supercharger

Can anyone tell me if they have used an AMR 300 or 500 and whether they are any good on a 1916 engine?
Thanks

God no, they come off a 600cc 3 cylinder Subaru, so even a 1200 VW is too big let alone a 1916.

A fellow forum member had one on a 1500 that grenaded cos it had to be so overdriven for an engine that size.

for a 1916 you would want a toyota SC14, an SC12 would be on it's limits with an engine that big.

Joel wrote:God no, they come off a 600cc 3 cylinder Subaru, so even a 1200 VW is too big let alone a 1916.

A fellow forum member had one on a 1500 that grenaded cos it had to be so overdriven for an engine that size.

for a 1916 you would want a toyota SC14, an SC12 would be on it's limits with an engine that big.

Thanks Joel, I had seen some of them on ebay that mentioned use on a SR20DET engine which was used in silvias so I thought they might be big enough. Am looking at SC14s as well.

An Eaton setup might be cheaper too from the new mini's, the old toyota superchargers are getting harder to find. just throwing ideas out there.

Guys sc12 on a 1916 works sweet! I've done it.
They can happily spin at 9000rpm @1.2litred per rev that's heaps!

Joel wrote:A fellow forum member had one on a 1500 that grenaded cos it had to be so overdriven for an engine that size.

That'd be me 😊

And Eleanor





Don't do it!!

As Joel has suggested You'd want an SC12 or SC14.

See here - http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=65678&page=1#pid617375


Smiley 😎

You do the maths. A 1916 per two revs (4 stroke) That is about 950cc per rev.

The SC12 is 1200cc per rev, so overdriven by 1.5 will give 1800cc per engine rev.

That will give about 6psi. Nice reliable torque.

SC12 will handle 14psi no worries but in blow through when pumping air only.

draw through with the fuel mix going through is fine upto about 10psi was the highest I had mine.
Beyond that the heat generated with a fuel mix in them spells disaster for the flourine coating on the lobes.

been there done that twice

Sooo can you guuys tell me whether I can fit an SC14 onto a type 1 or would I be better using a porche style cooling setup. Also if I used that how is the oil cooler fitted up?

go with the sc12 if you are doing a1600 up to a 1776 really easy to fit i think joel has a link to the one he fitted it is a really simple job just needs patience and there is a lo tot people on the forum that can guide you along the path to true blown happynes myself i would help if asked
happy blowing

Problem is greedy I have been cpollecting for a 1916 and think I would need an SC14 although I am only looking at a max of 8PSI boost. I have read Jols thread a couple of times now and from what I read there are 2 issues.
1. An SC14 might be more difficult to fit due to added length which is why I am thinking of a porsche style fan shroud and am wondering how the oil cooler is fitted.
2. Boost is addictive and I may not be happy with just 8PSI.

An SC14 could work on a Porsche shroud setup with some creative mounting but type1 upright cooling just doesnt have the room

I started mocking up one on an upright motor with twin blow through carbs but the extra length is just too much, the pulleys are way to far out of alignment.

Simple fix Baghall.

Run the Porsche fanhousing, and an SC12 either side with twin carbs! Dual blowers!!!
You have a Baja so there's plenty of room!

This is something I always thought about.


Smiley 😎

Now, now smiley all my friends already think I'm mad driving a baja and considering blowing it. If I go twin blowers they'd try to lock me up.

If one is good, surely two has to be better 😂

Cost brother cost. Already spending more than I planned. But maybe, it would certainly appel to my sense of symetry. Let me check on ebay.

matberry wrote:If one is good, surely two has to be better 😂

Or 4 maybe?

You might start to run into problems with space then.

I think a single SC12 would probably suit a mild 1916 no worries. As long as you don't have a top end screamer (which is not exactly what you want in a Baja anyway) you should have any dramas. Will give you plenty of low down torque and grunt, for crawling up hills and embarrassing 4WDs (yuck) 😀
I've always wanted to put a supercharger onto my Baja, but because I drive her everyday to work and do about 700+ kms a week the reliability issue starts to come into it. Plus if I had that much power I'd definitely go out and break the car every weekend 😂 😂


Smiley 😎

Smiley wrote:

matberry wrote:If one is good, surely two has to be better 😂

Or 4 maybe?

You might start to run into problems with space then.

I think a single SC12 would probably suit a mild 1916 no worries. As long as you don't have a top end screamer (which is not exactly what you want in a Baja anyway) you should have any dramas. Will give you plenty of low down torque and grunt, for crawling up hills and embarrassing 4WDs (yuck) 😀
I've always wanted to put a supercharger onto my Baja, but because I drive her everyday to work and do about 700+ kms a week the reliability issue starts to come into it. Plus if I had that much power I'd definitely go out and break the car every weekend 😂 😂


Smiley 😎

Come on smiley, you can do it you know you want to🤘. Mine is a daily driver but with a low boost say max 8psi reliability shouldn't be too much of an issue, I hope. Plus I was told by a long time vw owner you should always have a spare engine ready to go in for when the original breaks down.🤪

PS can't find any SC12s for sale on ebay atm.

baghall wrote:Come on smiley, you can do it you know you want to🤘. Mine is a daily driver but with a low boost say max 8psi reliability shouldn't be too much of an issue, I hope. Plus I was told by a long time vw owner you should always have a spare engine ready to go in for when the original breaks down.🤪

PS can't find any SC12s for sale on ebay atm.

Oh ok then, you've talked me into it. Might be a very slow project over the next 10 years. I'll start collecting bits. I already have one SC12 around here somewhere, just have to find another 😀
Might as well start with a Type 4 engine too. I've got one of them lying around somewhere too.


Smiley 😎

smiley....for a lad of your age you have more stuff just "laying" around that people 3 times ur age... least ur local to me and i can get stuff 😂😂

steff.................

DubCrazy wrote:smiley....for a lad of your age you have more stuff just "laying" around that people 3 times ur age... least ur local to me and i can get stuff 😂😂

steff.................

Can't wait till I get my shed finished.

Then I'll be able to put the important stuff inside, and start stock piling more outside, maybe a few lean-tos off the side 😀
It will never end.


Smiley 😎

Smiley; I'll see your SC12 and raise you an SC14. There are quite a few of these for sale atm on ebay.
I will probably be buying one of these this week.

baghall wrote:Smiley; I'll see your SC12 and raise you an SC14. There are quite a few of these for sale atm on ebay.
I will probably be buying one of these this week.

Wow!

You're not wrong. I just did a quick search and came up with at least half a dozen SC14s. But no SC12s.

Have you already got one SC14?


Smiley 😎

12s have always been the hardest to get, I got most of mine through Toyota Forums.

although 14s are starting to get decent money too, I nearly died when I saw what the last one I sold on Ebay went for 🤪

Smiley wrote:Wow!

You're not wrong. I just did a quick search and came up with at least half a dozen SC14s. But no SC12s.

Have you already got one SC14?


Smiley 😎

No not yet but am probably watching all the ones you found on your search. I think I actually prefer the SC14 for its volume, especialy since it will eventually end up on a 1916 (when I finally build it). I might just end up like Joel and drive a blown 1600tp for a while instead😂

An sc12 sold last week for 165.
I bought a spare last week for 210 on ebay

what carb plans you got at the moment?

Aahh, so your the buggar that beat me aintgotitmusthaveit.
Chris, I have got hold of a deloorto sidedraft from aintgotitmusthaveit, for the build. When i'm ready. Currently only looking at a single carb.

By the way guys anyone tell me about fitting up a porsche style cooling shroud. Particularly where the oil cooler goes.

baghall wrote:By the way guys anyone tell me about fitting up a porsche style cooling shroud. Particularly where the oil cooler goes.

If your talking type one, you lose the stock cooler.

baghall wrote:Aahh, so your the buggar that beat me aintgotitmusthaveit.
Chris, I have got hold of a deloorto sidedraft from aintgotitmusthaveit, for the build. When i'm ready. Currently only looking at a single carb.

By the way guys anyone tell me about fitting up a porsche style cooling shroud. Particularly where the oil cooler goes.

Ha! Sorry bud. Just thought I might need a spare....
Yep you lose the oil cooler as Matt suggested.
If you have access to a lathe and end mill i can give you a sketch of what I built for mine.

aintgotitmusthaveit wrote:

baghall wrote:Aahh, so your the buggar that beat me aintgotitmusthaveit.
Chris, I have got hold of a deloorto sidedraft from aintgotitmusthaveit, for the build. When i'm ready. Currently only looking at a single carb.

By the way guys anyone tell me about fitting up a porsche style cooling shroud. Particularly where the oil cooler goes.

Ha! Sorry bud. Just thought I might need a spare....
Yep you lose the oil cooler as Matt suggested.
If you have access to a lathe and end mill i can give you a sketch of what I built for mine.

Yeah I do have access. That would be very helpfull. Thanks

I knew I would lose stock cooler but where does the cooler go instead? I was hoping it is possible to mount it behind the fan so it gets all the air flow all the time.

There is ways to keep the stock cooler on a type1 with a Porsche shroud, just hardly anyone bothers and goes external.

Its lays down flat exactly like a type3 one but faces the other way across the case so it's straight behind the fan.

Dunno how well it woulda worked though, Porsche shroud air flow is ordinary on a VW engine at the best of times without deflecting it further from 2 and 4 with an oil cooler.

Joel wrote:Porsche shroud air flow is ordinary on a VW engine at the best of times

This doesn't sound good. Looks like it might need some creative thinking. I don't want overheating problems with boosting.

Joel wrote:Porsche shroud air flow is ordinary on a VW engine at the best of times

What about on a Type 4 motor?


Smiley 😎

Guess I should have worded that better, it's not all Porsche shrouds, but the vast majority lack the internal vanes that real Porsche ones do, so all the air is thrown at #1 and #3 and very little gets to the crank pulley sides of #2 and #4 barrels and same deal with the heads.

Back in the late 90s a mate in bought a 72 Sbug fitted with a 2L type4 and an early fibreglass Porsche shrouds with no vanes inside and it toasted several exhaust valves and 1 seat on #4 and 2.

Admittedly it was right up North QLD were it did get toasty summer but none the less a Porsche fan should cope better than a stock VW fan.

Although Rabys testing did find them performing below most upright type1 setups.

Smiley wrote:

Joel wrote:Porsche shroud air flow is ordinary on a VW engine at the best of times

What about on a Type 4 motor?


Smiley 😎

sounds like a good idea to me.

+1 on the porsche shrouds. they are pretty appalling by any standard.

So no one would recommend running a Porsche shroud?
What about all the people running them on Type 4s converted to uprights? Sorry for the the thread hijack Baghall, I'm just interested what people have to say on this.


Smiley 😎

It's just the lack of the vanes, and they are on the alternator, other than that, build the engine right and no problem!!

Joel, how many std type IV's have had dropped valves, I'd say it's due to other factors more than the Porsche fan.

Don't mind the hijack smiley as am interested myself, cause I may have to try and fit an sc14 onto a type 1. So Mat is what you are saying is if there were more vanes say, on the fan it is possible to get a porsche shroud working well?

The extra vanes are a part that gets forgotten, much like the thermostat flaps in an upright fan housing. The aftermarket kits just don't have them.

matberry wrote:The extra vanes are a part that gets forgotten, much like the thermostat flaps in an upright fan housing. The aftermarket kits just don't have them.

Matt, I noticed in one of the AVWM, you sell an aftermarket kit does it have the vanes or would I need to design some for it. Also what would your price be for it?

No sorry Bags, no ad from me, unless it was from last century 🤓🤓😂😂

I have used e few different kits, type 1 and type 4, I source them for the individual engine though.
I am presently looking for a type 1 kit if you hear of any.

I have an original set of Porsche vanes for my own use, had them for a while and yet to get inside my fan housing 😂, they are some sort of plastic, not sure if they could get copied/moulded? May still be available through Porsche.

matberry wrote:No sorry Bags, no ad from me, unless it was from last century 🤓🤓😂😂

I have used e few different kits, type 1 and type 4, I source them for the individual engine though.
I am presently looking for a type 1 kit if you hear of any.

I have an original set of Porsche vanes for my own use, had them for a while and yet to get inside my fan housing 😂, they are some sort of plastic, not sure if they could get copied/moulded? May still be available through Porsche.

Yeah sorry. I realised quite a bit later it was not your add. any chance you could either pm or load up some photos for me to look at. If they are plastic it would probably be possible to make carbon fibre copies using vaccum moulding. Thanks for the info by the way.

I'll get a pic for you. Be hard to do in carbon in my expierence.

Hey smiley just had a thought that if an amr500 is too small on it's own then maybe I could go for 2 of them with fuel injection setup.

Thanks Matt. Have a mate who I have done some work with. If it can be done he has the skills and knowledge. He does a lot of work for race teams with carbon, both body and engine. He's actually gonna help me do some carbon work on the rear fibreglass and am thinking about trying to do some of the tinware as well. Maybe.

baghall wrote:Hey smiley just had a thought that if an amr500 is too small on it's own then maybe I could go for 2 of them with fuel injection setup.

Good idea. But I just bought another SC12 off eBay! Now I have two! Just need to wait a few years now so I can afford the rest of the engine 😂😂😂😂


Smiley 😎

Hey Smiley, you still there. Was wondering if you know what the cfm is on an amr 500, since you had one on your car? Also what size pulleys were you running and what boost were you getting?

They're 500cc hence the name so fair bit less than 1200cc SC12.

baghall wrote:Hey Smiley, you still there. Was wondering if you know what the cfm is on an amr 500, since you had one on your car? Also what size pulleys were you running and what boost were you getting?

I really have no idea.

The blower was all set up on it when I bought it.
That was my first car and my first VW. I really didn't know much about anything back then, how's things change 🤪

The guy who set it up believed that it was making in the area of 5-6psi. But it had no boost gauge so I can't confirm this.

I really wouldn't bother with that blower IMHO. Unless you were putting 2 of them on a 1200 engine.

I still have the blower and pulleys here. If you really really want to know I can dig them out and measure them. But I have to find them first 😂😂😂


Smiley 😎

No worries Smiley I'm sure I can get the info somewhere else, but look at at my build thread for latest update.

baghall wrote:No worries Smiley I'm sure I can get the info somewhere else, but look at at my build thread for latest update.

I saw. Very nice. I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes (obviously like a bat out of hell)

What size engine are you planning on building?


Smiley 😎

Here's the pic's of the set of vanes I have, they are a hard grey plastic. Sorry it took so long

Hey Matt

Where do they bolt down to on the engine and which way up are they oriented?


Smiley 😎

It bolts to the back of the Porsche Fan, its on the inside of the fan housing

Yep, 11CAB's got it, they bolt to th back of the alternator on the face that it's sittting on.

baghall wrote:Don't mind the hijack smiley as am interested myself, cause I may have to try and fit an sc14 onto a type 1.

Its what i have in the pipe line too.

I got dual turbo prep carbs to go on either side. As for supercharger mounting, from what i can see there is nowhere else but where Joel mounted his SC12.

The problem of the massive protrustion back (due to size, approx 120mm from memory) is just something i personally will have to over come.

The plan is a welded frame / housing that does two things:

1: house an idler shaft that displaces the torque back in line with the sc14 supercharger.

&

2: support the weight/load of the supercharger.

Mounting points:

- Threads on gen/alt stand, fuel pump studs, case studs, distributor hold down bolt, and i have a type 3 lower cradle bolt hole / thread (although below crank pulley).

Bitch Factor for Fabrication: (out of 10)

12.5

But if it were made, then it would be an awesome result, and i plan to fab it up. I will need to take it to a machine shop though to machine out some journals for some sealed bearings for the idler shaft for interference fit. [Matt are you able to do this?]

otherwise some existing idler arms (if out there) could be found in a wrecking yard, looking at mixed alternator setups etc. Even if a distributor shaft and bearing housing could be used, if the distributor shaft was wide enough to take the torque load, maybe truck ones have beefier?


Its alot of work, but the result would last a life time. I just wish i had a TIG for aluminium or alloy. Unfortunately i'm going to have to fab it with a MIG & arc welder, which means i'm only limited to steel. I'm going to have to be VERY cautious about weight.

btw, if anyone knows of any objects or machine components that consist of a decent torque shaft and two radial loaded bearings with hopefully steel housings let me know 🙂.

Chris.

matberry wrote:Here's the pic's of the set of vanes I have, they are a hard grey plastic. Sorry it took so long

Yeah I thought you had forgotten or not bothered. Thanks.
I think it would be doable but would have to be made in a couple of components and then stuck together. Just noticed that they are made that way already. Need glasses think I.
Am I right in assuming that the vanes are on the bottom when mounted and direct the air to the rear of the engine (pulley end).

I had found it easiest using my phone to post pics, but it died recently and so took a while to get the camera happening.....

The vanes go to the top and sweep to the left, direcing air to #3.

Ok Thanks Matt. I certainly had that wrong didn't I.🙁

baghall wrote:Ok Thanks Matt. I certainly had that wrong didn't I.🙁

😂🤓🤪🙅🤘😬😂

Some fan housings may not allow them to fit, or possibly cut them down to fit.

OK, so in summary a porsche fan housing can work but it needs to have the cooling fins to direct air flow onto cylinder number 3. Also needs to be a good quality in order to fit the cooling fins properly.

Ok anyone got a high qulaity porsche cooling shroud i could borrow to make a mould off? 😀😀

i believe that richard has a mould of the shroud your after

barls wrote:i believe that richard has a mould of the shroud your after

Sorry but who would this Richard be.

Richard Holzl, Vee Force. I'll be speaking to him, see what he's got, I need a type 1 Porsche fan kit too.