Jezebel's next evolution - Haltech EFI [dyno chart up 5/10]

Picked up a nice box of bits from AusPerformance yesterday for Jezzi, and couldn't resist showing them off.

Air Temp Sensor, Coolant Sensor, Rare Earth Magnets (for the Hall Effect sensor to do crank angle):


Quad Channel ignitor:


4 dual post coils... have to fire 8 spark plugs after all:



a MASSIVE wiring loom:


And the ECU... oooo.... shiney.... 😉




This weekend is Leyburn Historic Sprints... the plan is for this to be the last event with carbs.... then Warwick in 6 weeks time.

😀

Good on you Dave!!

Annoyed I won't be able to catch you at Lleyburn. Hope it goes well.

yummy 👍

Nice one Dave 🙂 if you need a torch holder, Let me know 🙂

Nice stuff Dave. EFI.........

Is stan doing your heads for you?

before Warwick would be a good effort!

colonel mustard wrote:Nice one Dave 🙂 if you need a torch holder, Let me know 🙂

Is this a euphemism or literal meaning Mr Mustard???

Dave I wish you had spoken to some of us locals before you went out and bought this as they are so much hassle it's not funny especially with the rare earth magnets and the coils that have stuff all spark.
We would have told you to go and buy a Motec and use what ever sensors, coils etc and not had the unreliabilty dramas I had with the stuff and I was only firing 4 plugs

haltech works fine on plenty of other cars

Mo-tech is a lot dearer

all that stuff looks pretty heavy, hope it will make bucketloads more power to compensate 😂 will it be at the meeting next week? havent seen jezi for awhile🙁

Looks good dave, looking forward to the 8 plugs?

Well Leyburn is all over for another year... VERY happy with how things went, and my best run of 57.2890 was good enough for I think 4th or 5th in a class of 16.
👍 👍 up for the new surface they've put down too... very weird having that smooth, black motorway type surface in the little narrow streets of a country town !!!

Nath - DB did the heads when the engine was built, just the bottom plugs haven't been connected so far. EFI with twin plugs has always been the plan tho, just a few things have delayed me a bit in getting stuck into it.

Mustard and Matt - better not be a bl@@dy euphemism !!! STIDUB raves about your shed cleaning/organising skills, but even so...

Danny - I talked to a lot of people before deciding, including the drivers/owners of two VERY quick NSW beetle's that both run Haltech. Even spoke to you bout it at Mt Cotton one time, and no I didn't just ignore your suggestion to go Motec. I'm pretty confident can get a good result with the Haltech... the support on their software even seems pretty good, and I know 1st hand how hard that is to get right.

Shaun - yeah, definitely. My plan is to get up and running on just the primary plugs to start with and do at least 1 event before going all 8. The theory of twin plugs I think is sound, but yeah - am definitely looking forward to seeing if can get some good figures on what the extra plugs give.

First step... alternator.

👍

the extra plugs won't do anything besides create turbulence 😂

At least u won't need that butt ugly dizzy thats as big as a magneto 🤪

nah. literal. 🙂

Dave,
Spoke to you at Leyburn after your last run. I thought you might like these pics. WAs nice to see a bug out there tearing it up, wish there were more tho.
Cheers Chippy

Good photos and well done to you Dave!!

I wish there were more beetles out there too 🙂

Cool pics there Chippy - thanks for posting !!!

👍

Cheers Marcus... Jezzi is hoping for some company soon too mate... if we could get you, STIDUB and BiX out there too then the Beetle's might almost equal the Mini's in number !!!

😉

Oh - and almost forgot - have put the in car from my quick run up on youtube... the camera got slightly tilted somehow, but you'll get the idea still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g7QB4CV4Cg

where are the vids from the nationals and Raleigh Dave 🙄

Awesome dave! Great work!

Sides wrote:Cool pics there Chippy - thanks for posting !!!

👍

Cheers Marcus... Jezzi is hoping for some company soon too mate... if we could get you, STIDUB and BiX out there too then the Beetle's might almost equal the Mini's in number !!!

😉

only if you all help push 😂 ....for now 🥷

oh, that welder of yours works alright too, so do the lights flickering in the house when its cranked up according to boss lady hehe

hellbugged wrote:where are the vids from the nationals and Raleigh Dave 🙄

fogged camera !! 😂

that definetly HOOTING now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what size bars are you running dave.....

Yeah, cheers - I'm pretty happy with how she's going now, and the EFI should just improve things even more.

Rear bars are 28mm Sway-a-way jobs... they give pretty minimal squat under power, but still soft enough to not be too upset by bumps and potholes when driving on the street.

👍

SORRY ,I MEANT SWAY BARS

Ahh right - OK.

I'm running Whiteline adjustables... I think front is 22mm (BWF8XZ) and rear 27mm (BWR1XZ).

For street and hillclimb I run them about mid-way on the settings, and then go one or two stops stiffer for circuit stuff such as Lakeside.

sander288 wrote:

hellbugged wrote:where are the vids from the nationals and Raleigh Dave 🙄

fogged camera !! 😂

Yeah yeah - slack I know.

😊

Put some vids up in another thread...
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=85597&page=1#pid798355.

Hopefully gets me off the hook somewhat...

Sides where did you get your thicker torsion bar (rear) and whiteline adjustable sway bars???

Torsion bars I got direct from Sway-a-way in the states, while the Whiteline bars were from GSA Suspension here in Brissie (www.gsad.com.au)

Both at least a few years ago now.

bring shocks to meeting, or we can visit your place after since it never happens 😂

And so it begins.... some "before" shots.

Engine bay: an admittedly filthy, yet pretty darn hypo 1915. The main change here is that the 44 IDF's will be replaced with twin 48 IDF throttle bodies with billet rails, and the generator will be replaced with an alternator. Oh and the whole bay will get a bl00dy good clean too of course... racing is a lot of fun, but man things get filthy. 😉




In the cabin: the Innovate AF meter and logger comes out... I'll be integrating everything to the ECU and using it's logging instead.




And in the rear seat area: the Innovate AUX box (left) comes out, as does the Mallory Hyfire and coil... all to be replaced with a heap of Haltech gear. The thick layer of dust makes me think a bit of cleaning required in here too...

And the Innovate gear that's come out... off to a new home in a drag Beetle. Pretty nifty setup really if you haven't come across 'em before... lets you log AF (Lambda), RPM, Acceleration (g's) and up to 5 other things depending on what sensors you hook up... throttle position and road speed for example.

geez dave, you have a lot of stuff in there.....heavy weight beetle 🙂.......

keep up the great work.....

Heh, yeah - she's not exactly a lightweight... and neither is the driver... which is probably why I'm enjoying the extra power so much !!!

😉

Shiny new alternator kit to go in: just a POS Chinese jobby, but still light years ahead of the 'ol genny.

I hope you love IT dave 🤖 ... theres to many things in your interior for me!! I have enough trouble getting the horn to work properly !! 😂

maybe some door seals could be put in since there will be power to overcome the weight of them😂

...especially without the dust/dirt, clean it & u might loose about 2kg! hehe

sander288 wrote:I hope you love IT dave 🤖 ... theres to many things in your interior for me!! I have enough trouble getting the horn to work properly !! 😂

Heh heh... yup - being an IT geek I've just gotta have a few toys in there, tho yeah - Jezzi's horn doesn't work properly either !!!

🙅

Horn? Thats dead weight!

Give me a Buzz on msn if you want a hand with it some time. I hold the torch and clean things. 🙂 - speaking of which, ask stidub how clean his cave and garage are now... Friday arvo was clean up time.. 🙂

ps, thanks for the shocks 🙂 its over an inch higher in the rear now 😵‍💫

Yeah, cool - no worries Mustard. I warned STIDUB when he took 'em that they'd lift the rear, but surprised it's as much as an inch... man your bars must REALLY have sagged !!!

😂

Ripped most of the uneeded stuff off the engine: Carb's, dizzy and genny are gone for good, and breather box gone temporarily... possibly relocate it pending how the wiring etc. all fits in.




Also found a minor little oil leak... seems one of the fittings at the breather box had worked loose, and instead any captured oil draining back to the engine it would drip into the airflow going to the fan... made the dust stick like you wouldn't believe.

Realized something I hadn't planned out tho... need some sort of block off for the dizzy hole !!! 😊

http://www.boostengineering.net/product_p/vwplug.htm

Should be easy enough to make, I was lazy and just got that one though.

Sides wrote:Realized something I hadn't planned out tho... need some sort of block off for the dizzy hole !!! 😊

use a plug with oring rather than a plate Dave

Yeah... plug with an o-ring was my initial thinking too. That boostengineering one looks all right, but I'd rather not have to keep the dizzy clamp.... we'll see I guess.

Reasonable progress today:Alternator in and dummy fit of throttle bodies. Thought clearance might have been a prob, but there's a lot more room around them than the IDF's, which kinda surprised me.

Also knocked up a bracket for the hall effect sensor that bolts onto the alt stand... need to put some windows in it yet so the engine number is still visible.... and to reduce weight of course !!!

😉




Next step will be the fuel system changes... hopefully get the injectors and fuel rails sorted this week.

Sides,
This looks sensational. Cheers for all the pics... Now that you are converting to FI, would you reconmend it for a newb like me who hasn't had any hypo motor before, or go for the traditional carbs... Budget is non-existant as always but if i am goin to spend dow on carbs etc could i run good FI for similar money??? Is it much more powerful or just more useable??? I am aiming for 1916cc big ports and large cam at this stage. Need to be able to drive on the street though...

gee, your running out of room for stuff in there, maybe its time to change shells & make the ghia a racer, my garage has room in it hehe 😁

No NO NOOO STIDUB... the Ghia WILL NOT become a race car !!!
😬

No visible progress made the last few days... damn work getting in the way... but I've solved a lot of questions. The biggy is the design for getting a good Home signal is now sorted, and amusingly it also addresses "how to plug the dizzy hole" at the same time.

😂

It's stoopid how happy I am with being able to get a reliable Home signal, as it means that both Sequential Injection and Direct Fire Ignition are back on the cards. One of the guys at work is on the case fabbing things up based on my drawings... will post details once he confirms it's build-able. Maybe even pics if he really can do it as quickly as he thinks.

Aussie - sorry to disappoint mate, but nope - I wouldn't recommend EFI for a newby. Especially if you've got a non existent budget... just my ECU alone cost about the same as a good carb setup. That's not to say there aren't more affordable ways to do EFI than what I've done... there definitely are, such as what vw54 has done... but I suspect will still come out to more $$$ than a carb system.

My aim has always been drivability rather than outright power... based on last dyno session it will probably give me more power at the top end also, but won't really know for sure till I get it all in and running...

👍

Oh... one thing i definitely WOULD recommend is to build your car with a return style fuel system... just in case you want to go EFI one day !!!

I'm glad that I did, as my fuel system change for EFI is really just a swirl pot and extra pump and filter up front, then swap the carby regulator at the back for an EFI one.

If I'd settled for an in-tank swirl pot it would've been even simpler again.

👍

any pics of your trigger and home sensors yet ?

How many magnets are u using in that pulley ?

Some more parts arrived... it's gonna be a fun weekend methinks !!!

🙂

Injectors: Bosch 314cc jobs... aka 'Ford Motorsport Injectors'. Depending how you calculated it, they're good for around 50-60hp per cylinder, which will leave a nice amount of headroom on the tuning, as realistically I think 180hp at the flywheel is the most I'll see. Only real drawback on these guys is the little Ford logo's in the molding... I feel so dirty for having purchased a Ford product !!!



Fuel Rail bits: A nice, shiny 400mm length of extrusion, plus the clips etc. to hold the injectors in. Have been advised against welding the rails, so the fabbing up will be a case of cutting to length, milling in the injector pockets and then tapping the ends to take AN-8 port fittings.

johny rotten wrote:any pics of your trigger and home sensors yet ?

How many magnets are u using in that pulley ?

Nope - no pics as yet.

I have two options depending on how the Home setup works out:
- either 2 magnets set into the pulley, 1 North and 1 South so can tell TDC from BDC, which unfortunately puts me back to Wasted Spark and Semi-Sequential Injection
- a 12 tooth chopper wheel and use the Home signal to determine position in the cycle (my preferred)

Holy smoke Dave, I never realised how much $hit you have in your car. 9 guages plus a speedo, terratrip and the like. You really do like your gagets

sooo, my engine & box are in, whats your excuse not to be done yet?? 😘

Hi Dave

Looking good. Have you looked into using a 2.6 Magna EFI dizzy, they have 2 pick up coils, one for TDC and the other for cylinder reference. They are easily adapted to fit to VW.

Steve

he is using a crank angle sensor ❗

Cheers for comments guys !!!

Steve - yeah I'd thought about the Magna dizzy option, but really wanted to try and remove as much variability from the timing as possible... really I want the crank angle to be the primary trigger, tho the Home will likely be coming from off the dizzy drive.

Johny - details for main trigger below. Home trigger hopefully get things back from my mate at work today... hopefully...

Crank angle sensor and mounting: This is to prove the concept, then later will be doing up something a bit more 'bling' methinks.



Chopper wheel: My preferred option until yesterday was mounting this up to the back of the pulley... but now an electronics mate of mine reckons that the sensor I have would be just as happy detecting a bolt going past it. So I may instead just mount up 4 countersunk steel bolts into the pulley, depending on how testing of the sensor goes of course. And hey... nothing like having a fallback position !!! 😉

Otherwise, progress this weekend a bit slow... time spent messing around with the milling machine, Riverfire etc. all obviously time NOT sent on poor little Jezzi...

Throttle linkage sorted: Not much to look at, but because I run a DTM shroud the Berg style linkage didn't just bolt up... fan is rotated slightly clockwise, and the face of the shroud isn't flat, tall manifolds etc. etc. Solution was a bit of ally C channel as a spacer... so a couple of passes at measure, test fit etc. later it seems to work pretty nicely, with only some minor geometry tweaks needed still.




Fuel system mods started: Working this out took a stupid amount of time, but I can actually fit the swirl pot, extra pump and filter all in the spare wheel well around the dry sump system. Woohoo - a race car that can still carry a space saver and toolkit !!! 😉

Sides wrote:Woohoo - a race car that can still carry a space saver and toolkit !!! 😉

Doesn't everyone have one of those types of racecars LOL😂

Dave, do u have any idea how much power/driveability u will have with the injection setup? in relation to the cost?
I don't want to know how much it costs, thats your buisness, just curious as to how much more grunt say Ben & Heath have with injection over carbs? Where do u think it will make more power, or will it be everywhere?

It will be really interesting to see how much more grunt u can get.

I keep dropping the word "injection" into conversation with CT just randomly, even on the rare occasion when we are not talking vw's.

regards
Jak

Hi

The biggest advantage if you gain nothing else is altitude correction, but there will be nicer throttle response and more HP as there wont be a narrowing of the air path through venturis etc.

They way doing your crank trigger is really nicely done.

Steve

Thanks for posting pics for us to see 😁

I enjoy looking at different set ups

David if you mount the sensor that way it will break off quite quickly and then you will also have problems with it getting a decent signal as it gets a signal from the majority of the tip diameter and the chopper disc needs to be around 5x5mm thick
If you need to see come and look at mine
As I said been there done that with a Haltec and I'm still waiting for the t-shirt amd I'm guessing my chances of the t-shirt turning up are as good as getting the thing to behave it's self

Jak - based on previous dyno sessions and the change that switching from 36 to 38mm vents gave... and that the power curve still looks restricted in the top end and hits max power too early... well I'd say that a 10hp gain from where I am now at the top end is probably achievable. It's more the mid range where I hope to see the biggest improvement, specifically giving better control over the over rich section I'm getting and freeing up some grunt there. Of course that's all just guessing until it's all together and tuned.... so I might leave the bang for buck assessment till then too !!!

😂

Don't think I'll see the sort of power that Ben/Grant are getting from their combo... but dunno, possibly close to Heath all going well.

Danny - yup, the sensor mounting is just temporary to prove the concept and get gaps etc. right. Once that's sorted will be fabbing up a more solid setup where the sensor mounts through the bracket from behind... so no possibility for the sensor to move independently of the bracket. Don't have the specs on the chopper wheel handy, but it's 145mm diameter and from memory something like 6.5mm thick with 6mm tooth forms.... actually, easiest thing - it's a Motec 12 tooth 145mm wheel... you probably have the specs around on them !!! Where the sensor is mounted gives the full tooth passing over it... should work I think, but if it doesn't no biggy - I'll just change it.

Love to see more details on your setup - any chance of posting some pics ??? Also saw you listed on the Speed on Tweed entry list... 1999cc and yellow... is that the new car, or Dunnie's car ???

😉

Good suggestion tho - just might have to drop round and check out your setup again...

👍

reubs, I wouldn't get bogged down with dyno results.....the best is to weigh the car, take it to the drags and see what MPH you get........then workout the HP that way 😉

If Dave gets 10hp gain...........well then I know I will be putting EFI on mine for over 150hp !

Yeah, like I said - really I'm just guessing.

The main thing I have to go on is that 36 to 38mm vents gave a 7hp gain... and switching to 40mm vents or IDA's was thought would give similar again. So I guess you could term the question as does EFI with 48mm TB's have more potential on this combo than 44 IDF's ???

DB did some work on the manifolds, but not massive amounts I don't think - they were already welded jobs that he commented had been done properly. I'm dry-sumped too... I've read in places that that's good for as much as 6hp, but I don't believe it's that much... and I didn't go dry-sump for peak hp reasons anyway.

But yeah - it's gonna be interesting, and I'll post the info up either way.

👍

its a great result Sides.....and you will certainly have a great street/track/race car.

Action Day this weekend, so unfortunately only got to spend Saturday working on Jezzi.

Still some reasonable progress was made... quite chuffed with the fuel rails that I fabbed up on the milling machine... seems I've graduated from turning good bits of metal into chips, to now turning it into parts !!!

Mill to the right length: Take a 400mm length of extrusion and cut to the right length... milling machine made for a nice accurate cut.



Flip and mill in the injector bosses... with several rounds of very careful measuring in between. A 10mm through hole, a 14mm hole to a depth of 6mm, then a nice chamfer on the edge to make sure the o-ring doesn't get damaged during install.



... repeat for the second injector, then add in the blind tapped holes for the retaining clips. Voila - an almost complete fuel rail... just needs to be tapped for the end fittings.



Play it again Sam: Two fuel rails needed obviously... seems I got the process right as they both fit up to the injectors perfectly.



Then fit the TB's back on the engine...



... and make sure there's clearance to everything (still a bit more needed on this one just to be safe methinks)



And that's the major work on the engine side of the fuel system... just needs the end fittings put in, the EFI regulator swapped in and fuel lines connected.

Now the ECU and wiring install can begin !!!

😀😀😀

Nice work Dave.

Good to see you today... shame about that crap music that was playing 😉

ahh so your the one that looked after the laptop & stuff when i got the show & tell lesson?

good to see a throttle linkage that will WORK on there Dave 👍

Heh heh... was wondering if you'd notice Daimo...

😂

Still got a bit of tweaking to do on it yet, but already the operation seems much more consistent than all the hex bar setups I've dealt with.

Also a pic from bosslady's post on Action Day... Jezzi's first car show, proudly showing off some of her new bits !!!

yeah looks like you need the proper linkage arms tho Dave........guess what 😀........got them in a box here for you!

they are the bent ones the same as i run.....i'd be putting the 3rd bolt in the fan housing too buddy

Dave no it's not Marks car as that is stashed in someones shed and anyway it's too slow to compete in as I'd fall asleep at those speeds
Yes I was entered for Speed on Tweed but aggravated a hernia last sunday so had to yank the entry as I'm going in to hospital this morning to go under the knife so I should be at the Tighe Cams round as the HRCC event has been cancelled
Heres the link for the new car with all the photo's Gary's been putting up
http://www.rsmotorsport.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2877&start=320

Danny

Hi Dave, an updates ? are you going to Warwick ?

Heh - been a case of head down ass up trying to get it all done !!!

Made some good progress, tho starting to get pretty tight... have given myself a deadline that if it isn't running by end of this weekend, it's back to carbs so I don't miss out on Warwick.

On the mechanical side of things, the pulley gets some teeth !!! it's alloy, so needed some steel teeth for the sensor to detect going past... step 1 accurately mill in four blind holes




12 teeth now: talking with Danny some over the weekend he convinced me to go with 12 teeth rather than 4... so milled in the extra holes, inserted the steel studs and cold-welded them in



Closeup of teeth: pretty happy with the result, and much easier to get clearance than with the chopper wheel (which is still my fallback position)

Also now have the fuel system finalized: Existing pump (under the tank) becomes the lift pump up to the swirl pot, then the pressure pump below that with lines then routed through the EFI filter (above the tank) and back down to the engine via the existing lines. Return line then goes back into the swirl pot, with the overflow from the swirl pot and an air bleed from the pressure pump going back into the top of the tank.




Throttle Bodies and Fuel Rails : final fit up, gasket'd and torqued down and all plumbed up. Also have the Intake Air Temp sensor (above LHS throttle body), Oil Temp sensor (on the brass Tee) and the coils (above the fan shroud) all mounted. Oh... and the mounting of the throttle linkage finalized also... with the 3rd bolt in it's nice and solid.

Also started in on the electricals: the HyFire system comes out...




... the ECU goes in...



... and now just to deal with all the wiring !!!


Obviously the coil, firewall feed through etc. will all come out, but that'll be an "after it's all running" job.

😀

Thats an amazing amount of plumbing u have there Dave! I read the other day in an old Hot Vw's magazine that CB performance did testing with their dry sump product/system & they got 9hp extra with an engine being dry sumped.
regards
jak

Jak Rizzo wrote:I read the other day in an old Hot Vw's magazine that CB performance did testing with their dry sump product/system & they got 9hp extra with an engine being dry sumped.

That's an impressive HP gain.......I wonder what % gain that was over the total HP the motor produced. Did the article say ?

I'm pretty sure it was a stock 1600 with twin 40mm IDF webbers.
Thats 9hp at the flywheel though. The engine was on a bench dyno.
Plus it's American hp, so it's probably only 3.5 Australianhp 😀
Jak

Haha.....still probably a 5% power gain though.👍

Heh heh - yeah Jak - seems I've developed a thing for plumbing hey !!!

😂

CB have that article up on their website still... http://www.cbperformance.com/Apr1999.asp

But yeah... I definitely think they're talking American horsepower...

😉

I'd be surprised if there is any measurable gain at all.
They only have 30mm scavenge gears, so it would struggle to keep the sump "dry",
and certainly not create any vacuum that can actually unleash power.

That being said...they are a very nice unit and simple to install.
And an excellent way to keep oil pressure to the bearings in all applications.

Im with Dave on that one. Not enough to pull a vacuum.

I cant help but think the power gain in the dyno sheets shown are due to the smaller pressure stages, ala less pumping losses pumping oil at higher rpm.

It looks great Dave.

I admire your development and effort.

Man, the plumbing and wires look complicated to me.

I look forward to seeing a comparison between the injection dyno versus the carb dyno.

Good thread.

Regardless of whether the HP figures are "real HP" they still gained a 7% increase over the base run........interesting.........although it could have been the result of the smaller pulley they used 😂

Dave, do you just have the CB Dry Sump pump for the oil, or is there a second pump up at the tank end as well ?

Yeah, cheers CT... I'm looking forward to seeing the difference too !!!

😀

Craig - nope, no pump at the tank end - just the CB 4 gear pump in the standard place. My tank slightly higher than the engine with a 3/4" supply line back to the pump. Works great as far as I'm concerned... if you pull a fitting without having shut off the oil tap, the flow from gravity effect on 5 liters of oil up front is pretty impressive.

👍

Bit of a mini-update... have finished my sync-reference setup for getting a reliable signal for TDC when combined with the 12 teeth on the crank pulley.

I'm VERY happy with how it's turned out, so figured might as well show it off !!!

Modify a 009 dizzy: for various reasons I didn't want to get the sync reference from the cam or oil pump... so I came up with a scheme to modify an old 009 dizzy to do the job. Starting point - standard 009 dizzy internals.



Machine most of the top part of the shaft away and put on an alloy disc, sort of similar to what the compufire setup uses, but mounted lower in the dizzy body.



And mount in a steel bolt : in this case it's an M8, tapped and then cold welded so it can't come out, then milled for clearance.



Make up a lid for the dizzy body: a nicely machined piece of ally that's a snug fit into the dizzy body (thanks heaps DB !!!), set up to mount a Honeywell GT101 sensor through it, and secured in using the dizzy spring clip mounting screws.



Dizzy body and shaft re-assembled and mounted...



Adjustment is pretty simple - just like setting the timing statically, but sighting through the sensor mounting hole.



Finished and installed, with just wiring into the ECU needed.



Pretty tidy lookin I think... even if I do say so myself !!!

😀 😀 😀

hellbugged wrote:i'd be putting the 3rd bolt in the fan housing too buddy

Same, mine has a habit of working loose with only two. I have an nutsert kit if you need...

Looks great Dave. Looking forward to seeing it at Warwick.

Almost there... forum being down for most of Sunday helped me make some good progress.

Wiring all done: Not a huge amount to see... lots of inputs and outputs left spare at the moment (draped over the helmet net), so just a tidy up and wrap needed in the parcel shelf. I'm a computer dude... so when the ignitor instructions say "use an adequate heat sink and thermal paste"... well I went just a bit over board.... 150x75x46 10 fin heat sink and a tube of Arctic Silver should do the trick !!!
😀



Engine fully wired and plumbed: Injection and Ignition relays not fitted yet, but other than that and air cleaners and V-belt she's ready to go. I'll be running 45psi fuel pressure, and have tested the fuel system up to 57psi with no leaks so all good on that one. The fuel pumps are controlled by the ECU, but I also put in a "Prime" override switch on the dash to force the lift pump to run to top up the swirl pot.


Tonight will be doing all the setup and diagnostic checks on the sensors and ECU, then the REAL fun can start...

😀 😀 😀

Awesome Dave 😵

feel free to do a test run to my place and back 👍

Well, it's VERY close to running now... the Wideband is all wired in, the ECU powers up and passes it's diagnostics.

ECU Setup : sensors all good and returning correct values... temp values match a thermometer, tho the TPS needs to be calibrated.




ECU Diagnostics : both triggers working sensibly... after a brief spin on the starter, the numbers all add up (12 teeth per Home, the 2 misses are because the engine was sitting two teeth ahead of Home to begin with)



Other than that, I have my helper/spotter coming around this evening... so just a case of checking base timing and firing order, then should be ready to start her up.

😀

Geting pretty exciting Dave!

Craig Torrens wrote:Regardless of whether the HP figures are "real HP" they still gained a 7% increase over the base run........interesting.........although it could have been the result of the smaller pulley they used 😂

I agree that the smaller pulley would likely have a more measurable gain.
Although in Dave's case, the pulley diameter is only one size down from stock....''power pulley size" from memory.

I love percentages but in this case it does not mean a lot.
More, it is just a way to say stuff that sounds better...in some cases.
400% of zero=zero.😂

Despite what they "said" and what actually IS the case are likely two different things,😂
so i would not get excited about HP or percentages.

I dont know why some retailers cant just sell something on its merits.😬
It is a good unit,
and fits very well without having to resort to a lot of plumbing or very small pulley,
but wont solve poverty or find a cure for aids.

dangerous wrote:Geting pretty exciting Dave!

Craig Torrens wrote:Regardless of whether the HP figures are "real HP" they still gained a 7% increase over the base run........interesting.........although it could have been the result of the smaller pulley they used 😂

I agree that the smaller pulley would likely have a more measurable gain.
Although in Dave's case, the pulley diameter is only one size down from stock....''power pulley size" from memory.

I love percentages but in this case it does not mean a lot.
More, it is just a way to say stuff that sounds better...in some cases.
400% of zero=zero.😂

Despite what they "said" and what actually IS the case are likely two different things,😂
so i would not get excited about HP or percentages.

I dont know why some retailers cant just sell something on its merits.😬
It is a good unit,
and fits very well without having to resort to a lot of plumbing or very small pulley,
but wont solve poverty or find a cure for aids.

Re Percentages:

They achieved a (claimed) increase of 9hp from the base dyno run by just fitting (claimed) the dry sump kit....which represents an increase of 7%.....so in this case that 'means a lot'. Percentage is always the best way to measure/ equalise an improvement

My point re the pulley, is that the dry sump kit may not have been the only item changed for the comparison test. (unless the smaller pulley was used for the first run as well, although that has been conveniently left out of the photo's!).......I'm not referencing Daves car, just CB's motor.

The 7% gain is not based on "Zero", so I'm not sure of your point ?

So unless anybody else has done back to back tests re this setup, I guess the CB result is the only reference point at this stage to go by.

Am I getting excited and going to buy one ?......no and no, as I would have done it 15 years ago !

Last few days has been more head down and @rse up getting it all sorted.... late nights, early mornings, chaos at work etc meant no real time for updates - sorry.

So the first bit of news is that unfortunately my plan of dyno'ing with single plugs and then again with the duals is out the window... found that the internal circuitry of the coils means they won't fully discharge through one post, making triggering a bit erratic, so I've had to go all 8 straight off (as I don't have 4 single post coils)

And the second bit of news is that as of 8:35 AM this morning I have a fuel injected Beetle !!!

🙂 🙂 🙂

I have to say.... even with zero optimisation on the tune it's the sweetest idling Volksy motor I've ever heard, and seems to rev very cleanly. Definitely capable of driving itself onto and off the trailer for the dyno session tomorrow.

Just more eveidence I guess that Warwick is all about the last minute completion of projects !!!

🥷

Good work Dave, I won't be able to see your new motor at Warwick, which is a shame but I over did it on the HSRCA weekend with trying to get my car ready 👍

:O dave have you been having sickies to work on your beetle, thats disgraceful! 😂

what time are you rolling past my way? might head up with you on saturday morning for a wee bit

I shall not be there saturday, so i guess I will miss seeing it. 🙁

How did the Dyno session go ?

Will you be running the EFI or the 'old skool' carbies for Warwick ??!

Hell yeah I'll be running Warwick with the EFI !!!

👍 👍 👍

Dyno session went well - power now up to 142.6, and most importantly with a much smoother curve... should be brilliant for drivability basically. Bl00dy long day tho... after getting home and packing stuff was so exhausted I basically fell straight into bed.... hence no update.

😊

Anyway - about to head out there now... been raining in Bris most of the night, so it's gonna be interesting methinks. Will do a proper update, graphs etc. when I'm back...

Seriously impressive figures. Well done. I'd say all the hard work and hard-earned has paid of then.

CYA CT

sounded great on the live stream sides...looked fast and loud!

yep it sounded sweeeeeet 👍

:cool dave,maybe you will start braking some track records now....good work......cant w8 to see some video.....

so... how did mt cotton in the wet go? was the boat lap time broken from last time the hairpin flooded?

ah-hem

Dave, it's great to see you had some improvements over the old webbers with the new EFI setup. Your gains just make me more excited about the EFI conversion on my new circuit bug.

Yeah, cheers for comments guys. It's been a huge amount of work and late nights/early mornings, and even tho have a few little niggles to sort out I'm VERY happy with the result.

Warwick was a bit of a mixed bag... had a ton of fun of course, but also a few minor issues taking the shine off. At the root of it all was that my shiny new alternator seems to have sh@t itself, and lack of Volts is a BIG problem with EFI. Thanks HEAPS to Frosty for donating his spare battery after I completely flattened mine... saved my @rse there bigtime dude.

👍 👍 👍

Other than that Jezzi ran sweet, but had a lot of trouble launching her due to issues with the throttle linkage... can't wait for those new arms to arrive Daimo 😉 Once going tho man does she have some poke !!! My driest and best run was my first... huge amounts of spin off the line... a 2.4 something 60 ft giving a 10.420 @ 67mph. Similar ET to last year with the old engine, but that was on a 2.1 60 ft and only 61 mph. Every other run I was trying to get the launch right, but never managed it.

Sunday was hillclimb at Mt Cotton, with even more rain than out at Warwick. Managed to bodge the throttle linkage a bit better, which made launching bearable. Even in the wet the difference in drivability is massive... back to my preferred of using 2nd gear on the hairpin (rather than 1st) and she just pulls out of the hole no worries at all now. I hate driving in the wet and am generally a bit of a chicken... my previous best wet time was a low 59, but yesterday I managed a 56.17 to take max points in my class.

So yeah... start to finish conversion from carbs to EFI in 5 weeks and no missed events... but man I need some sleep now !!!

Unfortunately forgot to bring the dyno charts with me to work today, but will try to post them up from home tonite...

STIDUB wrote:so... how did mt cotton in the wet go? was the boat lap time broken from last time the hairpin flooded?

They've done a lot of drainage works so it doesn't flood now, but yeah - still very bl00dy wet yesterday.

The "boat run" was a 64 from memory, so yup - WAAAY quicker than that !!!

🙂

what brand of throttle bodies did you use? they look sweet, nice work btw not many people are doing efi conversions

cool Dave.....not good but seeing as the alt stuffed, the welded fan can go in while you're at it

wondered how you managed to a couple of starts i saw

Sides wrote:My driest and best run was my first... huge amounts of spin off the line... a 2.4 something 60 ft giving a 10.420 @ 67mph. Similar ET to last year with the old engine, but that was on a 2.1 60 ft and only 61 mph.

10.42@ 67mph doesnt get you anywhere near 142hp.......sorry.

Craig Torrens wrote:

Sides wrote:My driest and best run was my first... huge amounts of spin off the line... a 2.4 something 60 ft giving a 10.420 @ 67mph. Similar ET to last year with the old engine, but that was on a 2.1 60 ft and only 61 mph.

10.42@ 67mph doesnt get you anywhere near 142hp.......sorry.

Nothin to be sorry about at all Craig.

If I'd been able launch it... and the track was dry... and the weight of the car was known... and I'd been strapping it out past 6000 even... well then there might be some chance of figuring it all out.

Sounds like a trip to willowbank test and tune or a street meet to prove Craig/others wrong dude? Oh, and to whip some commodore/falcon butt as well...

Congrats on getting the EFI up and running is what seemed to be a pretty short period. I'm sure that being able to tune the ignition is a big advantage over a fuel only like my 58.

Craig Torrens wrote:

Sides wrote:My driest and best run was my first... huge amounts of spin off the line... a 2.4 something 60 ft giving a 10.420 @ 67mph. Similar ET to last year with the old engine, but that was on a 2.1 60 ft and only 61 mph.

10.42@ 67mph doesnt get you anywhere near 142hp.......sorry.

This does the maqths, only need to calculate the stuff,

http://www.eldemoniorojo.com/calculator.htm

Yeah, after Craig's post I've had a look at a few different calculators, and big surprise the numbers for my run just don't add up.... a 2.4 60ft is WAY too slow for a car that can run a 10.420, and 67 MPH is WAY too high for a 10.420 ET. Kinda to be expected I think when I screwed the launch so badly !!!

😂

Regardless, here's the dyno chart from the other day.



Green line of 132.0 was with 44 IDF carbs and 38 vents
Red line of 142.6 is the Haltech wth 48mm throttle bodies

Conditions on the two days VERY close... both air temp and pressure about the same... including an afternoon storm on both days !!!

Still more tweaking to be done on the tune of course... I want to do as much of it as I can myself, but wanted a nice safe starting point to experiment from.... and like I said, now the REAL fun can start !!!

😀 😀 😀

DieSchnelleKafer wrote:what brand of throttle bodies did you use? they look sweet, nice work btw not many people are doing efi conversions

Yeah, cheers !!!

They're Injection Perfection 48mm IDF throttle bodies... bought them used off the forum, and pretty happy with 'em really.

👍

MPH is the best guide for HP, as ET can be dramatically influenced by a bad launch etc (hence the 10.42).........whereas the MPH tends to be relatively the same regardless of bad launches........Depending on the weight of the car, 142hp should be around 80mph mark for the 1/8th.

Maybe take it to Willowbank this Sat for the TNT, weigh the car and then see what the result is for the 1/4 mile.

put the webbers back on, Rose got a 10.50 on Saturday and a 10.007 out of the old 1916 on Sunday with 65Hp🤪😂🤪
on Sunday we took the spare wheel and the tools out, put the stinger on and took off the air cleaners. we must of got a gain of 8hp🤪😂🤪

you know I am just joking , Its good to see your vw racing around at most vw events.

Craig Torrens wrote:MPH is the best guide for HP, as ET can be dramatically influenced by a bad launch etc (hence the 10.42).........whereas the MPH tends to be relatively the same regardless of bad launches........Depending on the weight of the car, 142hp should be around 80mph mark for the 1/8th.

Yeah, my old 2332 had 141.6 rwhp and ran 80-84mph every pass.

Nice job btw Dave, getting it all happening and running both events 👍

she be apples Dave........few issues sorted then "times" will come.

congrats!

isn't the old saying, its not how much you got but how you use what you got😵

can someone explain how the AFR works,,,, that flat spot "44 idf green line" between 80kmh-113kmh, does that mean its running lean?? it dips up and down a lot even with the ingection...i thought u can tune that out with FI so it has a good AFR reading....daah me stupid.....and what is a good AFR reading...

it seems the 44 idf still made more hp in certain area's.....

anyways hope u got good nappies with your new powerful donk......

My intepretation, is the dip is where the engine itself has some small area that lacks something, whether it's manifold length, exhaust design, port work or about a million other posibilities. The efi has smothed the power delivery in that area, so I'd reckon Dave would be stoked.

Yeah - pretty much what Matt's said - tho I don't know that stoked is a strong enough term for it !!!

😂

The basic aim is to get the smoothest AF curve that gives the best & smoothest power curve, obviously while staying within safe limits. Somewhere around 12 - 12.5:1 under WOT I think is the target, with it varying both up and down from that depending on load, throttle etc. At cruise along a flat level road you want to be closer to 14.7:1 for example.

With the IDF's there were big issues where the engine hadn't yet come onto the cam... no matter what combination of jets and vents we tried, to get a good AFR at the top end would result in a horrible richness in that mid range. The flat line is where it's gone so rich the sensor can't read it... basically below 10:1. The compromise then was to stick with the combination that gave the best power curve, and just drive around the mid-range hole.

With the EFI you get a lot more precise control over things, but the ECU needs all the lookup tables populated wiith the right values for that specific engine combo, and that can take a LOT of time to get right.

I've really only just started on the process, but spend enough time at it and you could have your AFR curve dead flat right across the rev range at any combination of throttle, temperature etc. V8 Supercar and Formula 1 teams spend hundreds if not thousands of hours on the dyno getting their maps spot on... car manufacturers probably spend even more. That's what "chipping" a modern car is about... you're changing the map, so altering the compromise that the manufacturer settled on.

The curve I have up there is from the power run that was done when we had the base fuel table in. There was more fine tuning done after that, including things like adding in more fuel when you jump on the throttle to get rid of the lean spike, taking a bit of fuel out where it was over rich etc.... just I didn't bother doing another power run after all that since we didn't touch the top end.

Finally, the Haltech can log all of this out for me to look at later and then make as many adjustments as I like, so it can become a continual tweaking process without having to go back to the dyno all the time... and being an IT Geek, I love that analyze, tweak, re-analyze sort of process.

😀 😀 😀

Wow - sometimes I write a lot of words, don't I !!!

😊

Sides wrote:Wow - sometimes I write a lot of words, don't I !!!

😊

no , we hardly ever hear from u, where have u been? 😂

Jak

PS Dave, re the hp comments, my theory is, if u keep using the same dyno all the time, then the changes /increases in hp are relevant. There are people out there that drive around to find a dyno that will give them the figure that they want. Don't get bogged down (get it, bogged down) with your drag times, your car is built for other purposes. Put your engine in one of those drag/street? cars, the drag times would be completely different.

Sides wrote:Yeah - pretty much what Matt's said - tho I don't know that stoked is a strong enough term for it !!!

😂

The basic aim is to get the smoothest AF curve that gives the best & smoothest power curve, obviously while staying within safe limits. Somewhere around 12 - 12.5:1 under WOT I think is the target, with it varying both up and down from that depending on load, throttle etc. At cruise along a flat level road you want to be closer to 14.7:1 for example.


With the IDF's there were big issues where the engine hadn't yet come onto the cam... no matter what combination of jets and vents we tried, to get a good AFR at the top end would result in a horrible richness in that mid range. The flat line is where it's gone so rich the sensor can't read it... basically below 10:1. The compromise then was to stick with the combination that gave the best power curve, and just drive around the mid-range hole.

With the EFI you get a lot more precise control over things, but the ECU needs all the lookup tables populated wiith the right values for that specific engine combo, and that can take a LOT of time to get right.

I've really only just started on the process, but spend enough time at it and you could have your AFR curve dead flat right across the rev range at any combination of throttle, temperature etc. V8 Supercar and Formula 1 teams spend hundreds if not thousands of hours on the dyno getting their maps spot on... car manufacturers probably spend even more. That's what "chipping" a modern car is about... you're changing the map, so altering the compromise that the manufacturer settled on.

The curve I have up there is from the power run that was done when we had the base fuel table in. There was more fine tuning done after that, including things like adding in more fuel when you jump on the throttle to get rid of the lean spike, taking a bit of fuel out where it was over rich etc.... just I didn't bother doing another power run after all that since we didn't touch the top end.

Finally, the Haltech can log all of this out for me to look at later and then make as many adjustments as I like, so it can become a continual tweaking process without having to go back to the dyno all the time... and being an IT Geek, I love that analyze, tweak, re-analyze sort of process.

😀 😀 😀

interesting ,i know fakall about this stuff dave its all way over my head....one day!!! if u dont mind me asking,how much for all the efi setup....

Jak Rizzo wrote:

Sides wrote:Wow - sometimes I write a lot of words, don't I !!!

😊

PS Dave, re the hp comments, my theory is, if u keep using the same dyno all the time, then the changes /increases in hp are relevant. There are people out there that drive around to find a dyno that will give them the figure that they want. different.

Yep completely agree. The use of the Dyno is to measure changes made, and to confirm whether you are going forward or backwards with your development.......clearly the injection and Twin Plugs has moved the engine forward from its previous setup.

BUT, if you want to claim how much HP a motor produces then you need to back it up with a drag run.
Weigh the car, run it down the strip and see what MPH you get.........its simple physics, regardless of what the "purpose" of the car is for and what your ET is.

The EFI will certainly give you a great advantage in tuning and getting the best out of your combination 😎

As Chris has asked, what is the cost ?
I'm assuming around $4500- $5000 all up?

Yup - agree with most of that Craig... I'm doing this whole thing to have more fun, not claim any particular hp number or whatever.

Drag racing isn't my thing, but yeah - I'll definitely take Jezzi out to Willowbank at some point like Reub's suggested. Not out of a need to prove anything - just as part of my learning/experimenting and also doing stuff with the rest of the Volksy dude's around Brissie.

$$$ wise you're about right. Depends a bit on what you do and don't count as part of the job... I've done things like converting to alternator, setting up a new breather system etc. in the process which others may not. Also depends on how much you do yourself compared to letting the dyno guy do it for you.

Obviously simplifying the setup would get the $$$ down lower too:

• less fancy/different ECU, or even a DIY type such as a MegaSquirt
• running wasted spark rather than direct fire (less coils, a cheaper ignitor, no need for sync-ref/home sensor setup)
• less optimally sized injectors (oddly going for say 400cc injectors over the 315's would save a couple hundred bucks)
• single throttle body instead of duals
• simpler fuel system (e.g. an internal swirl pot style would only need a single pump and filter)
• simpler plumbing rather than AN stuff
• plus a whole heap of other things I haven't thought of...

Heh heh - no-one likes a smart @rse Jak !!!

😂

But yeah - ta for comments dude. It's been ton of fun getting it to this point, and I'm stoked with the result so far... and obviously some more fun for me to have with in there still...

👍

Kudos Dave for getting the injection up and running in such a short time.

From what I can see the twin plugs must be doing wonders for your engine in the lower to mid rev range as your fuel curve at those revs still needs a lot of work.

Should be a sweet running combo once the fuel curve is optimized.

Gracey wrote:From what I can see the twin plugs must be doing wonders for your engine in the lower to mid rev range as your fuel curve at those revs still needs a lot of work.

❓ how you figure that

hellbugged wrote:

Gracey wrote:From what I can see the twin plugs must be doing wonders for your engine in the lower to mid rev range as your fuel curve at those revs still needs a lot of work.

❓ how you figure that

Personal experience, I have a 1916 with a Pobjoy cam that starts at about 4200rpm (similar to Dave's) it's also twin plugged with wedge port heads and 44 idf's.
Just like Dave's car my car goes super rich before it comes on cam (the motor doesn't care if it's injected or carbs) rich is rich.
Without twin plugs the motor doesn't have much bottom end due to cam overlap etc causing excessive richness, by adding twin plugs suddenly the same motor with the same jetting has fantastic low end power.
Hence the reason I think the twin plugs are doing wonders for his motor in it's current state of tune.

Andrew

cool thanx.....i see a lot more work in that fuel curve via programming to be done........the motor seems to react alot to slight deviations in the air/fuel ratio.

love the way the funky HP curve corresponds directly with air/fuel devos in the graph tho.

be great to see it optimised and the relavant "flattening" of the power curve as a result in the future.really looking at it i think the injection will make more power right through

as Dave has noted, it will be a long long haul and the logging of the haltech will come into it's own once he gets some good miles under his belt and some experience manipulating ALL it's options.

ceratinly off to a good start

hellbugged wrote:cool thanx.....i see a lot more work in that fuel curve via programming to be done........the motor seems to react alot to slight deviations in the air/fuel ratio.

be great to see it optimised and the relavant "flattening" of the power curve as a result in the future.

as Dave has noted, it will be a long long haul and the logging of the haltech will come into it's own once he gets some good miles under his belt and some experience manipulating all it's options.

ceratinly off to a good start

I agree, once he gets the fuel curve optimised it should result in a very flat usable power curve.

I have to admit that I didn't realise how much work/time is involved in programming an injection system!

Don't some of the computers have a self tune function?
Or is this just for the initial tune?

Hey Dave

It is all looking very good. Well done.

By the way, remind me not to publish my dyno chart when I build my engine .... geez 🙄

Let me know when you are fronting up to Mt Cotton again. 🙂

Yeah, agreed - it's a good start, but definitely more to do. I've already started marrying up the base fuel map to the power curve and can see a few tweaks to make.

👍

Gracey - yep, the ECU has got quite a few functions to make it faster to tune:
[*]first and simplest you can put it in closed loop where it compares the actual AF to a target AF table you put in, and then adjusts injector timing on the fly to suit. This is basically what most modern street cars do.
[*]second there's a "Quick Tune" function, where you select a cell or group of cells in the base map, and have it on-demand set things based on an averaging function that gets saved into the map
[*]third there's the "linearise" function, where you enter a value for say 5000 rpm 50% throttle and another for 2000 rpm 50% throttle, and then it averages to put values in the cells in between
[*]finally the anal techie rev-head method of putting in the values for each cell yourself, then making small adjustments up and down to get it spot on.

The map I have running now is a combination of the last 2 methods.

Marcus - nah, it's all good dude. I love the experimentation/learning aspect of it all !!!

👍

Next event for me is Stanthorpe Sprints 23-24 Oct, then Mt Cotton the following weekend 30-31 Oct...

Waiting that long to hit the track "may" cause cancer!
Bring it to the IWMAC day/night autocross next Saturday night! It should have enough power to be "interesting" on the dirt track!

Thanks for the injection info Dave.

Okay, so besides taking heaps longer to tune and taking a heap more work, what's the benefit to tuning the way your doing it?

Does it give you a more controlled or accurate map than say the quick tune method?

Yeah, no wories Gracey.

Basically the level of control would be the main thing.

I've heard good and bad about the Quick Tune mode on the Haltech... unfortunately couldn't try it out on the dyno the other day, as had to pull my AF sensor to put the dyno one in (their snorkel setup didn't like the bend on the end of my muffler).

From what I understand the Quick Tune's main use is on dyno's... it does the averaging thing in real time rather than from a saved log... whereas the method I'm using you can take a log, analyze and think about it and then apply the change.

Hey Dave, to be competitive at a Mt Cotton should the hp figure started with a 2

Danny

danny m wrote:Hey Dave, to be competitive at a Mt Cotton should the hp figure started with a 2

Danny

hehehe.......and your surname needs to start with a M !

How heavy is that car of yours Danny??? 😏

The new car is 959kg's which is too much but I've got some things in the works to get some weight out of it then then theres me of course, but then again the engine and gearbox make up for the drawbacks




Danny

Get on a treadmill Danny........I reckon you could save 30kg there easy !!!! 😂😉

Cheers for the info Danny.

So around the 160rwhp and a bit under 800kg should be some good numbers 😵

vassy66T1 wrote:Cheers for the info Danny.

So around the 160rwhp and a bit under 800kg should be some good numbers 😵

That would be reasonable but I'd reckon 959k's and close on 100 more hp would be more fun and yes Craig 30 would be the go but theres still more squirt to be had and if they let me use all 6 gears (although the box wiegh a couple more kg's with 6th back inside) like the rumour I keep hearing of I can stay 'healthy' for a little longer!


Danny

Freak Danny ... how much rear wheel power?

On a Dyno dynamics it spat out 254 @8800

Dave,

Good to see you and Jezzi are still going strong. would love to catch you at Warwick next year (2011) I have booked leave so hope to see you there. Dad was telling me you had new EFI and well, here it is. He also tells me you need a hydraulic lifter on your trailer, or some lifted suspension for Jez. :-) Say hi to the other guys who were at Warwick 2007 for me.

Luke D

oooh daaavve....
you know that thing of yours in my garage??

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1076832
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1103802

i think it needs those ^^^
it will still look period correct on the outside 😀
tax time is coming, what better way to blow some $$ :P

Can any one tell me how they adjust the camber on the mendeola rear set-up?

Toe is obvious, but cant pick the camber adjuster?

Any updates Dave ?
Is the injection all sorted now ?
Have you run any events lately ?

C'mon you've been quiet !!!

Yeah - have been a bit slack on things hey... just gotten so damn busy this year, and with work stuff O/S things have just been nuts !!!

😊

Anyway, have run 2 hillclimbs this year but been having a few issues the injection.

Main symptom has been that she breaks down and misfires up in the rev range under full load. Hasn't looked fuel related as the AF looks fine right up until the misfires.

With a bit of digging around and a few different people involved it looks to be that the triggering gets erratic at higher RPM, and last event made a few changes on the sensor alignment which moved where in the RPM range the problem started, so looks like on the right track.

With some help from DB have come up with a different setup for the sensing on the end pulley to get it more stable/reliable.

Now that back home hope to get it in and sorted this week.... will post an update and pics when I have.

you got VERY high quality ignition leads Dave.....these can cause big issues with aircooled EFI

Don't think it's the leads Daimo... they're decent quality Bosch ones that I'm running.

If the different triggering setup doesn't solve it tho, leads might be the next suspect...

hellbugged wrote:you got VERY high quality ignition leads Dave.....these can cause big issues with aircooled EFI

I,ve got a set of 8mm MSD leads you can try if need be Dave.

Cheers Col

ian.mezz wrote:http://www.boostengineering.net/

Your kidding

I guess it is pretty quiet in Maitland🤪

Brian wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:http://www.boostengineering.net/

Your kidding

I guess it is pretty quiet in Maitland🤪

yeah I am old skool we still use points and we havent had to change them in years😂

Pfft... c'mon Ian.... where's the challenge in that ?!?!

Anyway, have now got my new trigger setup fitted... a 12 tooth Motech wheel, spaced out from the dry sump pulley with a GT101 sensor looking directly down onto it.

The pulley spacer and mounting the trigger wheel up is courtesy of dangerous, and uses a Type 3 pulley bolt and Berg washers, plus 5 M6 HT allen bolts to prevent any movement.



The sensor mount is my own crazy creation... 24mm thick bit of ally I milled down, mounted using the fuel pump bolts. A bit unconventional perhaps, but it's VERY stable and has PERFECT alignment and clearance of the sensor to the teeth.




Haven't driven her yet, but even just revving in the garage there's a noticeable difference...now starts almost instantly, iignition timing looks rock solid, and she sounds VERY angry up in the revs.

cool, hope its all sorted now.

I guess you wont be driving it on the street for any distance with that size pulley !

I was going to say just ring Ben Durie as he has the latest haltech on his and heaths car.....maybe he could have helped with the problem?

Pulley is actually 6 inch, but nah - she doesn't see much street driving these days.

Considered talking to Ben, but really the process of working through stuff is all part of the enjoyment for me.

👍

could you do a supersprint like Wakefield with that size pulley or not really ?

I did last year without any probs.... but then being dry sump I have a lot of oil and a decent cooler up front.

yeah but what about head temps or is the DTM that much better to keep them cool ?

Yeah, head temps were all fine.

The DTM is definitely better than the stock shroud, but I didn't have head temp gauges with the stock setup so can't give a definite figure on how much better.

Sides, had a problem with the Cook open wheeler that had similar characteristics to what you are describing. Turned out to be a faulty crank angle sensor. We run the same sensor for our road speed sensor, so just swapped it over.

Craig, Ben’s car has the latest Platnum computer the same as Sides, Garfield is still running on the 5yr old E8........at this stage can't see any point in updating.

Heath

Dave just put a Motec on it and be done with it

i made it even easier.just put a 200sx dizzy on mine.

Any updates dave ?

I believe it went on a diet.....

Interesting, how much did it weight and how much does it weight now??

Yeah, I've kinda let this thread lapse a bit hey....

😊

Update from the tail end of last season is that all my problems turned out to be caused by an ECU fault... there was some problem with the signal ground circuit which meant that when the alternator was charging the pulse width of the injectors could go haywire. Unsure if it's something that just happened or if related to the original alternator I had that failed. And of course being related to a spinning alternator higher revs made the problem worse.

Weirdly it didn't show up as signal noise in the triggers or anything like that which made it harder to figure out, but once FINALLY identified the ECU was repaired under warranty, bolted back in the car and all good and back to my normal pace for the last couple of events.

Since then the engine has had an off season check over, and although all looked good just couldn't resist the urge to play... so in went some notched Wiseco's and slightly longer rods... allowing for the cam to be advanced a bit without sacrificing compression or clearance.

Also a bit of outside-the-engine tinkering - adding an idle control circuit, experimenting with closed loop during warm up etc. etc. to try and just to make her a little easier to live with.

Oh plus one of Classic's Sidewinder systems to replace the cruddy old fat boy I had... it's REALLY SHINEY now CT !!!

😂

Re the diet - well my numbers at Warwick were consistent (ish) but didn't add up, so dangerous convinced me to get Jezzi weighed once and for all.

And wouldn't you know it - she's a bit of a porker !!!

As raced with about 1/4 tank of fuel, no driver and passenger seat removed... 880kg on the dot... so at Warwick with me and the passenger seat in she would've nudged and possibly tipped the 1000kg mark !!!

Since then without putting in speed holes or doing anything dodgy... just removing unecessary things like ash trays, lighter weight year model bits etc... the simple "weigh what comes off, weigh what goes on" with my digital fishing scale says have saved just on 20kg, with about another 6kg more I can still do.

And no - there's no titanium nuts involved - I haven't won Lotto !!!

🥷

End result... first event out she felt A LOT sharper in the handling, times more consistent than ever. Even on a massively hot day, tyres past their prime, all the usual driver excuses etc. I managed to improve my record by 0.25s... so time and effort well spent I think !!!

😀

Its going to scare me when I find out what the super weighs...... and it hasn't even got a cage yet!

I think i better loose 25kg's will be easier than taking 25kgs of of the car. To much expat living in SE Asia.....

Thanks for the update Dave 👍

Its amazing how the weight can add up with the various additions.......I remember weighing my hillclimb car (832kg) and wondered where all the weight was ! Rollcages, swaybars, braces etc all add weight 🥲

I reckon the ragtop is close to 1000kg's........the rear subwoofer box weighs in at 43kg alone !!!!!

Craig Torrens wrote:Thanks for the update Dave 👍

Its amazing how the weight can add up with the various additions.......I remember weighing my hillclimb car (832kg) and wondered where all the weight was ! Rollcages, swaybars, braces etc all add weight 🥲

I reckon the ragtop is close to 1000kg's........the rear subwoofer box weighs in at 43kg alone !!!!!

Forgot the ego that it drags around dude...

BiX wrote:Its going to scare me when I find out what the super weighs...... and it hasn't even got a cage yet!

I think i better loose 25kg's will be easier than taking 25kgs of of the car. To much expat living in SE Asia.....

Heh heh, yeah - all my work travel lately hasn't helped in that regard either !!!

😂

My plan is to do both... saving 40kg is better than saving 20kg.

Based on just the length of main members, the cage I've calc'd is around 70-80kg... so no chance of getting anywhere near Heath & Christine's 800kg or Col's 803kg with their alloy cages !!!

reub wrote:

Craig Torrens wrote:Thanks for the update Dave 👍

Its amazing how the weight can add up with the various additions.......I remember weighing my hillclimb car (832kg) and wondered where all the weight was ! Rollcages, swaybars, braces etc all add weight 🥲

I reckon the ragtop is close to 1000kg's........the rear subwoofer box weighs in at 43kg alone !!!!!

Forgot the ego that it drags around dude...

😂classic😂

Nice to see it making progress, keep it up. 👍

Just gad a really great day hillclimbing, so figured time for a bit of an update for the season.

The engine tinkering and weight reductions began paying off basically straight away - times very consistent and car very drivable but still sharp. I've missed quite a few events due to travelling for work, but a deal had made with my boss meant I'd get the big events at least.

👍

Queensland Hillclimb Champs in June was unfortunately a wet track, so although ran solidly and grabbed 2nd in class it wasn't a real test of things.

Racing at Valla beginning if Aug she ran flawlessly - managed to crack the 2 minutes several times (prev best 2:01) and grab 2nd in class behind Glen Torrens who had been trading times with all day.

Leyburn Sprints at end of Aug was a bit of a challenge with belt and pulley problems and a missed run as a result, but once sorted was all good and on song. Weirdly felt fast but about 0.8 behind my previous best. Looking at logs afterwards have decided it was all down to the driver... basically just being too timid and braking too early on a couple of corners really hitting my speed on the straights.

Warwick was going to be the real proof - pre Jezzi's diet my best for the 1/8th was 10.20, so my aim was to get under the 10 sec mark. First run Driving Miss Daisy clocked 10.24 and second run 9.98... Job Done !!! Best run was unfortunately my final run racing where I broke out with a 9.65 on a 9.70 dial in... losing by going too fast just seems nuts to me !!!

Running the numbers afterwards things now line up nicely for weight, hp, 60ft, ET and mph so pretty happy that am getting at least closer to driving her properly.

Finally this weekend just gone - hiillclimbing on a dry track for a change got a chance to really stretch her legs. Cool air good for power, but cloudy skies meant a cool track not so great for grip. I'm pretty timid for the sight in run and usually about 2 sec or so off the pace, but something just clicked and logged a 51.95 which was only 6/10ths off my best ever. 2nd run lowered my best by 8/100ths to 51.21 and then run 3 smashed it by almost half a second...my new PB a 50.85 !!! Run 4 overdrove slightly for a 51.55 but then final run backed it up with 50.94 incl a balked shift... definite proof the sub 51 time wasn't a fluke !!!

😀

Now I'm unfortunately on that long list of people at Mt Cotton trying to crack the 50... some take years to do it, but hey - it seems I have a combo that wants to get there so it should be fun at least !!!

😎

You drove well yesterday Dave and the car is looking and sounding great!! Well done

Great result Dave, it,s nice to reap the rewards off hard work 👍👍👍

Cheers Col

vassy66T1 wrote:You drove well yesterday Dave and the car is looking and sounding great!! Well done

Good to hear....well done Dave

Cheers for positive comments guys - I'm stoked, and quite a few questions at work yesterday of why the stoopid big grin.

Always been said that VW's kind of get into your blood, and racing 'em just even more so !!!

😉

Well done on flying the Vw flag so well.. I reckon if jez played music you would crack that 50.

Heh heh - thanks Pete... got any particular tune in mind ???

😂

Jezzi's been on another bit of a mini diet ahead of the final event for the year yesterday - saved just on another 13kg, mainly due to a lighter weight battery and box, fancy pedal pads back to grip tape, different fuel filters and a few other little things.

13kg doesn't sound much, but difference immediately noticeable - better turn in and so apexing the corners nicer, which helped me lower my PB by another .10s down to a 50.75.

Got some good vid's too:
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Pretty happy with progress for the season - now it's time to start cooking up the next round of off-season tweaks and see if can crack a 49 !!!
🙂

Smooth lines Dave!!!

I would have come to watch but I was at home making sure it wouldn't be my '54 on the bonfire at Lleyburn 👍

"oooh Honey !!!"

Good to hear you're back into it Marcus... definitely better idea to be turning spanners than spectating !!!

It's my girlfriend Kelly taking the video, and yup - she's copped just a little bit of sh!t about that comment so far, so I'll just add you to the stirrers list Craig.

😉

The funniest thing is she was trying soooo hard to not say anything... you should hear some of the earlier videos !!!

😂

Hahaha, its funny some of the stuff you catch on video; my Mrs is usually paying out my car when I'm not around!

Looks good though would love to get out to Mt Cotton

Sides wrote:Good to hear you're back into it Marcus... definitely better idea to be turning spanners than spectating !!!

It's my girlfriend Kelly taking the video, and yup - she's copped just a little bit of sh!t about that comment so far, so I'll just add you to the stirrers list Craig.

😉

The funniest thing is she was trying soooo hard to not say anything... you should hear some of the earlier videos !!!

😂

P.s. Car sounds strong !

Craig Torrens wrote:"oooh Honey !!!"

Awwww... dats so sweet 😍

Yesterday was another Test & Tune at Mt Cotton... basically a chance for people to sort their cars leading up to the Queensland Hillclimb Champs in 2 weeks time.

For me it was another chance to for some fun, and to proof some of the tweaks have been making.

First run was the usual sight-in deal... 2nd run track still cold, but then from 3rd run just kept chipping away repeatedly lowering my PB.

6th and Final run... 49.90 seconds... woohoo !!!

😀



My mission for the year was to get into the 49's... might have to rethink that one a bit now...

😉

Good job

Nationals?

hellbugged wrote:Nationals?

Nah - not for me unfortunately Daimo... date clash with the Sprints series I'm running in out at Stanthorpe.

🙁

My next China trip might be getting moved, so tempted to run the Grafton round in June...

Congratulations Dave, well done!!

Congrates Dave. That is a very fine effort and a top time. Well done.

Good work Dave - awesome time! - Best times seem to be set between 11-00 to about 2-00pm (more sun on the track)

Sides wrote:

hellbugged wrote:Nationals?

Nah - not for me unfortunately Daimo... date clash with the Sprints series I'm running in out at Stanthorpe.

🙁

My next China trip might be getting moved, so tempted to run the Grafton round in June...

Grafton round is on the June long weekend, Heath, Christine and myself will be racing. Its a good little track you would love it. Entry is via the Grafton Sporting Car Club with online entry.
awesome effort to crack a 49👍

Cheers Col

Thanks for comments guys - as can imagine I'm totally stoked !!!

Grafton lookin more and more a possibility for me... fingers crossed.

😀

Any more mods/changes/ exciting stuff etc etc to update us on ??

Seems to be new parts that are engine related keep turning up 😉

Yeah, nothing major to report really... she's been running strong, times steadily improving, and really only minor tinkering going on.

The "parts accumulating" stage is underway for the next phase, just that work, lack of time and lack of shed space/organization have been getting in the way a bit...

Sweet as sides..your only going the get faster unless u put a subi in it🙅😂😂

What tyres you running

Whats in the plans??

Heh heh - first in my plan is to get out of the freezing cold of Toronto, Canada and back home to the warmth !!!

🙂



Chris - currently have Advan A050 Soft's, but they're 18 months old, pretty low on tread, and really a bit past their prime now. Will probably go with the same again tho I think.

Nathan - current engine will go into another car, and then a fresh build for Jezzi... DPR 72mm crank, 94 Wiseco's, 044 Super Pro's, Pauter O3E8, and CR in the realm 11-11.5:1. Of course will be staying dry-sumped and Haltech'd same as current setup. Nothing TOO fancy, just maybe a extra few ponies/torque and maybe even rev's to help close the gap to a couple of Escort's I come up against pretty regularly.

👍