Sorry if this topic has been covered;
Moderators please amend and re-direct if it is the case.
Does anyone know where I can get one of these, locally?
Locally meaning Australia.
Thanks Dubbers
68AutoBug ·
Well,
I can honestly say I've never ever seen those on any car or advertised anywhere...
are You looking at using top and bottom standoffs???
many people say they use a tennis ball at the bottom...
they are a great ide as the lid can still be locked...
Mine can't be locked all summer because of the top standoffs I use...
I presume anyone who can weld etc could make those..
that is the early decklid shown...
wouldn't be hard to make one for a late model either...
[getting the angle etc might take a few tries ?]
cheers
LEE
Doctor ·
I've been thinking about trying to fabricate something similar... Given the time constraints I have at the moment I would love to buy an off the shelf one. So if someone manages to find a distributor or something similar, Let me know too!
DreamWeaver ·
This is all I could find, not in AUS though, USA rather:
Looks like they're made of 6061-billet aluminum too.
They just look simple to install, put on and take off, etc, etc.
Craig Torrens ·
yes I have them, pm if you want one 😉
zayus ·
Craig Torrens wrote:yes I have them, pm if you want one 😉
Craig,
Thought you would have used hood jax?
Didn't you help design & manufacture the hood jax, that Stan sold in 90's?
What happened?
Did you tire of pulling the hood jax off, while being pounded by rain? 🙂
When using the stand off, are there in issues with heat from the exhaust being drawn into the engine bay?
Craig Torrens ·
The bootlid open at the bottom keeps the motor cooler, is more "police/ RTA" friendly, means you dont have to remove it when it rains, and stops crap (leaves, water, rubbish etc) from dropping in your engine bay and causing problems.
And the standoffs I sell are a lot cheaper.......$45.
BeetleJuice ·
Hey Craig
Can you post a pic? I may be in the market for one.
Craig
DreamWeaver ·
C'mon Craig, post a pic 😉
I am most definitely in the market for something that resembles the above
The reaction to this is better then I first thought 😁
Craig Torrens ·
I will try for a pic this weekend................but yes its the same.
Craig S ·
Do they suit all models and engine lids?
Craig Torrens ·
I have it on my 76,74 and my 63...........so yep !
DreamWeaver ·
Pics? 😵
68AutoBug ·
How much?
LEE
VolksVair ·
Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but this lower lid stand off idea is only going to make your air cooled motor get dusty and run hotter, you cant cool a hot engine with HOT air!! want proof? how many of you vw owners who at one time or another have had a leaking rear main oil seal and noticed fine oil spots on the back of ya dubs? and I mean, even as high as your rear screen? the air that runs under your cars doesnt just keep going out the back and away, NO, it gets heated from going past the bottom of a hot engine & tranny and exhaust system, it gets heated from the hot air expelled from your cooling system and then it goes vertical and straight back into this standoff set up. Close ya bloody engine lids and keep your engine compartments AIRTIGHT , as Volkswagen designed them.
VolksVair ·
Have a look at DreamWeavers pic, that green bug doesn't even have an air scoop and the lid is closed shut.
Craig Torrens ·
VolksVair wrote:Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but this lower lid stand off idea is only going to make your air cooled motor get dusty and run hotter, you cant cool a hot engine with HOT air!! want proof? how many of you vw owners who at one time or another have had a leaking rear main oil seal and noticed fine oil spots on the back of ya dubs? and I mean, even as high as your rear screen? the air that runs under your cars doesnt just keep going out the back and away, NO, it gets heated from going past the bottom of a hot engine & tranny and exhaust system, it gets heated from the hot air expelled from your cooling system and then it goes vertical and straight back into this standoff set up. Close ya bloody engine lids and keep your engine compartments AIRTIGHT , as Volkswagen designed them.
Sorry, but what you are saying is not exactly the case.
I have tested various engine lids, with various opening options on the race track, freeway, and city driving and you would be surprised at the temp drops that can be achieved.
The engine open at the bottom will decrease engine oil temps by around 10-15%, and engine bay temps are also dramatically decreased.......FACT !
You only need to look at the evolution of the standard vw engine lid to realise that even VW knew they had a potential cooling problem.
1200cc had a fully sealed enginelid.....ok for 36-40hp
1500cc started to gain air vents, with 2 sections on the engine lid........slight increase in HP
1600cc increased the number of air vents to 4 sections.....another increase in HP
And then the final evolution was the 75/76 bootlid which had all 4 sections and an additional thermostatically controlled opening behind the number place......WHY? beacuse VW was trying to 'chase' extra cooling as they increased the motor's capacity and HP
So what happens when you increase the HP to say 70, 80 or 100+.....well you need to also evolve what you do with the venting.
Think of the principal of the cowling on a radial aircraft motor, the high speed air moving past draws out the hot air, which in turns pulls more cooler air into the engine bay............having the lid open at the bottom does the same.
HappyDaze ·
VolksVair wrote:Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but this lower lid stand off idea is only going to make your air cooled motor get dusty and run hotter, you cant cool a hot engine with HOT air!! want proof? how many of you vw owners who at one time or another have had a leaking rear main oil seal and noticed fine oil spots on the back of ya dubs? and I mean, even as high as your rear screen? the air that runs under your cars doesnt just keep going out the back and away, NO, it gets heated from going past the bottom of a hot engine & tranny and exhaust system, it gets heated from the hot air expelled from your cooling system and then it goes vertical and straight back into this standoff set up. Close ya bloody engine lids and keep your engine compartments AIRTIGHT , as Volkswagen designed them.
You are 100% correct, VolksVair, including the use of the term 'engine lid' - as opposed to 'boot lid'.
Keep the engine lid tightly sealed, and if needed, draw cool air into the engine compartment from a HIGH-PRESSURE area.
hellbugged ·
DreamWeaver wrote:Sorry if this topic has been covered;
Moderators please amend and re-direct if it is the case.
Does anyone know where I can get one of these, locally?
Locally meaning Australia.
Thanks Dubbers
vintage vee dub have same made by vintage speed available
DreamWeaver ·
Cool thanks hellbugged 😉
VolksVair ·
Craig, yes over the years VW did introduce extra intake air vents, but to my understanding, they took advantage from the air that came over the roof and filled the sealed engine compartment with plenty of cold air to be drawn in through the fan, over the cylinders & heads and out via the underside of the VW. I agree with the engine lid stand off at the top as this would act as an air scoop, grabbing cool /fresh air from over the roofline. But to open the bottom is like having an upside down air scoop grabbing hot air & dust. I dont understand how it can improve cooling, maybe I am getting too old, I love all performance modifications, am allways doing shit thats different, your testing seems to prove me wrong and I am allways open to learning something new, but just cant seem to get my head around this, I hope I dont offend you or any one else reading my ramblings, cheers Frank
Craig Torrens ·
I'm not offended 👍..............funny things happen with air pressure at the back of the vw and this all affects cooling. Put a smouldering oily rag (to create smoke) in the engine bay and go for a drive, you will be surprised where the smoke gets pulled out of :tu......and this changes with speed. Its not always about trying to get more air in.....its also about getting the hot air out.
Bizarre ·
I have propped out my number plate and cut out the area below it
I have alos cut out that area where the late 76 flap went - just under the nose / number plate light
I have noticed a decrease in oil temps
I assume a LOT more air is sucked in - I am running dual carbs
Guessing it is similar to propping the bottom
If I am doing a long run in HOT conditions I use the Hoodjax method.
DreamWeaver ·
This is great, thanks for all the feedback. It helps people like me to make an informed decision.
My bug is a daily and is mildly tuned; however I'm always looking for ways to help it run cooler especially on hot days.
beetleboyjeff ·
VolksVair wrote:Craig, yes over the years VW did introduce extra intake air vents, but to my understanding, they took advantage from the air that came over the roof and filled the sealed engine compartment with plenty of cold air to be drawn in through the fan, over the cylinders & heads and out via the underside of the VW. I agree with the engine lid stand off at the top as this would act as an air scoop, grabbing cool /fresh air from over the roofline. But to open the bottom is like having an upside down air scoop grabbing hot air & dust. I dont understand how it can improve cooling, maybe I am getting too old, I love all performance modifications, am allways doing shit thats different, your testing seems to prove me wrong and I am allways open to learning something new, but just cant seem to get my head around this, I hope I dont offend you or any one else reading my ramblings, cheers Frank
Frank, I must admit that at first, I had the same thoughts as you, it would suck heat and dust from underneath.
Basically, it leaves a low pressure area behind the open area - the decklid on the bug, or the venturi on the boat - so as long as the air (on the bug) or the water (in the boat) are replaced from elsewhere, that is where it comes from.
On the bug, the air that is sucked out is replaced by air coming in through the usual engine bay vents. The only way this would not work is if the carbies and the fan sucked out more air than could come in through the usual engine bay vents, but as it appears that propping the bottom of the engine lid works, this is obviously not the case.
Well, it makes sense to me. 🙂
66brm ·
I've been running one of these standoffs for about 2 years now, I changed my induction from a stock single carb to a pair of 40mm IDF's and the engine got hotter than it ever has before, (been running it for 12 years), so I looked into it, the increase in air demands on the vents (66 T1) was causing a vacuum in the engine bay. So I got a bottom mount stand off and straight away, 5 minutes between drives from having and not having, the temps dropped a full 20 deg. This was in the middle of summer here in Perth on a 40 deg day. They work, no ifs or buts. The engine does get a little dusty, but not out of control and nothing that a clean can't fix, no water gets in, just more airflow
Craig Torrens ·
Yep it works well.................its just the usual people that haven't tried it that say it doesn't 👍😉
VolksVair ·
Frank, I must admit that at first, I had the same thoughts as you, it would suck heat and dust from underneath.
Basically, it leaves a low pressure area behind the open area - the decklid on the bug, or the venturi on the boat - so as long as the air (on the bug) or the water (in the boat) are replaced from elsewhere, that is where it comes from.
On the bug, the air that is sucked out is replaced by air coming in through the usual engine bay vents. The only way this would not work is if the carbies and the fan sucked out more air than could come in through the usual engine bay vents, but as it appears that propping the bottom of the engine lid works, this is obviously not the case.
Well, it makes sense to me. 🙂 [/quote]
This scenario confuses me a wee bit, if the lower standoff principal works in such a way that it sucks out the air & is replaced with fresh air from normal vents, wouldn't it be robbing vital air from getting behind the fan housing? air allways takes the easy way out. if you look side on to a beetle, its body shape resembles the basic shape of an aircraft wing ( rounded top with a flat bottom) the principle of the aircraft wing is that the top rounded side speeds up the air flow causing lower air pressure above the wing which in turn sucks the wing up into the low pressure area. (Which is what keeps the plane in the air) so the area under the wing is also going straight up, the beetle should have the same effect with the air going over & under it, but as the robot in lost in space would say "It does not compute"! cheers Frank
chop-chop ·
Would a stand off work on kombi's? Or just put bigger scoops on the side,or both?
DreamWeaver ·
Craig Torrens wrote:I will try for a pic this weekend
DreamWeaver wrote:Pics? 😵
😵😵😵
VolksVair ·
chop-chop wrote:Would a stand off work on kombi's? Or just put bigger scoops on the side,or both?
Hi there, the answer is no, as I did wonder this many moons back, I was running an air cooled flat 6 corvair in my 68 kombi, I had temp senders in both heads, also oil temp sender in the sump, even a temp sender in the tranny. I drove with the lid closed and monitored all the guages, then drove with the engine lid semi open. All guages apart from tranny went higher. but thats the only experiment I did with that
VolksVair ·
I am not going to get into a slanging match here, you do what you think is right for your car, end of story
BeetleJuice ·
DreamWeaver wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:I will try for a pic this weekend
DreamWeaver wrote:Pics? 😵
😵😵😵
Any news or pics?
Craig Torrens ·
sorry, I've been doing evo components 😀
will try and get some done next week 👍
BeetleJuice ·
It's next week...Accordingto my timeline! 😉
Craig Torrens ·
I wont be making them now..........not worth the time and effort for little return. 😉