I'm going to upgrade the exhaust on Davids bug and will loose the heater boxes.
Has anyone successfully ran a 12 volt heater core?
Has anyone ran an oil cooler in the cabin for heating purposes?
I saw these on Ebay, I thought about mounting it under the rear seat, but it might get too hot.
Steve
Bizarre ·
Steve
Power = Volts x Amps
Do the maths
Buy yourself some big thermal underwear
1303Steve ·
Hi Barry
They are 250 Watts so it would be like running 2x 100 & 1x 55 watt lights, all the time.
Davids car has a front mounted external oil cooler, the other idea I had was getting a stock doghouse cooler, splicing it into the oil liners going to the front of the car and mounting it under the rear seat and running oil though it and blow the warm air down the heater channels, just like I did with my WBX bug only I was using water then.
Steve
barls ·
steve,
you would be better off with the oil coolers as the other one would be more effective as a electric supercharger and they dont work that well ether
waltermitty ·
Steve toughen the kid up! Mate your in Sydney not Hobart!LOL! MItchell
Bizarre ·
Steve
Go and cuddle a couple of light bulbs and see how long before you start to sweat
Yes - some energy is given off in light
Better still - sit in front of a 1kw bar radiator
That will bearly heat you up - and this is a quarter os that
And remember running the 250Watts in in addition to the headlights, wipers, indicators and break lights that you will need in the middle of winter
And you havent even turned on the doof doof yet
Your second idea is much better
Joel ·
Steve, don't waste your money on electric ones,
I looked into it to save altering my cooling system and all reports say they're good as hand warmers thats all
Being Aircooled the Same Lamborgini tractor we got here has a proper electric cab heater.
It has to have its own 70amp alternator just to get enough heat for a tractor cab
and it still barely matches a stock water heater in the other tractor.
A car one would need to be bigger again
2nd oil cooler under the rear seat is probably the best bet
there used to be a mob in the UK called snug bug who did an electric one but it used huge amounts of power
another setup also had a water jacket around the exhaust and fan/core unit under the dash
was much quicker to heat and better to control than stock heaterboxes
matara ·
Steve,
Wayne Penrose has some hi-flo heat exchangers on his website, if you can get a big id exhaust with provision for heater boxes:-
Hi-flo large pipe diameter heater boxes with weld-on flanges , to suit that high performance beetle or kombi engine . $500-00 pair
I have one of those ceramic heaters but they are only good for demisting (only just)
Alternatively these were just reviewed on Volksworld website:-
you could use a petrol heater, these were available as a option on many vw's, i think they are available new as they are used on camper vans and mobile homes, have seen quite a lot on thesamba for sale
1303Steve ·
Hi
Thanks for all the replies
Petrol heaters are in the "vintage cool" area now, so they may be a bit on the expensive side.
The system I'm getting is an A1, it has J tubes already, and I don't think it would line up with the heater boxes that Wayne is selling, the seat heaters are an idea worth looking at.
I compared the light bulbs as an energy drain, the doof doof system and the rear seat are going, just going to have 2 6 inches in the front and 2 6x9s in the back.
I like my heat as well, so I will need to toughen up as well.
It looks like the oil cooler in the back area is most likely the best solution.
I would T into the line going to the front cooler and have a tap in this line as well so that it can be shut off in summer.
I've been reading up on the use of heat from an oil cooler, on a Corvair forum, this is part of post I read
"Because oil retains heat better than water, it stands to reason, it does not GIVE UP it's heat as easily either. Thus using the oil cooler as a heater core will only contribute moderately to interior heat all because of the oil's tendency to retain the heat more than water"
I'm no scientist but I think the guy is missing the point that the aim is to heat the air passing over the cooler, not take heat out of the oil.
The heater system that I had in my old WBX bug blew the heated air through the stock heater channels, it was never an ankle burner like the stock air cooled VW heater, it was luke warm but after about 20 minutes of driving was it nice and warm inside.
Steve
funbug ·
Go for high flow heater boxes and get a different exhaust system. There are plenty of suitable exhausts. I am following that route on the engine I'm building - sourced the heater boxes from CSP
1303Steve ·
Hi
Most good performing systems have very poor ground clearance, the A 1 is good in this area, I live on the side of a cliff and I have the driveway from hell, I have sacrificial metal on the current system that regularly needs changing.
Have you bought the heater boxes from CSP yet? They are very pricey. My headers are about the same price as a pair of heater boxes.
Steve
Craig S ·
1303Steve wrote:I live on the side of a cliff and I have the driveway from hell
Amen to that. My clutch still has a quiet weep to itself when it thinks about what I did to it whilst trying to gently get the car and trailer up that first little stretch.
I reckon you should build a garage up the top and have a motorised flying fox arrangement down to the house. Then you could drop the bug even further 🙂
Craig
1303Steve ·
Hi
I can still smell your clutch now whenever the wind blows a certain way 😉
If you think the bug is low, you should see Davids Skyline, we get them both out OK but loose a few mm of steel each time.
Davids bug just catches the Kamei coming in and scrapes the exhaust collector going out
Steve
colonel mustard ·
so many stories of that driveway from hell!
68AutoBug ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi
I'm going to upgrade the exhaust on Davids bug and will loose the heater boxes.
Has anyone successfully ran a 12 volt heater core?
Has anyone ran an oil cooler in the cabin for heating purposes?
I saw these on Ebay, I thought about mounting it under the rear seat, but it might get too hot.
Steve
Hi Steve,
You can buy 12 volt hair dryers... somewhere.. lol
have seen them now & then for sale..??
them may OK for warming Your feet... ??
or an oil cooler under the rear seat sounds OK...
Just turn the fan on & off to adjust the heat...
and Yes, it doesn't matter how much heat the oil retains... lol
I see so many beetles without any heater boxes...
its something I just couldn;t live without...lol
although it does get very cold in Scone most nights and mornings during winter...
and sometimes during other seasons...
Personally, I would wait for summer before taking the heater boxes off Your Sons car...
or place two 55 watt driving lights next to His feet...
they do put out some heat...
just be a bit BRIGHT at Night.. lol
LEE
ernie norley ·
Gday all.
Years ago I used an oil cooler with a bay kombi heater fan and a housing made out of 2 alumiunium baking dishes as a heater mounted in engine bay and drew fresh air through copex tubing inlet mounted behind louvers above lid run same size copex to original body tubes this worked really well as it only put air in as needed never figured out a by pass for cooler in summer went watercooled before that
Ernie
Bizarre ·
Steve
Why not go with the custom exhaust and keep the heater boxes
For all the mucking around it will work out cheaper i reckon
Grey 57 ·
I was looking to do the same with my T34 Ghia. Heat exchangers on my 2.4 are a little rusty and fumey, so was looking at the optiions, Some of the 911 porsche guys tried the oil cooler idea, but I read on a 911 forum that it wasnt all great. Not enough engine heat when you need it. Ie when the outside temps are low.
Heat exchangers work great if everything is in good nick and the engine bay is sealed correctly.
Craig Torrens ·
tell him to drive with a hot water bottle 😁
68AutoBug ·
Bizarre wrote:Steve
Why not go with the custom exhaust and keep the heater boxes
For all the mucking around it will work out cheaper i reckon
Good Idea .. lol
LEE
mactaylor ·
i like joels idea of a custom pipe around the j pipe fill it with water attach to a small rad make sure the rad is higher than exhaust so no need for a pump then blow thru the rad with a small fan simple cheap and light. three of my favourite things
1303Steve ·
Hi
I was talking to Mike Waldron at the RAW opening last night, he was saying that in his Peach bug he used a caravan blower/heater to good effect, but he did say you need a well sealed car to make it effective.
I like the idea of blowing through the original heater channels so that heat can be put on the screen for demisting.
I've already got a 12 volt bilge pump and small radiator, they came with an intercooler I bought from LMS, so I'm 1/2 way there.
So the water filled heat exchanger would just fit around one of the J tubes I guess.
Steve
baghall ·
Keep the ideas coming guys I am also looking at ideas for heating my baja. I have twin cannons and no heater. A bit tired of using a tissue as a demister all the time and smelling exhaust fumes at times as they heater tubes and not sealed off at all.
hulbyw ·
I have also been considering a water coil/heat exchanger around J pipes. Wondering whether you would need the exchanger on both Jpipes to keep the exhaust temps even on both sides? Also wondered whether you would need some sort of steam blow off valve in case the water overheated? Maybe a coil of copper plumbing pipe could be used as a heat exchager?
bus914 ·
Don't heat exchangers also act as a heat shield to prevent head temps from rising too much?
bajachris88 ·
hulbyw wrote:Also wondered whether you would need some sort of steam blow off valve in case the water overheated?
If you have a small radiator, the cap for the intial stock application has a pressure release valve in the cap and will release at 1.1 to 1.3 bar of pressure. (good safety measure too).
This pressure release would normally go to your overflow bottle, just plump one and your set. if you use antiboil coolant then you got no worries with overheating causing a frothy/steam boil fest.
I like this idea i rekon.
68AutoBug ·
bus914 wrote:Don't heat exchangers also act as a heat shield to prevent head temps from rising too much?
Heater exchangers are strange things...
they always get very hot from the exhaust system...
in the Winter some of the cooling air is diverted to the heater boxes to push heated air into the cabin...
in the summer... heater boxes stay closed.. no air is diverted to the heater boxes... they are dormant...
Maybe using Kombi fans is a great idea... LEE
copper pipe wrapped around a j pipe would be great...
LEE
1303Steve ·
Hi
there is always a small amount of cooling air wasted through the heater box even when the heaters are turned off, there have been studies done to still have this air wasted to keep the cooling system operating correctly.
The copper pipe idea would work but it could look messy.
What I had in mind was a large section of exhaust pipe blocked at each end with a smaller section making a concave to fit tightly around the J pipe.
The temperature of the exhaust would fluctuate depending on load and engine size so the point about boiling is a very important point, being a sealed system with a radiator cap actually raises the boiling point.
Steve
mactaylor ·
didnt consider the boiling point it might be a prob but if its made well and use a good radiator/ heat exchanger it should be ok use a rust inhibitor that raises the boiling point not a ethelene based product.
matberry ·
The water/heat exchanger is a great idea. My concern is the complications of the system and I wonder if you'd need a pump to circulate the water....maybe this would always need to run therefore more current drain on the charging system, and what happens if it was to stop. Maybe with clever design it may circulate with convection only??
I always wanted to try an air system with a 2" pipe with good contact to one or both J pipes in a U shape around the engine. Air could be drawn from the cabin (where would depend on the car model but somewhere like the rear footwell comes to mind) therefore getting progresively warmer, and blown through the pipe and then routed to the stock system. Might need some thermal wrap to get things hot enough, but very doable I thought.
Joel ·
If i can find that mag I;ve got with the UK system I'll scan the article.
It just had a small heater core and fan under the dash and a golf header tank in the front
1303Steve ·
Hi
Matt, thats a great idea with the pipe around the heater box. I could use the existing fan housing outlets to blow through the pipes on the J pipe, it would just need a flap to turn off the air flow.
It maybe wouldn't be as efficient as normal heater boxes, but Davids motor is 1904 so it probably makes a bit more heat than a stocky motor.
Joel that article would make a good read.
Mac, Nulon make a coolant for race car use that doesn't contain glycol, I cant remember the name of it, so it might be better for heat transfer, I'm going to use it in the water 2 intercooler in my other bug.
Steve
PS, thanks for all the replies, were an inventive lot
bajachris88 ·
if you have a water setup, you may not need a pump. because of the temperatures endured, you could set it up to take advantage of teh convection currents.
Hot water goes from J pipes upwards to top of radiator. Cool lines go from bottom of radiator to just below j pipes.
Then it would naturally circulate 👍. Don't know if it woudl be fast enough, i'm not sure.
the pommie setup didnt have a pump, it just worked on thermosyphon effect.
the article had a chart compariosn to it and stock heaters and this one came up to temp heaps quicker
oil is very slow to heat up and in cooler conditions when heaters are needed often doesnt come up to temp anyway
1303Steve ·
Hi
I went out today in Davids bug. Its pretty cool here, did about 40 mins driving all up.
The bug has an oil cooler in the front apron, I have the oil cooler air supply partially blocked off at the moment.
It only managed to get up to about 70 Celsius on the temp gauge, I measured the temperature on the hot side of the oil cooler it was only 37 degrees.
So unless I really fang the car on a freeway I don't think I'm going to get enough heat from a cabin mounted oil cooler to do any good.
So when I get my headers I think I will make a tank out of some 3 inch exhaust pipe sliced in 1/2 with a smaller pipe to snuggle up to the J pipe a bit like this Cc.
Steve
vlad01 ·
the oil cooler idea is one I was thinking of as well for a long time. I recon it would do great on HP engines with turbo as the oil gets quite hot in them. But stock or anything mild might pose a problem :/
Camo ·
1303Steve wrote:The bug has an oil cooler in the front apron,
Steve
Why cant you make use of the oil cooler you have up front. Set up some kind of air collector behind this radiator and direct it into the cabin area. This would only work when driving forward of course so i think an inline blower would help.
You would also need to make some sort of a control so as to direct the air flowing through this oil cooler away and under the car when you dont wan the warm air coming in.
Also I think 37 degree would probably feel warm on a F'n cold day. Maybe I wrong, but just a thought.
But the cold air passing over the cooler up front is going to dissipate a heap more heat than the low flow or warm recirculating air you have in a cabin
1303Steve ·
vlad01 wrote:hey here is something that will help.
They only come in 1 1/2 and are 96 Euro ($140 au) each or 198 Euro ($290 au) in ceramic.
I'm going to 1 5/8 A 1, they have a merged collector that goes sideways, every other merged collector pokes out the back of the apron which is no good for ground clearance.
Steve
colonel mustard ·
Hey Steve,
I think some people need a driveway video... :P
funbug ·
Steve the CSP heater boxes start from 38 mm and go up to 48 mm
squizy ·
I remember driving down the snow one year in my KG at 2am, with a sleeping bag over me, balaclava, and gloves. Get the boy a heater.
1303Steve ·
Hi
I couldn't see anything other than 1.5 inch heater box on the CSP site, they did have 48 mm in J pipes.
If I use heater boxes I'm still stuck with under performing or low headers.
Squizy, you should see Rose when she's driving her Oval upto Valla, she looks likea Michelin woman.
get a j pipe and an old heater box. gut the heater box and install your choice of j pipe and re-weld the box back together.
Its another idea i had back in year 7 when I gots me a square.
matberry ·
vlad01 wrote:get a j pipe and an old heater box. gut the heater box and install your choice of j pipe and re-weld the box back together.
Its another idea i had back in year 7 when I gots me a square.
Yeah, year 7 eh?? reckon the style of exhaust he wants to use may not fit a stock shape heater box.
zayus ·
Just bought a set of 42MM CSP heater boxes, they arrived a few days ago.
cb john ·
vlad01 wrote:get a j pipe and an old heater box. gut the heater box and install your choice of j pipe and re-weld the box back together.
Its another idea i had back in year 7 when I gots me a square.
And what do you do about Al casting around stock J pipe?
Bizarre ·
Steve
Does the A1 merged header hook up with heater boxes??
I am 99% the one in the green oval that was at V Force has J tupes with the exhaust because they are different
cb john wrote:And what do you do about Al casting around stock J pipe?
Later VW heater boxes never had the aluminium casting
Mine dont
I have ceramic coated them and they give off GREAT heat
I have them flanged and am very toasty at the moment
1303Steve ·
Hi
Sorry I still cant see anything bigger on the CSP site that the 1.5.
If I'm going to loose the heater boxes, I want to get the best bang for buck I can get, no other merged systems other than the A1 have good ground clearance.
A-1 do a heater box system buts its in 1.5 inch only.
I can get a A-1 header in steel with ceramic coating for 299 USD plus shipping.
I will be using the existing muffler thats already on the car, I got it from Westy, its a dual 2 inch muffler with 180 turn at one end, a bit like the A 1 muffler.
So with a bit mucking around I can heat into the car as well.
cb john wrote:And what do you do about Al casting around stock J pipe?
Later VW heater boxes never had the aluminium casting
Mine dont
I have ceramic coated them and they give off GREAT heat
I have them flanged and am very toasty at the moment
So that could be a reason for poor heating efficiency in later bugs...
Bizarre ·
Mine work well - but i dont think i have ever had the aluminium ones
There is a NOS set at Richards and the difference in weight is like 3 times
Joel ·
must have been around 72 they dropped the alu finned heaterboxes
nothing after 73 I've owned has had them but everything before has
they weigh a heap more but work alot better although the later ones do seem to get hotter quicker, probably cause it takes time to heat up the big chunk of alu in the early ones
1303Steve ·
Hi
I see them now, the link you posted only goes to the front page, I think because it was too long try this
They would be an excellent product but not for that price.
Steve
funbug ·
Will heater boxes work with the Kafer Cup style brace that you are running?
1303Steve ·
Hi
The Kafer cup bar fits around the heater boxes OK, I needed to fit them at an angle to clear the heater boxes.
Steve
DaveCarter ·
As requested here is the driveway from hell. Thought i would get one video on the way up and one on the way down.
71-BEETLE-SEDAN ·
What if you reverse in and revrse out?
DaveCarter ·
Then i rip my extractors off and the kamei just scrapes the other way.
71-BEETLE-SEDAN ·
ah yes, instead of concrete maybe just some bits of checkerplate,
colonel mustard ·
Pretty sure you arent looking for solutions for the driveway... it was more that i just asked to see it. so thanks 🙂.
i do have a solution though.. and me and stidub discussed this quite alot... you need to sell that place. and get a flat block with a 4 spots for parking, with a hoist. solved.
DaveCarter ·
But then i would have to move out of lugarno which i would never do. ever.
71-BEETLE-SEDAN ·
So dave, is your dad doing anything bout heaters, cause i want one two
vlad01 ·
look further down this page. I found this while looking up dry sump setups.
71-BEETLE-SEDAN wrote:So dave, is your dad doing anything bout heaters, cause i want one two
Hi
vlad01, that looks like a good way out as well.
I'm waiting for my A-1s to arrive, I had a talk to Brad at Westside about making a sleeve to fit over the J tube so that I can heat some coolant and feed it into a heater core and fan system under the back seat, as usual to all my crazy schemes Brad said, yeah not a problem.
I spent an afternoon the other day looking at water heater cores and fan assemblies at wreckers, everything I looked at is so huge, I will look again in few days, does anybody have any suggestions for car models I could try?
Steve
Joel ·
Hi Steve,
I've been searching too, very few factory heatercore enclosures a real small even in little hatches
I've almost got mine finished, a festiva heatercore in a homemade box.
Speedyair spares make some fairly compact heatercore units
Dimensions approx Width 200mm X Depth 210mm X Height 125mm
Dimensions approx Width 255mm X Depth 210mm X Height 110mm
matberry ·
Steve, I have a core that is quite compact but better still, very self contained. It includes fan and flaps for control of airflow and is from an Isusu or Mitsi truck cab, around mid 90's I think. I'll try and take a pic if you want, but I think you should go the air route, otherwise your increasing complication, weight and current drain going the H2O route.
1303Steve ·
Hi
Joel, I have my eye on one at the moment from a Nissan, it looks the goods and is cheap.
I had a Coaster bus one in my yellow bug, it only had a low speed fan in it, worked great. The Speedyair ones look great, but they cost a bit, my local air con guy can get the same stuff that they sell.
Matt, what ever OEM unit I get I will cut it down to the minimum to save weight, just need a box, fan and two outlets to hook up the the heater channels.
Steve
1303Steve ·
Hi
One of the Toyota heater units that I used in my yellow bug just came up on eBay.
Steve
vlad01 ·
if you need heater cores use computer radiators.
Great as they are high pressure tested, designed for maximum heat transfer and use BSP 1/4" threads for the fittings.
ah? yeah. computers have far advanced cooling technologys than cars do but their roots stated from the automotive cooling systems.
heck you can even buy liquid metal heat sinks for cpus. Na K alloy 👍
All my PCs are water cooled, been doing it for years. I apply principals from both computer to car and vise versa
Quote my sig from evga forums.
"my computers are liquid cooled while my cars are air cooled"
Also an awesome application of these rads that you could use them in an air to water intercooler rad as they dissipate heater far better than auto rads therefore taking up less space. the 560mm X 140mm rad would be great for A to W intercooler. you can series or parallel them too.
matberry ·
Very cool...excuse the pun. lol
Did notice this one with it's own pump, 12 v dc too.
well obviously you would use the swiftech with the built in pump. pump is way to slow GPM.
I know that the manufactures of that pump make a high temp version.
how good are those rads! great for my water to air ic.
vlad01 ·
yeah they are getting better every few months. you know what the it industry is like. upgrade every 5 min is a must.
I was just thinking about the heat source as mentioned before, water exhaust heat exchanger. wont that prove to be a problem when the heater is not in use?!?!
the exhaust is like 400oC to peak of 1000oC. don't get me wrong, but wont containing infinitely rising temps and pressures be a problem especially if the heater in not in use?
we don't want to see a mythbusters hot water heater unit in our VWs. I suggest using a oil to water heat exchangers. this would work better than the oil cooler as heater because the oil lines are shorter and less restrictive and also water holds heat for a long time.
so once warmed up the heat will be more consistent.
1303Steve ·
Hi
I'm going to incorporate a radiator cap in the system, if it gets too hot = too much pressure it will release the pressure.
If it really becomes an issue I could remove the heater from the J pipe for summer.
Steve
matberry ·
vlad01 wrote:I was just thinking about the heat source as mentioned before, water exhaust heat exchanger. wont that prove to be a problem when the heater is not in use?!?!
the exhaust is like 400oC to peak of 1000oC. don't get me wrong, but wont containing infinitely rising temps and pressures be a problem especially if the heater in not in use?
This I believe to be the biggest issue, will be interesting to see what happens.
You know Steve, you could always have two bags of concrete and ......harden the f--k up.😂😂
colonel mustard ·
Maybe just not drive the bug for the year, then get the subi conversion going.... 🙂
vlad01 ·
make a custom heater box is what I am going to do one day for my notch project. , oil cooler heater or water cooled heads?
heck you could even have a computer rad in the under tin absorbing heat from the waste air coming out underneath then doing the reverse to heat the cabin.
lots of different ways 😵💫
1303Steve ·
Hi
Well I won a heater unit from a Nissan 180 sx on Ebay, $20.50 last of the big spenders.
It looks like it will do the job, I can either use the heater core fitted in it or the air con evaporator as the heater core.
Thinking about doing the trailer queen thing for Warwick with the bug, my sons Skyline has great heaters, then we wont have to harden up or pray to the protector of transaxles.
Steve
the Nissan heater
1303Steve ·
Hi
Fitted the A-1 headers, so were now out in the cold. I'm still working on the heater setup, just collecting parts. I will keep you all posted.
Steve
1303Steve ·
Hi
I've been working on the heater issue tonight, Valla is getting closer.
I bought a heater unit from a Nissan on eBay, it was huge, I've managed to cut off all the bits I don't need so its small enough to fit under the tray I've made up to replace the back seat.
I'm incorporating a header tank with a radiator cap so it doesn't go nuclear if too much pressure builds up in the system.
I've made up the heat exchanger to bolt onto the headers, Westi is welding it up now.
Steve
matberry ·
Cool Steve, have you decided on using a pump, and if so what type of pump have you decided. Maybe a temp gauge at first to monitor what's going on???
1303Steve ·
Hi Matt
I have a 12 volt Whale pump that was on Dave Stockers water to air inter cooler on his Ghia, I was going to use that but I'm not sure how reliable it would be after sitting around all these years, so I'm going to fit a Davies Craig booster pump.
The hoses will be near back seat kick panels, I should be able to monitor the heat produced there.
Steve
matberry ·
What about using an oil thermo switch for the pump to cycle on at 90*, might keep temps in the system more stable.
1303Steve ·
Hi Matt
Good idea, but I might run the pump flat out to start off with, I'm worried that if the water isn't circulating it might get a rapid expansion that the radiator cap cant cope with.
Steve
1303Steve ·
Hi Matt
Tridon make a fan switch that would be ideal to turn the pump on.
I could give the pump power direct from the battery, so it would turn on when the coolant in the heat exchanger reaches a decent heat and then continue to circulate coolant after shutdown to avoid heat soak.
TFS110 Fan switch
Thread - 3/8 GAS
Circuit - Normally Open Ground
Temp Range: 87ºC to 82ºC
Spanner - 21mm
Steve
HappyDaze ·
matberry wrote:Cool Steve,
Hang on there,Matt, Steve wants 'warm', doesn't he, not 'cool'?😂
matberry ·
1303Steve wrote:I could give the pump power direct from the battery, so it would turn on when the coolant in the heat exchanger reaches a decent heat and then continue to circulate coolant after shutdown to avoid heat soak.
Steve
Sounds like a good idea.....er...... warm even 🙂
Make sure it's a continuous duty pump so it doesn't break down which could be an issue. And what happens if the temp goes over 87*? Maybe it goes open circuit again which also maybe interesting???
Joel ·
Hey Matt, thats just an ordinary rad fan switch.
As soon as it hits 87c it goes to ground to turn the fan on and stays like that till it gets down to 82c then it goes back to open circuit
matberry ·
Joel wrote:Hey Matt, thats just an ordinary rad fan switch.
As soon as it hits 87c it goes to ground to turn the fan on and stays like that till it gets down to 82c then it goes back to open circuit
Perfect 🙂
Aussie Dubbin ·
So has anyone come up with a design and tested it yet??? I was thinking abou this the other day... and i might be repeating what you guys are saying, but, cou you have an external oil cooling radiator (sorry of thats the wrong word)above the gearbox and then have a fan that blows air through it into a duct that is custom made but goes into the normal heating holes under the rear seat??? You would have to be able to blow that air outside when you did not want heating but would that be possible??? there is already heat there... a fan wouldn't drain too much power hopelly and the ducting would be the biggest problem??? How does that sound.
Again sorry if i'm repeating
funbug ·
What will you do with the superheated water when you do not need the heat inside the car? Or, will you run the pump continuously thereby having constant heat blowing into the car even on hot days?
1303Steve ·
Hi
Aussie Dubbin, I don't think the oil cooler will get enough heat in it to be affective on cold days.
I covered how cool the oil cooler was in an earlier post and pushing new air through it all the time will cut down on the efficiency, it needs to be recirculated.
The heat exchanger is nearly done, I cant wait to fit it altogether in time for Valla, if you want to have a look at the setup let me know.
Funbug, the only answer I have to this is moving it away form the header in warmer weather, it will only held on with hose clamps.
Steve
hulbyw ·
Modern water cooled cars no longer have a shut off tap on the heater core. Hot water goes through the core all the time. It is just the fan that determines whether the heater is working or not. So if you put the heat exchanger core over the gearbox as opposed to under the back seat, wouldn't matter in summer as long as the electric fan was turned off. Might make it easier to direct the hot air into the heater channels as well. Does that make sense?
Cheers..Wayne
1303Steve ·
Hi
I picked up the heat exchanger today from Westi, excellent job as usual.
Cant wait to get it hooked up and see if it works effectively.
Steve
hulbyw ·
Design looks good and workmanship very impressive. I am also very interested to see how it works as I have been contemplating a similar idea for years as I hate the oily smell from the standard setup (however I am sure when I rebuild the motor there will be a lot less oily smell when the heater is turned on). Other big advantage is an electric fan to really push the warm air into the cabin and on to the screen when needed.
Cheers
1303Steve ·
Hi
The fan unit I bought is from a Nissan 180 , the speed is very impressive, it nearly took off from the bench when I hooked it up, I'm going to run a slow speed through a ballast resistor and high speed when needed, there was a fan resistor attached to housing but it didn't seem to alter the speed at all, maybe it was used in conjunction with climate control.
I'm not a fan of smelly heaters either, another problem we struck in extremely wet weather was after going through a puddle we had an instant sauna with 0 visibility, not nice at 100 kph.
Steve
1303Steve ·
Hi
Its all together now, but its too late to start the car up now to see if it heats up OK, fan and pump are working fine.
Steve
1303Steve ·
Couple more
mactaylor ·
very cool steve hope it keeps you warm and toasty on the drive to valla!!
colonel mustard ·
Since when does that car have a rear sway bar.....
Looking good steve!
1303Steve ·
Hi
I will start it up today and see how goes, I want to get a few heat cycles in hoses so that I can tighten them again before Valla, looks like I might need the heat🥲
Colonel, that is the bar from my old 1302, its always been on there.
Steve
Aussie Dubbin ·
So whats on the other side of that box around the exhaust???
Is there a matching half circle...
1303Steve ·
Hi
No its just the 1/2 circle. I think that I will get enough heat with what I have fitted
Steve
Aussie Dubbin ·
Right help me out if you can...
i have just spent th last hour re reading the whole post... all of it there is a lot. now i am trying to understand how the system works, and i cant work it all out. Sorry my mechanical understandings are all self taught. So correct me when i get it wrong or fill in the blanks if you can please.
The "heat exchanger" is the stainless thingy welded up around the shape of the j-tubes. an cold fluid from behind the rear seat is pumped in and hot fluid is pumped up to the rear seat "thingy" (what is that called?). I imagine once thefluid is there it runs through a "mini-radiator" type thing that allows air to be blown across it to heat the air before it goes to the heating channels via your flexible tubing??? what does the return tube do in the top of the alloy tube thing in the corner? Also how does this alloy tube "thing?" work? How does fluid get to the alloy tube and where does it come form in the system and what triggers this change? I imagine the blue pipe is overflow and does this get stored or exited from the sytem? What happens if the system runs dry? And can you please re explain the pump on of mechanism and fan cycle??? Also where is the fresh air coming from???
Sorry if thats a big ask but i am very interested in our system and i cant understand some of the points.
Cheers if you can help.
vlad01 ·
that tube bit next to the heater core blower thingy is a reservoir for the coolant that circulates round the system. The blue tube thats connected on top is the overflow tube in case it over heats.
funbug ·
It looks really busy underneath the rear of your car. I am looking forward to reading how well the system functions and whether there are any drawbacks or not.
1303Steve ·
Hi
The heat exchanger and the heater unit (small radiator) are connected by 2 hoses, one of the hoses has a small electric pump to circulate coolant, I choose to push the coolant from the heater unit to the heat exchanger thinking that the pump would see less heat and live longer on the cooler side of things.
One of the 2 lines between the heat exchanger and the heater unit has a T piece in it, the coolant is filled via the alloy header tank into this T piece and then into the lines, not shown in the picture is a 1.1 bar radiator cap on the header tank, just in case. I mounted the header tank very high in the car so it should allow any trapped air to escape.
The blue hose is an overflow to the ground, all things being OK it shouldn't really use any coolant.
I only just finished it last night, the weather has been dreadful so I haven't tried it yet, I will find out how it goes tomorrow very early when we head off to Valla.
If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask, but I wont be able to answer until I get back form Valla
Steve
Joel ·
Steve that is a very similar setup to the pommy system i mentioned in the UK mag except it didnt have a pump, just relied on thermosyphon effect.
I went through 3 boxes of about 200 vw mags and you think I could find that one? 🙄
1303Steve ·
Hi Joel
I know the feeling, I can never find a particular magazine when a topic comes up.
I will test it out tomorrow, I hate wearing lots of clothes when I driving, that's why I wanted some heat.
This system could easily be used for a subi conversion, but the heater core is quiet large, looks like this car will be staying air cooled, I've just bought the start of big block Oxy boxer, 88 mm crank and case.
Steve
Joel ·
You'll never get yours finished if you keep getting sidetracked with other projecs 😂
Camo ·
Steve,
I think I might have found a simple solution and ones I haven't seen before.
OK the good news is the fan & pump work fine, the bad news is that the heat exchanger doesn't get hot..........at all.
I'm not giving up on the idea yet, I will keep you posted.
Steve
Aussie Dubbin ·
Is the heat exchanger unit too big??? Just an idea but if the volume was smaller maybe it would heat up more quickly.
1303Steve ·
Hi
It maybe to big, but a couple of things that I will try is, I used some old Kevlar gloves to stop the clamps from wearing on the ceramic coating, so this may be stopping some heat getting through.
The other thing I will try is wrapping the heat exchanger in exhaust wrap.
Steve
vlad01 ·
you can get another set of j pipes and build them into heat exchangers. Another way you can get the current ones to transfer heat is TIM (thermal interface material)
some sort of high temp ceramic or silica compound or adhesive squished between. I know! try some muffler putty 👍 is silica based. Traditional TIM is heat sink compound but there is far to much heat for any
electronic/computer thermal paste to work without melting off.
donn ·
Sounds like you need to have the core (the pipe carrying the water) wraped tighter to the exhaust and then fully enclose it, I have seen this method used in heat exchangers used on 4x4s for hot showers, the one I saw had the water so hot they had to have a cold water inlet to mix it to a cooler temp.
1303Steve ·
Hi Donn
I thought the 4WD showers used coolant heat to transfer heat to warm the shower water.
So you're seen them wrapped around an exhaust?
Steve
donn ·
Yeah, my son had one that a mate of his made up (made a few so they all didn't have to shower together 😀) that was way back b4 they all got rich and bought the shop made ones that you mentioned.
Gracey ·
You could try coiling 1/2" copper pipe around the J pipes, them wrapping that with thermo tec insulation.
Peter Leonard ·
Nice idea. I find ashing my cigarette into the shag pile seat cover behind me works well, albeit destructively.
Newt ·
Hi Guys,
Love the concept, but wonder if in these less than standard applications, if it wouldnt be a simple way to go by using the pre fresh air heating system that was used by VW for 20 odd years.
Newt
1303Steve ·
Hi
The early heating system was always plagued with smells and sometimes stuff that didn't smell but it would kill you.
I put some muffler putty between the J pipe and heat exchanger to make a tighter seal between them as there is a bump in the pipe where it fits up now. I'm going out to get some exhaust wrap to cover the unit.
Steve
HappyDaze ·
Hey Steve, if you wait a couple more months things will have warmed up, and a heater won't be necessary.😂
By next winter - you never know - 'Global Warming' may be starting to kick in. 🤪
Cheers, Greg
1303Steve ·
Hi Greg
Yes its nearly warm weather again, the car haters in government & RTA may have confiscated the car by then.
Just looking at the amount of money that was spent on keeping old cars on the road last weekend, if this industry is lost it will mean a lot of money taken out of the economy.
It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be driving up to Vall with no heaters, the only problem was the back windows were fogged up all the time.
Steve
funbug ·
Try welding fins to the J-tubes to increase the surface area which would aid heat transfer
donn ·
Gracey wrote:You could try coiling 1/2" copper pipe around the J pipes, them wrapping that with thermo tec insulation. [/quote
Yeah, that's the idea but they had the copper enclosed inside a metal canister fitted around the exhaust pipe, only pumped water through it when they wanted to use it out bush for a shower, made the ladies happier to tag along so the boys got to go away more often 😘😂, pumped water through the system with a bilge pump placed in a creek or large water container.
71-BEETLE-SEDAN ·
As for the back window go to dick smith and but two little fans, and point em at the window, works well just need something to mount them too aye.
1303Steve ·
Hi Josh
I have a factory heated rear screen that is yet to be fitted, I will try a few different things with the heat exchanger I have first.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
Steve
dangerous ·
this may be an option with some tubes, and original flapper valve under the seats.
So that would take the heat directly from the dog house cooler that would normally be blown onto the road, good idea.
Steve
Aussie Dubbin ·
OOOOOOOHHHHHHH That looks fantastic... I like that idea
I was pondering last night and want to suggest some more investigation into the copper pipe idea. If you tightly wound the copper tubing around the J-pipe and then wrapped exhaust wrap around the whole thing to make it an insulated body, or even made a larger steel enclosure that bolts together around the exterior so that the heat is confined and has to circulate aroud the pipes.
Alternatively why not just leave the heat exchanger in place and the car on and run the coolant from a large bucket fo coolant and run into the heat exchanger and out back into the bucket and you could test the heat out the pipe coming out????
You're doing a great job there is a lot of interest in the topic. Keep it up.
Cheers
Aussie Dubbin ·
Has everyone gone"cold" on this idea???
1303Steve ·
Hi
Its nearly warm enough now not to need heaters.
I'm going to look into getting some copper tube wound in a spiral to wrap around the J pipe, failing that I might try some straight 3/4 copper tube fitted tightly to the J pipe.
Steve
barls ·
steve, i think the copper pipe idea will work quite well as its exactly the opposite of the chillers used in making home brew beer to cool the wort after the boil before fermentation.
ive heard of going from boiling to 30 degrees in about 15 minute using tap temp water.
grogy ·
how bout run hoses from the pickups under the car to a collector box wit xternal oil cooler inside and put reversible fan in car at each pipe under back seat, if its hot have fan runnin taking air from inside car out thru oil cooler. if its cold have fans sucking air from outside thru cooler into the car.
1303Steve ·
Hi
Grogy, there is not enough heat in the oil, I did a couple of 25 k runs today mostly on a freeway, the oil temp was only around 60 C.
Barls, is was talking too a work colleague at Valla about this issue, he has friend that has a copper pipe around an exhaust pipe midway down the car and gets nice warm water out of it for his hand wash, sometimes too warm.
I think maybe my stainless heat exchanger held too much coolant.
Steve
barls ·
your problem most likely was the stainless part, it has terrible heat conductivity compared to almost everything else.
give the copper pipe a go.
1303Steve ·
Hi
I had visions of creating a potential bomb, stainless was bad a choice.
Steve
Aussie Dubbin ·
Steve,
Your box was awesome, well made, how about a smaller steel version that very simply blows air out of the original fan housing through the box an into the tunnels... i'm pretty confident the air would heat up enough to warm the car...
thoughts?
1303Steve ·
Hi
Thats an idea but it could get a bit fumy.
Steve
71-BEETLE-SEDAN ·
I say toughen up,
Ive driven all winter without heaters, from 4.00 am starts and home from gfs at like 2.00 when there has already been frost on my windscreen.
But once i see how you do yours steve im doing the same thing one winter is enough without heaters
vlad01 ·
I noted that all CSP heater boxes have a variety of pipe sizes from 38mm to 48mm and they are SS made J pipe.
Maybe if a few of us buy them, you might get them cheaper again.
Cheers, Kev
bus914 ·
71-BEETLE-SEDAN wrote:I say toughen up,
Ive driven all winter without heaters, from 4.00 am starts and home from gfs at like 2.00 when there has already been frost on my windscreen.
But once i see how you do yours steve im doing the same thing one winter is enough without heaters
Someone's probably already mentioned this, but a demister/ heater, in NSW at least is required for rego.
sander288 ·
Thats the first i've heard... I havn't had a heater or windscreen washers since I've owned the car (2002) and always passed rego
1303Steve ·
Hi
Most rego checks are pretty slack, they are even supposed to check the age of the tyres, they get paid peanuts for what should be a pretty serious undertaking.
Camo, those units look interesting.
Steve
ps
I made another heat exchanger using some copper tube, the copper tube gets very hot, the water doesn't, bummer. I haven't given up on this yet.
Aussie Dubbin ·
Steve if you have wound copper tube over the pipes can you run some air through them and let us know how hot the air is when it come out the other end. Without doing this myself i'm pretty sure that would be hot enough. And you could feed th systm by a 12v fan of from the original fan tin???
1303Steve ·
Hi
I've been thinking about this idea again. I've made up a copper U section that is as long as the J pipes, I'm going to wrap the tubing & J pipe with exhaust warp to retain heat in the copper tubing, I hope to have this on before the Winter break this weekend.
I recently fitted an oil cooler thermostat, the oil warms up quickly now, so I may look into fitting an oil cooler inside the Nissan heater unit.
Steve
Sorry about bringing up an old thread
grumble ·
Try a blanket and a track suit or fix the heaters.👍
1303Steve ·
Hi
No heater boxes to fix, the car has A1 headers now.
I made it to Wakefield in May with a parker, beany and mittens, the north coast should be OK.
Steve
AUSSIE_MICK ·
Its been 1 year almost to the day steve
shokwave2 ·
You could install a cig lighter thingy and wire up some hairdryers to it. I know a guy who did that, although the noise would get to me after 30 seconds.