Im new to VW's and am looking at purchasing a late 55 ova on ebay. It is through a dealership in Bisbane and wanting to know the history of the vehicle. It's two tone Black and red sides and won a few trophies. The engine number has AD prefixes meaning it's a 70's 1600 but have been told that it's a 1200 36hp. Still has 12v. He is asking for $17995.
it says the item has been removed or is unavaliable
lawrence ·
Yeah for some reason the link through the forum shows it as removed.
If you go into ebay (not voa link) you will see it listed. Search "vw 1955"
Regards
Lawrence
Joel ·
typical dealers with NFI about old cars
its a 56 with peashooter exhaust like that and its a 36hp 1200 engine in it, might be original but highly doubtfull but its definately not the AD 1600 listed in the specs
interestingly theyve got a 12volt genny to fit the old 36hp block
can anyone tell if thats a real hazet kit?
doesnt look right
Im getting pics sent from a pre purchase inspection in Brisbane.
No log books just the manufacturers user manual.
Lawrence
Sides ·
Hey funny coincidence - I just replied to an e-mail from you Lawrence about this car about half an hour ago !!!
😉
On the peashooters... info I have says the single exhaust ended in 1954... anyone know for sure ???
Engine wise - generator like Joel said appears to be 12V, carb and intake manifold looks later, and the Bosch 009 dizzy which is a common aftermarket mod. The engine would have to have been rebuilt, but kinda doubt it's any larger than 1200cc simple cos most of the later engine internals won't suit that case/block.
Don't think it's a genuine Hazet... shape looks wrong, and has definitely been refinished at some point... or it's plastic...
lawrence ·
Thanks for providing the ebay link Joel
The mecahnic that did the inspection says it's a 6 volt????
I asked him to take as many images as he could. It comes with a tool kit but is brand new so hence must be after market cos I heard they are worth big $$$$$
Hasn't had one offer on ebay with 7000 hits. I think it has been for sale since November 09....I through a price at him and he got all cranky and sounds arrogant. I love the look of the car and am tempted to put a deposit on it but thought I would investigate a bit more on this forum.
Lawrence
VDUBXTC ·
According to a previous owner it had a a 1600tp motor in it And full detailed documentation of the restoration including photo's.
Looks to have had a bit of a make over since it was last for sale in the ACT, with a correct model engine being put back in it and newly trimmed seats.
check the links below. It's been for sale for a long time now, and seems to keep jumping to a new owner and popping back up on the market for sale
Just wish it was privately listed as Id be more comfortable with being able to chat with a genuine seller as this dealer keeps saying "mate it's a multiple trophy winner"
lawrence ·
Jace,
Nah must be a different one. the one on ebay has vinyl seats and brownish carpet on inside....
Do u rekon $18000 is too steep?
lawrence ·
I should have paid u to go check it out for me......I just can't understand the "AD" prefix on the engine number
Sides ·
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a different one to that one from Canberra... does have a very similar look tho.
Either that or it's been done over again in the meantime... stance, interior, indicators, radio, gravel guards, wheels, hub caps, engine, exhaust, bumpers, wipers... that's a lot of changes....
VDUBXTC ·
Naa. Same car i bet.
Interior looks brand new which probably went in from the previous owner.
If you look at the pic's from the early adds, you will see the bottom of the Gauge near the steering columb. Also the rear blinkers are still the same. Arial is still in the same place.
I can see differences, but they all look freshly done.
ian.mezz ·
not my cup of tea a bit slow😂
if it has had a body off resto and everything has been renewed or reconditioned maybe worth that money.😊
vw54 ·
it has a 40hp genny fitted 6V
VDUBXTC ·
lawrence wrote:I should have paid u to go check it out for me......I just can't understand the "AD" prefix on the engine number
I can go have a look at it on Tuesday if you would like me to? It's not to far from me. But i do know the place it is for sale at and he is a very arrogant bloke.
Had a Hot pink 60's bug in there for $10k , was tidy, but not worth the $10k. He wasn't open to offers
lawrence ·
In 2002 it won an award in at a show in QLD and was exacatly the way it is now roof racks and all
Im just wondering....chassis number will confirm it
ian.mezz ·
no good buying a car like that if you are going to change/modify things
Craig Torrens ·
vw54 wrote:it has a 40hp genny fitted 6V
put your glasses on Dave..........I think you will find its a 12v genny.!
lawrence ·
Jace
That would be so grateful if u could pop in😎😎😎😎😎
I want to know if the heater channels condition and if there is any rust in the typical VW areas.....does the radio work 12 or 6 volt and the engine number.
I absolutely love the look of it but am just unable to get out of sydney to look at it myself...
Again if you can check it out id be very appreciative
Regards
Lawrence
VDUBXTC ·
If that interior was new in 2002 i'll eat my hat. If it is, then it hasn't been used since, or plastic was put down and little white gloves were worn 😂
lawrence ·
Im just wondering what it's worth.....
I was able to drop it to $17500...I offered him $16000 over the phone and he said naaaaaahh!!!! $17500
needs a gee up this bloke.....lololo
lawrence ·
only found external photo of when it won best paint and body in 2002.....What I am saying is that looking at it on ebay now looks the same as it did externally in 2002....ie stone guard protectors etc.
Craig Torrens ·
vw54 wrote:its a 40hp 6V genny with a big pully
Um, the pulley is the same size as the genny housing,which tells me its 12volt..............if it was a 6volt genny then the pulley would look larger compared to the genny housing.
Unless there is a 6 volt genny that has a pulley the same size as its housing , but I've NEVER seen that before !!!
Anyway....
VDUBXTC ·
Ok. Could be then.❓ Has to be an evil twin then :
I will go have a look at it on Tuesday for you. see if it is 12 or 6volt. see if i can have a bit of a sticky at the channels and front firewall etc
Craig Torrens ·
If that's what you're after (the look etc) you wont be able to build one for that price.👍
vw54 ·
yeah looks like a 12V now i have blowen the pic up
wonder why it has WA redgo and being sold in QLD ????
VDUBXTC ·
your right. It's not the same car.
VDUBXTC ·
Sic habbit i have of collecting old vw classified adds. 😂🙅
NOTE> THAT THESE PICS ARE NOT CURRENT, SO PLEASE DON'T RING THE PH NUMBERS: no:
Sides ·
vw54 wrote:wonder why it has WA redgo and being sold in QLD ????
My guess would be cost.
Apparently WA is the cheapest place in Aus to have a car registered... no yearly inspections just like Qld, but their rates are cheaper... something to do with lower population and subsidies or some guff like that.
A few guys with work have moved to Brissie from Perth... they kept their cars on WA plates as long as possible purely for the cost reason.
lawrence ·
LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG thats it!!!!
Thanks...you legend.....
Lawrence
lawrence ·
looks like it was for sale twice...Or the price was revised cos the phone numbers are the same....
So I guess the price is about right that dealer is asking for....
coletrickle ·
Just a side note there was a black and red oval in qld when i worked at a vw wrecker it was a very nice restored car except 4 the late model apron and boot lid(1968 and up)B careful there are some real shiny shit boxs out there!Personally I'd rather have an OG car with charracter than some shiny car with all the bells and whistles.
shaihulud ·
Hi Lawrence.
I told you that you would get a lot of help from this forum.
Let us all know what happens in the end.
Richard ( WA VW Club.)
VDUBXTC ·
Looks like another twin use to be in Victoria aswell😀
vw54 ·
what year was that in VICTORIA ??
volumex ·
The car is about 2 km from here. It is a 56 model. (The single exhausts ended in July 1955 - so 1955 year model cars have single exhausts also.)
I have had a look at it and it is a nice enough car - but in my opinion he wants way too much for it.
lawrence ·
Is this beetle for sale still?
Regards
lawrence
toplessbug ·
volumex wrote:I have had a look at it and it is a nice enough car - but in my opinion he wants way too much for it.
try to rebuild one to that standard and let me know the actual cost,let alone having to pay anybody to do any work 🙅
Calcool ·
This car is being sold by Undercover Cars in Capalaba/Birkdale in QLD.
It is a 36 HP 1100cc Motor with an integral Generator stand to the engine case and it is a 12 volt generator!
I have looked at the car my self and it is pretty clean, and you could not build it for that price unless you were Andrew Dodd or Boris and able to do most of the work yourself, but even rust, paint and trim will set you back that much.
It may not be my cup of tea either, but it is the real deal and ask anyone with a fully restored Oval what they are worth or what they would want for it, you are pretty much on the money.
I do not work for these guys, but live around the corner and would love to see it go to a good home.
Cheers,
David
Newt ·
If it has AD on the license, does that mean the new engine hasnt been over the pit?
Newt
volumex ·
toplessbug wrote:try to rebuild one to that standard and let me know the actual cost,let alone having to pay anybody to do any work 🙅
It's a 56. If it was a 54/55 then it might be worth it to someone. There is not many cars that you can restore and then sell and cover the cost of the restoration. From what I have seen, cars generally recover around 50% of the resto cost. A black 54 sold 18/24?? months ago in quite good original condition for $12k IIRC.
If it was such a good buy, then why hasn't it sold in the 12+ months it has been sitting there?
hellbugged ·
yeah looks nice, but i'd put my $$ here........go, stop and handle better
If you are asking about the Vic one? NO. thats a very old add.
lawrence ·
Calcool,
The dealer says it's a 1200 and im still confused about the "AD" prefix on the engine number.
Im still waiting on the pre inspection form mechanic in Brisbane and would like to know if the body was clean and had no rust in those hidden areas. He said it was very clean but know that heater channels can be nasty.
Lawrence
Sides ·
hellbugged wrote:yeah looks nice, but i'd put my $$ here........go, stop and handle better
I like 'em stock or quick... never really gone for the "pretty but slow"... but that blue one should be pretty quick, and it ain't half bad on the eyes either !!!
👍
hellbugged ·
No interest in the one i've linked there Lawrence?
lawrence ·
Is an 1100 36hp??
Read on specs that a 1200 is a 36hp.
lawrence ·
Calcool,
So the generator case must have the AD prefix meaning it's from a later model VW (i think around 71').
lawrence ·
The sky blue one has been modified. I like the original looking oval....just that im very confused with the 36hp with 1100 and 1200's.
And also the AD prefix has me stumped....
Im crossing over from the ford holden brigade and are a VW first. Always admired the ovals and looking at getting one.
Sides ·
Yeah - fair enuff - each to their own, but it's still a Volksy so all good !!! They've both been modified btw... the red and black is very "showy" compared to stock, especially in the engine bay... glad I don't have to try keeping it clean.
On the engines, well yeah - you're talkin over 50 years of confusion and story telling !!!
Basically tho, an 1100cc is as rare as rockin horse doo doo. They came in 1953 and earlier cars... basically only splits and VERY early ovals... for some good info ...click here.... VW's weren't even being officially imported into Australia then, so there'd be very few in the country.
There are essentially two different 1200cc engines... the 36hp which has the generator stand as part of the crank case, and the later 1200 40hp. 40hp motors share a lot of parts in common with 1300, 1500 and 1600 motors, and it's very easy to pick between a 36hp and a 40hp as they use a totally different crank case. The most noticable difference is the fuel pump sits between the dizzy and the generator, generator stand is a separate bolt on part etc...
If you want a stock'ish Oval, then basically it should have a 36hp engine in it unless it's a VERY early oval. No 36hp engine should have an AD prefix, unless as I think said before it's been dodgily restamped.
I'll see if I can find some decent pics of the differences between a 36hp and a 1300/1500/1600 engine for ya.
Sides ·
lawrence wrote:Im crossing over from the ford holden brigade and are a VW first. Always admired the ovals and looking at getting one.
btw - what's the ford holden brigade... even in a Volksy family, the way I was brought up you're either Ford or Holden !!!
😂
Sides ·
OK - pics as promised:
First is a pretty much stock 36hp engine... you can see how similar it is to what's in the red and black oval, but also a few differences as already noted.
Second is a pretty stock looking 40hp engine, compolete with 6V generator on it. Totally different to the 36hp, and at least appearance wise only varies from 1300, 1500 and 1600 engines in detail things like generator size, carbs, manifolds.
Also a word of warning... some people use the shape of the fan shroud to tell the engines apart... cos the 36hp is smoother and almost a semi circle. That's NOT a way to do it, as it's very common to throw a 36hp shroud on almost any type/size of engine for "the look".
rose ·
I recommend keep on looking as something a lot nicer will come along. I remember this one.
I like 'em stock or quick... never really gone for the "pretty but slow"... but that blue one should be pretty quick, and it ain't half bad on the eyes either !!!
👍
rose ·
🤪 restoration to original specifications 🤪 I don't think they had nice shinny running boards in 1955 ?? 😂😂
lawrence ·
Dave,
Ok thanks for the images and information. I'll let you know about the AD prefix issue.
I had Mk2 cortinas, escort then just sold an EH premier yesterday and am in the market for an oval...ie the ford holden brigade lolol
That stock 36hp engine bay looks awesome. The one Im looking at has all the looks I want but the engine bay has been killed with all the chrome and if purchase would take it back to stock, but would cost more $$$$....Im just thinking bout the engine number thing I need to confirm by my inspector/mechanic hopefully tomorrow.
anyway I appreciate all your comments and help....top site/forum
Sides ·
Yeah, cool - no worries Lawrence. I'm VW first and Holden second, so couldn't resist a possible dig at a Ford fan...
😉
Getting that red and black oval's engine bay back to stock isn't necessarily a difficult or expensive thing to do:
- tar boards to replace the chrome louvered cover
- some good quality black spray paint for the tinware, and gray for the intake manifold... or powder coating of course
- 6V generator, just get it rewound to be 12V
- non-chrome air cleaner and pulleys I'm sure can be found pretty easily - see 'em quite often at swap meets, and even the decals are available
The only tricky thing would be getting the correct carb and dizzy in good working condition... they do crop up from time to time tho, and even easier if you're happy to order in from the US.
Joels72Lowlight ·
I would personally take the blue one with the pobjoy engine 😀
lawrence ·
Yeah I thought of doing that...apart form that the car looks beaut....And have been told that it's a slow vintage market at the moment.
VDU.88A ·
This one was in VWMA issue 13 feb07
Probably no longer available but you never know your luck was in VIC
lawrence ·
Thats alot less than the one on ebay even being a few years old.... but you really have to look at them both in the flesh before comparing prices........
Joel ·
lawrence wrote:The sky blue one has been modified. I like the original looking oval....just that im very confused with the 36hp with 1100 and 1200's.
And also the AD prefix has me stumped....
its probably just had a 1600 Sbug engine in it in a past life and the rego papers havent been changed
after 54 years its probbably had more than 1 engine
old 36hp 1200 as sweet as they are arent exactly ultra mileage engines
from memory they dont have replaceable cam bearings so once thats worn theyre usually junked
lawrence ·
So what would an overhauled engine cost???
Ive seen many with 1600's put in them and would perform alot better...Just depend s your usage and expectations vintage/original versus daily driver/performance
57oval ·
Joel wrote:
lawrence wrote:The sky blue one has been modified. I like the original looking oval....just that im very confused with the 36hp with 1100 and 1200's.
And also the AD prefix has me stumped....
its probably just had a 1600 Sbug engine in it in a past life and the rego papers havent been changed
after 54 years its probbably had more than 1 engine
old 36hp 1200 as sweet as they are arent exactly ultra mileage engines
from memory they dont have replaceable cam bearings so once thats worn theyre usually junked
My oval is still running the original engine, now with twin 28pics
Joel ·
lawrence wrote:So what would an overhauled engine cost???
Ive seen many with 1600's put in them and would perform alot better...Just depend s your usage and expectations vintage/original versus daily driver/performance
for a 36hp? i hate to think
i was at Al from stokers sidings place a few weeks back and he has a customers '59 in the back yard for a rebuild
it had taken him months to track down all the parts he needed
for a showpony/weekend toy a 36hp is great
they run like clockwork but for anything driven regularly, a fully loaded school bus would overtake one going up hills, which is why theres usually something bigger in there
lawrence ·
yeah for me I have a fleet car and an oval VW would be my second, weekend or fun car...
VDUBXTC ·
sorry about the Quality of the pics Lawrence. Had to use an old camera. The mrs has relocated our good one 😀
VDUBXTC ·
VDUBXTC ·
VDUBXTC ·
As i said to you on the phone. maybe $15K for it, not worth the $18K price tag. I couldn't find the roof rack or the D sign anywhere for it either.
You can't see it in the pic's, but it has 4 large chips out of the bonnet with touch up paint on them. there is a mark on the roof near the rain gutter above the drivers door where it looks like a buffer has been pushed to hard and the clear has been burnt. It runs smooth and has been a driver not a trailer queen 😀
Sides ·
Looks like you've had a pretty thorough look over it there Jace - good stuff !!!
👍
A new one for the list of not-quite-rights... should be a split case trans not a tunnel trans.
Curious on the two front inner guard pics... almost looks like there's no pan to body seal there, or is it just an optical illusion ???
lawrence ·
gee thanks Jace....So much different in the "dealer pretty pictures" ay?. You have saved me alot of heartache.
I rang the dealer this arvo and said I wouldn't even put in an offer, he grumbled and he just hung up....
I'll just wait and keep an eye out for another oval at club meets etc. Those images u took really told another story.
Regards
Lawrence
VDUBXTC ·
Sides wrote:Curious on the two front inner guard pics... almost looks like there's no pan to body seal there, or is it just an optical illusion ???
There is a a rubber there, But it's probably the oldest rubber on the car. Doesn't look like the body has been taken off the pan for the respray. Could be wrong, but it was pretty dead. (the rubber that is )😂
Is anyone clued up on chassis numbers?
I'm curious to know if it is the correct floor pan for it? I thought it was the wrong G-Box.
VDUBXTC ·
lawrence wrote:gee thanks Jace....So much different in the "dealer pretty pictures" ay?. You have saved me alot of heartache.
I rang the dealer this arvo and said I wouldn't even put in an offer, he grumbled and he just hung up....
I'll just wait and keep an eye out for another oval at club meets etc. Those images u took really told another story.
Regards
Lawrence
Always happy to help someone save a $$$.
I looked at a few of his other cars there. All much the same story. over priced for what they are.
VDUBXTC ·
Does anyone know what is supose to be where these marks are under the rear guards. It's the same on both sides.
rose ·
tell him he's dreaming after seeing those pics
Sides ·
Looks like where the lower body to pan mount should be, you know going into the shock tower... right shape outline for where the double up piece goes onto the body
Didn't think Oval's had those lower mounts tho... just the one further up near where the shock actually mounts... and the lower mount came in '59 I think. Kinda makes sense since you can see in the pic there's nothing for a mount there to bolt into. Looks like an Oval pan to me... see how spindly and straight the frame horns and torsion housing looks compared to a "normal" bug.
That mounting thing is weird tho... really suggests a body and pan mismatch.... almost like maybe it used to sit on a later pan, but has since been put back on the correct one after the last repaint.
Sides ·
Chassis number comes out as a '56....
1956 (1 Jan 56 to 31 Dec 56)
Chassis 1,060,930 - 1,394,119
Engine 1,277,347 - 1,678,209
Engine number comes out as a '58 (tho looks like a restamp to me)
1958 (1 Jan 58 - 31 Dec 58)
Chassis 1,774,681 - 2,226,206
Engine 2,156,322 - 2,721,313
lawrence ·
yeah was dodgy in the end.....what about under the bonnet. Must have been full of bog...
and the radio didn't work, log books weren't there either as advertisement said the car came with log books...
The mechanic that checked it out said it was the " most unbelievable Oval he had ever seen"...and he charged me $110...for what????
vw54 ·
and the radio didn't work, log books weren't there either as advertisement said the car came with log books...
log books bullshit
he must have been polishing his white shoes what crap
thye didnt have logbooks in 55
Sides ·
Yeah, tough one hey Lawrence... better to be eyes open tho obviously. Mechanics - no comment.
😉
Dave you sure about no log books in 55 ??? Dad always told me with his 59 (that he bought new) getting it serviced there was a book they stamped... that was with Lannock Motors in Sydney, who was the main VW dealer at the time. He thought it was really odd, as at the time non-VW mechanics didn't want a bar of servicing a Volksy anyway !!!
VDUBXTC ·
lawrence wrote:yeah was dodgy in the end.....what about under the bonnet. Must have been full of bog...
and the radio didn't work, log books weren't there either as advertisement said the car came with log books...
The mechanic that checked it out said it was the " most unbelievable Oval he had ever seen"...and he charged me $110...for what????
Sorry dude. But the guy that was there didn't even know where the battery was. was just taking random pic's of it and telling me he new all about VW's. He's done a few lately 😀
He asked me if i thought it was value for money.
matberry ·
Those heater channels have been replaced looking at the carpet retaining channel at the door jamb and lower hinge h/ware .... ???
VDUBXTC ·
matberry wrote:Those heater channels have been replaced looking at the carpet retaining channel at the door jamb and lower hinge h/ware .... ???
It's covered in that black chassis stuff. hard to get an idea if that had been played with or not..
Have to admit the bottom of the door jambs looked like the most dodgy part on the car.
vw54 ·
those bolt holes on the rear inner guards were probally for rear seat belts
great pics well done on the inspection the wonders of the net
"" Dave you sure about no log books in 55 ??? "" yeah handbooks instructional manual
but carnt remmeber seeing actual service books until later in the 50s maybe they did have them
vw54 ·
Forgot to say this car reminds me of one built by john & Laurie Kuljis from Melbourne in the early 90s or so
Anyone remember that car it was the same colour scheme
lawrence ·
This site should do VW road worthy certificates lolol...im serious you guys are great
I'll just hold on and wait for something better to come along. I have up to 20g's to spend just will take some time.
Lawrence
MISS VDUB ·
As soon as i saw the car i thought to myself, that's the car i've seen advertised for years!!!
So funny reading this, considering a while ago when Bob and i lived around the corner we went in for a perve and ended up having a chat with the old guy.
We were in the kombi, and he was asking us all these questions about Volkswagens, getting our opinions, as he didn't know too much about Volkswagens. What he did know, was all wrong. He was the sort of old dude that talked facts that were wrong, but would convince you they were right. Definitely makes a great car dealer.
I'll give the old bugger credit though, he took us to the basement, and man oh man, he has some nice expensive cars of his own in there!!!!
Calcool ·
Serious about buying the car, then get on a Virgin Flight and go and have a look.
I would say the rego papers don't match the engine number because it used to have an AD prefix engine in it and it was swapped, I beleive the car is being sold by consignment, so ask the dealer for the owners details and you may just find out more. If you are not willing or able to do the work yourself, you are not going to get what you want for $20K.
If you do come up give me a call and I will meet you there to give some advice.
Cheers,
David
0434 58 22 64
lawrence ·
Decided not to buy after those images sent through from Jace.
I'll just keep looking any yeah if one comes up try get there myself.
Regards
Lawrence
VDUBXTC ·
vw54 wrote:Forgot to say this car reminds me of one built by john & Laurie Kuljis from Melbourne in the early 90s or so
Anyone remember that car it was the same colour scheme
Was it any of these Dave?
67panel ·
If it mattered to you, for that year it should be rubber floor mats and rubber on the hump down the middle of the car. Only carpert originally was at the side channel near door bottoms and into front area behind pedals etc. and on passenger side. Rear was rubber mats also. The mats were held in with a cirlce hole stamped in them fitting over a lug in the floor so they didn't move.
