sort of. more sugary treacle sort of smell.
pretty sure treacle is related to molasses anyway.
annosL ·
I have used molasses for years for rust and can vouch for it, good for old rusted tools too, good to see that video as I have given up telling people as most think your pulling their leg. I use 50/50 molasses and water and leave stuff in as long as possible. Bloke near me used it when doing up a '27 chev truck, just need a bit of patience.
vlad01 ·
yes it does work good. I have a one of those huge white buckets that the molasses came in with about 1:3 ratio. I chucked in some rusted up commodore disks in there and surly but slowly its eating the rust ans only the rust.
Its been in there for about 2 months and I would say is about a 3rd done. Problem is I live in cold kyneton. Average temps through out this experiment has been 5-10oC 🙄 It a chemical reaction so temperature has everything to do with
the time it take to complete.
bugzla ·
man thats awesome cant wait to try it ...thanks for the link 🙂
jjwebb123 ·
thats really interesting.
and easy.thanks so much
bajachris88 ·
Does this guy chop his car's into quarters or something and put them in?
then reweld all the panels hes made to make a whole car again?
that stuff looks to be thet go. most impressed.
vlad01 ·
I was thinking of making a recycling spray both. basically making a plastic water proof tent with a wooden frame on the floor of the shed lined with plastic to make a sort of car sized tray.
then fill this tray with the solution and plumb some spray nozzles everywhere around and inside the body. have a pump to recycle the solution round and round through the sprayers.
essentially its would be like submerging the whole car but without actually submerging it.
making sure every thing is water proof and leave the car in for a few weeks 😂
vlad01 ·
Then clean it all off, por15 metal ready it, then shove it into a another air tight both and run a few kero burners and a dehumidifier. haha be awesome.
just dont go in there or you might die. The kero burners will do 2 things heat the both for faster drying and rob the air inside of oxygen and also withdraw oxygen out of trapped water.
The dehumidifier will remove all the water out of the air essentially force drying the car after
being wet from pressure washing.
So in theory this will prevent any rust forming and dry it dryer than the moon 😂
haha my crazy plans
annosL ·
I reckon that's possible, maybe thermo-cycling through a solar panel or heat exchanger may offset the temperature issue?
vlad01 ·
yeah its only an experiment. I never do any body work in winter anyway.
vlad01 ·
I noticed something quite amazing. under top layer of sludge that forms the underneath layer is highly metallic silvery sludge. At closer inspection I noticed it was actually metal sludge.
Very very fine particles of iron. So it actually turns the rust back into metal 😵💫 thats cool.
jjwebb123 ·
I live on a small property,so we have molasses all the time.It was nothing for me to find a bucket pour some molasses in the bucket and fill the rest with water.This is after a week and a half in the bucket.
I now have a big tub,which i am going to use for bigger pieces.just a word of warning thou,it must be sealed straight away.I took a small piece of rio into work to show everyone what i have been doing.I got it out of the bucket at 8:00 and put it in clemy,then got it back out of the car at around 12:00. and it was covered in surface rust.So just make sure you have some form of sealant ready.Anyway the proof is in the pics.
Enjoy.
vlad01 ·
good isn't it 👍
DieSchnelleKafer ·
if i say dipped a door and some fenders, would it actully eat the rust away or would it just turn the rust into another kind of material and then i would spray over that?
cheers
annosL ·
Well from my experience it eats up the rust and leaves the good metal however thin, so you still need to weld in new steel if need be. Doesn't matter how long you leave it, steel won't be eaten, only rust!
vlad01 ·
yep thats right. I have some disk rotors that have been in it for 4 months? looks perfect.
DieSchnelleKafer ·
guys, im really exited. i followed the internets instructions and vwalla! check this out:
vlad01 ·
Yep its great. Although mine has ceased to working just about. I think I need a fresh batch of molasses as I am pretty sure my lot was bought 2007.
vlad01 ·
Fresh batch of molasses. 25Kg cost me 23 buks, which can make 200L
Dubsky ·
Has anyone tried using molasses to remove rust on chromed parts? does it affect the chrome? And does it remove oxide from alloy parts?
Doug Sweetman ·
How cool is this ? As a bonus, my neighbour has horses.... So molasses is easy to come by !!!
Likewise keen to hear if this will affect chrome - anyone know ?
nils ·
Well i'll be...............🤪
will give this a shot next i remove some rust
matberry ·
I have a molasses tank I use on occasion. Some alloys go a bit crazy and blow up, not sure about chrome, I think it doesn't hurt it, but I'll drop in an old hubcap and let you know.
Biggest hassle is it takes quite some time depending on the coatings and part.
vlad01 ·
I just did some VT caliper brackets which are zinc plated and had some rust and heavy brake dust stuck on them.
3 days to bare metal including taking the zinc off. I learned a trick that helps a lot. heat! the hotter the mixture the faster it will react, so I had my tub in the hot sun so the liquid was from a guess around 40-50ºc
in winter is can talk over 3 weeks to do some stuff.
From experience it will lift chrome to some degree, depending on how long of course you leave it in there. If you don't want certain areas to be affected, coat them in bearing grease and that stops any molasses getting to it.
What do you mean "Some alloys go a bit crazy and blow up"? you should not put alloys in there anyway as it ruins aluminum alloys. What you want for alloy is phosphoric acid. aka aluminum cleaner.
Doug Sweetman ·
Cheers guys, much appreciated. I'm guessing it would lift chrome mainly only where the iron oxide extends under the chrome plate ? Neat stuff anyways !
viiking ·
This seems to be a very slow way of achieving the same result as acid treatments.
My guess is that the molasses fements to acetic acid (vinegar) and removes the oxidised steel (i.e. rust).
You can achieve same results using dilute vinegar, citric acid (fruit acid) which is used in industry to passivate steel surfaces or if you want a real quick result diluted pool acid (HCl). DO NOT USE HEAT WITH ANY ACIDS HOWEVER.
Whatever the method, it appears to be the same - use an acid.
I use citric acid as my preferred method- 5to 10% solution of powder in water. Leave rusty nuts and bolts and parts in it for a day or so and the rust goes. Even nuts and bolts that are brutally stuck together usually come apart. It will not return the rust but gets rid of it. You may end up with swiss cheese if it is badly rusted. You should be able to buy citric acid from places that sell beer bottling outfits. It is used as an ingredient in food and is relatively safe like molasses.
Now the important thing is that every parts is extensively washed in water or neutralised with say bicarb of soda then rinsed again. Adding water again starts the IMMEDIATE rusting process so the surface of the metal needs to be treated. I usually put my cleaned small parts into WD40 solution or light oil for a while afterwards to give them a coating before I use them.
When you acid treat the surface you provide a virginal surface for the oxidation process to start again (i.e.rust). This is why the the experiment above showed immediate surface rust.
DISCLAIMER: My suggestion is to try out the methods above, but I take no responsibility for YOUR safety. Do your research and wear your Personal Protective Equipment, like safety glasses, gloves etc.
Try it out on some parts that may be not worth keeping first and see if it works. It will!
vlad01 ·
viiking wrote:This seems to be a very slow way of achieving the same result as acid treatments.
My guess is that the molasses fements to acetic acid (vinegar) and removes the oxidised steel (i.e. rust).
You can achieve same results using dilute vinegar, citric acid (fruit acid) which is used in industry to passivate steel surfaces or if you want a real quick result diluted pool acid (HCl). DO NOT USE HEAT WITH ANY ACIDS HOWEVER.
Whatever the method, it appears to be the same - use an acid.
I use citric acid as my preferred method- 5to 10% solution of powder in water. Leave rusty nuts and bolts and parts in it for a day or so and the rust goes. Even nuts and bolts that are brutally stuck together usually come apart. It will not return the rust but gets rid of it. You may end up with swiss cheese if it is badly rusted. You should be able to buy citric acid from places that sell beer bottling outfits. It is used as an ingredient in food and is relatively safe like molasses.
Now the important thing is that every parts is extensively washed in water or neutralised with say bicarb of soda then rinsed again. Adding water again starts the IMMEDIATE rusting process so the surface of the metal needs to be treated. I usually put my cleaned small parts into WD40 solution or light oil for a while afterwards to give them a coating before I use them.
When you acid treat the surface you provide a virginal surface for the oxidation process to start again (i.e.rust). This is why the the experiment above showed immediate surface rust.
DISCLAIMER: My suggestion is to try out the methods above, but I take no responsibility for YOUR safety. Do your research and wear your Personal Protective Equipment, like safety glasses, gloves etc.
Try it out on some parts that may be not worth keeping first and see if it works. It will!
no once it ferments it ceases to work. even pure molassis will strip rust fast.
problem with acid is its aggressive, a real PITA to use as it has dangerous fumes that make it impossible to work around without having a mask and sealed goggles. and One other thing i noticed with acid, the fumes will corrode stuff near by, have to be more than 10m away from anything on a still day, much further on windy days.
2 more points I like to make about acid, actually 3.
1. its quickly depletes as the reaction happens requiring new acid all the time and I always run out of it before I got all the rust off. Molasses lasts 6 moths of continuous use.
2. Its very expensive and when you want to do a who panel or door, where are you gona get 500L of acid from and how much will that cost?
3. burns the fuck out of your hands and eyes from the fumes and most general gloves give up pretty quick. melts synthetic cloths and turns cotton into dust even after you was it out. Can't be bushed on for long as it melts the bristles. spray bottle is just asking for it as it turns to clouds of acid vapor and kills the rubber seals in minutes killing the spray bottle.
you can use phosphoric acid as an alternative but its even more expensive and is slow compared to hydrochloric acid.
molasses wins hands down! 😂
viiking ·
Don't disagree re the molasses, but for most of us city sllickers molasses would be difficult to obtain in bulk.
So what I have done is to get a large tank called an IBC or Intermediate bulk container. These are the square plastic containers of 1000 litres with a steel cage around it. I get mine from work, but you sometimes see them on ebay. Cut off the top plastic so you can get the parts iin. Put in the water and then citric acid. For a half full tank you put in 500 litres of water, and 25kg bag of citric acid. Actual concentration is not critical. As I work in the chemical industry I can get the citric in bulk cheap.
I have treated my doors, mudguards, boot and bonnet and donor complete quarter panels this way. Whatever you can fit. Small parts can go in drums, buckets or whatever else you have lying around. The solution does NOT go off but continues to work for a long time -has no smell, doesn't burn - you can put your hands in it no problems UNLESS you have cuts in which case you get stinging.
Alternatively you can build a frame out of wood, or bricks or even just mound dirt and place in a tarpaulin big enough to hold the item in question inside and then fill with water. Wouldn't suggest going too high, maybe 100-200 mm might be enough depending on what you are trying to immerse.
Re the HCl. I agree concentrated stuff is nasty. But when you dilute it from the 32% solution you buy say from Bunnings, 10-fold, it is not much of a problem.
So Citric Acid has the following benefits:
1. Reasonably cheap.
2. Doesn't smell awful like molasses or vinegar or pool acid
3. Works quickly depending on how strong you use it.
4. Is relatively innoccuous - won't burn the bejesus out of you. It is used in soft drinks and lollies so it can't be too bad for you
5, It is not difficult to get rid of when you have used it.
Do some google searching for it or watch this video. It really is the best method I have come up with.
In all cases it is best if you can remove as much of the offending crap as possible like oils and greases as this tends to create big grease balls in the solution.
vlad01 ·
viiking wrote:Don't disagree re the molasses, but for most of us city sllickers molasses would be difficult to obtain in bulk.
So what I have done is to get a large tank called an IBC or Intermediate bulk container. These are the square plastic containers of 1000 litres with a steel cage around it. I get mine from work, but you sometimes see them on ebay. Cut off the top plastic so you can get the parts iin. Put in the water and then citric acid. For a half full tank you put in 500 litres of water, and 25kg bag of citric acid. Actual concentration is not critical. As I work in the chemical industry I can get the citric in bulk cheap.
I have treated my doors, mudguards, boot and bonnet and donor complete quarter panels this way. Whatever you can fit. Small parts can go in drums, buckets or whatever else you have lying around. The solution does NOT go off but continues to work for a long time -has no smell, doesn't burn - you can put your hands in it no problems UNLESS you have cuts in which case you get stinging.
Alternatively you can build a frame out of wood, or bricks or even just mound dirt and place in a tarpaulin big enough to hold the item in question inside and then fill with water. Wouldn't suggest going too high, maybe 100-200 mm might be enough depending on what you are trying to immerse.
Re the HCl. I agree concentrated stuff is nasty. But when you dilute it from the 32% solution you buy say from Bunnings, 10-fold, it is not much of a problem.
So Citric Acid has the following benefits:
1. Reasonably cheap.
2. Doesn't smell awful like molasses or vinegar or pool acid
3. Works quickly depending on how strong you use it.
4. Is relatively innoccuous - won't burn the bejesus out of you. It is used in soft drinks and lollies so it can't be too bad for you
5, It is not difficult to get rid of when you have used it.
Do some google searching for it or watch this video. It really is the best method I have come up with.
In all cases it is best if you can remove as much of the offending crap as possible like oils and greases as this tends to create big grease balls in the solution.
molasses is bought from pet/animal food supply shops. Alternatively from a horse shop.
I like your idea on the 1000l water tanks.
might try that one.
where do you buy citric acid from? can you get bulk sodium hydroxide? and is that expensive?
sodium hydroxide is one of the key chemicals I use to complete the process for un-rusting bare metal.
Dubsky ·
From what I understand citric acid and molasses both work using the chelation process. The solution breaks the bond between the rust and the iron without attacking the iron as with some acids.... I bought 25litres of molasses ($40) at the local stock feed shop here in Canberra, that should make 250 to 500 litres depending on who's mix you go with. I'm happy to wait a while for it to work as I have plenty of other jobs to do on the car.
Viiking, How long does it take to remove heavy rust in your solution of 500 litres of water to 25kg of acid? And where can I get a 25 bag in Canberra?? 😉
viiking ·
Try googling chemical suppliers. As previously discussed try places that sell home brew supplies for citric acid.
Any base will work to neutralise. Caustic soda (NaOH) is also very concentrated and nasty. You could try bicarbonate of soda or even "pH up" from pool stores or even Bunnings. The alternative is to just keep flushing longer until all the acid has gone.
Heavy rust goes in days to a week. I will see if I can find some before and after photos of something small I did.
I would strongly recommend that you do a small scale test first with whatever quantity of Citric Acid that you can buy. If you get say 1 kg you should be able to easily make 20 litres of quite strong solution. You can always scale up later if you are happy with the results. Do it in a couple of 10 litre batches.
Believe me it works!
viiking ·
Here's a picture of my engine tin which I have put in a 5% solution last night i.e. 24 hrs ago.
It is not overly rusty, but there are areas where there is surface rust. The piece is painted and the acid will take some time to soften and remove the paint. I will help it along by washing it with a strong water stream and even a wire brush if I get impatient.
When I look closely at the piece I can see where it has removed some surface impurities already leaving a slightly (ever so slightly) pitted surface where rust has been. This will be a perfect key for subsequent painting.
You can clearly see the "witness" or is that the "Plimsoll Mark" where it has not been fully immersed. I want to demonstrate a before and after shot so you can see it.
The solution has turned from a lemon yellow colour to a clear reddish-brown solution due to the dissolved iron and paint residue.
viiking ·
Better picture of the tin. Note the pitting on the bottom right of the picture. This used to be surface rust 24hrs ago.
Sorry I am not so adept at getting the picture the right size but still staying within the limits imposed for files.
I think if you click on it, it will get bigger for you.
matberry ·
Here's a pair of stock TP manifolds that have been in a molassis brew for a few weeks or more. Trying to unblock the carbon buil-up in the preheat pipes......still soaking.
The alloy has a dark build-up of gunk that I was mentioning. It's odd that it is only in some spots.
viiking ·
I wouldn't think that molasses or my citric acid will remove carbon. It hasn't been created in an aqueous (water) environment but in an organic (solvent) environment. The carbon is a problem because it is held together with a "varnish" meaning you need a solvent to remove it.
The correct chemical to remove carbon is probably butyl cellosolve or butoxyethanol. It is a carbon solvent. In the past it has been used to un-sieze engines that have sat for a long time and cannot be turned over.
Google it. You may find it is the active ingredient in carburettor cleaners. Not sure if it is in Fuel Injection cleaner though. Get a can or bottle and then spray the contents out into a can, or directly into the preheat pipes and leave it soaking for a while. Put a can or something under the outlets in case it gives way, or plug off where you can. You should be able to use it again until it is fully contaminated. It also is a little volatile and may evaporate so plug all pipes that it is in.
The chemical is somewhat toxic, so read the warnings and don't breathe it in for long. See can for warnings. For under $10 it might be worth a go.
I don't know how to spell KEMIST but I are one.
matberry ·
Thanks Viking, I'll try it.
vlad01 ·
one bad thing about molasses is if you leave in for more than a year and it fills with leaves it stinks like thats putrid energy drink 👎
I emptied a whole bath tub. smelled exactly like that shit kids drink these days. 🙁 So yeah don't let too many leaves get in there,
Dubsky ·
I'm impressed. I had a few parts in a tin , molasses @ 1:10 +sun, and after two weeks no rust but to my surprise it also stripped off all paint.