Who owns this Black (blue) Bug?

sounds like an fk87 with 1.4's and ported oval port heads 👍..........compression ratio in the high 10's maybe....say a 10.97:1 !!! 🤓

😉........it's not black Dave, it's blue..........motor sounds like it was built by some one who knows stuff about STUFF tho hey!

thats Dave Siddery ( spell ) from VWDCQ ???

hes been to the drags at Warwick ?? pretty sure

That was yesterday.... photos.. soon. (later in the week...)

Here's the motor !

Wow that grape vine sure is accurate!

old news 😉 !

http://www.mgccq.org.au/20100417%20Hillclimb%20OPR.pdf

Although he has gone faster in the past, so some more work will be needed yet 😂

hellbugged wrote:😉........it's not black Dave, it's blue..........motor sounds like it was built by some one who knows stuff about STUFF tho hey!

Ah, yes.
Midnight blue.
Be good to see how it goes after dyno,
and perhaps with some bigger carbs,(44s now) or throttle bodies.

vw54 wrote:thats Dave Siddery ( spell ) from VWDCQ ???

hes been to the drags at Warwick ?? pretty sure

you dont say? 😂

OK, that does it - I'm DEFINITELY getting a sticker made up for the rear window... "I'm BLUE dammit !!!"

😂

But yeah - first real outing for the new combo over the weekend, and it's just awesome. Totally changed how the car is to drive - really livened her up. The speed I have coming into the loops now will take a bit of getting used to... not used to having to back off let alone brake there, so I was being pretty conservative, but yeah - she's a LOT of fun...

😀

looks good on the track

disappointed you didnt do something interesting like the rest that either ended up not stopping & being buried in the nuts or understeering like a demon & going into the middle clearing after the 1st loop, was an entertaining day on sunday 😀

how big does the sticker have to be? got some blue sparky tape that could do the job 😂

Sounds good up the revs dude... Not long till I drive mine. Will have to compare notes😏

dangerous wrote:

hellbugged wrote:😉........it's not black Dave, it's blue..........motor sounds like it was built by some one who knows stuff about STUFF tho hey!

Ah, yes.
Midnight blue.
Be good to see how it goes after dyno,
and perhaps with some bigger carbs,(44s now) or throttle bodies.

Not to sure that bigger carbs is going to make it happy coming out of the corners, sounds like its struggling a bit as it is...........sounds good once the revs pickup though.

When is it going to the Dyno ? and Drags ? !

Sounding good Dave!
Are you still taking it a little easy on the revs or not?
So how did that compare time wise?

Craig Torrens wrote:

dangerous wrote:

hellbugged wrote:😉........it's not black Dave, it's blue..........motor sounds like it was built by some one who knows stuff about STUFF tho hey!

Ah, yes.
Midnight blue.
Be good to see how it goes after dyno,
and perhaps with some bigger carbs,(44s now) or throttle bodies.

Not to sure that bigger carbs is going to make it happy coming out of the corners, sounds like its struggling a bit as it is...........sounds good once the revs pickup though.

When is it going to the Dyno ? and Drags ? !

Still less than 7000 up high,
so once he revs it out a tad more,
it may be a bit more lively on the turns.(as long as it is above 4100)
More seat time,
and confimation of safe mixtures will be nice.(dyno)

Yup - you're right Craig in that it does struggle a bit out of the corners... on that run through the hairpin dropped just below 4000 rpm. If I was driving it properly, well the gearing I have it should have been a smidge over 4200 so right in the sweet spot. Accel pump don't think is spot on either.

Also I'm in the final stages of accumulating bits for the EFI conversion... won't get fitted for a few months yet, but once it is can bring the second set of plugs online, which should help some.

Like dangerous says tho... more seat time is a big thing, since it's massively different to what I've been used to.... big brakes are great unless you get on them too early !!!

😉

Dyno is next step... hopefully get the booking sorted today. Drags... depending on work schedule likely go to a T&T early May.

Good stuff 👍

Although Dave Butler has openly said that Twin Plugs are of no advantage 🙅....so I'm not sure why he would let you do that 🤪😂😂

wish i could watch it but im at work.👎

Heh heh - never miss a chance to stir, hey Craigy !!!

😂

Once the EFI is done I'm hoping to prove the twin plugs one way or the other... it'll be an interesting exercise methinks, and I always love the chance to learn stuff...

👍

Craig Torrens wrote:Good stuff 👍

Although Dave Butler has openly said that Twin Plugs are of no advantage 🙅....so I'm not sure why he would let you do that 🤪😂😂

When did I say that?
Worth all that effort?
...we'll see.
Stirer!

thats ALL he does

dangerous wrote:

Craig Torrens wrote:Good stuff 👍

Although Dave Butler has openly said that Twin Plugs are of no advantage 🙅....so I'm not sure why he would let you do that 🤪😂😂

When did I say that?
Worth all that effort?
...we'll see.
Stirer!

You said it here Dave........forgotten had you !!! 😂

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=38212#pid362024

You love a bit of a stir don't you Craig. Have you ever run twin plug setups? Why not? - not trusting stand engines so much??? :P

Craig Torrens wrote:

dangerous wrote:

Craig Torrens wrote:Good stuff 👍

Although Dave Butler has openly said that Twin Plugs are of no advantage 🙅....so I'm not sure why he would let you do that 🤪😂😂

When did I say that?
Worth all that effort?
...we'll see.
Stirer!

You said it here Dave........forgotten had you !!! 😂

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=38212#pid362024

😂You'd better read that whole post before getting too excited.😂

I do have opinions on a lot of stuff,
and time can change many things, even opinions,
if only slightly. (see most recent posts on that topic)

Although my opinions on benefits of cryo treatment being magic beans remain!

NOW, back to Daves Black car,(blue😂).

...i coulda sworn it was dark purple 😂

isnt it black???? All i know is it has porky wheels and a big 70 on the side....

powered by a subaru ?

thanks for the laugh😂

Nice work Dave, who owns the blue,purple black car😂

Craig Torrens wrote:isn't powered by a subaru ?

didnt sound like it..... but then, its a track car thats gets used.

Sides any updates ? track times ? Dyno sheets? Drags times?..........cmon its been a while !!!

ive seeen it, lil red line goes like... this...
........______
......./
....../
...../
..../
.../
_/

ignore the dots :P

Craig Torrens wrote:Sides any updates ? track times ? Dyno sheets? Drags times?..........cmon its been a while !!!

Yeah, I know I know - work unfortunately gets in the way at times.

But I managed to scam a day off to go dyno this week.



I'm pretty happy - engine is obviously very strong and a massive step up from the old combo. Unfortunately couldn't seem to tune out the stupidly rich area... leading theory is it's being caused by a combination of the big cam and IDF's. We knew this would happen tho - the engine has always been planned for EFI which will let us tune that area spot on. The twin plugs should also help if the theories hold true. Definitely explains the hesitation out of corners if it drops below 4000 !!!

All the same I'm going to line up some different emulsion tubes to see if might help in the interim (currently have F11's... thinking F16's or possibly F9's). Bigger vents or switching to IDA's could also help, but not really prepared to go there when the EFI is getting closer all the time.

Next track outing is Wakefield in a bit over a week... should be a lot of fun !!!

Nice work dude.
👍
It is interesting to see with the very minor differences in our engines the graphs are still pretty much identical.

Thanks for posting the results Sides........maybe put it up in the dyno sheet section.

The results seem a tad odd for the combination though.......I can understand it having the low power below 4200rpm, but it seems odd that peak power is only at 6000rpm and then slowerly drops. You have a FK87 (drag cam !!) with 1.4's so I would have thought that peak power would have been a lot higher than that, especially with compression that high as well.

Something doesn't seem right, maybe you need to look at getting some head work done to make it breathe better in the top end ??

Good to see youre enjoying it though. 😎

Yah, no probs Craig.

I know what you mean about the results. Only have 36mm vents in currently, and think that's too restrictive up top.

Heads should be plenty good enough as is I think... CNC Oval Ports to start with, which DB has put some extra work into.

The Weber vent chart I have shows 36mm only good for a bit over 6000rpm... 38mm vents would help, but to have max power at 7000 (which the cam would like) really need a 40mm vent, which means IDA's really. From what I understand the bigger vent could help with the richness down lower also... weakening the signal on the main circuit down there, causing it to run leaner.

Any carb guru's reading that care to jump in ???

😉

I wouldn't put to much faith in that chart, it's really just a guide.
However in saying that it would probably benefit from bigger venturi's or carbs.
What size are the throttle bodies your going to use for the injection?

The other thing to look at is the exhaust system, primary pipe size and length and muffler size.

bigger vents for sure dave
If you havent played with them before, do it! Can make big improvements

Hey thanks for comments guys.

The throttle bodies that will be going on are 48mm Injection Perfection jobby's (IDF pattern). Had them off the shelf and out of the box the other day... look hell big compared to what's on at the moment.

It's now a race between my temptation to play with vent changes etc. and seeing when I can get the EFI conversion done. EFI is in the lead at the moment since I've just ordered the ECU, but then again if some 38mm vents turned up, who knows...

😉

Go the bigger vents for a try Dave, if it is your car of course???

What is your exhaust?

go the vent change...easy and quick to do.

what size was Reubs injection on his motor ?

Dave, haven't you already got 38mm vents?

a box of vents here if you want me to look

Matt - yup - my car, and no reason not to play with it hey. Exhaust is one of Westi's 1 5/8" stainless merged setups with a fatboy mounted on it... bit loud, but don't think any restrictiveness issues there.

Gracey - vents that are in are 36mm. I do have some 38 vents somewhere, but they use that horizontal spray bar setup.

Craig - Reub's throttle bodies pretty sure are 48mm Injection Perfection same as mine, tho I've gone for a different ECU and ignition setup.

Damo - if you've got some 38's in that box there that'd be awesome !!!

😀

looky what i found, altho dave probably knows jeff took the pics

Yeah, Jeff's a mate of mine who was there working as finish line flaggy... supposed to be some video coming too I think.

Had 29 runs over the weekend, and Jezzi didn't miss a beat. Managed to lower my PB on each of the 3 days, and am now down to 51.53 (before the weekend was at 53.00). Consistency I'm getting with it now is brilliant... every run where I was trying was in the mid-low 52's, and quite a few of them in the mid 51's.

So yeah - I'm pretty stoked.

Bigger vents and some different emulsion tubes are on the way, service and then back to the dyno to see if can tune out the super-rich flat spot... can't wait !!!

😀😀😀

That would have been taken up near where we were last time we went to cotton. I shall now not post images as mine are rubbish. haha.


Hey Sides, in case Sti hasn't talked to you, would you be able to take those parts for my car to the meeting on wednesday... Looks like brakes/suspension will happen this saturday, in daves garage in Ippy! (see, there was a reason why I helped him get his rolling!)

colonel mustard wrote:Hey Sides, in case Sti hasn't talked to you, would you be able to take those parts for my car to the meeting on wednesday...

Nah, sorry - no can do Mustard. I'm in Perth at the moment with work, and don't get back till early Saturday morning. Can get them to him sometime after that tho no probs.

Oh. true. All good 🙂 I may try trevor and see if he has any.... otherwise, i guess I will wait a few more days. Not a prob. 🙂

Sides wrote:Yeah, Jeff's a mate of mine who was there working as finish line flaggy... supposed to be some video coming too I think.

Had 29 runs over the weekend, and Jezzi didn't miss a beat. Managed to lower my PB on each of the 3 days, and am now down to 51.53 (before the weekend was at 53.00). Consistency I'm getting with it now is brilliant... every run where I was trying was in the mid-low 52's, and quite a few of them in the mid 51's.

So yeah - I'm pretty stoked.

Bigger vents and some different emulsion tubes are on the way, service and then back to the dyno to see if can tune out the super-rich flat spot... can't wait !!!

😀😀😀

Good work Dave,
look forward to seeing some vids of the faster runs.

29 runs!?!!

Yeah, thanks DB - will link the vids when they're up.

Heh heh yup - 29 runs... kind of a running joke at Mt Cotton how I'm always up for as many runs as possible.

😉

Sat 15:45 they announced over the PA that entry to the track would be closing at 16:00. I jumped in and put 3 more runs in, so then at 15:55 gets announced "Practice is finishing in 5 minutes, so come down NOW if you want another run... but don't come down in a Volkswagen or you'll be shot".

😀😀😀

Well done Dave! Look forward to catching you at an event soon.

Good stuff Dave, PB......woo hoo, careful you don't wear ot out though, you'll be first name basis with the starter dude too I bet 😂.

Good work 🙂..... I've never raced at this track, so what times do the other hillclimb beetles do there ?

what other hillclimb beetles?

pretty sure sides is the only bug ive seen there, makes him easy to find though

STIDUB wrote:what other hillclimb beetles?

pretty sure sides is the only bug ive seen there, makes him easy to find though

Myself, Greg Ward, the Campbell and Durie beetle have all run at Mt Cotton for the QLD hillclimb championship. Greg ran at the QLD Hillclimb championship a few times in the past and Heath more recently. I ran there in 2007 and I know Greg was there last year in his bug. There is a local bloke who has run there in the past in a beetle but his name doesnt come to me at the moment.

Craig Torrens wrote:what times do the other hillclimb beetles do there?

High 47's and low/mid 48's. When I ran there last, which also happened to be one and only time I ran there I managed a 48.4 I think and Heath and Greg have been into the high 47's. I love this track. A real drivers circuit where commitment either pays off or bits you hard. Im hoping to get back to have a another go sometime soon.

I've heard of other people reportedly building another beetle but that rumour was a long time ago now ....🙅

There was a green beetle running a type IV that I saw one time at the Australian titles. He was in the 40's from memory.
Dave knows who I am talking about but I can't remember the name.

vassy66T1 wrote:I've heard of other people reportedly building another beetle but that rumour was a long time ago now ....🙅

I wonder if that will ever eventuate??? 😂😂😂

Dave those are excellent times, you must be stocked!

For comparison, I have done I think 55/56ish in 2003 or 2004 with a stock headed 1776, stockish suspesnion and 185 street tires. But getting from 55/56 to sub 52 is a big step, and I can't think of the guys doing 47's....I was bitten though, before they upgraded the finsih line, lifted on the line and nosed the rock wall 😠 Will have to find my timeshets.

That green bug was awesome to watch, used to run a 2.7L ? type 4 as said above, and ran 17inch wheels with big brakes.....

vassy66T1 wrote:There was a green beetle running a type IV that I saw one time at the Australian titles. He was in the 40's from memory.
Dave knows who I am talking about but I can't remember the name.

Yeah - that'd be Greg Turnam. He's stupidly quick... mid 47's from memory from a 2.4 liter Type IV motor with very hi-po Motec injection system.... injectors spraying about an inch above the ram tubes !!!

My times are nowhere near quick yet... just gonna keep chipping away at it and hopefully eventually reach the standard Heath and Nathan set. Plan to have as much fun as I can along the way of course... just short of wearing the car out that is !!!

👍

Oh and yeah Matt - Andrew the starter knows me pretty well now...

😉

Thanks DB for the link. Been years since I've been to Mt Cotton.

Dave, your car sounds great, crisp as, you must be happy.

Hey thanks for that DB - for some reason my youtube subscription thingy seems to have stopped working...

😵‍💫

Cheers Matt - lots of comments at the track too about how big a difference in both sound and speed, and still nicely under the 95db limit.

Happy would be an understatement.

😀

Sounds great dude...congrats

Hey thanks Reub.

Oh and looky what arrived thru the week while I was away... bigger vents and F2 emulsion tubes.



Guess there's going to be some more dyno time coming up !!!

😉

Dave, are you chasing for peak HP or to gain better bottom and mid range ?

Mid range really - want to bring the richness around 3500-5000 under control.

Two schools of thought I've heard with that
- first is that while bigger vents mainly effect top end, they should also weaken the signal in the mid range and so lean it up some... in a way delaying the mains a bit for a given size air corrector
- second is the emulsion tubes... F11's still have a richened mid range (but a LOT less than F7's), while the F2's are leaner mid range and a bit richer higher up

So I plan to dyno with the 38 vents and F11's, then pop in the F2's and see what effect it gives.

Obviously when I get the EFI in I'll have total control, but I wouldn't mind getting as much as I can out of the IDF's first... especially since event calendar means it's likely a while before I get the EFI done.

sounds good..........I know my ragtop's 1916 liked the bigger vents, it went from 131hp up to 137hp.

Hi Dave, any updated dyno runs with the larger vents ?

Not yet unfortunately - had some stuff crop up that's kept me occupied me the last few weeks.

Hoping to get back to the dyno soon tho... and then Valla of course.

😎

Spent the morning on Leon's dyno... flexible hours is a great thing sometimes. Can't post chart just yet - scanner not working.

Verdict is that the engine definitely likes the bigger vents (now 38mm)... did I think 15 runs, max hp over that was 133.4 with the final jetting giving 132.0 hp.

So that's a 7 hp increase in max power from before, but best of all it's shifted the whole power curve to the left (ie earlier) and I have more power everywhere across the rev range.

Still couldn't get rid if the mid range richness, but did manage to reduce the power slump a lot... at it's lowest point I have 12 hp more than on the previous tune.

Suspect it would like another change up in vents or even a set of IDA's, but really... I think it's time to get the injection happening.

😀

how is the scanner not working? Don't you work in IT? Have you tried turning it on and off again?

colonel mustard wrote:how is the scanner not working? Don't you work in IT? Have you tried turning it on and off again?

Uh huh - and I've even jiggled the cable !!! 😂

Basic equation goes something like:

Old scanner + crap driver support + dodgy 32bit driver to running in a 64bit OS + recent security patch that affects loading 32bit drivers = scanner no work

🙁

Actually, here we go - iPhone to the rescue !!!

Green was old tune (36mm vents, 155 mains, 200 airs)
Red is new tune (38mm vents, 155 mains, 210 airs).

or maybe...



yeah anyway!

iphones have the best camera... :P


132 hp is getting pretty serious for a 1916... I like 🙂

when are you running at cotton again? would be sweet to come out and watch again 🙂

good result Dave. 🙂

So you stayed with the f11 emulsions, did the f2 not work that well ?

Nice HP increase Dave!

Interesting how it's actually richer in the mid range and still making more HP than before.

It will be interesting to see how the mid range changes with injection.

Looking good Dave.

Are you running out at Lleyburn this year??

Yeah, cheers guys.

Tried quite a few combinations on emulsion tubes... F11 (which are in it still), F2, F15 and F20. They all gave varying effects, but VERY minor in real terms. In theory the F2 and F15 should have helped with the mid range richness, and although they 'narrowed' the over rich area, they didn't give as good a power curve. That had us a bit stumped, so we did a few oddball things like throwing in combo's with MASSIVELY over and undersized air jets at it as a sort of sanity check. Making it richer down there didn't hurt power, and leaning it up didn't really help... conclusion was that it was the cam still, and that cos the ignition system is so strong (CDI) that the engine was just burning through it (according to Leon, that rich with a standard ignition system you'd see it stumble and carry on with the spark being quashed).

So yeah... pretty happy that have reached the limits of the IDF's at least with these vents, which was the goal really.... now just even keener to get the EFI happening.

🙂

Marcus - hope to be at Leyburn again... my pre-entry was accepted, and have put the actual entry form in... so providing they accept me again this year I'll be there with bells on !!!

👍

Running out at Leyburn this weekend... my plan is for this to be the last event I run with carb's.

The EFI conversion starts in earnest next week... so started a new thread for that at http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=85506