With all the talk lately about speed cameras and other topics on AVD, I have to say that I dont believe speed kills.
I have just up until recently spent the last 15 years as a copper and with the last 5 years I have been involved in serious and fatal collisions all around the state. And my thoughts are that it is the bad bloody drivers and/or their decisions that cause the collisions and deaths and not necessary their speed. People still die when collisions occur under the speed limits and these are still because of bad decisions. But these are not reported as separate collisions not involving speed. Statistics are there for the people that want to manipulate them and I have seen that done.
If speed kills, why have I just finished watching on TV the motor bike racing from the 'Isle of Man'. These are roads where the normal limits would range from 50-100kmph. Well how come motor bikes can do up to 175 MILES an hour and they are not dead. The speed didn't kill them, but had they made a bad decision or misjudged the roads then this would be different.
I just hate how the Government push the point that literally 'Speed Kills' and I don't agree. I fully understand the point they are trying to put across, but think they are wrong.
As a copper I have legally (lights and siren) exceeded the speed limit as a driver and passenger and this occurs every day by other police officers and will continue to occur. Yes there are the odd accidents, but 'no' the speed doesn't kill cops every day, maybe not even once a year. And just to clarify, I have been directly involved in the investigations of police cars involved in collisions where an officer has been killed.
And the TV add where the girl holds up her little pinky finger when a guys speeds past, I can't see how making out a person has a small penis has anything to do with how you drive. Does this mean men with large cocks are slow drivers, not at all. And if a woman drivers fast, what part of our anatomy do we hold up then?
I will say quite clearly, that I don't agree we should be able to drive at whatever speed we want and I am truly sorry to anyone out there that has lost someone to any road accident or for any other reason for that matter.
I just don't agree with all the speed limits and I think driver education and car handling courses should be taken more seriously and pushed as mandatory requirements to get a license and once a year from then on.
As police officers you go through extensive driver training, but this still doesn't make all police officer great drivers and I am not for one minute saying I am a great driver. I just cant see why its ok for police do drive at up to 100kmph over the speed limit and every other person on the road can get a speeding fine if you are doing 8-9kmph over the limit. I know that some police management will say they don't allow their officers to drive more than 30kmph over the limit, but in the real world this doesn't happen nor can it happen.
I did a 4-6 week stint in highway patrol and I have to say that these guys are the worst offenders of speeding and are one of the biggest hypocrites within the cops. There are others, but that is another story. I have not been able to voice my thoughts really until recently, but for as long as I can remember I have disagreed with the speed limits and that speed kills.
Please remember, we are all entitled to an opinion and this is an open forum for discussion. So please feel free (as you are) to respond whether you agree or not. But keep in mind the area I have worked in and why I have this opinion.
Cheers, Kev
P.S. These are my personal views and not as a representative of the Police Force.
STIDUB ·
ive been doing... highway speeds for 2 days from bris 2 melb, now heading home, only time i was concerned about speedo more than the road/traffic around me was in F***** victoria, their system of suprise cameras & such is horrid, they lie too, "saftey cameras in use in vic" bullshit, you can rip skids infront of them, no photo, have an accident in front of, no photo, tailgate, no photo, speed 10k over the limit... yep photo. i watched them flash the cars ahead of me repeatedly
oh and kev, its not the speed, its the sudden stop 🙂 have avoided those so far(no im not driving currently)
HappyDaze ·
Geez Kev, That's been brewing away for a few years by the look of it - bet it feels good to get that off your chest.👍
Couldn't agree more, mate, and I commend you for having the 'guts' to put all that down!👍
Cheers, Greg
grogy ·
umm well it can if u goin really fast n hit a tree. but i some what agree wit u sentiments. license testing should involve judgement for distance speed/ time etc. people learn how to drive without any idea of how fast a car coming toward them is travelling, hence no idea if its safe to go or not. no judgement as to how close another car is, hence waiting for no reason or not moving fast enuff so as not to cause the other driver a problem. we need speed limits, but more flexibilty in enforcing the law would be much fairer. and a better licensing system would be better. something that would involve judgement decisions. my2cents worth
HappyDaze ·
The secret is DON"T HIT A TREE!
matberry ·
Wow, big post Kev, on a big subject. I couldn't agree more, as a certain alertness is required when driving and when trying to sustain this at 100km/h isn't easy. There was a post in the speed camera thread recently with a good explanation of what I'm saying. And also there's fact that driving in Australia these day's, you need to spend a high percentage of your time/focus on watching the bloody speedo as there's so little leeway with going over the limit 👎👎👎.
Anyway, good on ya Kev.
helbus ·
People should take driving more seriously.
It is not your loungeroom. Not a place for phone calls, SMS, iPod fiddling, CD changing, mascara or lipstick fashion time.
Two hands on the wheel, use your eyes, mirrors, brains and think about what you are doing.
That is why the racecar riders and drivers do some extreme driving, The milliseconds decisions based on concentration, instead of daydreaming.
If you are driving on the road, concentrate on the road and what is happening around you.
ancientbugger ·
Totally agree with you Kev about the drivers, up here they keep blaming the roads and there's nothing wrong with them just people who try to overtake at exactly the wrong time and/or place and when it doesn't kill them it kills somebody else. Glad you got it off your chest👍
68AutoBug ·
Good One Kev...
every time someone makes a mistake on Our roads and someone dies...
its all speed.... !!
many accidents happened in the country when its raining... drivers under the speed limit...
but on a slippery smooth surface on a corner...
car goes under a truck.... fatalities... yes
but its well known locally , the driver had a big fight with His family, put His family into the car and drove off...
so, it wasn't Speed Kills....
it was an irate driver kills...
anyway... good one Kev..
Lee
beetleboyjeff ·
I totally agree as well Kev, especially with far better driver training and recurrent testing.
As a young bloke I did a lot of gravel road and country road driving, and it gave you a very good idea of what the car was capable of, when it was liable to start to lose traction, what actions would make you lose control, and how to tell as soon as things were starting to go wrong and what you needed to do immediatly to rectify the situation. This was all before 100kmh limits, and I used to drive between 120 and 140kmh all the time.
Ever since they brought in 100kmh limits, I have struggled to keep concentration and suffer from fatigue when driving, because instead of constantly monitoring your speed in relation the road or weather conditions, you are now 'veging' away doing very little except checking the speedo to see if you are doing the posted limit, even though it usually bears no relation to the road or weather conditions.
The suggestions that you should do nothing else except "concentrate on your driving" is all very well, but when there is nothing within a bulls roar to concentrate on, it makes concentration very difficult to sustain for any long period. I usually get lollies that I have to open, play car number plate names or all sorts of other things to stop my mind going into 'screen saver' mode.
volumex ·
Good posts. Just this afternoon I drove past a Honda S2000 that had speared off the road into a fence, just after taking a corner. It had been raining lightly on and off all day, and genius had obviously got on the power way too early, lost traction and headed straight into the bushes. He is exceptionally unlikely to have been speeding, he just had insufficient car skills.
i agree that the system of driving training we now have is totally inadequate - except whichever government implements an appropriate system with licensed driving trainers, simulators to train and test all aspects of driving and recurrent testing will probably make themselves very unpopular - would be unlikely to risk their next election on it. Shame really - so many people get killed every year on our roads and our fickle politicians have the power to do something about it - they just lack the testicular fortitude to do so.
1500S ·
beetleboyjeff wrote:I totally agree as well Kev, especially with far better driver training and recurrent testing.
As a young bloke I did a lot of gravel road and country road driving, and it gave you a very good idea of what the car was capable of, when it was liable to start to lose traction, what actions would make you lose control, and how to tell as soon as things were starting to go wrong and what you needed to do immediatly to rectify the situation. This was all before 100kmh limits, and I used to drive between 120 and 140kmh all the time.
Ever since they brought in 100kmh limits, I have struggled to keep concentration and suffer from fatigue when driving, because instead of constantly monitoring your speed in relation the road or weather conditions, you are now 'veging' away doing very little except checking the speedo to see if you are doing the posted limit, even though it usually bears no relation to the road or weather conditions.
The suggestions that you should do nothing else except "concentrate on your driving" is all very well, but when there is nothing within a bulls roar to concentrate on, it makes concentration very difficult to sustain for any long period. I usually get lollies that I have to open, play car number plate names or all sorts of other things to stop my mind going into 'screen saver' mode.
You need to get out in the Volkswagen a bit more Jeff! After the cars of today only idling over at around 1900 RPM/110kmh the VW seems busy at 3500 RPM plus for the same speed. Not sure I can handle the noise going north on Friday! 🙅
Agreed on the coppers re some of them breaking plenty of road rules but hell bent on pinging others. First hand knowledge on this!
1. Fail to stop at stop signs because "what a stupid place to put that"
2. U-turns in the main street of a big country town north of Lee when the sign clearly showed NO U-TURN.
3. Continually breaking speed limit.
4. Going through red lights. How do I know this??!! Because HE was driving my daughters car and as it was registered in my name I got a bill! Mind you that got sorted out bloody quick! 😂
The list goes on Camo as you would know. Lucky we have better cars now as well as better roads as there are only half the people getting killed now in NSW as there were per year in the late 60s, early 70s with about twice the population now.
DH
vlad01 ·
beetleboyjeff wrote:I totally agree as well Kev, especially with far better driver training and recurrent testing.
As a young bloke I did a lot of gravel road and country road driving, and it gave you a very good idea of what the car was capable of, when it was liable to start to lose traction, what actions would make you lose control, and how to tell as soon as things were starting to go wrong and what you needed to do immediatly to rectify the situation. This was all before 100kmh limits, and I used to drive between 120 and 140kmh all the time. Ever since they brought in 100kmh limits, I have struggled to keep concentration and suffer from fatigue when driving, because instead of constantly monitoring your speed in relation the road or weather conditions, you are now 'veging' away doing very little except checking the speedo to see if you are doing the posted limit, even though it usually bears no relation to the road or weather conditions.
The suggestions that you should do nothing else except "concentrate on your driving" is all very well, but when there is nothing within a bulls roar to concentrate on, it makes concentration very difficult to sustain for any long period. I usually get lollies that I have to open, play car number plate names or all sorts of other things to stop my mind going into 'screen saver' mode.
This is a bit one for me too, but more that fact that all cars now are made for lazy people. After I converted my commodore to manual, I found its made me like 5 fold more alert and constantly thinking about driving not vegging out with cruse on.
1303Steve ·
Hi
Good post Kevin.
The reason that the government concentrate on speed so much is that it can be measured and acted on, cross a set speed and your gone.
Unfortunately nobody has made an automatic dickhead detector yet, if they did the RTA and government would jump onto it right away.
By dickhead I mean the people in the right lane on freeways or over 80 kph zones, the idiots that jump in front of trucks as they preparing to stop at lights, people that are obviously lost and drive along looking for house numbers at 20 - 30 kph under the limit oblivious to those behind them, I could go on.
I suppose that there used to be dickhead detectors, they drove around in police cars, they seem to be few and far between these days.
Steve
bajachris88 ·
But are the laws of speed for our safety or simply a basic implementation for a bit of revenue?
Is it only a myth or is it tru that the cops get bonus'es for dishing out fines?
Law and justice are 2 very different things.
btw i agree solely on the original post. the majority of acidents are related to driver error rather than mechanical failure, and speed is not error, its how its handled that makes u hit that tree or drive through someones house.
HappyDaze ·
Congratulations Kev, on an 'award-winning' post - if there is such a thing. People are responding with their own ideas and experiences, which is really great. I like Steve's 'dick-head detector' idea - how much better would that be than a radar gun in preventing accidents?
I say 'accidents' because that's what they are called, but are they? An accident is something that could not be avoided, is it not?
Having driven thousands of miles in vintage (pre 1931) cars, I agree that today's cars are so comfortable, quiet, and just plain boring, that it's hard to keep awake when you are floating along at mind-numbing speeds. In the 'old' car you are busy at all times, fiddling with ign. timing, mixture, etc. The ride, handling, and wind alone make sure that you never doze off!
What can we do about all this? Who knows, but at least we are talking about it, and that is at least something positive.👍 Thank you Kevin.
Cheers, Greg
Purple Martin ·
The faster you are going the less time you have to react, therefore a crash is more likely if you go faster.
The faster you are going the more serious any crash will be.
So yes: more speed makes it more likely that someone will be killed. To try to pretend otherwise is stupid. Slow down and save lives.
bajachris88 ·
Yea but if someone was unco enough to drive off a cliff at 5km/h, its not speed that kills them, its stupidity.
I don't think anyone is saying to go 200kmph down the m1, i think the suggestion here is that too much focus and $ is put on speeding cameras which don't stop people speeding till a month later when they recieve the fine in the mail, rather its about educating drivers properly so they can at the very least handle normal road speeds.
The 'racing car driver' analogy was proof that with proper training, it doesn't matter what speed your doing, you can ensure your own survival.
beachbuggy61 ·
Nice words and thoughts in your post, Kev. Well done.
I just (over the past three years) taught my three daughters how to drive (last one still on L Plates) and I've tried to impress upon them the importance of concentration and treating driving as a priveiledge rather than a right which is what the late Mr Brock once told me at a driving course I did.
My youngest is as keen as mustard to really drive a car properly and that lead me to thinking that she should join a car club like I did when I was in my late teens and early twenties so that we could do lap dash's and super sprints in our road cars (that we'd spent some time hotting-up) and really learn so much about car control. The trouble is that nowadays there aren't the facilities that we had then. Where are the replacements for Amaroo Park (lap dash, dirt circuit and hillclimb), Oran Park, and even the one in Katoomba that I can't remember the name of? At least we will be able to do some laps of Eastern Creek I suppose, but it doesn't have the same feel as the variety available when I was using them every second weekend. Ooops, now I sound like an old fart harping on about the good ole days, but I do think we have to educate young drivers about the responsibility of learning real car control, as wel as an outlet for the rev-head in all of us! I know that when I used to drive home from Amaroo on a Sunday afternoon, all of the joy of the day's racing had me driving nice and slow!
Driving is an art that cannot just be learnt driving mum to Westfield and back to get up your hours. Concentration is key.
I'm Kent Brockman, and that's MY two cents... 👍
ryana89 ·
bajachris88 wrote:Yea but if someone was unco enough to drive off a cliff at 5km/h...
😂
rob53 ·
Great post Kev, I support your argument 100%.
Soon people are going to be just watching there speedos rather than the road and accidents and road tolls will go up. Then the government will reduce the speed limits because 'speed kills' and eventually we will all be chuffing along the freeways at a blisteringly fast 40km/h.
I see almost every weekend a new saftey camera in campbelltown that causes so many near misses with people afraid to go through the lights on amber or speed up to get through. It's definitely increasing safety 🤪 with so many new accidents at that intersection.
This government is so corrupt and is looking for any possible way to tax people. If only everyone united and kick these !@#$'s out.
HappyDaze ·
You are right about the lack of venues for developing driving skills, Kent (it was Catalina Park at Katoomba, by the way), and nothing seems to be improving - in NSW at least.👎
When my two sons got their licences at age 17, we sent them straight to Peter Finlay's Advanced Driving School - a good move. Now in their 40's, they both enjoy good driving records, and their motorsport.👍
Driver education and the development of driving skills are sadly neglected, instead of being encouraged! SHAME on those in control.👎
Cheers, Greg
P.S........ Sorry to keep on about this, but I do feel strongly about the dangers and lack of ability on the road. It would not be tolerated in the 'workplace'.
Purple Martin ·
bajachris88 wrote:Yea but if someone was unco enough to drive off a cliff at 5km/h
ahh but if they'd only been doing 3km/h they might have been able to stop before the cliff 😉
bajachris88 ·
haha good call Martin i didn't see that coming 😁
beachbuggy61 ·
Catalina! That's right! Even remember some go-karting around there too!
Camo ·
Thanks for all the feedback and am glad to read all of the responses, now if we could only get through to the people responsible - fat chance and then there is no common sense used when these people do get these jobs.
Purple Martin - As I said, was happy to hear responses for and against. I fully understand your point about the cliff senario, but think if you were traveling along a street and because you were driving 4-5kmph faster than the speed limit this in fact saved you from getting T-Boned from some idiot not driving to his ability or the conditions. Then the speed would have actually saved you.
There is always 2 ways to look at everything and like bajachris88 said and I, we are not talking about driving at 200kmph.
Also bajachris88, there was no bonus or reward in the NSW Police to get extra tickets so I say it is just a myth. But some coppers do have competitions against each another to see whom can outdo whom. But still no reward incentives.
Thanks all, Kev
HappyDaze ·
Purple Martin wrote:
bajachris88 wrote:Yea but if someone was unco enough to drive off a cliff at 5km/h
ahh but if they'd only been doing 3km/h they might have been able to stop before the cliff 😉
ahh but if they'd been really smart, they wouldn't even have a car. I suppose they could be struck by lightning while walking along the cliff-top. Oh well, sooner or later, you've gotta go I suppose.🥲
Sides ·
The thing that's always amazed me is on the news they always say "police believe that speed may have been a factor"... yes of course it was a factor, if he was going slower he MAY have stopped sooner and MAY have had a lesser impact. Forget the speed related MAY's tho... improving driver training and testing MAY have stopped the accident happening in the first place, but govt never goes anywhere near that one !!!
Also on speed camera's now being "traffic safety cameras".... to me there's a major flaw there that they only measure to the speed limit, and don't do anything at all about road conditions, so how the hell are they monitoring safety !?!?!
The only place I've seen that does take conditions conditions into account is the uphill section of the F3 North bound near Brooklyn where it's a 100 limit in the dry, and 90 in the wet... and the camera's supposedly know and record against this. Thing is, in almost 10 years of commuting up and down that road when it was 110 limit I don't think I ever saw an accident in that section in either the wet or the dry !!! The downhill section on the South bound side yes, but never the North bound.
I've never seen anything attempted about the other factors in conditions... visibility, amount of traffic on the road etc.
To me if the money taken from speed cameras was 100% spent on improving the roads, driver education etc. rather than just going into government coffers, I think there'd be a lot less distrust and anger about speed cameras full stop.
Sides ·
Oh and hey - the new "mobile speed cameras" that they have now in NSW, where the govt has promoted how they're using 6 Ford Territory's, and the news images show they have very obvious flash lights and other gizmo's on the roof.
If they were serious about improving safety... why didn't they use 6 cars all different but the same models as normal govt fleet cars, and then sticker that 6 plus EVERY OTHER govt fleet car the same with very obvious "I COULD BE A SPEED CAMERA" type signage on all four sides ???
Then for very little cost you have the exact same revenue as the 6 Territory's, but the increased awareness benefit as if it was several thousand speed camera cars. Can't tell me that wouldn't make a difference to people's driving behaviour !!!
👍
57 Cal look ·
100% correct .... Speed doesn't kill , its the really sudden stop when you hit something.
somebody had to say it ....🤪
vlad01 ·
My biggest issue is the people around me. They are scary as hell. tailgating at 115 during severe storm at 8 at night when you cant see even 5m 🙅🙅
The worst part was that 8/10 people that day were doing it. I just pulled over to the right lane and stayed there coz my car was aqua planing over 70 in the shinny left lane.
lol then I got a few people get pissed at me coz when they got level with my car the pulled into the right lane to overtake when I am in the right lane even though the left lane was wide open
with no car? ?????????? force of habit?? I don't know people are f**ked
I ride my bike and the train to work now. I am afraid for my car🥲......hmm and my life to I guess.
jsheppard64 ·
as everyone said besides the guy who disagree
It's usually driver's inability to handle the vehicle and pay attention to the road, signs and signals
and temporary lapse in judgement
amazeer ·
My sister was near a fatality at 10kmh, doing a u turn on a bend with double lines, got hersefl t-boned.
Judging from my own news report barometer road deaths are mainly in 2 categories.
Under 25's particularly males are typically in the single vehicle hit tree/powerpole category. Fairly often its the passengers that are killed not the driver. This could vary rarely be blamed on anything but speed. The car didnt leave the road because it is going too slow. You could argue that it was the drivers fault because he didnt have the sense to slow for the bend or the skill to get around it. But you can be sure that if you raised the speed limit on roads that the average speed would increase and there would be more drivers slidig off the road.
The over 25's seem to be eliminating themselves and misfortunate innocents mostly in overtaking manouvres. The Princes and Pacific Highways Picton and Appin Roads are littered with head on collisions. Why? I dont think the roads are that bad. There's a line up the middle and you just need to keep to the left of that line if there are cars coming the other way. People just cant judge the distance it seems. If you raise the speed limits not everyone is going to go faster. Plenty of people dont do the existing speed limit. I know people on this forum who wont do 110 on the freeway. I've been to NT twice before they reigned in the speed limits. After the initial "lets see what she'll do" moments I just settled on around 130. Other people would have settled on 150-160, people with caravans would have settled on 100. So when some people are doing 80 and others are doing 130 you will get even more misjudgements and more people killed.
I agree that speed doesnt kill in all cases and that it is possible for it to be OK. People just need to slow down for bends and when they get caught behind a slow car just be patient enough to not gamble on an overtaking move. But unfortunately we have to make laws for the lowest common denominator. I think we'r elucky that we arent quite at the low level.
amazeer ·
Trying to use motorsport as any justification is just silly. There are several fatalities every year in this country due to motorsport crashes. And thats in an environment when all the cars (should) be travelling in the same direction, they've all got helmets and harnesses on and full cages. Pretty much every time you watch a race on TV there is an accident that would have been a fatality in a road car or at best a serious injury. Mark Webber is on borrowed time, he has walked away from 2 potentially fatal cars that have taken flight. Mark Skaife came extremely close at Eastern Creek when he didnt make turn one and went straght ahead. His commodore twisted and bent like cheese despite having 100 metres of chrome moly cage. Craig Lowndes had a major rollover at Calder Park. Peter Brock (who incidently had an appalling driving record so there goes the argument that more race tracks would naturally slow people down) is no longer with us, Ayrton Senna no longer with us...
bajachris88 ·
1st hand experience my first acident was involving speed... but i was stupid enough to do that on such a road... if i knew my limits, i wouldn't have done that speed. Like as though that SPEED was a result/biproduct of my LACK OF training and knowledge.
the 2nd acident only happened to be a tyre squealing near miss, at a steady 70km wide open road... with a large tip truck swerving into my lane while i was there... Those wheel nuts were 10 cm from my drivers window...
amazeer ·
Might get in trouble for a triple post here, but the over 65's seem to get themselves into a lot trouble too. Always hearing of them driving out the driveway and into the house across the road, off the top of mult level car parks, through the garage wall and into the swimming pool, from a standstill onto footpaths and running over pedestrians.
amazeer ·
bajachris88 wrote:1st hand experience my first acident was involving speed... but i was stupid enough to do that on such a road... if i knew my limits, i wouldn't have done that speed. Like as though that SPEED was a result/biproduct of my LACK OF training and knowledge.
This is because you're a young schmuck and would have pushed your limits even if they had been tattood in 18 point Arial across your forehead!!! I can say this categorically because I was a young schmuck once with dozens of young scmuck mates who did exactly the same. Only difference to the dead guys and us is luck.
HappyDaze ·
amazeer wrote:Might get in trouble for a triple post here, but the over 65's seem to get themselves into a lot trouble too. Always hearing of them driving out the driveway and into the house across the road, off the top of mult level car parks, through the garage wall and into the swimming pool, from a standstill onto footpaths and running over pedestrians.
Over 65's? Who's next on your hit list - Women? Gays? Asians?
Who are you to be making judgments, and 'casting the first stone'?
bajachris88 ·
OK yea ur right . i agree... luck certainly gave me a good learnin lesson...
fair statement.
amazeer ·
HappyDaze wrote:
amazeer wrote:Might get in trouble for a triple post here, but the over 65's seem to get themselves into a lot trouble too. Always hearing of them driving out the driveway and into the house across the road, off the top of mult level car parks, through the garage wall and into the swimming pool, from a standstill onto footpaths and running over pedestrians.
Over 65's? Who's next on your hit list - Women? Gays? Asians?
Who are you to be making judgments, and 'casting the first stone'?
Ummm OK, would it help if I revise it to make it over 75's? I'm just making it up out of the memories of my mind.. radio, tv, newspaper, internet news.
AND THEN i searched for elderly head on crash and they were all elderly people. AND THEN I searched for "elderly 40 year old male p plate head on tree carpark collision" and came back with nothing relevant so there beit the first stone.
I just dont recall often or ever hearing about a "person of mature age and multiple years of driving experience" losing control of their car on a bend and hitting a power pole or tree. Surely you cant be saying thats not P plater domain. I attempted it a few times myself back then, havent done it since. Not even close.
But I do hear maybe every six months of someone in that category having a spot of bother due to selecting the wrong gear.
The web search of Princes Highway head on colision proves nothing of my assumption though, they were mostly mid 20's where an age is given.
HappyDaze ·
I've often wondered why 'The Lawmakers', who we assume are intelligent people, can often get it so wrong. After reading that, I think I know now.
Camo ·
Time for me to chime in again. I know that first thoughts always go towards speed, but the speed that was occurring at the time might have been alright if the tyres weren't bald, brakes worked correctly and driver ability.
I am going to show you a few photos of only a handful of cars that I have examined were I don't remember speed to be a factor, but looking at the photos you would think it was.
If any of these photos offend anyone or you may know the vehicle, please let me know and I will remove them.
This photo, you can obviously see there is no visible damage and it was only traveling about 30kmph at impact. Ran over a car going the opposite way and one of those front wheels ended up sitting on the driver of the other car. The crane was not roadworthy and far from it and I think arrogance played a part. And the car it ran over was stopped as he had no where to go.
This next one was a small car with a lot of balls and he was road testing it after doing work on it. Gave it a gut full of juice and lost control. Got t-boned and passenger whom was sitting on a milk crate seriously injured.
This one below, the driver went to sleep and the poor innocent person is dead or seriously injured.
This one was in early hours of morning after finishing night shift and driving for hours. Was report of kangaroo and he tried to miss it ???
Camo ·
Continued :
This one was maybe inexperience as he was an 'L' driver.
This is one that effected me for some time. This car was stopped in traffic due to burning off in the area and smoke over the road. Idiot in truck made bad decision and drove into smoke not being able to see where he was going and hit the car.
This one below lost control in the wet, maybe lack of experience or bad judgment.
This driver is one of the luckiest buggers around. Was running from police for what ever reason and he got out of this with minor injuries. From memory, wasn't wearing a seat belt and got pushed into the back seat area.
The point I am making and only about these few prangs is that speed is not always a factor in serious injury or death collisions. They may (and I say MAY) have been driving over the limit, but if you don't have the ability or are driving a defective car (bald tyres in wet) what chance do you have once you get behind the wheel. You have already reduced your chances of a safe journey.
I just wanted some to see what can happen and maybe see why some things happen and not jump to conclusions. I hope this also may make some people think about these incidents the next time they get behind the wheel. But of course I know all VW drivers are responsible drivers :-)
I post this up with the belief that all these collision are old and have been before the courts and will not have any affect on court results. Again, if anyone is troubled by any photos please let me know.
Cheers, Kev.
Purple Martin ·
I'm genuinely surprised by the opinion of the majority of people replying to this topic.
Do you honestly disagree with the following statement?
"The faster you are going the less time you have to react, therefore a crash is more likely if you go faster."
Do you honestly disagree with this statement as well?
"The faster you are going the more serious any crash will be."
HappyDaze ·
Purple Martin wrote:I'm genuinely surprised by the opinion of the majority of people replying to this topic.
Do you honestly disagree with the following statement?
"The faster you are going the less time you have to react, therefore a crash is more likely if you go faster."
Do you honestly disagree with this statement as well?
"The faster you are going the more serious any crash will be."
Do YOU honestly disagree with this statement as well?
"The more alert, experienced, and skillful you are as a driver, the less chance you have of HAVING a crash".
Camo ·
As said by Purple Martin:
Do you honestly disagree with the following statement?
"The faster you are going the less time you have to react, therefore a crash is more likely if you go faster."
Purple, I don't disagree with the first part of your statement but have you ever thought as to why you are re-acting to something in the first place. If I'm driving along speeding at 5kmph over limit and a car fails to give way and pulls out in front of me and I hit him, is it my frigging fault - NO.
Do you honestly disagree with this statement as well?
"The faster you are going the more serious any crash will be."
Again, why do you assume that because someone is driving fast (your words) that they are going to have a crash. As I have said, you could be saved because you are going faster.
Look, I said in my very first post that I am not condoning driving like a lunatic flat out everywhere. I'm just believe that the speeds could be raised a fair bit in a lot of streets, roads, highways or judged by the current conditions.
In my 25 years + of driving, I have only every had one accident that was my fault. Was doing about 30kmph in a 60 zone and my then girlfriend said to look at something and I did. Well you can guess the next part, I ran up someones arse - no speed involved.
I just want people not to stereotype that all speeding (as defined by the law - anything over the limit) is dangerous and going to kill you.
Because Speed Doesn't Kill 99.9% of the time (my estimate only). If speed kills, 99.9% of drivers would be dead. Purple, you are missing the point sorry.
Kev
pete wood ·
I'm with Kev.
Drivers are not trained in australia. we look at a few pictures, reverse park, don't screw up on our Ls and all of a sudden the govt assumes we can handle a 200hp car on a wet twisty road lined with trees with 2 beers in us...
Yeah sure, I don't think so.
I've said it before. Most of the people on this forum polish their cars more effectively than drive them. What are you gonna do to change that and make yourself a driver instead of an owner? 😉
beetleboyjeff ·
I believe most people try to do the right thing and not break the law. It would seem, however, that a very large percentage of drivers speed at some stage (and often get booked for it), so it would appear that there is obviously big problems with the laws when so many law abiding citizens can't keep them.
shaihulud ·
I believe that we all should have to pass a difficult advanced driving test every time our licence is due for renewal.
P plate drivers should have to pass such a test to get out of L plates.
If anyone with a full licence fails the test they should have to go onto a full P plate, but call it an F plate.
We also need a new F plate which would have to be displayed by all drivers who have failed the advanced driving test. That would mean that we would be able to identify incompetent drivers and being warned, react accordingly.
Speed is not the problem unless it is really excessive.
The problem is driver competence or incompetence.
Camo ·
shaihulud wrote:Speed is not the problem unless it is really excessive.
The problem is driver competence or incompetence.
Well said.
Can I just add to the first of these quotes, I think in relation to the speed it also comes down to the current conditions. And I think under current conditions you should look at and include the road, the road surface and condition, the weather, the area you are in, tyres, drivers ability, the car and its ability, the way the vehicle is loaded, the car itself, your surrounding area - houses, pedestrians, time, other road users, the number of persons in the vehicle and anything else I haven't thought of.
One of the problems as I see it, is that years ago I drove in a street that was a 70 zone and now years later it dropped to a 50 zone and the street hasn't changed at all. The reason they drop the limit is just in case a child runs out onto the road and may get hit by the car. I have seen to much death during my policing career and I never want to see any child or person run over or hurt in any way.
But when they drop the speed limit in only one street alone, this effects thousands of drivers in a year on this one street alone and all for the possibility that a child may run out. In a nut shell, millions of drivers are victimised every day for the possibility that a child or person may be on the road. Whom are these roads made for.
Whilst I'm on a roll, road work speed limits are another thing that piss me off. Firstly, if people are working directly along side the path that you are taking I am all for slowing down. But when the road works are 20 feet off to the side of the road and the workers are behind a concrete barricade, why the F#@* do I need to slow down.
I have driven on many country roads in NSW were the tar road is not wide enough for 2 vehicles to pass. Yet the speed limit on this road in particular is still 100kmph. Why don't people crash on these roads, because they drive to the conditions and are watching for other cars.
Why is it ok to do 100kmph along a tree lined road, those trees are not going to move if I hit one. But if there was roadworks nearby, I would probably have do be doing 40-60kmph. Go figure.
Like the cops, the big bosses sitting up there in their offices should not make decisions for the coppers working on the street. Why, because they have no f#@*en idea what happens out on the street. And I think it is a similar thing with our roads.
Anyway, I am about to write to the Minister of roads and let him know what I think. Will it get me anywhere, probably not but at least I will have tried.
Kev
donn ·
We can all site particular areas / situations where the "rules" are just plain stupid, here's one for you that I told a person in authority about and till they went to see it personaly they all but called me a liar.
70 zone, so a fairly major road, changes into a 40 school zone with no school anywhere in sight, exit the school zone (still no school in sight) and less than 50 m further there's a weld mesh fence surrounding an infants school, proceed around the corner another 50 m and there's a school zone sign, now where's the logic in that, and while I am talking school zones I reckon that they are a good idea, little kids can be a bit unpredictable at times, but once they get to high school then they should be capable of using the roads sensibly, no school zones for high schools I reckon.
Someone in Darwin or the Teritory may be able to answer this one, last time I was up there I kinda recall that school zones were in force all day near schools, not just in the afternoon and morning, do I recall correctly?
Camo ·
Today Tonight on channel 7 in Sydney, just presented how the UK have removed speed cameras and talked about a state in the US that has done the same. They also mentioned in Queensland that since the introduction of new speed cameras in April this year that fatal collisions have risen.
They also commented that they can not tell which fatal accidents may have been caused by mobile phones, arguments, speed or just inattentive drivers.
I rest my case.
Kevin
Sorry for all the ear bashing :-)
.
modulus ·
I would propose the creation of a new "E" plate.
The "E" plate would denote an experienced driver who had passed the experienced (i.e. advanced) licence test. "E" plate drivers would be allowed leniency of 20 kph over the posted speed limit outside of built-up areas, subject to the judgement of the magistrate, i.e. in the majority of cases the magistrate would dismiss, purely on the basis of speeding (*not* for dangerous driving). "E" plate drivers might also have some other minor privileges, but would also have the obligation of driving in a manner which would inspire.
To qualify for an "E" plate, you have to pony up $1000 for the initial test and $250 every second year for re-testing, which is required to retain your "E" plate. This is not to make it a rich man's sport, but to pay for the significant costs involved in administering such a system of rigorous testing (wet skid pan, emergency braking, slalom, gravel road, braking in corners) etc. There are many fine details that would need to be sorted, but there are many fine minds on here who could contribute.
Driving with an "E" plate while not qualified for such would imply a hefty fine, say $1000.
Despite the effort and cost of obtaining an "E" plate, I think there would be an unmanageable queue for testing. Instead of crushing "hoons'" cars it is a positive step toward individuals taking greater personal responsibility for their actions and could even result in some positive outcomes for both disaffected drivers and desparate governments.
hth
amazeer ·
hahaha sorry, but not too many people would be prepared to rest a case on a tv report, even from Today Tonight despite it being the highly reputable masterpeice of investigative journalism that it is. TT and its rival ACA dont write news stories, they write pieces that are designed to enrage viewers by triggering an already red raw nerve in their target demographic.
If you listen to the NRMA the road toll is mostly to do with the road conditions. They spent a fortune on a Newspoll to tell them so. Its a major issue for 84% of voters. They cant really say its because of crap drivers, because crap drivers pay them their money. Eden Monaro is likely to be decided on the roads issue! Dont really care about the environment or the economy or superannuation or any of those other things down there apparently.
Joels72Lowlight ·
I think it all should come down to judgement. An experienced driver will know his limits and how fast he should go.
That way he can focus on the road rather than the speed limit!
TheMiniMan ·
Driver training should be Mandatory in schools ,,, SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!
& very "EARLY" in the primary school system too
this would basically eliminate the "Wank" factor,,, no one would feel the need to show-off at 17 years old,,, last year of school with school cert & sex & drugs & alcohol all being big factors to the "WAY" kids act ,,, it`s just not the time to start driving lessons... any wonder the insurance for under 25s is expensive yeah?
it all should be done way way early,, & every single kid should be involved
learning the basics of driving & learning those skills instinctively--> like walking & breathing ,,, as in you don`t need to think about your next action,,, it becomes "Natural"
Learning & experiencing the automotive & mechanical , repairs & maintenance etc, should also be part of the program,,, if people have a better understanding of what is actually happening with their car,,, the physics of it is all pretty damn easy,,, then everyone would "FEEL" their car more effectively & any mechainical issue with regards to wear & tear & breakages & wheel alignments & sloppy ball joints & steering problems could all be less of a cause to accidents also
this type of program would also encourage the "Boy-racers" to join a car club instead of showing-off on the road
most the other kids who are not interested in racing in car clubs, but have already learned from the program, wouldn`t encourage the idiots on the street, "BECAUSE" they all know where it should be done---> on the race track
there are soooo many benefits from creating a school based driver training program & yet the big 3--> Govt, schools & Insurance companies have no idea,,, & worse--> they don`t even want to know
what`s wrong with these people?????????????????????????
Mt Cooton driver training facility has recently started a course for schools , similar to what i have just described & is doing wonders... lets prey that more & more get involved & it turns it all around
Just imagine how cheap insurance would be for everyone without sooo many accidents
& how many lives would be saved simply because people would actually know how to drive more safely
Obviously there will still be accidents,,, there will always be accidents,,, that`s why they`re called accidents,,, but surely the numbers of accidents would be severely reduced ,,, & the severity of those accidents would "HAVE-TO" be less
isn`t it just simple common sense????
amazeer ·
Q1 how does someone know their limit without first exceeding it?
Q2 does driving safely include blasting down a residential street in an uninsured racing special?
HappyDaze ·
amazeer wrote:Q1 how does someone know their limit without first exceeding it?
Q2 does driving safely include blasting down a residential street in an uninsured racing special?
A1 You cannot know, however the place to find that limit is NOT on a public road, but in a controlled environment - such as a driver training centre.
A2 Absolutely not! Anyone who does that is an idiot.
toyvan ·
At first glance it’s easy to agree with the initial post.
However – as a former race car driver (Aust F2 Champion) and advanced and defensive driving instructor who has conducted over 1800 courses along with conducting police driver and pursuit training and a former paramedic I must disagree.
Firstly speed does influence the final impact – the higher the speed the greater the impact.
Most drivers are not trained at high speed response – so regardless of who instigated the collision the average driver (and even those who have had limited training) will not be able to successfully avoid a crash in a high speed emergency situation – lower the speed and the chances are one, or in the case of multiple vehicles, both drivers will be able to avoid the impact – or if impact is imminent – reduce the damage to both themselves and their vehicles.
Secondly – comparing driving in a controlled and regulated environment where all cars are going (most of the time) in the same direction as in motor racing to driving on the road is wrong.
Roads are thoroughfares through society – most, if not all, roads have pedestrians, other vehicles coming from all directions, distractions, intersections, lighting problems, adverse weather conditions, stop giveway and traffic signals, deposits on the road surface etc etc etc – none of which are flagged to the everyday motorist by a well placed flag marshal. The lower the speed at which all of these obstacles firstly encountered and then manoeuvred by the ordinary motorist the better the chance of avoidance of a crash.
I could go on – but I don’t want to sound like a prude.
Don’t get me wrong – going fast on a race track is the most exciting and exhilarating fun you can have – but advocating higher speeds on our roads is wrong – and it’s not until you experience the pain of losing a loved one through the stupid actions of a speeding driver (whether it be another driver or the actions of the one you lost) will you understand the futility of advocating high speeds in an completely uncontrolled environment like our roads.
As I said earlier – most drivers are not trained at high speed response – and those who have been properly would never risk their lives and those of their passengers by driving recklessly fast on a public road.
HappyDaze ·
toyvan wrote:At first glance it’s easy to agree with the initial post.
However – as a former race car driver (Aust F2 Champion) and advanced and defensive driving instructor who has conducted over 1800 courses along with conducting police driver and pursuit training and a former paramedic I must disagree.
Firstly speed does influence the final impact – the higher the speed the greater the impact.
Most drivers are not trained at high speed response – so regardless of who instigated the collision the average driver (and even those who have had limited training) will not be able to successfully avoid a crash in a high speed emergency situation – lower the speed and the chances are one, or in the case of multiple vehicles, both drivers will be able to avoid the impact – or if impact is imminent – reduce the damage to both themselves and their vehicles.
Secondly – comparing driving in a controlled and regulated environment where all cars are going (most of the time) in the same direction as in motor racing to driving on the road is wrong.
Roads are thoroughfares through society – most, if not all, roads have pedestrians, other vehicles coming from all directions, distractions, intersections, lighting problems, adverse weather conditions, stop giveway and traffic signals, deposits on the road surface etc etc etc – none of which are flagged to the everyday motorist by a well placed flag marshal. The lower the speed at which all of these obstacles firstly encountered and then manoeuvred by the ordinary motorist the better the chance of avoidance of a crash.
I could go on – but I don’t want to sound like a prude.
Don’t get me wrong – going fast on a race track is the most exciting and exhilarating fun you can have – but advocating higher speeds on our roads is wrong – and it’s not until you experience the pain of losing a loved one through the stupid actions of a speeding driver (whether it be another driver or the actions of the one you lost) will you understand the futility of advocating high speeds in an completely uncontrolled environment like our roads.
As I said earlier – most drivers are not trained at high speed response – and those who have been properly would never risk their lives and those of their passengers by driving recklessly fast on a public road.
This is why I feel that Kev's post is so good, even if you don't agree. 'toyvan' has done a wonderful job of highlighting the main problems, and even though the message may not get through to everyone, it shows that at least some people are concerned.👍
Notch Nut ·
Camo wrote:With all the talk lately about speed cameras and other topics on AVD, I have to say that I dont believe speed kills.
I have just up until recently spent the last 15 years as a copper and with the last 5 years I have been involved in serious and fatal collisions all around the state. And my thoughts are that it is the bad bloody drivers and/or their decisions that cause the collisions and deaths and not necessary their speed. People still die when collisions occur under the speed limits and these are still because of bad decisions. But these are not reported as separate collisions not involving speed. Statistics are there for the people that want to manipulate them and I have seen that done.
If speed kills, why have I just finished watching on TV the motor bike racing from the 'Isle of Man'. These are roads where the normal limits would range from 50-100kmph. Well how come motor bikes can do up to 175 MILES an hour and they are not dead. The speed didn't kill them, but had they made a bad decision or misjudged the roads then this would be different.
I just hate how the Government push the point that literally 'Speed Kills' and I don't agree. I fully understand the point they are trying to put across, but think they are wrong.
As a copper I have legally (lights and siren) exceeded the speed limit as a driver and passenger and this occurs every day by other police officers and will continue to occur. Yes there are the odd accidents, but 'no' the speed doesn't kill cops every day, maybe not even once a year. And just to clarify, I have been directly involved in the investigations of police cars involved in collisions where an officer has been killed.
And the TV add where the girl holds up her little pinky finger when a guys speeds past, I can't see how making out a person has a small penis has anything to do with how you drive. Does this mean men with large cocks are slow drivers, not at all. And if a woman drivers fast, what part of our anatomy do we hold up then?
I will say quite clearly, that I don't agree we should be able to drive at whatever speed we want and I am truly sorry to anyone out there that has lost someone to any road accident or for any other reason for that matter.
I just don't agree with all the speed limits and I think driver education and car handling courses should be taken more seriously and pushed as mandatory requirements to get a license and once a year from then on.
As police officers you go through extensive driver training, but this still doesn't make all police officer great drivers and I am not for one minute saying I am a great driver. I just cant see why its ok for police do drive at up to 100kmph over the speed limit and every other person on the road can get a speeding fine if you are doing 8-9kmph over the limit. I know that some police management will say they don't allow their officers to drive more than 30kmph over the limit, but in the real world this doesn't happen nor can it happen.
I did a 4-6 week stint in highway patrol and I have to say that these guys are the worst offenders of speeding and are one of the biggest hypocrites within the cops. There are others, but that is another story. I have not been able to voice my thoughts really until recently, but for as long as I can remember I have disagreed with the speed limits and that speed kills.
Please remember, we are all entitled to an opinion and this is an open forum for discussion. So please feel free (as you are) to respond whether you agree or not. But keep in mind the area I have worked in and why I have this opinion.
Cheers, Kev
P.S. These are my personal views and not as a representative of the Police Force.
My hat off to you. 👍
The latest trend in Victoria is to upgrade a road and usually downgrade the posted speed limit. This is usually followed up by having either a speed camera or cop armed with a radar device. It is all about raising revenue and nothing to do with safety or driver education.
3amigos ·
what a load of crap....how many of the members here needed ....defensive drivng courses....how to drive at speed courses...how to do this and that courses...bullshit courses...Driver training should be Mandatory in schools (yer like when)..bullshit..bullshit..bullshit....
Put the bloody blame back on the driver..he/she is the bloody driver....if they do not drive responible and crash...ITS there Fault....accidents are not bloody Accidents...SOMEONE is at fault.
if they stay within the road rules....they dont need the other bullshit....that is the key.....do the right thing...easy...
You cant put brains in bloody potplants...the QLD road test is designed for drivers to do stay within the road rules...and about 60% of the pot plants fudge up their log books....smart state...u bet..ldont make excuses for idiots....
jd
over a 1000 tests...80% pass rate...no fatalities....lic driving instructor
bajachris88 ·
So how does one train to dodge the idiots when put in padding behind a common driver training mob?
grip to the wheel and hope the padded dash does the job (if ur fortunate to have one)?
Its a mine field... when a soldier has to go through one, does he/she do it with just the only knowledge of how to use his gun? Does a driver trainer give the trainee the opportunity to handle the wet weather and know their limits and how to correct if limits are exceeded when even the recommended speed limits for corners on the yellow signs are still too excessive to handle appropriately on an oily road in the wet?
I have a friend who rekons her only solution when such a thing happens is to let go of the steering wheel and push and the brake then hope for the best... (after last yrs random wet season....) because the generic minimal requirements legally for getting ones licence aren't a full run through, otherwise she would understand.
I'm not being critical of you or ur methods, i'm just having a chilled debate and making queries and bringing in thoughts/ideas.
HappyDaze ·
Surely SOME form of advanced driver training (by someone who knows what they're doing) would be better than just 'learning by accident'?👎
71-BEETLE-SEDAN ·
And sticking to the speed limit.
People still crash while doing the speed limit.
It annoys me that newspeople hunt for p-plate accidents just to make them stand out. If they looked just as hard for full license crashes they would find alot more.
Might be a bit OT but had to get it out there.
bajachris88 ·
AND I HAVE THE SOLUTION!
compulsory sit and watch of this i say:
Followed by a skid park sesh :P
Warning, the vid is very graphic, not for the children. You will need to log into youtube to view it as its in the 18+ section to keep away from young eyes.
Chris.
donn ·
Very confronting, shows that most accidents are caused by idiot drivers (if we take all these examples into consideration, but if your the other bperson your just as dead. Luck?, Defensive driving techniques?, staying home ? we all take our lives in our hands every time we venture out as a driver, a passenger, or a pedestrian. I feel a bit nervouse now.
3amigos ·
look...look..look....look...and concentrate..dont drive up peoples butts...keep ur distance...give way...stop....and do the th**ken speed limit....not real hard ...can i have a show of hands when u last put on your hand brake..and if you did ..why??...
"Does a driver trainer give the trainee the opportunity to handle the wet weather and know their limits and how to correct if limits are exceeded when even the recommended speed limits for corners on the yellow signs are still too excessive to handle appropriately on an oily road in the wet"...
of course I do...BUT...its up to them to do it when they get their "P's"
AS for the dickheads up here giving preformance driving lessons..dont get me started...lol
Warning, the vid is very graphic, not for the children. You will need to log into youtube to view it as its in the 18+ section to keep away from young eyes.
Chris.
Yes, very graphic and I think that not only new young drivers should see this, but all drivers. It definitely makes you think twice, but these are things I have been seeing for the last 5-6 years at work everyday.
Within this video I haven't counted at all or even watched it a 2nd time, but I think most (not all) of those collision were driver error and not speed related. But even if they are speed related, it still comes down to driver error and/or poor judgment.
The main thing I was trying to put across when I started this thread was that the Government pushing the issue 'Speed Kills' is not correct. My wife will tell you that I take people for what they say and not what they mean or are trying to say. Maybe I am to critical, maybe it's just how the cops changed me, but I take people for what they say or what is said.
This is why I think the the statement, 'Speed Kills' is false.
Kev
Camo ·
donn wrote:
3amigos wrote:look...can i have a show of hands when u last put on your hand brake..and if you did ..why??...
what's the hand brake got to do with it?
I'm with donn, what's the handbrake got to do with this discussion. I think 3amigos obviously drives an automatic. I put my handbrake on every time after I have driven the car and then park it. And to answer the question - Why do I put it on - For safety.
Also 3amigos, if you are a Lic Driver Instructor wouldn't you fail someone for not putting the handbrake on ?????????
Kev
HappyDaze ·
Despite a couple of strange (in my view) comments, this post has brought out some very positive replies - well done Kev.
OK, the higher the speed the more damage will occur in a collision - that's why they now have a low speed limit in motor racing pit lanes now. It has not stopped cars from hitting other cars, or pit crew, but it IS SAFER.
My feeling is that lowering speed will reduce the risk of death or injury in a crash, but it WILL NOT prevent the crash! If there was some way of preventing, or at least reducing, crashes we would be on the right track. Nobody in authority seems to be looking at this area.
Let's not just look at the easy option - blaming speed for everything. There are so many other reasons for road crashes - many have been covered here - that should be considered by the 'Powers That Be', and acted upon ASAP!
Drive Safely, Greg
3amigos ·
I drive a manual....apart from using the handbrake while stopped.. and securing your car....how about at high speed...well thats what they teach them at preformance driving schools..how to use it at speed!!!!..the guys love it....and practise it when they get home....
dont think i'm against them...there good for the right kids....
Defensive Drive.....does anyone know what it means (ex happydaze)
and Kev....i do not pass students..thats qld transports job..
and yes Kev i am a fully licenced drivng instructor of 7 yrs....and work for myself..with NO advertising....just word of mouth...
HappyDaze ·
3amigos wrote:I drive a manual....apart from using the handbrake while stopped.. and securing your car....how about at high speed...well thats what they teach them at preformance driving schools..how to use it at speed!!!!..the guys love it....and practise it when they get home....
dont think i'm against them...there good for the right kids....
Defensive Drive.....does anyone know what it means (ex happydaze)
and Kev....i do not pass students..thats qld transports job..
and yes Kev i am a fully licenced drivng instructor of 7 yrs....and work for myself..with NO advertising....just word of mouth...
I don't care what you drive or what you think, but I do mind if you miss-quote me!
Show me where I said anything about 'Defensive Drive'🤪
3amigos ·
HappyDaze wrote:
3amigos wrote:I drive a manual....apart from using the handbrake while stopped.. and securing your car....how about at high speed...well thats what they teach them at preformance driving schools..how to use it at speed!!!!..the guys love it....and practise it when they get home....
dont think i'm against them...there good for the right kids....
Defensive Drive.....does anyone know what it means (ex happydaze)
and Kev....i do not pass students..thats qld transports job..
and yes Kev i am a fully licenced drivng instructor of 7 yrs....and work for myself..with NO advertising....just word of mouth...
I don't care what you drive or what you think, but I do mind if you miss-quote me!
Show me where I said anything about 'Defensive Drive'🤪
lol...hit the handbrake happy.."ex"meant - all but you.....because i thought you had a fair idea what it meant
and as not caring what i think...mate..im a driving instructor....hardened right up😂
amazeer ·
here ya go, here's another typical granny accident to back my theory.
You should be very carefull picking the eyes out of the accidents / colisions to back up your point, there are many many situations where the damage has been caused by young drivers driven by testosterone, I should know, I was one of them, lost my licence 3 times on P plates b4 I learned my lesson. To be fair to myself, there was no points system back then, you got booked you lost your p licence, yep, you guessed it, I'm aproaching grandad stage. One thing you can bet on, the lady driving was not hooning when it happened. The reason younger drivers pay more for insurance is because statisticaly they are a higher risk, otherwise the insurance companies would be dropping their premiums to get more younger drivers on their books. I wish I had half the $ I paid over and above what my parents paid when I was a youngn. 😬
HappyDaze ·
That is absolutely correct, donn.👍 Nothing wrong with the 'grandad stage', by the way - I've been there for about 15 years now.😁
Cheers, Greg
donn ·
HappyDaze wrote:That is absolutely correct, donn.👍 Nothing wrong with the 'grandad stage', by the way - I've been there for about 15 years now.😁
Cheers, Greg
Before I comment on that I want to know when does the grandad stage actualy start. 🤪