I thought its about time to start a thread on my car, this is my 1st real project car as such so I thought it was a good idea to start 1/2 way so I bought an unfinished project 18 months ago, so far not much has changed except my ideas.
Quick specs are:
Black 71 super, with aero guards
Rs liberty ej20t, almost all the conversion stuff is done
radiator up front, stainless steel pipes running in the heater channels
disc brakes and suspension I believe is a V-Force kit, adjustable coilovers, alpha brembos front, pbr rear, discs in porsche stud pattern
seam welded chassis and gutters removed
kafer style rear strut brace, single side plate gear box
Thats most of the major stuff for now.
My 1st question to everybody is an engineering one,
I'd like to run some large wheels, the trouble is beetles have small track, what Ive got so far from the engineer is the wheels and most importantly the offset needs to match the stub axles of the vehicle they came off.
for example 944 trailing arms and stub axles = 944 standard wheels =no prob for engineering
prob is I dont like standard 944 flat dish type wheels much, for my car anyway. I have some fuchs deep dish 3 piece wheels not sure which porsche they fit, or id like to run some porsche turbo wheels or similar. So how have other people overcome this, what was the size and offset of the wheels and which model porsche stub axles did u use?
Birdman ·
If you are running alloy 944 arms they came with wheels ranging from et 23 to et 52.3. That gives you a bit of range. In NSW you can go +or- 12.5MM from there so et11 to et65. The front is the problem.
Dub_Life ·
Thanks birdman for the reply, I ve checked with my engineer and in sa you can go +/- 13mm. There is alot more wheels then I thought with in that range. So I'll keep shopping for now.
At the moment the car is in having a few things checked, if the engine all checks out and wiring was done properly (had a bad experince with that long story) it should be running soon.
I'll try and post a pic not sure how it will turn out,
Also I plan on changing the radiator set up so I dont need to have the holes in the bonnet.
1303Steve ·
Hi
Cant wait to see more on this car. Its been proved many times that you don't need big holes in the front of the car to keep them cool, after all it gives the game away.
Steve
Fastie ·
This is true - a lot of the cooling can be done from the pipes under the car depending on what they are made from.
Dub_Life ·
Thanks Jak and Steve, Your cars are awesome (including your old yellow bug Steve) and where a big inspiration to get one myself, and I agree with you Steve about giving the game up.
At the moment it has a huge radiator it couldn't be any bigger mounted on an angle, because this project started back in early 2000 ish I guess the 1st owner was trying to get it as cool as possible.
I'll have a look for some more pics, but I've lost a few with an iphoto problem. I'll take some when the car comes back too.
Dub_Life ·
Fastie wrote:This is true - a lot of the cooling can be done from the pipes under the car depending on what they are made from.
Yeah I have heard this too but my water pipes are stainless steel and run through the heater channels, It's a really neat job I hope it doesn't cause any probs down the track, I've also heard an oil cooler is going to help run things cooler and assisted a smaller radiator, which I'll look at when I change radiators.
On a separate note it currently has an air to air intercooler underneath a GT2 style rear wing (like Steves) which I don't particularly like (sorry just not a big wing fan myself) I've picked up an rs liberty water to air and heat exchanger as a plan but I really want to copy or similar to what Mick58 did with his intercooler setup, might use Frozenboost.com as a source anyone heard or used there stuff. I've had two good opinions so far..
Joel ·
Dub_Life wrote:
Fastie wrote:This is true - a lot of the cooling can be done from the pipes under the car depending on what they are made from.
Yeah I have heard this too but my water pipes are stainless steel and run through the heater channels, It's a really neat job I hope it doesn't cause any probs down the track
Inside the heaterchannels may be neat and safe but it's gonna make the inside of your car like an oven in summer.
People go so big the radiators for no reason, I saw one subi bug with a VL commodore radiator 🤪
With the rad in the front and 38mm pipe mines got triple the original coolant capacity plus the stainless lines underneath in the road draft do alot of the cooling.
My rad is only a tiny thing out of a 1.3-1.5L alfa but even on these couple of 40c days we've just had it's coped fine even with a/c condensor heating it up.
Trick is to get good air flow through it but then making sure the heat gets away as well.
Dub_Life ·
Thanks Jak your set up has been tried well tested and proven to work really good!! I'll see how it goes when the ball gets rolling. Do you have a pic of how your WAIC is mounted did you cut through the fire wall?
That Plazmaman WAIC sounds good pit more $$$ compared to other options I know u get what u pay for but funding needs to spread along way theres so much left to finish.
Also haven't decided weather A/C will be good too, so not sure if there will be enough room for all those coolers, heat exchanger and condensor in the tyre well?? One slow step at a time I guess...
Cheers Joel VL radiator thats nothing mines off a truck 😂 nah sounds similar, Do u think theres a way of insulating my heater channels before the carpet goes in to improve inside temp? I guess if it gets to bad I can always bi pass them easy enough..
ian.mezz ·
90 DEG hot pipes in side the car 🥲
you only need a small radiator & hole.
Joel ·
And a lower ride height 😎
Theres a few different stick on sound deadeners on the market that have heat shield too so you can reduce noise as well as heat by sticking it to the heater channels
If it's already setup and running suck it and see, if it's too hot then look at running the pipes underneath
Dub_Life ·
Yeah I agree Joel I'll wait and see how it goes 1st,
Thanks for the pic Jak I thought that would be the way to do that too, at the moment my manifold is reversed and I couldn't see a way it would go in under a standard boot lid, its to wide for the boot hinges. So far my engineer knows about the water pipes and doesn't have a problem... yet. But I guess it can get interesting a bit closer to registration.
Added a couple of pics its about all I have at the moment.
I'm still up in the air with the interior, I don't think I'll use the yellow seats they're a bit wide for me, I cant exactly have better buckets in my daily. The dash wasn't trimmed very well and has a few imperfections however I like the shape, I'll add some air vents for de-misters maybe a couple of other gauges etc.
Dub_Life ·
try again
cam070 ·
More pics, more pics. This thing looks like a beast and has a lovely stance.
I can see some nice custom touches, 1 piece window kit and M3 mirrors and some phat Fuchs.
Dub_Life ·
I've got my eye on some new wheels and currently calculating if they will fit, with out the car here to measure at the moment, I thought I'd just ask since alot of people would have tried before...
The wheels are 18 x 8 et 49 front and 18 x 9.5 et 52 rear
The offset is ok for engineering but will they hit the bump stops in the rear or the struts at the front (which are narrow coilovers from v force)?
Anyone have similar size with or without room to spare? Any help would be great thanks.
1303Steve ·
Hi
I have 18x8 ET 40 on my new 1303 with the same struts as you, they are very close, so ET 49 would be worse as you suspected.
On my old 1302 I ran 17x9 with 14.5 ET. the 18x9.5 52 ET would be much closer to the inner part, by about 44 mm over my old 17s, you could make this up by going 1986 944 rear brakes, they gave me roughly 42 mm per side track increase.
What does the engineer feel about spacers?
Steve
STIDUB ·
18x9.5 +18 under aeros, but no beading
thats the inner clearance to everything, if you can fit anything with a higher offset with steel arms id be amazed
keen to see more of this though...
ian.mezz ·
Whats going on with your tyres???
they don't seem to have a curved on the side wall???
STIDUB wrote:18x9.5 +18 under aeros, but no beading
thats the inner clearance to everything, if you can fit anything with a higher offset with steel arms id be amazed
keen to see more of this though...
Aussie Dubbin ·
I think what you're trying to say is that the tyres are too narrow for the width of the wheel hence the tree and relating tyre wall lean out to the rim edge instead of away from the rim edge like normal?
there are lots of considerations for this
Joel ·
ian.mezz wrote:Whats going on with your tyres???
they don't seem to have a curved on the side wall???
Dontchu know anyfing?
Stretched is where its at
1303Steve ·
For those old enough to remember Waltons department stores, they would have mag wheels on display with a cross ply tyre mounted with that sort of stretch.
cam070 ·
Those wheels are just waiting for some gutter rash.
Dub_Life ·
Thanks Steve, so it seams the only way the fronts will fit is with spacers, when u say very close 9mm extra might make it?? (I'll ask my engineer about spacers)
And thanks STIDUB for the pics, bit hard to tell if there's about 32mm of clearance there but it looks pretty close cheers! Also just wondering what size tyre they are?
If I take the path of 944 trailing arms I believe the alloy turbo ones are the ones that widen the track the most, can the discs and calipers I have be adapted to these, its just they appear to be brand new? Is it possible the disc brake conversion on my car is wider then stock? If any of this has been covered (with pics) a link would be great! I'll try searching after this post and see what I can learn.
Dub_Life ·
Forgot to update...... Wiring on the car is still a mess but everything thing seems to be going to the right places now, the engine has turned over (I'm yet to hear🥲) but I needed a new ignition switch. The idle control valve is missing too I think it was removed to fit the intercooler so I need to pick up that this week, and the mechanic said the starter motor works a little hard to turn it over. Are there any options to replace it with or is this something you put up with with this conversion?
STIDUB ·
from rim to trailing arm was about 15/20mm from memory - keep in mind you have 10/15mm for bolts to squeeze in there too, the outer edge was JUST under the edge of the guard too, add beading & it would of sat under just fine, limits your toe adjustment options though
tyres were 235/35s i think, or 40s, they are long gone now 😉
your wheel width & offset will change slightly to everyone elses depending on the discs & caliper bracket mounted on the trailing arm, to be more driveable im looking at going 9" +22 ish on the rear & 7 +12 on the front, sounds like my fronts are pretty different to yours though, but same strut, ive gone my way to be sure im not limiting steering angles so the clearance to the strut is HUGE, for referance that same 18x9.5 +18 fits my fronts with about... 5mm to the spring, tyre stretch worked out to be the exact match to the bend in the sway bar at full lock 🤪
Dub_Life ·
Thanks jak so maybe mine just needs a recon I'll see how it is when I get it back...
ian.mezz ·
Dub_Life wrote:Thanks jak so maybe mine just needs a recon I'll see how it is when I get it back...
If you can find one a semi auto starter is a little stronger and doesn't need the bell housing bush.
My front tyres wouldn't have 9 mm clearance. I saw a car that was engneered and it had spacers actually welded to wheel, your engineer may allow this
Steve
Joel ·
A healthy stock vw starter will be fine with a turbo motor.
They have very low compression similar to a stock vw engine (8.0)
Its the N/A engines that are harder on the stock starters.
My starter of unknown age (untouched in 11 years since I've owned it) was coping with my EJ22 which has 9.7CR and years of my 1776 and 1835 engines at 8.8 and 9.2 but I replaced it with a semi-auto starter like Steve mentioned.
Turns over much quicker when hot and no more bushing to worry about.
They are a factory hi-torque starter.
THe other option is fit a subaru starter motor with a cranky kit.
JVLRacing ·
1303Steve wrote:Hi
If you can find one a semi auto starter is a little stronger and doesn't need the bell housing bush.
My front tyres wouldn't have 9 mm clearance. I saw a car that was engneered and it had spacers actually welded to wheel, your engineer may allow this
Steve
hi steve, welded spacers to wheels...do u have a pic of that mate...😎
1303Steve ·
JVLRacing wrote:hi steve, welded spacers to wheels...do u have a pic of that mate...😎
H John
I don't have a photo, but it was done for a V Force customer, they had 17x7 55ET wheels that needed to come out an 1 inch on the rear.
I had the same issue with my sons bug, I fitted 944 rear brakes and arms to achieve the same outcome, they gave me a 25 mm per side track increase.
Steve
Dub_Life ·
Thanks guys for the help with wheel widths sounds like a no in this currant form, but I do still have options to work out.....
Are the various porsche trailing arms able to be adapted to the brakes I have?
STIDUB ·
^ id suggest if $$$ allows, buy the complete arm & brakes together, and the front rotors/calipers too, will make approval later easier if its all from one car, for compatibility conncerns id suggest checking out germanlook forums for the porsche brake tech stuff, stacks of info on there, but usually mere mortal wallets/plastic doesnt approve 😢
Dub_Life ·
I just got one price for the the complete alloy arm disc and calliper, and no kidding about the price.... does anyone have a good resource for used porsche parts. Also this guy said they wont fit "To Wide" but Steve your beetle def has 944 turbo alloy arms correct?
Maybe steel arms with some of my parts will work too.. Spacers aren't really legal and engineer didn't like the welded to the wheel option but using an adapter which is bolted correctly is a passable way.
Thanks for info so far guys... I think I'm going the hard way around things most people would have started with a running beetle then made the improvements from there over coming obstacles as they go Im trying to start some where in the middle by filling aero guards with legal offset wheels for the load on the stub axles etc. Seems like to many if's and measurements
Back to the reseach
1303Steve ·
Hi
My arms are alloy 1986 944 non turbo. I'm think all 944 alloy arms are the same width, you can do some searching on Germanlook.net
Steve
Aussie Dubbin ·
i think the three different arms have three different offsets.
Pickpocket ·
Steel, or early (pre 1985), 944 arms have the same with and dimensions as an IRS Superbeetle. Aluminum, or late (post 1985), arms are considerably wider than steel and there is no difference between turbo or non-turbo. Hope this helps.
Dub_Life ·
Just a quick update its been a while, The engine wiring is virtually complete I got to here it start up the other day, but for some reason the clutch is not working apparently when its flat to the floor there is still along way to go before it will disengage??
So engine and gearbox will be coming out to get to the bottom of this.... my question is should I strengthen the gearbox while its out I'm thinking of a set of albins gears, maybe super diff or LSD (are a bit pricey not sure if it worth it) I would have liked straight cut gears for 1st and 2nd I like the sound but they don't make them anymore.
Only trouble is I have a long way to go with this project but I feel its a good time to do something if it will probably get done one day anyway.
Also ATM I,m looking at other wheel options like having the offset changed on mine or getting new wheels made altogether.
Ben386 ·
Keep the photos coming.This car looks mean.Aeroguards go off!Wheels look great.Black Bugs are Bad ass.
Dub_Life ·
Its been awhile since I've updated, but things are still moving along slowly. Heres a list of whats new,
944 alloy radiator mounted waiting to be plumbed in.
porsche cvs and drive shafts fitted.
Simmons OM wheels not fitted
Brake fluid reservoir cover and braket made
Played around with my flare tool on an old deck lid.
Dub_Life ·
the rest of the pics
Dub_Life ·
Cheers jak, So just to clarify looking at an old pic of yours, in order it goes pusher fan/waic radiator/ pusher fan/ main radiator/ puller fan on an angle laying backwards? Do all those fans come on together, controlled by the ecu? I have thought about the angling my radiator to give a bit more room for piping but I thought air hitting it flat on would be better? Is the main reason u suggest that so I can fit a pusher fan and the waic radiator in?
I totally agree with the bonnet holes, I've already got another bonnet to go on...
1303Steve ·
Hi
Laving the radiator down will make it more effective to small degree as the air flowing through will have to deflect a bit and remove more heat.
Steve
karmann141 ·
Hi dub_life
You have probably got your wheel sizes and offsets sorted
but this is a handy site for porsche to vw conversions with all the dimensions you need.
There are actually 3 types of Porsche 944 rear trailing arms - see attached link
I have the early 944 steel rear trailing arms and brakes with Porsche Cayman 18x9 ET43 and complete front early 944 hub and brakes on VW adjustable strut with standard spring with Cayman 18x8 ET57. All fit nicely under the Aero guards.
Dub_Life ·
Sorry karmann141 had a busy september, yeah offsets are pretty well sorted just need spacers on the rear cos they are 10"s.
I've decided to cut the fire wall out, and box it outwards (like many have done) for a few reasons, I cant squeeze my air filter in, it will allow easier access later on and it will give me more room for the waic and the rest of the stuff.
Any advice regarding engineering or the likes and any photos would be great!!
Dub_Life ·
Here's how I think it will all sit, I'm putting a 16" spal fan (not in pic) behind and this will all be shrouded in. The fan is slightly taller then the 944 rad but ill mount the WAIC rad at the top and make the shroud so it pulls through it. I might add a pusher fan on top but ill see how it goes for a bit.
Trying to fit the pod filter and AFM is a challenge but I think I've overcome it by passing the intake hose through the wall and back, it will be boxed in inside too.