Telling the age of a beetle

I've been trying to work out the age of my beetles and haven't had any luck working out the vin numbers
does anyone have a link to a site that might be able to help me?
Also should the body number be the same as the number on the pan?

Cheers
Mike

ask on here tell us the chassis number and we will advise the year model

boody and chassis dont match

The Club Veedub website will have a chassis number reference page in a month or so once the redesign has finished.

In the meantime, up to 1965 VW chassis numbers were just 'consecutive' numbers. They don't tell the year model by themselves; you have to consult workshop manuals or reference pages to tell the model year.

After 1965 the chassis numbers were redesigned and were stamped in this format: 11y nnnnnn where '11' means Type 1 (Beetle), and the third digit 'y' is the year model - for example, a 3 there means a 1973. Note that Australian-manufactured Beetles have a '9' as the second digit - US websites know nothing about that.

As Dave says, there is no connection between between chassis number and body number. Even the engine number doesn't match, apart from a certain size matching certain years.

Good VW workshop manuals such as Haynes, Bentley, Clymer, InterEurope, Gregorys/Scientific always list data like chassis and engine numbers. The Gregorys was published in Australia and is the most reliable for our VWs for that sort of information.

The difficulties arise when previous owners start swapping floorpans and bodies, or even restamp new numbers on the pan. Post us some info and we can help you.

when did ovals actually stop getting made

August 57

Yes that's when Wolfsburg changed over. But I suspect they might have continued another month or two in Australia as ours were assembled CKD in Melbourne. It took a while for the kits to be shipped out from Germany, then assembled/welded and finished at Clayton.

Early period road tests from Feb-March 1958 were referring to the big window updated body, so I'm guessing ours were updated in the last few months of '57 (or even over the Xmas break).

vw54 wrote:ask on here tell us the chassis number and we will advise the year model

boody and chassis dont match

The body number is 196142098
and the chassis number is 386982
The number on the chassis of my turquoise beetle is the same as that on the body so it got me thinking about the other beetle with the different numbers.

Hmm, are you sure you haven't got the two numbers the wrong way around?

196142098 sounds precisely like a CHASSIS number - for an Australian-manufactured 1966 Beetle. Remember for post-'65 to early '68 Aussie VWs, '19y nnnnnn' is the format. So '196' means 1966.

The chassis number you quoted - 386982 - seems to be missing a digit. The numbers are sequential for early VWs, and remember the 1 millionth was made in 1955. That number - of itself - implies a VW made in late 1952 (only 386,982 had been built then). BUT it won't be - chassis numbers of that early time had a '1-' in front of the number. So it would have read '1-386982' if it was a genuine 1952. But VWs weren't sold in Australia until 1954.

Can you post a picture of your Beetle and we'll see?

The 1961 number is defiantly on the body because I always assumed it was a 61 model.
I thought the pan number wasn't long enough but I'm nearly certain that its only 6 digit (I will check it again though)
I don't have any photos at the moment but will try and get some.
The colour is called polar white if that helps narrow things down.

vw54 wrote:ask on here tell us the chassis number and we will advise the year model

boody and chassis dont match

Please help very confused so called '55' oval
Body number: MKA 14692
Chassis number: 5425257
there is no id plate under the hood

Oval body on a later pan. This was done quite a bit in the 80's and 90's.

but do you know the year

5.4millionth would put it around 63

i need to know the year of the body

That MKA number would be a 56 year model.

interesting cause on the back of the speedo it says 8.55 so i thought it meant August 1955.

August 55 is a 56 year model,

volumex wrote:August 55 is a 56 year model,

in 1955 the VW Year was still jan 1st to 31st december

they didn't change that until 1960-61 models...

LEE

In August 1955, Volkswagen adopted the American style of model year. Hence from 1 August 1955 to 31 July 1956, Volkswagen produced 1956 model year cars.

VW Beetle Specification Guide 1949-1967 James Richardson 2007

This year, 1955, also marks the start of the August to August model year system, whereby significant production changes occurred after the traditional factory shutdown.

Original VW Beetle Laurence Meredith 1994

In August 1955 Volkswagen shifted to a U.S. style model year schedule. For example a Beetle manufactured between August 1, 1955 and August 1, 1956 would be considered a 1956 beetle.

The 1949-1959 VW Beetle Bob Wilson 1994

All bugs prior to 1955 were built according to the calendar year, this simply means for example if the car was built at any date in 1954 then that car is a 1954 model. On August 1, 1955 VW introduced the Model year. From this day forward VW started next years production on this date.

Wolfsburg West catalog 2006.

I'd be interested in seeing documentation to show the 1960/61 was when the year models changed.

ahhh i see thank you so i take it its a 56 but just by a couple of weeks

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php all the info you will need is here

The Samba doesn't list MKA numbers.

patina wrote:ahhh i see thank you so i take it its a 56 but just by a couple of weeks

I forgot to add that based on the MKA number, the body will have been assembled around May/June 1956. The speedo will have come from an earlier car.

[quote}I'd be interested in seeing documentation to show the 1960/61 was when the year models changed. [/quote]

Yes 1960/61 is wrong.

For US-market Beetles built in Wolfsburg, VW changed to the August build year in 1955, and as most of the books (and websites) written about VWs come from the USA, this has become a universal truth.

BUT - for European market VWs, both the 'Export' Beetles and especially the 'Standard' model that was not sold in the USA, VW did keep the Jan-Dec model year for a couple more years. This is a scan from the Volkswagen Exchange Service Catalogue from August 1975 (Document 735.008.85). It lists dates and chassis/engine numbers for exchange engines.

I'm confinedd by the 100 kb limit for attachments (can that be improved please?) so it's a bit hard to read. But look at the left-hand column. The first mention of August is 1-8-1955, when US models changed over. However it continues to list December (and omits August 1956 and 1958!) It also includes October 1957. Things don't really settle down and become consistent until August 1959.

So I suspect that for 1955-59 there was some ambiguity over exactly when a 'year model' began. Sure August for US-market export models, but for domestic lower spec models it wasn't so clear cut. And especially as the factory made on-line improvements and parts changes throughout the year, not just on 1st August.

An additional complication is that Australian market Beetles, after June 1954, were locally assembled in Melbourne from CKD kits. As the years went on, many parts were locally sourced. Chassis numbers, and specific parts changes, will not exactly match those of German-made cars, especially after 1960. The Australian factory's model year began in February (after the Xmas holildays), not the previous August. Our cars only reverted to the August model year when CKD was reintroduced in 1968 - and even then, it took four or five months for the changes to trickle through to production.

I have a couple of MKA number I would like dated if someone can help.

MKA 8833 and MKA 17738
Thanks
Dave

MKA 8833 will be a 56 year model built around mid October 55.
MKA 17738 will be a 57 year model built towards the end of 1956 / start of 1957.

Edit: I am still refining this info, so any and all corrections welcome.

Thanks for that, I think that would be close,

The early car still has SEKURIT glass and 8/55 on the speedo, the later one has the early position heater outlets, don't have the speedo for it yet.

On this topic, i am looking at a 1962 karmann cabrio bug from USA. I am interested if it is on the body is on the correct chassis or not.

If i was to obtain the numbers, could i find out if it is correct?

Body numbers are a black art. The production lists on the Samba are your best source of information - the birth certificates from Wolfsburg don't list the body numbers.

Is Steve's 54 Karman still for sale? That would be heaps easier than getting one in from the US with the new modified car laws...

the age look at its teeth like they do me or should i say tooth😂🤪🥲

was there ever a 53 split window beetle with an oval dash. I have seen many pictures and if so did they come in RHD?

Yes and yes. The Irish and South African CKD kits were RHD, and both countries were producing cars during the Zwitter period of 1 Oct 52 to 10 March 53.

volumex wrote:Yes and yes. The Irish and South African CKD kits were RHD, and both countries were producing cars during the Zwitter period of 1 Oct 52 to 10 March 53.

Are there any in Australia? anyone got any pics

hi i need some help seeing what year my vw beetle is
the numbers are matching on front id plate and on transmission tunnel 2585760
the motor all i can find is below a long housing that says 7188099
hope someone can help me
dale

There are plenty of websites that give info on chassis numbers / model years - such as http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/specgeninfo/chassisnumbers.htm

From this one, we see that 1959 models begin with 1774680; 1960 begins 2528668, and 1961 begins 3192507.

Your chassis number is therefore 1960. In fact it's very close to the start - 1960 contains 3192507-2528668 = 663,839 cars and yours is just the 57,092nd of that model year. In Europe the model year began the previous August - ie. August 1959 - but Australian-made VWs were a few months behind Europe. I would think your VW was made in the first few months of 1960. Your engine number is a little later - it's a 40-hp 1200 made some time in 1962 so it's not the original engine.

i thought it might be 1960 but its been licensed as a 59
i only just brought it
it does have the indicators that pop out the side did the 60 model have them
dale

Up to about July, 1960, semaphores were used on Beetles here. They had a dished steering wheel, with horn ring, lacquer paint, push-button door handles, softer rear torsion bars, front anti-roll bar, and a few interior changes. Later '60 models had baked enamel paint - with new colours, blinkers, and probably a few more minor changes.

ive been to about 8 different sites some say 60 some say 59
it does have push button doors like the 60
they tell me the 1960 had a steering damper i cant find one on the car

Could be either late '59, or early '60. Check out the 'dot' on the Armourplate sign on the glass.

It's a 1959 year model. Just to make it confusing, the 59 and 60 year models didn't start in the August 😂.

Ref from Progressive Refinements.

thanks heaps for that the licensing centre said it was too
they say late 59 model
great to be be sure thanks for everyones import i love being part of this site

ok im back hahahaha
my plate says made in west germany
im taking it it is a 60 model but made in 59 is that correct
far out this is confusing hahahhaah

The first 30 years is the hardest - it gets easier after that.
You have a 1959 year model car built in 1959.
A few points to note are that not all factory changes occurred at the year model change - many occurred throughout the year.
Also the car is 50 years old, and may have had parts changed during that time.
The book I quoted from above is a German document, and as the Australian cars got more locally produced parts they had more discrepancies with German production. For 50's cars it will be fine, but anything in the 60's should be treated with caution.

Any help appreciated on dating my Oval..

Chassis number 1560101 .... this is November 1953

MKA 7118 ..... Makes it an Aussie assembled CKD

So any ideas on when it was assembled in 1954 ..... and does it still make it a Nov 53 Oval ?

Thanks, Mark.

Martin and King did not start assembly of VW CKD kits until June 1954.

Have another look at your chassis number - is it 1560101 or 1-560101? VW dropped the '1-' prefix in December 1955, shortly after the one millionth VW was built. The last 1955 chassis number was 1-1060929, so that extra 1- at the front was causing confusion.

If your number is actually 1-560101, then in all likelihood some 1953-dated CKD kits were shipped to Australia and assembled by Martin and King many months later. One kit did not contain the parts for one car; in fact 12 crates held the parts for 8 cars. Does your VW have date stamps in the wheel centres, and at the back of the speedo?

If your number is actually 1560101 (without the dash), then that makes it a 1957 - by which time Martin and King had been purchased by Volkswagen Australasia.

Hi Phil,

Many thanks for your reply. you are correct - I went down the chart and found my number as a 53, however I didn't realise the hyphen made a difference, now reading down the chart further, it is indeed a 57 chassis !

Another member has dated the mka number on the body for me as 1955 and this makes sense as it has ribbed doors and the starter switch hole on the dash.

It seems it's just a bitsa so I will put the body on my 58 running gear.