Aussieveedubbers · General Chit Chat

AUST ARMY VW 240v AC generator in Viet Nam in 1971

https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/threads/91143/aust-army-vw-240v-ac-generator-in-viet-nam-in-1971

annosL ·

coupla pics of a vw generator, Viet Nam 1971

vw54 ·

yes they worked well

thats NOT you behind the engine is it ???

annosL ·

Nah not me but I took the pic though, the guy there was a Sig., as they were responsible for setting up power and wiring for the Command Post in FireSupportBases, both pics are of the same genny but at two different locations, pretty quiet gensets for their vintage and even under load worked well even in monsoonal humidity

vw54 ·

from memory they only reved to 2k and had the govenor fitted which made them rev under load

volumex ·



annosL ·

Typical Army manual Volumex, thanks for showing, I see Dunlite made 'em, aren't they Aussie?
Were you in RAEME?

68AutoBug ·

vw54 wrote:from memory they only reved to 2k and had the governor fitted which made them rev under load


similar to VICTA 4 STROKE lawnmowers... lol

actually... there wouldn't be any carbon tax on one of those generators if You got one now... lol
240v AC 50 Hertz or cycles per second..

GREAT....

vlad01 ·

I would of thought 3000rpm would equal 50Hz? as 3000rpm = 50rps

volumex ·

Last photo shows they were governed at 3000 rpm.

I'm not ex-army - I just bought the generator off my boss who picked it up at a disposal auction, and it came with plenty of paperwork including the manual. I've been meaning to get it running, but I still need to get a round tuit.

annosL ·

My sheds full of round tuits!

vlad01 ·

lol yeah me too including the shed itself 🙅

Joel ·

Volumex, just wondering is it a single port or twin being 73?
most industrial engines I've seen were all single port.

Just noticed the 4thou/0.10mm clearance and the 0.4mm plug gap.

4 thou was ok for twin ports but singles should really be abit looser than that about 6 thou/0.15mm,

Also pretty small plug gap, I know they under less load than a car but still I've always run 0.6mm on a stock application.

volumex ·

I'll have a look tonight. From the records, the genset had 3 new motors from 82 to 2000. It first entered service in 1968, but I have no paperwork until 1982 - it might have been through heaps more.

seagull ·

That was the year I was born.

any chance you would of known the following Perth Guys they were in the same platoon ( I guess they would of been 19 or 20 years of age )

John fisher ( now passed away )
Adriano Giacomel ( Jaco )

annosL ·

Nah sorry Seagull, I served with infantry 3RAR but can,t place names to sig.platoon, if you know their unit or who they were attached with I could trace maybe

mackaymanx ·

Here are some more pictures of this type of generator, pick this up today.

68AutoBug ·

looks to be a 1200 single port engine

does it have a generator??

or is it just a shaft with fan on the end...??

LEE

mackaymanx ·

This is a fully operational unit, it was running and working about five hours ago.

The logbook has the same numbers as the manual above, so single port 1600(Crank start only)

h ·

great piece of history
thanks for sharing 👍

annosL ·

Looks in good nick, keep it goin!

MickH ·

Give it to me biatzsch😢

Special Air Service ·

what sort of $$$ does something like this go for?

whatnow ·

annosL wrote:Nah sorry Seagull, I served with infantry 3RAR but can,t place names to sig.platoon, if you know their unit or who they were attached with I could trace maybe
thankyou and welcome home.

Lucky Phil ·

I remember working on one of these as an apprentice in the RAAF in about '83.
They were called a "Generator, portable, 2man.
I would like to see 2 guys trying to carry one!

RISKY4LIFE ·

Special Air Service wrote:what sort of $$$ does something like this go for?
i was at an auction about 6 years ago where there was about 80 for sale and best one (very nice ) went for a little over 1K
and the rest where 550- 800 ish
in rows of ten and the cheapest row 8 sold for $375 each

Willie ·

I worked on these when I was a mechanic in RAEME - a few years back now....
They were 1600 single port, with a magneto. As long as the oil was changed regularly and were not operated in confined spaces, they gave great service.

I got one from a surplus auction many moons ago. Put a distributor in, changed manifold and carby (I had a home made manifold with a side draught weber set-up) and put it in a '69 lowlight Kombi I had. The kombi was sold about 2 years later with the motor still going strong.

Uber Kafer ·

got several questions regarding the model pictured above.

Does anyone know what oil can be used in the governor. It states that SAE 10 oil is required, so is there a product thats readily available that suits that requirement.?
Anyone have a part number etc for the replaceable air cleaner paper element?
What went in the box in the compartment below the control panel?
Has anyone got a full electrical schematic, operating specs etc for the gen-set?
Anyone got any parts or literature not needed and they want to go to a good home, I just bought one in top condition and want to keep it that way.

thanks.

mackaymanx ·

What went in the box in the compartment below the control panel?

The Log Book

JEP1957 ·

Hi
Just wondering if anyone has a manual for 10kva army vw generator as i have a problem with my generator, it generates 300volts and i cannot adjust it down. Any healp greatly appreciated. Thanks John

subimanx ·

Slow the engine RPM. Does it generate that much under load ???? Does the final trim pot work??? check the voltage with a multimeter so you dont rely on just the 30+ year old guage. ALSO if anyone has a manual i will happilly pay for it or a copy........

volumex ·

I'll make a pdf copy of my manual and post it up soon.

subimanx ·

That would be great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😎👍

bajachris88 ·

Uber Kafer wrote:Does anyone know what oil can be used in the governor. It states that SAE 10 oil is required, so is there a product thats readily available that suits that requirement.?


thanks.
Here's some help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

"The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating their "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The document SAE J300 defines the viscometrics related to these grades."

I thought i saw it in my tribology notes, but that was converting ISO# oils to SAE weights based on predicted operating temperatures. Google pulled through though. So from that paragraph, a 10W oil (single grade) should suffice.

JEP1957 ·

Have checked RPM and it is at 3000 which is specified, voltage does not drop under load and the trim pot does not work so i need a manual to check the wiring diagram and get the relevant ohms resistance for a new trim pot. Thanks for the info. Volumex posted a picture of the manual that he has on 20th June 2011 but haven't been able to contact him.

JEP1957 ·

Would be great to get the manual.😉

Uber Kafer ·

subimanx wrote:Slow the engine RPM. ..
to reduce an overvoltage problem on an alternator? dont think so. The governor needs to maintain nominal output volts at 50Hz. Only reduce the speed if its an over-frequency problem.

But yes, it would be great to get a copy of the manual in to the public domain. And lets not turn this into a debate about copyright ......

Uber Kafer ·

bajachris88 wrote:
Uber Kafer wrote:Does anyone know what oil can be used in the governor. It states that SAE 10 oil is required, so is there a product thats readily available that suits that requirement.?


thanks.
Here's some help:........, a 10W oil (single grade) should suffice.
thanks, but I was onto that already.

So does anyone know of a product readily available thats SAE10 / 10W? I suspect that pneumatic tool lubricant might fit the bill but I cant confirm the oil weight.

JEP1957 ·

Fuchs make a 10w oil it is Titan Hytrans 10w
A special purpose fluid designed for a range of mobile equipment.
www.fuchs.com.au

ph fuchs techniical 1800333674

Uber Kafer ·

thats great news, a big help. thanks. I will see if I can get me some.

barls ·

But yes, it would be great to get a copy of the manual in to the public domain. And lets not turn this into a debate about copyright ......
might actually be more an issue of security classification rather than copyright.
depends on what level its been classified as. i know the equipment i use to work on was all secret and above and that was radios, comms gear and weapon systems.

hopefully someone doesnt get in trouble for posting it if it happens.

subimanx ·

Uber Kafer wrote:
subimanx wrote:Slow the engine RPM. ..
to reduce an overvoltage problem on an alternator? dont think so. The governor needs to maintain nominal output volts at 50Hz. Only reduce the speed if its an over-frequency problem.

But yes, it would be great to get a copy of the manual in to the public domain. And lets not turn this into a debate about copyright ......
We are trying to determin if it is actually an overvoltage problem and there is definetly nothing wrong with checking the speed at load is actually what its supposed to be,its the first thing in the diagnostic you would check. And I'm sure you actually meant to type "overvoltage from the altenator" Barls...there is no security problems for release of the manuals etc....if anyone is afraid to copy etc send them to me and I'll do it.😎

Uber Kafer ·

Ok, sort of lost me there with your logic, but as long as we agree that the governor's job is to maintain the speed at 3000 rpm (=50Hz on the frequency meter) and the regulator's job is to maintain the volts regardless of load current, provided its within the nominated load rating, and at a reasonable power factor.
So if the governor is doing its job maintaining the right speed, and apparently it is, and the volts are too high, I agree that regulation is the area to concentrate on. Anyway, after 20 years commissioning, testing maintaining, operating, (and sometimes breaking), alternators with a lot more zeros in the kVA rating, thats my 2 bobs worth.

JEP1957, As for the regulator control pot, assuming its the one labelled 'RAISE VOLTS' is there a part number marked on the body of the pot or any other markings? Equipment built to mil spec was always fairly robustly identified so it should have something still legible. I know its the most likely point of failure but you should be able to test it. But regardless, we still need the schematic in the public domain. Make fault finding a lot easier.

subimanx ·

Sorry i lost you with "my logic" 🤓...the first place to start is with engine speed,which we agree is 3000rpm.He has checked that and it is 3000rpm. If you increase the engine speed the Hz will increase,as will the Volts generated.If you LOWER the engine speed the opposite will occur...still with me? At idle speed the volts/Hz will be lower (mine is around 90 Volts at idle) as the speed is increased the volts etc also increase (u still with me?) My suggestion,which is the first thing you do for diagnostics is to ensure engine speed is correct. If the pot doesnt control the final trim,then it is most likely at fault.
I'll see if i can get part numbers.

MickH ·

subimanx wrote:I'll see if i can get part numbers.
RYCO A256 for the air filter...

Uber Kafer ·

subimanx wrote:If you increase the engine speed the Hz will increase,as will the Volts generated.
as for engine speed = alternator speed = Hz, then thats a no brainer for some of us.
But as for increased engine speed = increased volts, well thats a pretty basic/poor voltage regulator, and would have been a bit unstable on varying load. A decent regulator shouldnt really be affected by a couple of % rpm variation around 50Hz. I assumed it to regulate better that that, hence my earlier comment.
Anyway, thats what you have found on yours and I still havent run mine yet. Wait & see.

Uber Kafer ·

MickH wrote:RYCO A256 for the air filter...
great, thanks for that.

cheers.

MickH ·

So you're suggesting that at idle mine should be 240 volts???? LOL😂 Wrong....

tar76 ·

One thing i like to say to all vets "Thank you" (volumex)
.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but whenever i meet a vet i like to shake their hand and say "thanks mate"!

JEP1957 ·

Hi All
In my endeavours to find what is wrong with my generator i have come across a guy who has 15 of these generators for sale. He tells me 2 work fine, one overcharges like mine and the rest don't charge at all, so he is also looking for a cure for the overcharging problem. If anyone is interested in these generators I can email his contact number.

Uber Kafer ·

I would be interested but I'm on the wrong side of the island, freight would be big $. I am also interested in getting a schematic of the generator as well. We cant trouble shoot effectively without one.
On another note, I got mine running yesterday for the first time. Runs beautiful, very quiet.
Good thing I persevered with the governor oil. I ended up buying a Nulon product, Hydraulic Fluid ISO 32. SAE10 equals ISO 32 on some charts, but I am not certain that the properties of Hydraulic fluid are ideal for the Governor. Open to suggestions from lubricant gurus. Anyway, the old oil that came out was rubbish.
Got one of the air cleaners, RYCO A256, which turns out to be stock size for an early Mini. Changed the oil, cleaned the screen filter. Set the valves. Cleaned out the fuel tank, got half a tonne of sludge n crap. that crap was right through the rest of the fuel system, but the carby still good. So its had quite a birthday.

Rolled the set out of the shed for a good solid run but then flooded it on restart... damn. By then it was beer-oclock so I left it.
Big run today hopefully.

MickH ·

Is yours a crank start or electric start??? "Someone" rebuilt mine and it appears they have used standard pistons...difficult to turn over normally as the compression is too hight,impossible to crank start by hand.....bumma for no electric start😬

Uber Kafer ·

mine is hand crank, and boy am I feeling it in my arms and shoulders today. Theres defintely a technique to doing it, and it would be an incentive to keep them in good tune.

i've been wondering about some sort of electric starter. got a couple of ideas but would be interested to see if anyone else has done something already.

MickH ·

yeh ive got a few ideas for electric start. It has a large diamond drill on it at the moment but is rather large and not practicle,but makes it easy......

Uber Kafer ·

What, so you mean the gen-set is not 'hand-portable' anymore ??? 😂

MickH ·

Yeh mate still fits in my pocket😂 ,just sticks out a bit👍🤘

MickH ·

SO....how many volts you got at idle????? Hopefully not 240....😘 I've got a plaque on mine from the company that rebuilt it (flood damage) and it's local so i might go there next week to see what info they have.....😁 HOPEFULLY they have some type of schematic for it!!! Will let you know!!!

JEP1957 ·

Uber Kafer - Its a shame you are so far over there in the West and I agree the freight would be costly to get the generator over there. As for the Hydraulic oil it does not have the same additives as gear type oil, with occasional use it should not be an issue. Another good choice of oil would be automatic transmission fluid as it is a light weight oil with very good wear protection.

JEP1957 ·

As for the engine being hard to turn over, if it has not been started for some time, remove the tappit covers, spark plugs put a couple of squirts of engine oil in each plug hole to lubricate the cylinders, turn the engine over slowly and watch to see if all the valves are freely moving as they may be seized from moisture, if they do not appear free, lubricate the stems, tap gently with a soft hammer while rocking engine crankshaft backwards and forwards. As my engine was sitting for quite sometime, this is what i did to loosen the engine up. If you lift the unit up, either sit it in a trailer or something half a metre off the ground it will give you greater leaverage to start the engine.

As for an electric start, if you remove the fan belt and use the pully connected to a starter motor with the belt and a tensioner it will spin the engine over fast enough to start it, you need a far size starter motor without a nose cone, some English vehicles had these starter motors. Buy a V belt pulley mount it to the starter motor shaft, mount the starter motor to the frame, tension the belt by using a bar to lever the starter motor across and it should turn the engine over, remembering not to run it long without the fan running.
I plan toput an extra pulley out where the crank handle fits so i can start and run mine with fan still operating but don't forget you must be able to disconnect the belt from the starter motor as soon as the engine starts as the starter motors are not designed to continuously run. 🙂

MickH ·

i was looking at mounting the starter to the front of the unit and making an adapter to utilise the crank start bolt,that way when the starter spins it throws towards the crank bolt and retracts when not in use. Crank bolts are cheap.....😀

volumex ·

OK - I am a bit slow.
Linky to pdf of the manual: Army VW Generator Manual

Unfortunately no wiring diagrams.

Also, apologies if I led anyone to think I was a vet - I am not and I also am very grateful for the sacrifice made by all vets.

68AutoBug ·

a local who called here a few years ago used to start His with an electric drill of some sort??

maybe 12 or 24 volt Big Drill???
or maybe had a petrol engined compressor in his 4wd??

He didn't have any power on His property..

LEE

OLLY ·

Glad this topic has been covered for me I have been offered two of these . I was unsure about grabbing them but I think I will now,
Room in the shed will be my biggest issue.
Thanks

Uber Kafer ·

volumex wrote:OK - I am a bit slow.
Linky to pdf of the manual: Army VW Generator Manual
Sensational ! thanks for doing that. Good quality scan as well, it should print out nicely.
cheers.

grease monkey253 ·

Hi guys , been a forum member for a few years , but never really posted much. I have recently acquired ex army 3 phase /single phase genny ,type 126a engine runs fine but when I checked the generator out I have found that both brushes are missing .does anybody know if these are still available and where they can be sought from? Cheers. Scott

bendbau ·

Hi,

I had to register to this forum so I could ask a couple of questions about that particular generator. I'm looking at buying a 10 kVa generator because I need a good powerful generator for an inverter welder. I have found one online and it is an ex army one, same as the one featured in this thread. Though someone replaced the VW engine with what looks like a Holden Barina (aka Opel Corsa)

My question relates to the alternator itself. It says it is a single phase 10kVa unit. But is it really?
I mean, it's it 1 phase where you can pull 30A or is it three separate circuits adding up to 10kVa?
The difference is crucial as I am working with a welder that requires 14A in use and spikes at 25A on start up.
I hope someone with electrical knowledge can answer that question as it could save me a thousand kilometers drive for nothing if it turns out being a 3 phases generator that only has 3 single phase plugs.

Thanks

AA003 ·

The output sockets will tell you. Photos?

bendbau ·

I wish I had photos of the outlets.
On all the photos I can find on Internet, they always have the caps on. According to the manual that Volumex shared, the main outlet can supply the whole 10kVa but I can not work out what type of connection it is.
I was hoping that someone either has some details or photos of that main outlet (does it have 3 or more pins?)
Or that someone would know how the generator head is wound.

Thanks

Edit:

I just read this,

Chapter 1, section 1, paragraph 3:

" Four power outlets are provided for each of the two voltages available from the set. One power outlet, in each case, is capable of carrying the full output of the set, the other three outlets being standard pattern types, each capable of carrying a maximum of 3.5 kW of power. "

Doesn't sound good. That sounds like a three phase generator to me, unless the three standard pattern outputs are in phase with each other and can be connected together. A detailed photo of the control panel might be helpful.

AA003 ·

Do you wan't three phase or single phase?
Three phase will do either if it has a neutral. (Star wound)

bendbau ·

Hi Phill,

I'm after a single phase, as in, two big wires (in a 10kVa, that amounts to about up to 41A) But I know that some generators are sold as single phase when in reality they are three phase 415V generators with the 240V outlets wired each between one line and the neutral. But then the issue is that you can only pull 3.5kVa from each phase, or about 13.8A (and even that is not good for the unit if you don't balance your phases)

BennVenn ·

For the sake of posterity I've scanned and uplaoded my 15KVA three phase Genset manual. I've got two of these sets, one is a 50/60hz unit with a different governor than described in the manual. The frequency meter also differs to the standard meter as it has shows both 50 and 60 hz green bars. The rest of the set is identical to the other 15KVA.

The manual can be found here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1m7Cpz2BWaz3RcKSQjSPnWrZrhaoWAAkA?usp=sharing