The stuff they don\'t put in workshop manuals

I'm pretty annoyed with my workshop manual for the kombi at the moment. I'm not sure which one it is - it's white with a blue kombi on the front.

I've been putting my motor back together for the last few days. It came back from the builder as a short block with oil pump, cooler and filter installed.

Simple, I thought. I'll just read the manual and put it back together, nothin to it....

Wrong!!! I can't find anywhere in the manual where it tells me to put the lower cylinder cooling tin on before the pushrod tubes. 😠

I also couldn't find where it says to fit the cooling tin on the oil cooler before fitting the fan shroud 😠😠, nor where it tells me to put the cooling tin on the back of #2 cylinder before fitting the alternator 😠😠😠

As a result, my pushrod tubes have been installed twice, as has my fan shroud.

Just to add insult to injury, I've just discovered that I have to remove one heater box, because I didn't install the rear engine support bar!!! :jesus

Have you tried the "compleat idiot book"
alot of the time the best manuals come from outside the company.

i don't know enough asbout motors to know if its any good but i did notic Dymocks in Brisbane stock it.

I have 9 different workshop manuals for My 68 Auto Beetle, as they are all different and ALL seem to leave little bits out here and there.... or they tell You what to do and don't show any diagrams or photos.... I still have to get a Bentley VW of America Workshop Manual... the most expensive of them all... I bought most of these books thru Amazon.com in the USA. I Don't have an Idiots book as I don't like it.. I have read it... My Son has a copy of it... I believe You NEED more than one manual.... Maybe 10 is the Answer..... :bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce

[Edited on 15-7-2003 by 68AutoBug]

...and then to add shame to insult and injury you get called an idiot! 😉

Hope you have a better day today Colin.

Good old workshop manuals, Im sure the people that write them do this on purpose, just to catch DIY people like us out, at least the things that happened to you will be remembered next time, we have all fallen victim to this at least once before. how the Kombi comming along Col.
Rob....

KruizinKombi wrote:I can't find anywhere in the manual where it tells me to put the lower cylinder cooling tin on before the pushrod tubes. 😠

As a result, my pushrod tubes have been installed twice, as has my fan shroud.
:jesus

BLOODY LUXURY

Hey try owning a Type 1 and forgetting the tin. The bloody heads have to come off!!!

Be grateful Col - this will make great drinking stories at Valla. You will sit there and laugh your head off and say "Thats nothing - i did the old T4........"

Did i make you feel better or worse? 😀

68AutoBug wrote:I have 9 different workshop manuals for My 68 Auto Beetle, as they are all different and ALL seem to leave little bits out here and there.... or they tell You what to do and don't show any diagrams or photos.... I still have to get a Bentley VW of America Workshop Manual... the most expensive of them all... I bought most of these books thru Amazon.com in the USA. I Don't have an Idiots book as I don't like it.. I have read it... My Son has a copy of it... I believe You NEED more than one manual.... Maybe 10 is the Answer..... :bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce

[Edited on 15-7-2003 by 68AutoBug]

Do you have bad eyesight or is this a form of A.D.D.? 😉

I haven't tried the Idiot's Guide, purely because I don't like it. I also found that it was geared more towards the upright motors than a type IV engine.

Lee, I have two manuals, including the Bentley. Although I have read both, I choose to keep the greasy fingerprints to one.

Hopefully tonight's effort will go smoother, I've nearly finished the reassembly. I'll post again later tonight to let you know how its going.

Yes blue, I have no doubt that it will all make for great VW stories down the track, but at the time it is more than a little bit frustrating - I hate doing things twice, especially when it could have been done once.

Yeah

unfortunately i went through that when i built my motor

First i was sent the wrong bearing - righ label but wrong size. Never noticed until it was fired up
🙁

Be fore i fired the motor we put a new clutch in. I was real happy until i sat down and felt the throw out bearing in my back pocket.

Next time the rings never seated - another rebuild

They never seated - total seal went in

That time i never noticed the cooing tin bits sitting on the floor until i moved them when i wanted to get under the car to install the motor :o

Ahhh..... yes YOU can laugh......... i will cry :cry

?Text?

Gee Col, if you asked me I could have told you that........:P
Does this help at all???
😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

Walt, the text size is for Lee's benefit; He keeps shouting at us, so I just assume he's deaf and shout back to make sure he can hear me! 😉😀

Ben, you seem to be implying that I should be paying a 'professional' such as yourself to do the job 'the right way'. No thanks. Unlike many people, I do not call a carpenter to build me a set of bookshelves. I'd rather learn how to do it myself. Sure I call an electrician, but only because it is required by law. I know perfectly well how to wire power points and lights. 🙂

These mistakes will only happen once. Sure, maybe next time I'll make different mistakes, or maybe I'll make more mistakes before I've finished this motor, but I rarely make the same mistake twice. I took the 'safe' option of having my short motor built by a trusted pro, but I see no reason why qualifications should be necessary to complete the rest, and it is saving me a CONSIDERABLE amount of money - money that I'd rather have in my pocket than someone else's. 🙂

Graham, no, it doesn't make me feel any better, but reading Blue's post does!!! 😀

Dunno Dave, but I'm sure you'd be able to tell me!:P



[Edited on 16-7-2003 by KruizinKombi]

I Dont call tradespeople because I dont trust them. One of the bastards almost had me electocuted when I went to change the light bulb. Threw me off the bed. I fixed it. My extension roof leaked. Other roof plumbers I called in to fix it didnt fix it. I fixed it. Wired up the 8 flouros in my garage, installed the ceiling fans and security lights. Installed most of the airconditioning. The only things I havent done are inside the fuse box. Getting the 15 amp supply for the air con, and installing the safety switch. (There are other lights I havent fitted, need to be sure I dont get zapped) Now dont get me started on telstra technicians! That will need its own thread. Wish I knew how to fix phone lines. The amount I would pay per day for a tradesman pays the mortgage for a month.

I've done all those things you mention Col. Its all learning. And doing it wrong the first time means you dont need to memorise it for the second time. As you put the first tube in next time you will remember how many times you did it this time.

One thing you dont find in the manual under torque settings is 'tighten it up, add 10% GST, then tighten it some more, till it starts to go loose then back it off half a turn. I'm a BHP fitter by trade. I'll see you through it 😀

Well I didn't get much done tonight - got home around 8pm from work...

Managed to get the pushrods in, rockers on, gaps set, new gaskets on and rocker covers fitted. Too stuffed to do any more. 🙁

Here's where I'm at...

I agree Col,

If it is your first rebiuld it is not easy. I rebuilt the Helbus motor August last year, but not case split or bottom end, and that took so many hours.

I laid all tinware in like a blown up way on the floor and cleaned each piece one by one. then I epoxy black painted each one by one to keep the order.

then I assembled in order. It was the only way as I had both the Gregory's manual you described and the Idiots guide and I still needed some genuine skill. I must have done ok as the motor has done 15000 k's with no ill effects.

I did add some extra work, like putting back in the thermostat and cable to operate the flaps. Works well.

Thank you to Boris at VVDS who provided a part and posted free of charge. To help me out with the job. I do recommend VVDS in Sydney anyday.

Col I think you made the same mistakes everyone makes the first time you build a VW Type 4 motor!

If I remember right, a white manual with a blue Kombi on the cover was the Gregory's manual, an Australian-produced effort. I found it pretty good, but yes olnly a guide. It did have some good exploded view photos of the tinware. I also have the Bentley manual, and I also borrowed the Haynes and InerEurope manuals from the local library when I built my engine.

Here's some things I found when I built my first Type 4 motor:

* The rods don't have casting marks on them like Type 1 rods do, so there's no 'right' way to install them. All manuals for Type 4 engines still use a photo of a Type 1 crank and rods, with casting marks! I installed mine with the rod numbers all facing up.

* I nearly forgot the finned plastic shanks that fit over the case through-bolts. The manuals only mention them in passing, but they are vital to locate the bolts correctly.

* I didn't forget the tinware under the cylinders, having built many Type 1 engines over the years. The Type 4 bits are much bigger. I had all the tinware pieces laid out on the garage floor so I wouldn't miss any!

* I remember fitting and unfitting the alloy fan shroud several times before I got all the tinware on correctly. There was always a piece left over. Eventually I gort it right, but even now I can't remember the exact order.

* Leaving out the rear engine bar is mandatory for a first Type 4 rebuild. I finished my engine, took photos of it on the stand and was ready to install it before I saw the bar still lying in the garage floor! And yes the exhaust and one heater box has to come off again to reinstall it.

We've all made these kind of mistakes. It's all part of learning about our cars. And in spite of our errors, you can't pay anyone to show as much care and patience as you would yourself.

Besides doing it yourself gives you quality time with the one you love, your VW😀😀

I'm sure all will workout fine, and then you can say you did it !!

I guess Valla will be its "Run in".😀

So is there a FULL step-by-step guide to building a T4 motor available on the web?

If not, I reckon that between you you'd have enough knowledge to write one (hint hint!).

lol i always laugh at the complete idiots guid cause no where in there do they say stuff a complete idot would knned to know like "get a 13mm ring spanner, thats the 1 with a lil 13 written on it and has a circley looking bit on the end" LOL

Ben Durie wrote:Hi,
the manual is just a guide , it asumes a skilled trades person is used for the job.

If I need a powerpoint or light fitting replaced i call an Electrician, or a plumber if the dunny is blocked , builder for my house etc, sure I could do em all my-self but usually best and quicker to pay the right person for the job.
regards
Ben..

[Edited on 10-12-2002 by Ben Durie]

This has got to be a stir yeah ? You can't seriously be suggesting that you should take the tinware to a mechanic to assemble ? Next you will be saying we need to get an air technician to check my tire pressure :repuke

Good work COL !
even the pros stuffed up when they started in the trade following there workshop manual !
wish i had the time and patience to do it at the moment. o yeah and some space would be good too 🙂

Well Folks, I will never touch a type 4 engine... Well! maybe touch it, but I'll never pull one apart and try to put it back again.... Some Owners workshop manuals show all the easy things and leave All the hard bits out.... and Yes I am a bit DEAF.... and a bit Blind (wear glasses) BUT, I still Love air cooled VWs ... (Especially type 1s)... and NO , I'm Not shouting, I just like large text.." THIS IS SHOUTING..." "this is not"
I rest My Ear Drums.... 😀😀:o:thumb:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce

Well guys, I'm making progress, albeit slowly. I've come down with a bug (pun not intended) and everytime I bend over or move my head I see stars. 🙁

At last, I think I have everything on where it's supposed to be. :thumb I'm still missing a few non-crucial bolts (isn't it always the way?) because it never had them to begin with. I have shuffled them around though so that the ones that are still missing are the easiest ones to get to with the engine installed. 😉

I still need a thermostat and cable, but I've fitted the flaps. This motor didn't have them installed before. :o

Lee, that's much better 🙂

There is now a light at the end of the tunnel. If everything goes to plan, I'll have it running tomorrow afternoon. I have an unplanned trip to the movies in the morning - I won tickets at Karaoke last night, right before the virus hit me - maybe I won because my voice was starting to go husky!😀

Anyway, I've got the engine mated up to the gearbox with the top two bolts in, so (hopefully) not too much can go wrong from here.....

well? nearly 24 hours later and?

Not trying to be a smart so and so, but dont forget the oil! Its been done before too. not by me I promise 🙂 although I have filled a car without the sump plug. Oh and I have been doing some plumbing, removed the S bend and poured the water down the sink. Best shut up before too much more embarrassment.

Amazer, you're supposed to call the plumber !!!!! not do it yourself 😀😀

naah. DIY then call in a cleaner to mop the floor 😀

and a "Project Manager" to co-ordinate 😀

not one of mine!

.

..

HAhaha, gotta love that one!! I've never seen a homemade power point before!! :o:o:o

Work is slow due to me being sick - I've even got the day off work. 2nd day off in three years. 🙁

Engine is bolted in, oil is in (and no, it didn't run out the bottom, although I semi-expected it 😀), foam seal is in (fiddly bastard!!).

I still have to connect the fuel lines to the pump, throttle cable, dizzy cap and plug wires, wiring to the oil press. sender, coil and regulator, and two screws each into the heater flap boxes. I'm procrastinating about going out there now, because I really don't like the dizzy feeling everytime I move my head. 🙁

LOL the wood isnt even cut straight LOL

Hehehe, here's a 'card' I got via email from one of the kids at school. This is actually a big deal, because he is essentially illiterate.

I keep a folder of my favourite pics on the school server where all the kids can access them. :thumb

Well I got the fuel line on, after yelling at Heather for ten minutes before she heard me (on the bloody phone again 😠 ) because I neglected to clamp the fuel hose from the tank before I pulled the bolt out of the end of it. This is a mistake I've made before, but I'll learn one day. I'm actually contemplating fitting a tap to the tank outlet so I can just turn off the fuel when I'm playing with hoses.

I got the heater flap thingies done up, and the wiring nearly sorted (I'm about to make a new wire for the carby chokes and solenoids). What I really want to do is turn the motor over to get the oil pressure up, but...

Flat battery!!! 😠😠😠

The bloody thing was fine a week ago when I reconnected it to show a mate my central locking!!! How can a battery be fine for three months and then go flat in a week? I even disconnected it again after I'd finished playing around!

So, I'm now on the hunt for a battery charger, but in the meantime, I think I'll pinch the battery out of the bug. 😉

[Edited on 21-7-2003 by KruizinKombi]

Sounds like you're nearly there! 😀

You could take out the spark plugs and hand-crank it a few times. It won't give full oil pressure but it'll move the oil around enough to get most parts coated before you fire it up.

It also sounds like you need to buy a new battery: if it's been flat (even just once) it's chemically damaged and it'll never hold a full charge again. It'll probably be OK if you drive it every day and the weather is warm, but if you leave it for a few days it'll go flat again, or if there's cold weather it could even go flat overnight. I've heard that gel batteries are good and worth the extra expense.

I got everything the way it was supposed to be (or so I thought) and cranked the motor over on the starter with the dizzy cap off to build up the oil pressure for a while, then put the dizzy cap back on. Fired up first time!!! 😀😀😀

Couldn't get it to idle, and finally found a missing plug in the carby - something like a welsh plug I guess, leaving a hole that exposed the idle circuit solenoid's valve. When I block it with my finger, he idles fine.

I'm currently ratting an old carby that Brad gave me 18 months ago when my butterfly shaft was leaking - I used the bottom section and the rest has been sitting around since. The plug I need is intact, so I decided to swap over the whole top section of the carby.

I spent a bit of time exploring the little rectangular thing on the side to see what it is/does. Apparently it has some kind of heating element in it which blocks/unblocks a hole in the side of the carby. The wires inside are broken, and my carby never had one fitted before even though the hole is still there, so I guess it only operates when cold and I can get away with leaving it off. Back to the problem at hand....

I swapped a few parts from my old carby top to the 'new' carby top such as my choke and my new idle circuit solenoid, and then tried to fit the 'new' top to my old carby. No go. It seems that my carby has an extra bit molded into the bottom of the float chamber, and the brass tube in the new top section is too long to fit. 😠

Getting closer, but not there yet!:bounce

Baaah it'll go on. Just hit it harder with something bigger.

I have done the fuel line thing too. (why do I tell people these things) Well mine was clamped but not enough obviously. Copped the lot in my face. Worst part is that Jay was there watching me 🙁 most embarrassing. She never crawled under to help me either 😠 😉

Didn't know what I could do to help 🙁

Not nice to watch.

The first time I did it was under slightly different circumstances:

We'd gone bush for some extended camping and blown the clutch trying to reverse up a track after I chickened out. :o

We set up camp after having a 4x4 tow me the last hundred metres up the track into a clearing, then got a lift home the next day to pick up a new clutch plate, tools, and another vehicle. So far so good. :thumb

This was in September, at about 800 metres altitude in the Baw Baw Ranges, so it was a bit on the chilly side and we'd started to have some light snow, so I'd done the right thing and built up a nice roaring fire so Heather and our friend Jo could keep nice and warm while I worked on the kombi.

I'd never pulled a motor from a kombi before, but I had no choice, so I jacked it up onto a couple of slabs of firewood and dropped the motor right where we'd set up camp.

Everything was going ok - I'd disconnected the throttle cable, the fuel hose, the wiring, the engine mounts and the bellhousing bolts, and was trying to get the motor to drop, but it wouldn't. In sheer frustration I climbed under the car near the gearbox and was reefing up and down on the motor trying to make it drop down (with a jack in place under it). 😠

What I didn't realise was that being a fuel-injected motor, it also had a return line from the fuel rail to the tank, and the motor was actually hanging from this hose. When it finally came loose, I got covered with 1/2 a tank of Mobil's finest. So here I was, wearing a thick fleece jumper absolutely soaked with petrol, stuck under the car about 10 metres away from a roaring fire with flames about as tall as me. :o:o:o

I was lucky to get away with it, but the fire was kept a lot smaller after that! 😉

I ended up putting the entire 'new' carby on, after pulling it apart three times to get rid of the remnants of the mud-wasps that have obviously inhabited it at some stage. :o

Still, it runs like a bag of crap! 😠

I took it for a test drive anyway, and realised when I got to the bottom of the driveway that I hadn't reconnected the hose to the brake booster :o which was allowing an air leak into the intake balance pipe. Easily fixed though. :thumb

Still, it runs like a bag of crap! 😠

Rechecked the tappet clearances roughly, because the motor was warm, and found an adjuster that I obviously hadn't tightened properly. :o

Still, it runs like a bag of crap! 😠

Pulled all the plugs leads off and tested them with a spare plug, all ok. I unplugged all the leads and reconnected them one at a time and turned the motor over - cylinders 3 & 4 still aren't firing up, but it's not the spark. Obviously I still have a carby problem. 😠😠😠

I give up. The accelerator pump works, the needle and seat are clear, the main jet is clear, and it idles. It runs quite smoothly, but I haven't got anything like the sort of power I should have. 🙁 I've called my ex-mechanic (now retired) and I'm taking it around to him today after work, so hopefully it will be something simple.

Getting impatient and running out of time... :bounce:bounce:bounce

As I'd hoped, it was something simple. I'd left the linkage off the LH carb last time I refitted it!!!

Drove home this arvo and he was running sweet!!! :thumb:thumb:thumb

I'm one very happy kombi owner now 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

I still have to fix an idle solenoid that isn't working and recheck the valve clearances, then John is going to check the tuning for me when I get home from school camp on Friday. :thumb

Now I have to buy a new battery, fit my fat steering wheel and dual power outlet, remove some seats, change the rear wheel bearings and maybe even put a headliner in it if I have time. At least the important bit is worked out though, I will get to Nambucca!!! 😀:thumb😀:thumb😀:thumb😀:thumb😀

KruizinKombi wrote:As I'd hoped, it was something simple. I'd left the linkage off the LH carb last time I refitted it!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Col you have made my day!!!!

Sorry pal - that broke me up
Yep something simple

Now go and sit on the back step, lay back with a beer, smoke, cup of tea and reflect! :thumb:thumb

Congratulations dude!!!

Great news Col, we'll have a beer in Nambucca Heads! We should be there mid-afternoon on Friday.

Remember to give it an oil change before you hit the road.

WELL DONE COLLIN !

you gotta be happy with that !
its always somwething simple aint it....

Skewster...:bounce

Just thought I'd add my 2c worth on manuals. If you're serious about doing major work on any motor vehicle, you need all the literature you can lay hands on. You can get by with one GOOD manual but the more the better.

Factory manuals are generally the best (as you might expect) with no "Refer to your local XXXXXX dealer" crap. They've generally got information on making any special tools you need and cover EVERY operation you're likely to carry out.

As for aftermarket manuals, I've generally found Haynes to be the best although their quality varies depending on which Haynes staffer actually researched and wrote it. They also seem to be deteriorating as I've been rather unimpressed by a couple of their latest (not VW) offerings. I think the rot set in when they stopped putting those beautifully detailed cutaway drawings on the cover. Their current Beetle offering is flimsily bound and printed on bog paper but seems to be technically OK albeit published mainly for the US market.

Autobooks seem to be OK, largely because they reproduce quite substantial sections of the factory offerings (at least for the ones (again, non VW) I've seen.

Not to be confused with Autobooks are Autodata. If you see one of these, cheap, let me know 'cos I'm looking for something to line the cats' litter box.:puke. 'Nuff said.

As for Gregorys, I haven't seen the Kombi offering but I'd put the two I have used marginally above Autodata in that I might be persuaded to wrap fish and chips in them if nothing else was available. Very, very ordinary though it pains me to say it about a local product.

Another useful item to have is a factory parts book. Very useful for the exploded diagrams they contain so you can see if everything's there on your particular vehicle. Also handy for checking interchangeability with likely donor vehicles if you've got something a bit oddball.

Like I said, my 2c and probably worth about what you paid for it.

Pat

Cool mate, congrats on the fine job. Been following along from work.

Hope I have a student that Emails me when I get the dreaded lugie.

Had about six kids checking out the Dog-O-War photos on stockton the other day in the computer labs -asking me this and that. Probably just to get out of what they were supposed to be doing.

🙁 My bad news is I doubt I can get to Valla. The Dog-O-War definately won't be ready as it's taken a week to get the electrics done. Hopefully they will be finished tomorrow. I have to go to Sydney for workshopping Drama. It's all beeen organised and there is no getting out of it. It's on the Saturday so deepending on finances I might go from Sydney up to Coffs Saturday night but I will probably be too tired making coming south to Dubbo Sunday after the BBQ pretty dangerious driving.

Will see how I am Saturday. I will have either a department car or take the Forester. The department may no like me circumnavigating coastal NSW over a weekend in one of their vehicles. Forester has better seats and cruise anyhow!

:bounce Regardless I'm pissed off! 😠

Good to hear you got it worked out Col.

My rule of thumb is; if I,m not bleeding, I haven't done it properly.

As to the original subject, I only have two gripes with manuals.
Firstly, they don't tell you you need to be double jointed to get some of the bolts.
And second, when EVERY nut, screw & bolt on a VW is metric, why are the point, plug & tappet settings given as imperial??

Because most VW literature is now written for the US market and Americans, until recently, had difficulty in obtaining or even understanding metric tools and measuring instruments.

Pat

Hi, I just did my first engine swap - but I started with a head-to-head long block. Mostly went very smoothly.

Here are some things I noted:
* to get the splines to mate, I had to engage 2nd gear (or any gear) to prevent the GB input shaft from turning. Otherwise I could turn the engine all I wanted and the splines never mated...
* Cleaning all the tinware takes a full day with a brush and a bucket of turps.
* Tinware screws are M6.
* Stupid fuel pump XZN socket (or whatever) are M8.
* If in doubt, reach for the 13mm.
* Using the supplied thick (~5mm) gaskets under the inlet manifolds results in carby positions which are too far apart for my linkage (all stock). Therefore, assume these are for a different motor (1700 or 2l?). After all, the previous motor didn't have them.
* I have a heat exchanger with uneven mating surfaces (to the head). It's an aftermarket Danish one. Putting a straight level across the taller pipe shows that there is approximately a 2-3mm (!!!) difference in heights, but they appear parallel. Is this normal? It means that I can't seal it against the exhaust port, which would be bad. I take it that the pipe ends SHOULD be level ("http://www.bostonengine.com/articles/hbmanifold.htm"). Shall I have it machined flat?

That's all, cool hey? I can't wait to see how it goes! (EDIT🙂 I've now just gotta sort out the freakin' heat exchanger. Been under there for about a day, filing off metal from the _sides_ of the pipes where it interferes with the new AMC heads, the tops are still not level.

Cheers, A.

[ Edited on 27-12-06 by aggri1 ]

The bakelite gaskets you speak of are for EFI intake runners and shouldnt be used on a carbed engine. You shouldnt be ABLE to use them, the manifold studs should be too short.

Heat exchangers always need a bit of a draw file to get them flat again, though yours sound way out there in the extreme. You'll need to get them very close to flat and square if you are going to get a good seal with the copper ring gaskets, and make sure they are annealed. The faces that mate with the muffler are always pretty shagged too. I always cheat with those and use a grinder, plus a liberal coating of exhaust sealer. Nothing worse than hearing a kombi go by with leaking exhaust. A pet hate of mine.