high speed handling

Is it just mine or are all fastbacks prone to wandering when they get over 90kph?

just yours 😂

There is something the matter if its doing that
GTMac has a WRX in his and it does WAY more that that (off road use only 🙅 ) and he hasent done THAT much to the suspension
Torsion bar upgrade, KYB Gas and decent rubber

The Type 3 front ends are prone to wandering when the bushes in the front beam wear. These control side-to-side motion of the torsion bars. They can be adjusted to take the slack out of them.

Thanks waveman - constructive replies are good.

waveman1500 wrote:The Type 3 front ends are prone to wandering when the bushes in the front beam wear. These control side-to-side motion of the torsion bars. They can be adjusted to take the slack out of them.

mmm? not really. only the top control arm can be adjusted and its more of a preload not slack adjustment.

to replace the bearing in the beam need special tools from VW to remove the Bakelite bushings and bearings (extremely risky as they are NOT available and break easy) and the correct bearing diameter as there were a few different sizes. And to make it worse they are NOS only and typically 50-75 each.

There is a thread on the samba about this. only a small hand full of people have successfully done this.

Wonder at high speed indicates a problem as this is not normal.

check for slack in the tie rod ends first as these wear out way way before the other components, then check pitman arm and steering box shaft slack, then the ball joints,(not typically worn even for the age) last would be of course the control arm bearings and shafts.

vlad01 wrote:

waveman1500 wrote:The Type 3 front ends are prone to wandering when the bushes in the front beam wear. These control side-to-side motion of the torsion bars. They can be adjusted to take the slack out of them.

mmm? not really. only the top control arm can be adjusted and its more of a preload not slack adjustment.


WAnder at high speed indicates a problem as this is not normal.

Definetly NOT preloaded. Top swaybar is adjusted on the right hand side to provide a slight clearance between upper trailing arm and the thrust face on the beam. If the adjusting screw is tightened to preload the swaybar (swaybar placed under tension under static load) the suspension won't freely move and will cause more handling problems.

Rusty

yes thats to preload the the arm with 7.5ft-lb

anything that you tension in any amount especially bearings is preloading in my books. I don't know what analogy you use? but that definitely preloading.

Does a Type 3 have a steering damper?

A small amount of toe-in on alignment of 1-2mm is known to remove wander tendencies if they are present.

A toe-in alignment would only cost $25, and any wheel align place can do this,, in fact you can actually do it at home if you are handy.

yes they do have a steering damper.

In our experience type 3's should generally be more stable at all speeds than beetles. Type thres should start to feel "right" above 90kph, when beetles (nippier at low speeds) may start to feel beyond their comfort zone. If there is a side wind, Fastbacks can feel unhappy however. Is it really wandering, or vagueness, or a shimmy?
Steering damper 'issues' should be most noticable at ~80kph, and may be more severe than on a bug.

yeah type 3 are really stable if the suspension is in perfect working order. Even speeds up to 90 MPH I have felt safe as safe can be.

The brakes at that speed is another story 😂

B-I (in fact a F/B) was consistently "solid" feeling to 100mph, when no X-wind. (Many years ago c 2L. In right conditions would have felt OK to go faster.) They cut through the air like a beetle... doesn't.

[Yes Vlad. The much bigger "early type 4" brakes (callipers & pads) on the '72 & '73 should have been introduced earlier. Up to '71 brakes aren't quite up with the rest of the package.] It seems acemarc has a '73 so he will feel safer at high speeds now... Oh-oh...

vlad01 wrote:yes thats to preload the the arm with 7.5ft-lb

anything that you tension in any amount especially bearings is preloading in my books. I don't know what analogy you use? but that definitely preloading.

Straight from the manual, the setting up of the swaybar on a Type 3 has the swaybar balljoints disconnected both sides. The adjusting screw is tightened just enough to allow the arms to drop under their own weight. As the thrust faces are that of a plain, not needle thrust, there can be no preload. Preloading is used with anti friction (rolling) bearings. This is not the case here. Disconnecting the balljoints would be the method used in a rebuild. In running repair practice, the balljoints aren't generally disconnected so care must be taken not to put the swaybar under tension by tightening the axial adjusting set screw too tightly. There must be a very small amount of axial free play to allow the grease lubricant to work. These are engineering facts, not some personal analogy I'm plucking out of the air.

Rusty

My manual says to the same to disconnect the upper ball joints, then remove the locking plate on the right side, loosen the adjusting screw, then torque it to 7.5ft-lb to preload the upper arms against the thrust face, then check it drops under its own weight in a controlled speed, if good lock the plate again.

simple really. I don't even know why you are arguing about the use of the word preload? It commonly used between engineers, mechanics and type 3 enthusiast in a broad sense regarding this situation.

The use of preload here gives the wrong message to the backyard mechanic when taking up slack in a swaybar on a Type 3. Most haven't even got a torque wrench! I do happen to know about the word "preload" as well as "endfloat" as used by engineers as I have been in the mechanical engineering sceene for many years and do know just a tad on the subject. Even though I haven't had a Type 3 for many years I have worked on them quite a lot since 1967 with qualified VW mechanics to present day.

If we tighten to exclude the clearance for lubrication we have metal to metal contact resulting in wear.

End of my involvement on the subject.

Rusty

ok sorry my bad its 7ft-lb not 7.5ft-lb.

I feel like such and idiot, I can't tell people to torque it 0.5 pound more, that will make it too tight.😵‍💫

Maybe acemarc used the term "wondering" in regard to it being a rear engined car and having no weight over the front wheels. Or is it just me who can "feel the road" a great deal more than in front engined cars.

At high speed I have no problem unless the wheels are out of balance, air pressure off etc.. My square is in the zone at 70-90 and happy at 100, the rev limiter wont let me go much faster though I think it could handle it.

But yeah, umm, stopping!

rev limiter?...........??

vlad01 wrote:rev limiter?...........??

Yeah???.... Wonder what her name is???