms and installed transaxle overide brackets.
If anyone ever needs to borrow the 18mm x 1.5 tap to clean out the two threads at the rear of the yokes just PM.
colonel mustard 路
Looks good! 馃檪
Gunna 路
Thanks Colonel,
I just hope I can build the rest of the car strong enough around Dangerous Dave's gearbox to compliment his work.
We have a Queensland Eureka mini-meet this Saturday at the Grande Park at Grande Ave. in Springfeild Lakes starting at 12noon. I'm madly trying to get ready for that. If anyone wants to see 2 or 3 very different VW's please come along and share a sausage at the BBQ.
We have a Ford 2ltr Turbo and a Turbo WRX powered units along with mine. Family day for all.
We don't get out very often so it's a good chance to see them up close.
Dean
0402 327 383
sinecure 路
Going to try and be there for sure!
Gunna 路
Love to see you there. We should have 4 Eureka's there I think. Plus some crazy car nutters. If your coming along be prepared for an afternoon of total Eurekaism from all.
Sorry, no pic's atm but everything is in well enough to take it for a gentle ride around the block tomorrow.馃槉
sinecure 路
Still on in the rain?
Craig Torrens 路
Good to see the K Bar kit arrived ok..................did it fit under the tank ?
Gunna 路
sinecure wrote:Still on in the rain?
Certainly was.
Ended up at my place.
5 X Eureka's in all with a few support staff. Great day.
But public apology for loosing Sinecure and family when going from park to house. Sorry, phone was stuffed, looked all over the net for your details etc. Please call me when you see this.
Dean.
0402 327 383
Gunna 路
Craig Torrens wrote:Good to see the K Bar kit arrived ok..................did it fit under the tank ?
No.
But it's making a great support brace for that as well as the yoke frame.LOL
New custom petrol tank in the wind whenever I have to pull all the stuff out again.
For anyone considering using this kit from Craig, 10 out of 10. Thanks to Craig.
PS There'll be a few orders from the Eureka guys over the next few months from tehe Queensland gang and the Nationals are on in Coffs in October so maybe some interest from them.
sinecure 路
Got some great pics, but having bigpond probs. Will upload ASAP.
sinecure 路
Teaser...
Gunna 路
You can be my photographer any day Sinecure馃槑.
Thanks heaps.
You, your family and the Saber are most welcomed to our next meet in Gympie in August sometime (TBA).
Hope you enjoyed the day.
In fact any V-dubbers would be welcomed.
Thanks to all who helped get the Eureka back on the road. It's exactly what I wanted.
Gunna 路
A letter to Dave:::
Hi Dave,
Yep it's all in but a long way from "quartermileable". But alas it's driveable.
I can't fit the rear gearbox brace in as the fuel tank outlet is only millimeters away from that area so it's either a custom tank or some brutal hammer work. The later is a good choice in the short term.
Also the exhaust outlet of the turbo ran straight into the yoke brace on the passenger side so there's a new set of pipes on the list as well. I'll contact aaron about all that when the time comes.
The clutch pressure is miles better than that stupid short arm setup. Although I'm still learning how to drive a Eureka again. Give me a week or so.
The gears are an excellent ratio but I haven't even thought about pushing rpm changes yet. But how and what they mean for the 1/4 mile is yet to be known.
It's all much noisier than before but I'm sure all that is to do the almost solid mounts and bracings. It is very noisy when backing off so I'll head down your way soon and take you for a quick drive around and see what you think (if your game to get into a Eureka??).
Need to double check. What amount of gear oil should go into the box after rebuild? And how much will go into the rubber boots on the axles. Remember I'm thick as ice cream so use easy words.
Many thanks,
Dean
sinecure 路
These are all sub 500K images of 4MB+ pics, willl post links to the real shots and vid, but for all those involved or interested, I have a CD for you - just pm. All credit must go to the missus for the setup of the DSLR. She says the locale was excellent, and with a better prep setup these shots would be AWESOME.
Gunna 路
"..............would be AWESOME!!!"??????馃槒
Mmmmm, must see.
Gunna 路
Well I spent today debugging the Haltec and some of the sensors.
Fistly I needed a serial port to usb port adaptor. Off to Hardly Normally.
Then download the software from Haltec.com.au.
Plugged everything in. No go.
Changed the Comm port to #1 and rest the port prformance from 100% back to 25% (older hardware in the Haltec).
Then we had comms to the ECU. Excellent!!
First thing I noticed is that the Throttle Position read 0% regardless of the pedal position.
Mmmmm maybe a stuffed TPS sensor. Metered it out and it seemed all good.
Checked the input voltages from the ECU. +5volts and earth and a little voltage on the signal wire. All good so far.
Went into the software and calibrated the min and max settings for the TPS. Still nothing.
Turned on the TPS input in the software. Now it works!!!
Adjusted the TPS mounting bracket to have full range of movement .
Took Eureka for a run.
Arrive home and go upstairs to change underware.馃お
Hell it goes!!!!!!!!! At least compared to what I'm used to.馃ゲ
Getting close to a Wednesday night run at Willowbank soon.
Gunna 路
Question to those who would know.........What is redline for a bog stock 12a turbo??
colonel mustard 路
well... depends on the age of the endine. if its like 300 000km 20 year on stock... (i doubt..) not too high....
having said that, it was designed to be rev'd. hit Aaron up with a PM and ask him. he is a slight expert in my book.
Gunna 路
colonel mustard wrote:well... depends on the age of the endine. if its like 300 000km 20 year on stock... (i doubt..) not too high....
having said that, it was designed to be rev'd. hit Aaron up with a PM and ask him. he is a slight expert in my book.
I think you doubted correctly.
It came from an import motor from a USA RX7 (so I was told, I have no idea). Never been touched by the look of it other than having the Haltech attached to it. Goodness knows were it came from, or how old it is, or how many k's on it.馃ゲ
colonel mustard 路
but you're prepared to ave to rebuild it though, right... cause thats how rotors work... ou rebuild them :P
Joking, maybe jump on some rx7 forums or something. 12aturbo would be like a series 2 or 3 rx7.... which im my eyes puts it somewere early to mid 80's. and if its original, your sitting on a time bomb. the good news is, there is potential for more power! 馃檪
Good luck with it mate. very interesting car 馃檪
Gunna 路
Does anyone know if the test and tune at Willowbank would be suitable to go to on the 23June?
I'll have my L plates on. lol
FROSTY 路
Hi There, yep use the link for all the dates and details.
Thanks for the link Frosty.
Some time ago a bunch of VWer's were heading out and someone advised it was going to busier than normal.
I was wondering if the 23rd was going to be the same. But it's after the winternationals will be done and dusted so I was hoping it would be kinda quiet.
colonel mustard 路
I guess you could just wait a bit and make a thread on here asking people what date would be suitable, and you might get 5-6 cars to go?
FROSTY 路
You never know how bussy it will be until your there, ( even on a bussy night you can get at least 3 runs)
Gunna 路
FROSTY wrote:You never know how bussy it will be until your there, ( even on a bussy night you can get at least 3 runs)
Thanks again for the heads up Frosty. Hopefuly the 23rd will be a good day out.
LOL. Now I just have to move the seat back or down (or both), to fit in with a helmet on. Tried it this arvo and I definately don't fit in. I have another driver who does, just. Not like you dakdak boys who have enough space to swing a long cat around.馃槉
FROSTY 路
When you decide to go make a post you never know who will turn up.
FROSTY 路
is it that tight.....you can't fit in with a helmet on?
Gunna 路
FROSTY wrote:is it that tight.....you can't fit in with a helmet on?
No.
At least...not yet.
Gunna 路
Car up for sale on ebay if anyone is interested. Just do a search for Purvis Eureka.