Warning ** Demerit points for defects in NSW

Hi

My son had a bit of a run in with law a few weeks ago, he was caught drifting in his Skyline. He was finned for speeding and doing a burnout.

The car was also defected for a thumb size hole in the drivers seat and very minor crack in the seat belt buckle, these 2 defects attract a $258 fine each but the killer is the 3 demerit points for each offence.

Ironically we were looking to buy new seats for the car to replace the ripped one leading up to this offence, my son is at uni and works at night in a pub so his funds are limited.

We bought new seats from eBay for $143 a pair delivered to our door, much cheaper than the fine not to mention the loss of points.

The seatbelt was not in anyway dangerous or defective otherwise I wouldn't have let him drive the car without fixing it.

So he paid the fines, about $1250, then last week he got a letter in mail to say that he had accumulated 13 points, bye bye license for 3 months.

If he hadn't been driving recklessly the defect would probably not have been issued.

I've spoken to many of my colleagues in the motor industry, non was aware that defects would attract demerit points.

Steve

List of demerit defect offences

DEFECT NOTICES/LABELS
Use vehicle in breach of minor defect notice $258 1 point
USE VEHICLE NOT COMPLY WITH STANDARD Defective brakes $258 3 points
USE VEHICLE NOT COMPLY WITH STANDARD Defective seating $258

USE VEHICLE NOT COMPLY WITH STANDARD Defective steering $258 3 points

USE VEHICLE NOT COMPLY WITH STANDARD Seatbelt missing/defective $258 3 points

DEFECT NOTICES/LABELS Use vehicle in breach of major defect notice $344 3 points

jeez thats a bit he wouldnt be from the penrith area would he they are very strict out my way

Hi

We live in very quiet leafy Lugarno. He drives a very low red Skyline cop magnate, they got him coming home from work, he also has a bug but he doesn't like leaving it outside work.

Steve

Could you possibly take a photo of the hole in the seat ?

This is the first Ive heard of it as well !!

Hi

The seats are in the bin now, I wonder if he had a seat covers would they have helped. There were no springs or anything poking out, just hole where you could see foam.

Steve

wow!



Thanx for the heads up, news to me also

Had NO idea that you could get Points for defects- scary stuff. My guess is that he was picked on because of the car and the drifting offense. That's a killer, sorry to hear about it

arhh! that's BS.

wtf is wrong with this world. dirty bastards!😬

Hi

On the RTA website it mentions such and such rule in 2007, si it may have been introdeuced then, there was talk of nationalising road rules. I'm pretty sure that they have a similar rule in Qld, a friends son got done up there.

There no question, getting caught drifting brought him to the attention of the cops.

Steve

Doing burnouts and drifting on the way home from work? What does he do on his days off?

We would most likely have the car impounded over here in SA if we got caught doing that.
T54

whats the issue with steering & brakes? you didnt mention anything relating to them....
IF its in decent condition it may of beeen worth arguing, could of just got the copper on a bad day...

last i saw the skyline it didnt look much different to the 10000s of other 'lines & pintaras floating around all over the country

We can't get sideways anymore??? What is the world coming too??
The fines and demerits are not in keeping with the either the incident or the car.
System does seem to be more about $ than it is about saving lives (my 2c: oh and I am in my mid forties; not an 18yo)

a good lesson early on, hopefully attracting the attention of the law for him and others in his situation will teach them a lesson they can carry with them... saving money and grief to themselves and others in the future.
I remember being caught speeding when young and it taught me a lesson that's lasted 30 years

wolfgang54 wrote:I remember being caught speeding when young and it taught me a lesson that's lasted 30 years

or you just haven't been caught since 😂😂😂😂😂

Steve, I am gathering this happened in dry weather. Also you mentioned speed and burnout, was that all part of the drift and was it a deliberate burnout.

I am also surprised to hear about the points re defects. Sound like he just came across and arse hole copper and whom thought he might just show this big fella (your son) who is the bigger man (so he thinks). Sounds like a c#*^ act to me, and I'm sure your son wouldn't have been a smart arse as he his a very nice young fella.

Sorry to hear and I think I would have fought the defects from what you have said.

Kev.

well no license makes life hard , He should think twice about it next time, when he get his license back.
As long as his mummy and daddy aren't runner him around to work etc, now that he doesn't have a license,

ps a seat cover would of been good.
the rules are funny.🤪
If you had mags and wheel nuts missing or broken BAD.
but you could only have two wheel nuts on each wheel under a hub cap GOOD. As you not allowed to removed hub caps to check..

aah reminds me of when I was young and stupid !!!
life was good back in the days of the automatic cordia turbo highway patrol cars a mildly hotted bug could usually outrun em not now these commodores and falcons hammer

Do the crime, do the time.

So he got done on this one.

USE VEHICLE NOT COMPLY WITH STANDARD Seatbelt missing/defective $258 3 points

In Vic, that drift/ burnout offence would be 2 days impound plus towing, impound fees on top of fines.
2nd offence is 3 months impound
3rd offence lose car forever.

Im pretty sure next time its 3 months paying the government to hold your car and neglect it and the time after that they keep it

zjm wrote:aah reminds me of when I was young and stupid !!!
life was good back in the days of the automatic cordia turbo highway patrol cars a mildly hotted bug could usually outrun em not now these commodores and falcons hammer

haha thats what got me, cordia.

pre emissions versions first year or two they were released were a lot more powerful

vassy66T1 wrote:We can't get sideways anymore??? What is the world coming too??
The fines and demerits are not in keeping with the either the incident or the car.
System does seem to be more about $ than it is about saving lives (my 2c: oh and I am in my mid forties; not an 18yo)

I agree. how are young people suppose to learn the ins and outs of their cars and know how to handle them properly in real situations.

its all about making money.

Saw a Cordia get pulled over the other days by the cops, and it wasn't even blowing smoke (must have run out of oil) 🙄. Not sure what he did wrong, but given the traffic we were in it wasn't speeding.

Most likely driving a Cordia will attract attention from the cops by itself. They're now rare enough to have the cops remember who you are, especially if you've got form.

Personally I preferred the look of the Starion (I was in primary school and yet to develop taste). Didn't they used to run Starions in touring cars?

that's just the biggest load of crap I've heard!!!
Seriously, losing points for defects??!!!! and this came about 4 years ago, never heard of it till you mentioned it Steve.
Sounds like the pollies passing this through in the quiet early hours of a morning, so that the public don't get the chance to dispute it.

The timing sounds about right when the clown (can't remember his name) that was running for Bondi (what ever that electorate is) he was pushing to get cars impounding if you were caught doing burnouts and the like. It could have been passed at the same time so no one knew....

Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if I was driving a courtesy car and the cops pulled me over for a RBT (and in case your wondering, yes, I'm a sensible driver) and the cops deemed the car defective, would I have to wear the defective fines as well as the accumulation of points against my license??

Seriously, the next thing this government is going to want from all of us is our blood as the money is obviously not enough!!

Doesn't "Use vehicle in breach of major defect notice" imply that he was driving after being defected??

Wild1 wrote:Doesn't "Use vehicle in breach of major defect notice" imply that he was driving after being defected??

Hi

He only got done for a seat belt and seat, I listed the other offences that attract demerit points out of interest.

It seems inconsistent that "Use vehicle in breach of major defect notice" still only attracts 3 points

He didn't actually do a burnout, he stepped it out going around a corner in the dry, they called it a burnout, he could have gone for dangerous driving which is a worse fine wise.

They could have taken the car we thought he got off OK, lots of fines and loss of points until we got the letter in mail. The speeding under 10 kph luckily.

Flinstones, alot of the grief now is from Michael Daily the ex roads minister, he hates modified cars.

Steve

Having paid for my share of police xmas parties in my 20's I sympathise BUT whether you agree with the law it is still the law and one which we all have to adhere to. Best thing I can think of is keep your nose clean and car up to scratch and you wont be put in this situation. Secondly know the rules, seeing how the internet is not being used as it was intended (ie: porn) the laws are considered in the public domain once posted on a website, so bookmark the RTA site folks is all I can recommend and check in on it now and again.

Conform or Walk , nice choice. Unfair laws will always be circumvented, as they should.🥷
Laws are there to insure public order not to be used as a tool of abuse or control. My2c

Craig S wrote:Saw a Cordia get pulled over the other days by the cops, and it wasn't even blowing smoke (must have run out of oil) 🙄. Not sure what he did wrong, but given the traffic we were in it wasn't speeding.

Most likely driving a Cordia will attract attention from the cops by itself. They're now rare enough to have the cops remember who you are, especially if you've got form.

Personally I preferred the look of the Starion (I was in primary school and yet to develop taste). Didn't they used to run Starions in touring cars?

Starions were quite rare... IMHO
seat belt attached to the door... lol

but the little turbo Cordias were used by NSW Highway patrol
while awaiting a new V8 Commodore to come out..


Also, on seat belts Steve...
the very early seat belt material would NEVER Fray... it was as tough as... not like today's belts...
which fray on the edges very easily....

I believe a seat belt could be frayed on the edge up to 25mm and the belt would still be safe...

its funny how pedal rubbers were needed to get Your car passed for rego... now they can put a flat slippery pedal cover on and its OK..???

LEE

Hi

I want to make it clear I'm not condoning what my son did, I just wanted to let people know about the defect issues attracting demerit points.

I put new Klippen seatbelts in both our bugs and the Skyline, all of them wont release from the fully retracted spot occasionally, mostly if your on a slight slope, so you have to move the car a bit to get them to release.


Steve

i know that 😊

1303Steve wrote:Hi

I want to make it clear I'm not condoning what my son did, I just wanted to let people know about the defect issues attracting demerit points.

I put new Klippen seatbelts in both our bugs and the Skyline, all of them wont release from the fully retracted spot occasionally, mostly if your on a slight slope, so you have to move the car a bit to get them to release.


Steve

I can remember being in a car that did that...

I think they were retractables in a Beetle...

and they must have been fitted at a slight angle???

was a bit of a shock when You couldn't undo them... lol

Lee

I don't think anyone on here would think You are condoning what Your Son did Steve...

Just stating a fact that demerit points are now being Applied to vehicle DEFECTS in NSW....

Lee

Flintstones wrote:that's just the biggest load of crap I've heard!!!
Seriously, losing points for defects??!!!! and this came about 4 years ago, never heard of it till you mentioned it Steve.
Sounds like the pollies passing this through in the quiet early hours of a morning, so that the public don't get the chance to dispute it.

The timing sounds about right when the clown (can't remember his name) that was running for Bondi (what ever that electorate is) he was pushing to get cars impounding if you were caught doing burnouts and the like. It could have been passed at the same time so no one knew....

Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if I was driving a courtesy car and the cops pulled me over for a RBT (and in case your wondering, yes, I'm a sensible driver) and the cops deemed the car defective, would I have to wear the defective fines as well as the accumulation of points against my license??

Seriously, the next thing this government is going to want from all of us is our blood as the money is obviously not enough!!

Basically, We cannot get into a car and drive 20kms or so without breaking a law.... Driving too fast or TOO SLOW...
driving over a white line... speeding up to get thru an amber traffic light before it turns red...

Filling up with fuel with the windows down or the car unlocked... and going inside to pay... is ILLEGAL...

and virtually all accessories unauthorised by the car manufacturer..

LEE

dad's VP commodore seatbelt and even my toyota and brothers toyota have issues with seatbelts not releasing whilst the car is parked on a slope.
must be a norm thing 🙁

bajachris88 wrote:dad's VP commodore seatbelt and even my toyota and brothers toyota have issues with seatbelts not releasing whilst the car is parked on a slope.
must be a norm thing 🙁

Non-retractable for the win!!!! 😀


Smiley 😎

I have to ask, why do you get defected for a hole in the seat fabric? I can't see how that would affect the overall safety of the vehicle.

flipflopsurfer wrote:I have to ask, why do you get defected for a hole in the seat fabric? I can't see how that would affect the overall safety of the vehicle.

Hi

It confounds me why, it wasn't unsafe or anything, maybe if my son hadn't been driving stupid it would not have been an issue. Maybe it was to give him maximum hurt in the wallet.

Steve

i think it has something to do with the integrity of the seat and the possibility of a spring coming through in a crash.
its the same with regos they wont pass with holes in the seat if you follow everything to the letter of the rules.

Hi

He had chance to legally drift the other night at Eastern Creek.

He was driving the red R31Skyline

Steve

What a great and relatively safe way to hone car handling skills. There should be a lot more of it.

Not condoning what your son did but we were all young once. Unfortunately the way the law is today it is based on supporting the crim's and comes down heavy on people that generally try to do the right thing. Just another way to raise revenue from the general public as most of the crims dont have the cash to pay anyway. They go to court, get a slap on the wrist and walk away.

Getting fined for a hole in the seat and minor problem with seatbelt is bu?!>%it 👎👎

Recently, when renewing rego, I needed a 'green slip'. When she checked my driving record, the girl at the insurance office remarked "you don't have any demerit points - you've been a good boy".

My reply was "More like a lucky boy". They are out there to 'get you', so be very careful, and keep the competitive stuff for the track.👍

Cheers, Greg

Would it have still been a defect if you covered the hole in the seat with tape?

probably not but doing it in front of him might of made him look a hell of a lot closer.

Hi

I've been to 3 drift events with him. The level of skill that these guys display is amazing, the conduct of the crowd and competitors is faultless. There are no knuckle draggers at all, they can only drive in straight line I guess.

The only time that I've been to WSID was in 2004 for the VW Nationals drag event, there was agro shown to the VW competitors by some people, even between V8 and rotor guys, I'm not sure if this is still the case

You might notice in the video that there is drift etiquette, when a car in front spins you slow and let him continue in front of you or go around the other car carefully

They are out to get you all right. I was talking to an acquaintance, he got his car sideways in front of some undercover cops, had his car taken and lost his license for a long time and had to front up to court.

When he went to court the preceding case was a drunk driver who caused no injuries but managed to smash into a number of cars before being caught, he got a good behaviour bond, the moral is keep it on the track.

Steve

What do you do when you have no track and your local dogsbodies refuse to allow one?
We have been trying to get something going here in Adelaide for years but the government blocks all attempts.
Meanwhile, the kids are turning themselves into mincemeat on stobie poles.
For those who have never seen a stobie pole, It's what we use for power poles in a state which has no trees.
It's two lenghts of H section steel filled with concrete.
You should see what they do to a car when it hits one at speed!

Lucky Phil wrote:What do you do when you have no track and your local dogsbodies refuse to allow one?
We have been trying to get something going here in Adelaide for years but the government blocks all attempts.
Meanwhile, the kids are turning themselves into mincemeat on stobie poles.
For those who have never seen a stobie pole, It's what we use for power poles in a state which has no trees.
It's two lenghts of H section steel filled with concrete.
You should see what they do to a car when it hits one at speed!

What DO you do? Who knows, but someone MUST DO SOMETHING!

Garry Willmington has done something here in NSW, despite all the opposition that he faced. The Marulan Driver Training Centre is a credit to Garry and his family. This country needs a few more dedicated people like them to get the message across, that people are being needlessly killed on our roads.

The importance of driver education seems to be lost on our governments.😬

They don't make near as much money out of it, so they are not interested.

Hi

While I was at work today to I worked on a NSW police Falcon, it had a massive rip in the seat with a metal bar exposed, apparently the officers guns dig into the seat, I was told most police cars have a similar rip.

Can I issue a citizens defect notice? lol

Steve

1303Steve wrote:Hi

While I was at work today to I worked on a NSW police Falcon, it had a massive rip in the seat with a metal bar exposed, apparently the officers guns dig into the seat, I was told most police cars have a similar rip.

Can I issue a citizens defect notice? lol

Steve

Best of luck with that one, Steve❗

Its true that there are over zealous Police officers out there, but not all of them behave in the manner that some of the posts on this thread are suggesting. It is unfortunate that this young bloke came under notice and paid the price, and I do not know him personally so wont speculate further.

I also agree that there are some laws that do not appear to be based on logic or common sense, however ... I have been a member of the NSWPF for the best part of 15 years and the last 6 of which I have worked in Forensics. One of my core duties is the examination of fatal or serious motor vehicle collisions and the prosecution of driver's deemed to be at fault. It frustrates me that there seems to be a perception that we're all out here writing senseless fines and that irresponsible driving is a victimless crime - I assure you it is not. Try picking bits of body up off the road and hearing the stories of the wife/husband/children etc that the deceased has left behind.

As I said, its unfortunate that fines were issued, and it does not appear fair that we are now copping demerit points for minor defects and/or modifications to vehicles, but not everyone out there in a uniform is driven by a desire to ruin your fun, and in extreme cases the costs for reckless driving are far in excess of a simple fine for the driver at fault.

I guess picking up pieces of someone else's kids would affect my approach to my job too.
And if I thought I coud save a few by throwing the book at them, well, maybe I would.

Lucky Phil wrote:I guess picking up pieces of someone else's kids would affect my approach to my job too.
And if I thought I coud save a few by throwing the book at them, well, maybe I would.

True. I'm only responsible for the actual scene examination - I don't write the tickets. But I had my share of them on the fridge when I was a younger bloke.

Lucky he didn't do that over here, with the hoon laws enforced here you lose your car for 28 days, and it goes up from there to crushing on the third try. Too many kids with too much money driving like idiots in over powered cars. I work with an 18 yr old who went and bought an SS V8 ute three weeks ago. The rear tyres lasted 5 days and he still drives it to work on the braid. You just can't tell these youngsters anything these days. I've been driving my 66 T1 to work for the last 14 years and am on the third set of tyres, the last ones got changed out because of age not wear.