Just wondering if anyone else has had problems either fitting Kafer Bars due to their heater boxes or as in my case now cant fit heater boxes due to Kafer bar being in the way.
Looks like if I want to keep the Kafer Bars to stops frame horns twisting etc then I am going to have to ditch the heater boxes. But this is not really an option as I spent a fortune on ceramic coated heater boxes and a sidewinder exhaust. We also mustn't forget the new tinware to suit a heater that I had to modify and then had all powder coated.
Not very happy, Kev.
Note: Even tried a standard heater box and same problem 馃槵
hellbugged 路
yeah Joel said he had that issue as well 馃檨
chin up, always a solution out there, just more time and thought unfortunately
OZ Towdster 路
Some pics may help us to help you with a solution
Camo 路
OZ Towdster wrote:Some pics may help us to help you with a solution
Here ya go. Hard to get the right angle of the path the rod is meant to take, but you should get the idea. I have added a rough line of where it should be, but the heater box is in the way.
And this one with the bar in place if you can work out where the heater box is meant to be.
Kev
OZ Towdster 路
MMMMMMMM As you say the pictures don't do the problem much justas , but the several solution that come to mind are 1 puting holes in the heater boxs and running the kafer bars through said box with rubber grommets at the entry and exit point .2 adjust the kafer bar to exactly how you want those 2 bars adjusted and then get custom bent or offset bracket bars made to suit , yes they won't be adjustable but once set this shouldn't change on a street car .
3 . move the bottom mount point foward ?? to avoid the boxs .
What ever your solution ' i'd be keeping in contact with Craig or where ever you purchased the kafer bar from and make it an optional upgrade to the kit .
Andrew
ian.mezz 路
If you cant get that one on , it a waste of time having the other two on.馃槩
Camo 路
ian.mezz wrote:If you cant get that one on , it a waste of time having the other two on.馃槩
That's what I thought, these are the two main bars to stop the frame horn flexing.
Kev
STIDUB 路
could you maybe make a small bracket to line up with the bar off the gearbox mount? id suggest a thicker gearbox mount to match but kicking it out/up that little bit higher may solve the issue, failing that, just wear a jumper gloves & beanie like the rest of the worlds dubbers in cold areas 馃榿
on a side note, looks like your making great progress 馃憤
Aussie Dubbin 路
There are no problems only solutions waiting to be found
helbus 路
Aussie Dubbin wrote:There are no problems only solutions waiting to be found
Very positive thinking. I like it.
dogo 路
Do both sides foul? or just the near side?
Camo 路
Yes, both sides foul and here are photos of the drivers side.
You can see in the first photo the upper and lower mounts and then in the second trying to line both mounts up, the heater box is in the way. And this is 1/2 cylinder which is further back, so the passengers side 3/4 cylinder is even worse.
Thanks for the ideas also, Kev
Joel 路
This was the issue I found as Daimo mentioned.
started putting a spare engine with heaterboxes in and clunk before it hit home base.
Not sure how viable it would be but the best solution I thought of was a bar with a dogleg around the heaterbox.
HappyDaze 路
Any bends in those bars would make them virtually useless.
dogo 路
Big brother say's "heater boxes, it's time to go".
It does seem to be the best option! Call it a learning exercise and continue with the work. It's looking good.
ian.mezz 路
just take them off. I dont think you will drive it that much let aloan like peter.
If you want to drive around like peter brock use your commodore .馃お
Bizarre 路
You would use the heater boxes more than the kafer bar set up
Camo 路
dogo wrote:Big brother say's "heater boxes, it's time to go".
It does seem to be the best option! Call it a learning exercise and continue with the work. It's looking good.
I understand what you are saying, but my ceramic coated heater boxes, exhaust and all other parts that go hand in hand with having a heater cost me over $1200. So I'm sure you can see why I want to keep them, not to mention having to buy new dog house cooler tinware and then having to fit it.
And I think one good reason to keep them is so as to have a demister which is required and the car has to pass an engineers exam. But the biggest reason to keep them is so the wife might actually come in the car in the winter time with me.
Heater boxes are staying.
Kev
dogo 路
No worries, problem part solved.
matberry 路
Like the Towdster said, I'd be modding the heater box's to get around the bars. The braces must be straight. Once the heater box's are modded a few more dollars and they'll be pretty again too 馃檪
Aussie Dubbin 路
Ask craig fro two extra bars and moutn further up and below the Heater boxes... Surely you can find a few mounting points?what if you welded/made up a vertical bar from the trans mount to the firewall and went somewhere there?
vw54 路
WOTAM waste of time and money as Bazza said u wil be using the heater boxes more than the bars
Its a crussier not a FULL ON race car sell them off n get some money back
Ive never had anything that fancy Even Greg dosent have that stuff
Joel 路
Yea but you drive like teh old wimmens 馃お
Greg, it wouldnt take much of a bend to clear, not enough to cause a loss of strength or movement anyway.
Special Air Service 路
HappyDaze wrote:Any bends in those bars would make them virtually useless.
Could you not bend the bars just enough to clear, then gusset the back of the bar to replace any strength that could have been lost through bending?
hellbugged 路
get Craig to cut a THICK plate with center hole that goes over the heater box.........with mounting tang on each side
send him the bars to be shortened and tapped for clevis joints
4 bars
could be nuts, but just a different take on it
yeah heater boxes are cool, recently borrowed a beetle with them in tact and absolutely loved it with the heat on tap!
Craig S 路
hellbugged wrote:yeah heater boxes are cool,
I thought the point of heater boxes was that they were uncool 馃お馃お馃お
ian.mezz 路
馃槀馃お馃槀馃お馃槀馃お馃槀馃お馃槀
Joel wrote:Yea but you drive like teh old wimmens 馃お
Greg, it wouldnt take much of a bend to clear, not enough to cause a loss of strength or movement anyway.
hellbugged 路
馃槀........i'd like to see how the #$%^ you bend em and then get the tabs to line back up!
cut em..........keep the two end pieces and curve two more pieces around each side of the heaters..... notch them neato.........tig em up!
OZ Towdster 路
Just need to be care full that if doing a dog leg rod that when wound into tension , ie perfect adjustment position that when reinstalled with the dog leg in place that the desired position / adjustment also has the dogleg going the correct way as in , hell you know what i mean .
And as for the views of it's only a streeter and the kafer bars are not needed , well you best have a look at the rear of your engine under hard excelaration before and after the fitment of a Kafer bar or similar
beetleboyjeff 路
I am sort of glad you have identified this problem Kev - I am thinking of getting some later on, but I love my heaters too much to get rid of them.
I think there is a lot of merrit in Damo's idea - I think if something like this could be developed, it would certainly give more people the option of using them.
Camo 路
hellbugged wrote:get Craig to cut a THICK plate with center hole that goes over the heater box.........with mounting tang on each side
send him the bars to be shortened and tapped for clevis joints
4 bars
could be nuts, but just a different take on it
yeah heater boxes are cool, recently borrowed a beetle with them in tact and absolutely loved it with the heat on tap!
I think this could be done, but the hole would have to be about 8" x 4" I think to get around the heater box on the correct angle.
I can not see it being possible to make a dog leg around the heater box as it would be such a big deviation. I wish you could see how much these heater boxes are in the way and then you may have a 2nd thought about it. Anyone welcome to come and look if they want.
Also the drivers side isn't as bad as the passengers side, for obvious reasons.
Kev
Flintstones 路
Could a couple of tabs be welded to the very top bar, just inside the clevis joints, and the diagonal bars you have connect from the new welded tabs to the bottom tabs on the forks?
Let us know if there is room to do this as I'm not sure if this would allow you to get around the starter motor.
Cheers
D
STIDUB 路
dont mean to infect your dub with rice but....
perhaps that could work, well similar, that specific example is an S13 camber arm, available in there millions in any colour u want probably, just thought that could work, was doing s13 related stuff for a mates car today 馃榾
Camo 路
STIDUB, bloody good idea and it would be rice if it were on a VW it would be a beautiful piece of engineering 馃槀
I was also thinking of something like this (excuse my photo shop skills or lack of). This is only a thought and I haven't done any measuring and it may be to close to the ground to actually work. The 'X' is to mark where the heater boxes would be. I think this would still stop the horns from flexing or twisting.
Kev
1303Steve 路
Hi Kev
You just need to re engineer the location tabs, I got them to fit OK on David's bugs. Just place the rod where it clears the heaterbox and that's where your tabs need to be
This is the drivers side.
Steve
Aussie Dubbin 路
easy
hellbugged 路
STIDUB wrote:
that's what i was trying to convey in my second idea
Camo 路
Steve,
The first thing I notice is that your upper mount is on the outside of the body, where as mine are on the inside so this would greatly change the angle. And your lower mount looks further forward to mine. My kits is pre-made so I cant move the upper mount and I had the rear lower bracket welded as per supplier guidance. Anyway, gives me other ideas to work on thanks.
Kev
HappyDaze 路
Kev, whatever you do, the important thing to remember is TRIANGLE.馃憤 Any rod should connect at each end to what's known as a 'hard point', and form a triangle.
Email if you want some help.
Cheers, Greg
1303Steve 路
Hi Kev
I think the body on the later bugs is different to your car that why the bar appears to be outside.
I had the greatest issue with the heater box on the 3&4 side, I got it to work OK but then when I went to a sidewinder header without heater boxes it was really close to the bar on the passenger side, so going sans heater may not help.
Steve
Joel 路
Steve, isn't your's an overseas kit? not one of Craig's kit?
Mine is the same as Kev's, even the body area around the shock is the same
By the way Kev, your car is disgustingly clean underneath 馃槀
Aussie Dubbin 路
I thought the idea of coming in from outside the body was a good one, but pay pose rubbing issues. What if you got a fabricating mate around and tried the following:
Cut the existing tab off. Bolt the tab to the arm and locate it insitu where you think it would best lie, closest to the mount triangulation at the top of the shock.
Then bend weld and secure a new mounting point that reaches the arm in its new position.
the idea of the bar is to reduce movement and firm up the loose original rear end. If you can make a substantial mounting point then there shouldn't be too much of an issue.
There are pleant of other bars out there that are welded solid, or follow different paths. I will try and post some photos (and yes i know some of them do not do what craigs kit does. But we are looking for solutions right.)
Aussie Dubbin 路
Craig Torrens 路
Camo, I'm happy to give you a full refund if you're not happy.
Regards
Craig T
1303Steve 路
Joel wrote:Steve, isn't your's an overseas kit? not one of Craig's kit?
Hi
My kit came from Lanner at http://www.vdubengineering.com/ in Canada, I went that way because I was bringing in some other stuff from him and it made the freight cheaper.
My shock tags where not all joined together like Craig's kit, the final angle and position of the tabs is left upto the installer. I just got the cross bar in place and then fiddled around with tags to go down to the forks from the shocks to make it all work.
Steve
Newt 路
I note on CIP that on one unit they sell (looks weaker though) the long down bar is a couple of inches in away from the top mount and is actually mounted off the cross bar.
Is this how they get around the clearance issue?
Newt
Craig Torrens 路
When I was designing my K bar kit I used a 74 beetle with heater boxes...........and it fitted 馃憤
The kits that have the short bars going up to the long cross bar will still flex, so the shock towers are the best location point IMO.
Newt 路
Craig,
No doubt there is les flex in your system.
Newt
vlad01 路
I am glad i am going type 4 and hopefully a Eberspacher heater.
Camo 路
Craig Torrens wrote:Camo, I'm happy to give you a full refund if you're not happy.
Regards
Craig T
Thanks Craig,
I will now except your offer and get a refund.
As you know I have attempted another option, but the mailman has failed a 2nd time to deliver.
Just let me know when you would like me to meet up with you at your work place, if this is suitable.
Regards, Kevin
P.S. I am really sorry that they didn't work out for me, bloody heater boxes 馃槧
Craig Torrens 路
Camo wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:Camo, I'm happy to give you a full refund if you're not happy.
Regards
Craig T
Thanks Craig,
I will now except your offer and get a refund.
As you know I have attempted another option, but the mailman has failed a 2nd time to deliver.
Just let me know when you would like me to meet up with you at your work place, if this is suitable.
Regards, Kevin
P.S. I am really sorry that they didn't work out for me, bloody heater boxes 馃槧
No probs Kevin, happy to refund.
The mailman only failed once, I failed the second time by not getting to the post office......long story.
Anytime during the week at Camellia is fine with me, just let me know what day.
Regards
Craig T
psimitar 路
DON'T bend the bar. Thats a thick ALi or chromoly bar that'll be a shit to bend for one and once bent will introduce fatigue if used in anger.
Looks like 40-50mm clearance needed to get the bar to fit. I know you spent money on the ceramic but is only need be part done. It's only 0.6 or 0.8mm steel for the heater casing so measure, cut, new metal and weld to move the outlet sideways, up, down or two of those directions. It's just ali sprayed on and then baked so a touch up can't be that much 馃お