Joust found this site and would like to know what you think as a am always wandering how i am going to convince myself that a WRX engine is not as good as a hot VW type 1 or Type IV...
Again, since you're building a race car it's about classes.
For CAMS Events:
- WRX engine == running as Sports Sedan or Sports Car Closed.
- Hot VW engine == running in Improved Production, or Sports Sedan, or Sports Car Closed, or 3C Rally Car Other.
For AASA Events:
- WRX engine == running with other 4 cyl turbo's (Sylvia's etc.) or 6 cyl cars, regardless of your times
- Hot VW engine == running with 4 cyl cars, or 6 cyl cars if your times are good enough
All depends on who you want to play with.
Oh and if you bolt in a WRX engine you better make sure you change your avatar.
🙅
Craig Torrens ·
matberry wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:just go WRX power. 🙂
Loser 😂
😂😂
the more conversions the better, subie is the only way to go.
matberry ·
Craig Torrens wrote:
matberry wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:just go WRX power. 🙂
Loser 😂
😂😂
the more conversions the better, subie is the only way to go.
BORING🤖
matberry ·
I know what i'd do......... 😉
Craig Torrens ·
open your mind MAtt, you're being left behind 😉
JVLRacing ·
I can see doors swinging in and out here🤪
matberry ·
So Craig, when are you converting to the rice burning dark side?
Craig Torrens ·
stay tuned 😏
matberry ·
Craig Torrens wrote:stay tuned 😏
No problem dude...I'm EFI
Aussie Dubbin ·
Cheers sides, sorry i didn't mention i was just looking at the moment, but the figures make it hard to compete with. But Yup a good point is made about the avatar. and afterall... isn't the point of a bug to have a bug...
conundrums... conundrums... conundrums.
about the class cheers sides i am building and aiming at improved production.
Cheers for the debate
just putting an interesting comparison sheet out there
matberry ·
Sorry for not being too helpfull. I haven't built many 1915's. I've experience in repairing or upgrading a few.
I'm presently planning a REAL 1915, purely for product evaluation......then I'll be able to give some constructive input... 🙂
Pickpocket ·
The way I'm reading the chart there isn't much of a comparison. So what was the question again?
matberry ·
Wes' chart is hardly an unbiased comparison........
Joel ·
Yep, it's definately a case of apples and oranges.
You could build a dak dak that would mop the floor with both of those engines seeing as the example has less than half the power.
Admittedly Wes did that up alot of years ago, VW engine prices have gone up, a second hand 1916 thats a good runner would sell for a lot more than $2500 these days and the price of conversion packages has come down.
seagull ·
Bring the 1915 to the drags
I give you a head start..... Then I win and we all can talk about that for a few weeks
DylanTheDubber ·
WRX all tha wayyy!!!
From Dylan
westi ·
seagull will you give me a head start.and what do i get when i flog you in your wrx poweredcar. anything.
i am thinking of building a 1916.as a spare.this might be a good money spinner.
anyone hear about the 1915 screaming mouse.if not go you tube.
matberry ·
Me too Brad. I've just swapped a stroker crank for a 69 for my next project....😂
JVLRacing ·
i can see a major drag on debate goin to happen here🤪
1303Steve ·
westi wrote:seagull will you give me a head start.and what do i get when i flog you in your wrx poweredcar. anything.
i am thinking of building a 1916.as a spare.this might be a good money spinner.
anyone hear about the 1915 screaming mouse.if not go you tube.
the mouse that roared
Aussie Dubbin ·
Ok, where i am coming from... but let me preface this with i have not yet built or decided on my engine, and have only read what i am talking aout so keep that in mind.
1915 route:
crank balencing, new heads or lots of machine work read expensive,
new carbs idf for srteetaility or ida for on/ off type power
Linkage and manifolds
1.25 ratio rockers or 1.4 ut again go up too high lose any street drivability
new cam?
new bearings
leads
barrels and piston choose your quality
full flow
oil cooling
new disy maybe
MSD mayby
cooling fan issues?
alternator conversion
leads
degree pully
lighten flywheel
Miscl bolts etc
bearings and other
And at this rate i am looking at a avried 100hp to maybe 160 if its stressed to the hilt. As far as i can reat any more than this and i am rely burning money for each hp extra. And probably looking at $5-$8,000
Soo for roughly $5,000 i could have a WRX motor putting out 150HP+ and the engine is not really that stressed... and plenty of aftermarket options
Or for 5000+ i could have a very enjoyable engine aircooled but only proably 120HP
8000 would get me into the 160HP+ region
Am i right in my assumptions or have i got it completely wrong.
Please rember this is a "discussion"
hellbugged ·
that "wrx route" list, looks somewhat simplified
as usual all the little things add up big time $$ with both set ups...........no one has yet proved it's easy to get 100hp from a 1916 without GOOD parts and/or expert labour investment
brakes and driveline set up to handle the wrx power should not be overlooked either......ain't any use sitting in the shed regularly due to breakages
ask JVL about his ride in the notch and wether any less of a driveline would cope with our "easy" shake down 🙅
as usual all the little things add up big time $$ with both set ups...........no one has yet proved it's easy to get 100hp from a 1916 without GOOD parts and/or expert labour investment
brakes and driveline set up to handle the wrx power should not be overlooked either......ain't any use sitting in the shed regularly due to breakages
ask JVL about his ride in the notch and wether any less of a driveline would cope with our "easy" shake down 🙅
🙅🤪🙅
boof2332 ·
Come on kids....
Comparing a 1916 to a wrx engine is a bit insulting..
Its like comparing a 1916 to a 36hp.
I got my 2002 wrx motor with 50k on it for $1200 and it has 200kw at the wheels.
The biggest cost you will encounter with the wrx motor is the gearbox... I can say this because mine with albins internals but only a super diff was towed to my shed today... seems the diff was not so super.
Maybe something in not having quite as many pony's in the back until the budget can handle the drive train.
The king of flange ...Todd from subaru gears will be sorting me a sti box in a few months when his next shipment arrives...
Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
Matt
ian.mezz ·
subaru is the way to go, just jump in turn the key and away you go, no hard cold starts, a piece of piss to drive in the traffic and power on the HWY. 😊 and as little as 7 ltr per 100Ks.
ttriebler ·
Sad to hear your diff finally gave out Matt.
Big shipment of flange on its way, both type 2 and 930, normal flange and extended flange.
It will be a flange party in my garage at the end of July.
Got you an STi box here ready to go, brand new gearset for it too.
You can thrash the hell out of it at the end of August.
seagull ·
I have a few 3rd gear 4.44 subaru gear sets ( H Gears ) here Matt for when you pop them
mactaylor ·
dont mind a bit of flange myself!
vlad01 ·
haha i love the comment on the v6 torque vs vw engine torque.
in my driving preferences the v6 is wins by miles.
vassy66T1 ·
Everyone has the thing that they enjoy about the volksies.
If your budget is tight then trying to build a big horsepower sub 2l type 1 engine is not the way to go.
A Subaru is cheap horsepower. Of course as Damo said (and Boof is witness to), there is so much else that is affected = more $
I love the VW including the aircooled engine. So i choose that way even though it means more money to make the less/same horsepower as a modern car.
Please don't take offence, but Wrx's bore me senseless.
Craig Torrens ·
boof2332 wrote:Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.😎
ruckus ·
Forgive my ignorance (and long absence), but can anyone quickly outline the practicalities of the STi gearbox inside a bug?
Hopefully this is in keeping with the OP's original intent...
ttriebler ·
5 gears, nice shifting, stronger (if necessary).
Really it's only needed for those who want an overdrive 5th and no drop in the gear spacing from 1st to 5th.
You can achieve the same overdrive gearing with a 4 speed vw but then you get massive holes between the gears where your revs drop off the torque curve.
Or if you have a turbo motor with lots of torque (VW or subie) and keep blowing up vw boxes then fitting the subie box that's designed to go with the motor gives you a better chance of keeping it from blowing up. That's not to say they are indestructible either. 🙅
vlad01 ·
vassy66T1 wrote:Everyone has the thing that they enjoy about the volksies.
If your budget is tight then trying to build a big horsepower sub 2l type 1 engine is not the way to go.
A Subaru is cheap horsepower. Of course as Damo said (and Boof is witness to), there is so much else that is affected = more $
I love the VW including the aircooled engine. So i choose that way even though it means more money to make the less/same horsepower as a modern car.
Please don't take offence, but Wrx's bore me senseless.
yep me too. suby just doesn't excite me at all.
sure they have power but its all up top. I much prefer bottom end.
type 4 is most suited but I do very much like the ideal of a compact V6.
ttriebler ·
Hence why fitting a Subie EZ30 flat 6 would be ideal for you Vlad. Not much longer than the flat 4 and it's a flat 6 - even better torque characteristics than a V6.
ricola ·
All these comparisons seem to forget that a big power VW engine will need the brakes and drivetrain upgrades to take the power just as much as any other engine conversion so don't try adding those costs into the comparison!
ruckus ·
ttriebler wrote:5 gears, nice shifting, stronger (if necessary)...
That's not to say they are indestructible either. 🙅
Thanks mate. After more than four years living in Japan and still longing to be thumping around in a Dub, I thought it would be crazy not to at least check first about Subies as I would assume I'd have a good shot at getting a setup cheap over here... the actual car is the problem 🙂
hellbugged ·
ricola wrote:All these comparisons seem to forget that a big power VW engine will need the brakes and drivetrain upgrades to take the power just as much as any other engine conversion so don't try adding those costs into the comparison!
yes and no.
i think for subie conversion (especially for roadworthy engineering)......you need to go that "extra" step to accomodate the extra tourque and top end speed, which makes it more expensive even tho they will both require modifying
oh Jak, i almost got a quote in on that one before it was gone 😂 ........some valid points there!
matberry ·
hellbugged wrote:oh Jak, i almost got a quote in on that one before it was gone 😂 ........some valid points there!
Jeez, missed that one....ya gotta be quick.....or was it BS anyway???
vlad01 ·
ttriebler wrote:Hence why fitting a Subie EZ30 flat 6 would be ideal for you Vlad. Not much longer than the flat 4 and it's a flat 6 - even better torque characteristics than a V6.
mmm? no there not, not according to wikipeadia.
289nm at @ 4400 rpm is a lot higher up the rpm range than I expected.
but meh 🙄
ttriebler ·
vlad01 wrote:
ttriebler wrote:Hence why fitting a Subie EZ30 flat 6 would be ideal for you Vlad. Not much longer than the flat 4 and it's a flat 6 - even better torque characteristics than a V6.
mmm? no there not, not according to wikipeadia.
289nm at @ 4400 rpm is a lot higher up the rpm range than I expected.
but meh 🙄
Would with a supercharger on it.....mmmm...forced induction at idle....yummy
vlad01 ·
or you could just do this
I have no idea what the actual torque numbers are here? but I know its more than 260nm at like 1200 rpm in this case.
that mitsu V6 at the OP intrigues me as well, hmmm?
ttriebler ·
Bahahahaha you call that a torque curve?
Below is a H6 3.0 with 10psi turbo boost. Awesome.
vlad01 ·
but thats boosted and there is nothing about what rpm its at. I am talking about an off the shelf NA engine.
If thats the case^ f**k it just buy a 993 tubo engine lol. 😀
mactaylor ·
sorry vlad that is flat as and im excited!
pete wood ·
WRX
Pos; Cheap, more powerful, more torque, lots of cheap hotup parts, modern engine, factory built.
Neg; HEAVY, not bolt in, need proper gearbox (at some stage), needs a radiator and intercooler.
1916
Pos; light, accepted as engine upgrade for many racing classes.
Neg; OLD engine, exy, limited KMs, needs lots of regular maintainence, rare, hand built.
Truth is, like people have said, apples VS oranges. Each one has advantages. Re the VW, don't underestimate the importance of lightness. I'd like to own a JPM 1916. 👍
I also really enjoy my EJ25. Kicks over straight away, tunes itself. Give me a 1916 that will do that with OHCs for >$5k, I might consider changing.
JVLRacing ·
😂popcorn please
vlad01 ·
HEY! where is MY popcorn 😀
Brian ·
Craig Torrens wrote:
boof2332 wrote:Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.😎
You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Unless you get Stan to build em for you......
or is that avenue no longer available to you ???
Brian ·
The 225kw at the wheels WRX powered Notch was not even as quick as the 1916 non turbo beetles at Nambucca last year !!!!!
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all . 🙄🙄🙄
hellbugged ·
Brian wrote:The 225kw at the wheels WRX powered Notch was not even as quick as the 1916 non turbo beetles at Nambucca last year !!!!!
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all . 🙄🙄🙄
😊😊😊
can't argue with fact there
200Kw thanx and it's heavy too, yes partially due to the lump in the back and water resivoir up front hmmmmmmmm.......... bunch of cowboy drivers ❗
horses for courses cause it's quicker than any 1916 N/A at Goulburn by a country mile......however apples and apples being Rudi's turbo injected 1916, the subie is a little behind in both power and times but but but but again we go back to weight, development, driver experience/regularity/ability, gearbox, tyres, BRAKES!
i like the way vw's being hard to start has been mentioned a couple of times 😂........never had that problem......i don't think a VW engine is particularly hard to maintain either
this argument is sooooooooo old.......yet it still confuses me despite having ass in seat access to both sides of the coin..... YAWN!
i like all VW's
matberry ·
pete wood wrote:WRX
Pos; Cheap, more powerful, more torque, lots of cheap hotup parts, modern engine, factory built.
Neg; HEAVY, not bolt in, need proper gearbox (at some stage), needs a radiator and intercooler.
1916
Pos; light, accepted as engine upgrade for many racing classes.
Neg; OLD engine, exy, limited KMs, needs lots of regular maintainence, rare, hand built.
Truth is, like people have said, apples VS oranges. Each one has advantages. Re the VW, don't underestimate the importance of lightness. I'd like to own a JPM 1916. 👍
I also really enjoy my EJ25. Kicks over straight away, tunes itself. Give me a 1916 that will do that with OHCs for >$5k, I might consider changing.
Brian wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:
boof2332 wrote:Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.😎
You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Unless you get Stan to build em for you......
or is that avenue no longer available to you ???
hellbugged wrote:
Brian wrote:The 225kw at the wheels WRX powered Notch was not even as quick as the 1916 non turbo beetles at Nambucca last year !!!!!
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all . 🙄🙄🙄
😊😊😊
can't argue with fact there
200Kw thanx and it's heavy too, yes partially due to the lump in the back and water resivoir up front hmmmmmmmm.......... bunch of cowboy drivers ❗
horses for courses cause it's quicker than any 1916 N/A at Goulburn by a country mile......however apples and apples being Rudi's turbo injected 1916, the subie is a little behind in both power and times but but but but again we go back to weight, development, driver experience/regularity/ability, gearbox, tyres, BRAKES!
i like the way vw's being hard to start has been mentioned a couple of times 😂........never had that problem......i don't think a VW engine is particularly hard to maintain either
this argument is sooooooooo old.......yet it still confuses me despite having ass in seat access to both sides of the coin..... YAWN!
i like all VW's
At last some real arguments that are worth reading.
After the power BS, it comes down to CAR performance, not just kilograms and horsepower!!!
JVLRacing ·
I still remember Damo gettin out of the notch,takin me for a spin around Raliegh raceway....HE WAS SHAKING😂 and i knew he was tryin to impress me😂 The notch has the balls to knock of alot of cars😎 take the weight out forget the rest😎
pete wood ·
You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor...
I plead guilty your honour. And I think it's perfectly acceptable. It's like saying you buy a commodore coz you are unable to assemble your own family car. That's most of the population.
I'm sure I could learn to build a really great motor, but I don't have the time or the $$$ to pour into learning/tools so a ready built engine by an expert is the way to go. It's also much cheaper than making 20 years of mistakes. I bet it's taken Matt that long to get as good as he is with engines.
BTW, I've said this before and it's still true. I would LOVE to own a really crazy aircooled powered rally car. Can't think of anything more attractive, but the cost is prohibitive.
hellbugged ·
pete wood wrote:I'm sure I could learn to build a really great motor, but I don't have the time or the $$$ to pour into learning/tools so a ready built engine by an expert is the way to go. It's also much cheaper than making 20 years of mistakes. I bet it's taken Matt that long to get as good as he is with engines.
woah 🙅
yes you could learn, in fact i would say you would already have the knowledge to select a fine array of parts and carefully assemble them........the fact you are on this world wide web means the technics/secrets to assembly are at your finger tips right now!.....also an infinate amount of parts at NOW reasonable prices.
obviously you have never met Matt from that comment........but also having met you, maybe it's come accross wrong Pete.
20 years ago info was harder to come by, but there were still knowledgeable people building awsome reliable aircooled engines......perhaps the technics and theories have not changed much at all, certainly the need to weld standard heads, mix and match and modify components from different origins has somewhat been replaced by the abvailabilty/accessability of "ready" to go gear.......having inspected a set of CNC ported heads the other day, hence the "READY" 🤪
subaru engines have changed over 20 years too....big factory, lab coated, full time career technicans behind the scenes rather than our favourite VW "names".....at what point will we start saying the first thing to do is tear a new found EJ down before install.......the newer versions are becoming a right chore to fit with the amount of extras they now have compared to the pre 2002 ones?.......so really 10 years at what 15K km per year?............we always seem to over look the fact we are comparing 2nd hand WRX motors to Zero mile VW engines within this debate too.......would comparing a crate EJ even the field in the budget department because the EJ will also need rebuilding at some point.
a brand new aircooled will need attention 100 000 km
after install........so will the 2nd hand EJ that already had 100 000km before you put it in?..........
I've assembled a VW engine ONCE......goes ok (TOUCH WOOD)....
matberry ·
JVLRacing wrote:I still remember Damo gettin out of the notch,takin me for a spin around Raliegh raceway....HE WAS SHAKING😂 and i knew he was tryin to impress me😂 The notch has the balls to knock of alot of cars😎 take the weight out forget the rest😎
Awsome feeling that is. Reminds me of when a mate took my old 2332 for a spin, it ran 13.0. His old car was one of the best at the time Subi powered (and cranked boost blah blah) Baja's......well he came back with the adrenalin shakes (like I've done in the same car/track too) and the biggest smile saying how his old engines (VW 2332 IDA....) never came close.
This is a dude that is a trained air cooled mechanic (motorcycles) and built big VW engines's for himself and his mates. He is a guy that wants the best but often doesn't put in the required effort to finess the best from his engine. These day's I build his cars 🙂
What I'm saying is that all things are never equal....... but VW's are certainly capable of surprising even the most power savy.
Yes I've taken years to gain skills that help me in making informed decisions on choosing the right parts for a quality build, but as Daimo and others has said, with the web knowledge base, everyone has so much available to do it themselves BUT, you'll never buy an exchange Volksie that makes 150hp for $1100.......
On a pro VW note, some of the best hipo engines out there make a surprisingly uneventful result on a dyno, but one lap on a good circuit and you may think otherwise. That same engine may read like a very stock based engine. 🙂
matberry ·
pete wood wrote:I bet it's taken Matt that long to get as good as he is with engines.
Actually, ALL my engines have been performers, whether 36hp or 2443
20 years of mistakes and I can still make them without trying 🙂
pete wood ·
I guess my point is, some people have time and $$$ to learn and pour into it but other just pay to get it done. And like Matt said, some people are more committed to important detail than others. Some build and some just assemble.
Re the web and info. Sadly, it's seems more full of crap myths than it is real info. It takes a few years to figure out one from the other and that's usually learnt expensively too. 🙁
Aussie Dubbin ·
Guys sounds like a really healthy debate and it looks like some poelpe love VW engines and would not consider changing. Thats great.
There are many benifits, one being that you may be able to build and work on your own aircooled engine... a dream come true and the reason many of us are actually involved with VWs.
But, and there may never be AN answer...
A Subie powered VW offers a high powered low maintence engine at a reduced cost to a high powered all out VW engine.
Can we agree on that statement maybe?...
Aussie Dubbin ·
PS yes i can see my avatar and hence the mixed opinion/ feeling.
Joel ·
Brian wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:
boof2332 wrote:Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.😎
You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Unless you get Stan to build em for you......
or is that avenue no longer available to you ???
These threads always end up going the exact same way.
vassy66T1 ·
Damo, I appreciate your input because you have both and love them for different reasons.
Good points in your post re rebuild. What sort of dollars would you spend in doing a quality rebuild on an Sti engine?
I know a rebuild of a turbo alone is a motza, and then your injectors, blah, blah.
Matt, I appreciate the passion that drives you to build the best that you can and not be satisfied for less.
I get to enjoy that everyday. 😏
vlad01 ·
Joel wrote:
Brian wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:
boof2332 wrote:Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.😎
You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Unless you get Stan to build em for you......
or is that avenue no longer available to you ???
These threads always end up going the exact same way.
I think I can live without the recommendations of any person who thinks a V6 commodore is a good thing to fit to a type 3 vw 😘
Who cares about some guys dyno run in shootout mode 🤪🤪🤪
Why would you bother to run a stock commodore on a dyno ?
Was ther any improvements made or are you just after a print out that you would be happy with ?
I have driven several commodore V6's they were all very boring and sooooo slow, so wake up and smell the roses , fit a modern golf Engine to your Type 3 then you will see some real improvments.
If you must have 6cyls why not consider a VW VR6 engine much more compact than a commodore.
I think the points I made were valid , you don't have to agree I never thought for a minute that you would.
👍
Craig Torrens ·
Brian wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:
boof2332 wrote:Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.😎
You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Unless you get Stan to build em for you......
or is that avenue no longer available to you ???
Point 1 : I'm not capable of building a decent subie motor either 😂😂😂😂 !!!!!
Point 2: Yep, like you I prefer to get other people to build them for me 😎
Point 3: Why wouldn't that avenue be available to me ?
Brian ·
I have never assembled a subie engine , I have built a few vw engines though, dead easy really .
I just guessed that since you are not flying the vw flag anymore , that avenue may have closed , but I'm probably way off the mark
Craig Torrens ·
I waved the Pobjoy/VW flag today on my way to work........when my 1916 flogged a WRX 😂
And yes, we have all built VW motors...............but you said "decent" which to me means 140hp+, (or about 100hp more than what you're capable of bolting together !)
matberry ·
Aussie Dubbin wrote:A Subie powered VW offers a high powered low maintence engine at a reduced cost to a high powered all out VW engine.
Can we agree on that statement maybe?...
Yep, I totally agree with that statement. BUT it's another story if you substituted 'high powered' with 'high performance'. That to me is another kettle of fish as it's the performance that suffers when an ill handling car is driven to the limit. Sure Subi powered cars can go fast, very fast. We all know that a Dub is overly rear wieght biased, increasing the rear bias is not up there on recommendations to make your car handle better. One day when you have one of 'those' moments, in your Volksie powered car you may collect it and have to clean out your undies......but in your Subi pendulum machine, I'll bet, all other things being equal, you'll have a monumental and be cleaning more than just undies.
vassy66T1 wrote:I get to enjoy that everyday. 😏
Cheers mate, glad you enjoy the fahrvergnugen. 🙂
PS, I don't dislike the power available going Subi, just erks me that so many VW owners have missed the boat with how good a Volksie can go, stop and turn. Not really the VW owners at fault, just too many bad VW mechanics out there.
Brian ·
And yes, we have all built VW motors...............but you said "decent" which to me means 140hp+, (or about 100hp more than what you're capable of bolting together !) 😊🥲 [/quote]
Cruel words Craig
but this time its you who is a long way off the mark.🙅
matberry ·
Craig Torrens wrote:I waved the Pobjoy/VW flag today on my way to work........when my 1916 flogged a WRX 😂
🙂😂
Craig Torrens ·
Brian wrote:And yes, we have all built VW motors...............but you said "decent" which to me means 140hp+, (or about 100hp more than what you're capable of bolting together !) 😊🥲
Cruel words Craig
but this time its you who is a long way off the mark.🙅 [/quote]
Sorry, 90hp..
pete wood ·
^
lol 😂 you made a funny Craig.
JVLRacing ·
THIS debate will never die but will alway linger.....😎
matberry ·
Rexy boys have gone to sleep.......one of these damn waterpumpers arived in my shed today.. now there's 2 of em in there !!!!!!!!! AARRRRG hope they don't breed.
seagull ·
Nar we are here
I have a $50.00 rs GT motor here its an import motor, done around 150000ks
Power output ranges from 200 PS @ 6000 rpm and 260 Nm
find me a Vw motor you can buy for that with those power levels
seagull ·
I dont want to talk about this subject any more , can we all move the photo section and just post photos of girls and hot Vws cause I am liking that greatly
matberry ·
Seagull, a VW motor that puts out 200ps for 50 bucks? oh yeah, plenty about 🙅🙅🙅
There's a time and a place, the one that just rolled in to my workshop is one that fits the bill, but it has over 500rwhp, has extended length rear trailing arms (5" longer) and beam moved forward to get the vehicle ballance back to something respectable. And this is for a baja, that is never going to handle too well.The point is, not all applications are Subi's going to be faster or handle better.
JVLRacing ·
pete wood wrote:I guess my point is, some people have time and $$$ to learn and pour into it but other just pay to get it done. And like Matt said, some people are more committed to important detail than others. Some build and some just assemble.
Re the web and info. Sadly, it's seems more full of crap myths than it is real info. It takes a few years to figure out one from the other and that's usually learnt expensively too. 🙁
Very true Pete....sadly its dyno figures that cause this problem as well😠
seagull ·
matberry wrote:Seagull, a VW motor that puts out 200ps for 50 bucks? oh yeah, plenty about 🙅🙅🙅
There's a time and a place, the one that just rolled in to my workshop is one that fits the bill, but it has over 500rwhp, has extended length rear trailing arms (5" longer) and beam moved forward to get the vehicle ballance back to something respectable. And this is for a baja, that is never going to handle too well.The point is, not all applications are Subi's going to be faster or handle better.
the silly wrecker who could not see it was a EJ20R with 62 k on the dash
Power output ranges from 200 PS @ 6000 rpm and 260 Nm for the GT to 220 PS @ 6400 rpm and 270 Nm for the RS versions. Engines can be identified by coil on plug with 2 M6 bolts per coil and valve covers with 4CAM 16VALVE and horizontal lines above and below the plug holes. All these engines have the air-to-water intercooler setup (chargecooler) and Oil squirters.
Peter Leonard ·
I REALLLLY like Ferraris, but the engine is cantankerous, and it costs a lot, so I'm going to stick a Briggs and Stratton in the back. I know it doesn't SOUND the same, but it still looks cool when it's parked...
People... really... 😉
vlad01 ·
Brian wrote:Very original there Scott
I think I can live without the recommendations of any person who thinks a V6 commodore is a good thing to fit to a type 3 vw 😘
Who cares about some guys dyno run in shootout mode 🤪🤪🤪
Why would you bother to run a stock commodore on a dyno ?
Was ther any improvements made or are you just after a print out that you would be happy with ?
I have driven several commodore V6's they were all very boring and sooooo slow, so wake up and smell the roses , fit a modern golf Engine to your Type 3 then you will see some real improvments.
If you must have 6cyls why not consider a VW VR6 engine much more compact than a commodore.
I think the points I made were valid , you don't have to agree I never thought for a minute that you would.
👍
Thats not my dyno chart just some pic I found on google.
139kw is an improvement. stock is like 120? for a ecotec at the wheels. so probably around the 165Kw at the flywheel judging from that chart.
slow? perhaps you driven onwards of vs ? yes they are slow cos they weight 1500kg+ and has a parasitic auto tanrrys that weigh around 100kg. Freshened up a VP-VS with a T5 manual (28kg~ tranny) go very hard especially at the bottom end.
I wouldn't really want to put a V6 into a type 3 unless I was bored with heaps of money to throw away.
My point is they are considered one of the top engines of all time witch outstanding longevity, driveability and amazing simplicity/compactness/accessibility.
VR6 engine? never really thought of that? but I have though as an idea to place an ecotec into a VW golf lol
Joel ·
A V6 in kombi would be a good option, the added weight really wont effect handling that much as there's not much of it to start with ad the torque would be perfect for getting a loaded brick moving but a V6 in a type3??
That would corner like a bucket of shit.
Might pop mean wheelies, but that and straight line would be all it's good for.
A VR6 mid mounted would handle slightly better but it's not like it's an elegant or practical option.
seagull ·
matberry wrote:Seagull, a VW motor that puts out 200ps for 50 bucks? oh yeah, plenty about 🙅🙅🙅
Ok so I got another today and had to pay $100.00. The guy was feeling sorry for him self & gave me the complete car.
I post some photos just to give you the shits 🙂
matberry ·
😠
JVLRacing ·
Joel wrote:A V6 in kombi would be a good option, the added weight really wont effect handling that much as there's not much of it to start with ad the torque would be perfect for getting a loaded brick moving but a V6 in a type3??
That would corner like a bucket of shit.
Might pop mean wheelies, but that and straight line would be all it's good for.
A VR6 mid mounted would handle slightly better but it's not like it's an elegant or practical option.
VR6 would be my choice of all😎....midmounted would be better balanced, than again in a tube chassis😎
vassy66T1 ·
At least that is keeping a VW engine in it.
Honestly, if you like Subarus that much why not just drive a Subaru and leave the VW's unmolested????
Joel ·
Probably cos most of us don't like the cars only the engines.
I'd rather a professional subaru conversion than a hacked up ill-handling vw conversion just for the sake of keeping it in the family.
It's not like the world is ever gonna run out of unmolested VWs anyway, there's only several millions of them left.
All the purists have that base covered 😉
JVLRacing ·
Joel wrote:Probably cos most of us don't like the cars only the engines.
I'd rather a professional subaru conversion than a hacked up ill-handling vw conversion.
It's not like the world is ever gonna run out of unmolested VWs anyway, there's only several millions of them left.
All the purists have that base covered 😉
😂😂
vassy66T1 ·
I'm thinking of buying a Subaru Impreza and putting a 1916 aircooled engine in it.
What do you think? 😏😏
vlad01 ·
Joel wrote:A V6 in kombi would be a good option, the added weight really wont effect handling that much as there's not much of it to start with ad the torque would be perfect for getting a loaded brick moving but a V6 in a type3??
That would corner like a bucket of shit.
Might pop mean wheelies, but that and straight line would be all it's good for.
A VR6 mid mounted would handle slightly better but it's not like it's an elegant or practical option.
holy f**k! 🤪 what a mess!
i don't know that an iron v6 donk would effect the handling that badly like you say. the weight difference is that of only 1 small/medium person in the boot. i guess you could chuck in the weight difference and position that in the boot accordingly and take it for a test drive and see what difference it makes?
its not like a beetle. type 3 is over a ton and has much larger wheel base and much better suspension set up.
the weight distribution of a type 3 is 60/40 and it would end up about 63/37 and thats with the radiator in the back with this quick calculation.
Joel ·
vlad01 wrote:its not like a beetle. type 3 is over a ton and has much larger wheel base and much better suspension set up.
Well you lose that bet.
All air cooleds - Beetle, kombi, type3, Karmann Ghia etc have identical wheel bases.
same with with suspension a type3 and beetle have identical Rear ends be it swing or IRS and the front if you exclude strut bugs is still the same prehistoric tractor torsion bar front end.
THe extra weight wouldnt really bother most people, it;s only if your fussy about handling that it would be of any concern.
No idiot in their right mind would put the rad in the back especially in a type3, there are absolutely no advantages to rear rads except for tight asses saving money on less pipework.
The VR6 in the square above is actually seized cos it over heated thanks to his crappy rear mount......🙄
matberry ·
Comon Joel, Vlad killed the thread with that wheelbase comment........now look what you've done 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Joel ·
😂
1303Steve ·
Hi
A super has a 30 mm longer wheelbase than a Massey Ferguson equeiped Beetle.
Steve
Joel ·
Pffft, couple of extra psi in the tyres will make up for that 😉
vlad01 ·
Joel wrote:
vlad01 wrote:its not like a beetle. type 3 is over a ton and has much larger wheel base and much better suspension set up.
Well you lose that bet.
All air cooleds - Beetle, kombi, type3, Karmann Ghia etc have identical wheel bases.
same with with suspension a type3 and beetle have identical Rear ends be it swing or IRS and the front if you exclude strut bugs is still the same prehistoric tractor torsion bar front end.
THe extra weight wouldnt really bother most people, it;s only if your fussy about handling that it would be of any concern.
No idiot in their right mind would put the rad in the back especially in a type3, there are absolutely no advantages to rear rads except for tight asses saving money on less pipework.
The VR6 in the square above is actually seized cos it over heated thanks to his crappy rear mount......🙄
hmm? what do you know, you're right, the wheelbase is the same. 😊I was sure beetle one was shorter as I have heard it mentioned several times already when the type 3 vs type 1 suspension convos get heated up.
yeah the rear irs is the same but I was referring to the front. More weight up front and completely different setup made it a much more stable.
As for radiators I couldn't be f**ked working out the weight difference in the front vs back . For simplicity sakes I just calculated the weight all in the back.
As for the thread I did a good job didn't I 😂
Joel ·
I always figured Type3 and bug would be the same but I remember first time I heard Kombi was the same wheelbase I called BS.
vlad01 ·
I have scientific publications manuals for 1500 bug and type 3. Only the type 3 manual states wheelbase.
Bug one doesn't? nor the wheel track for irs models only for SA. Type 3 manual tells you everything even an acceleration chart and gear change points, performance stats etc... Even the weather the car was tested in lol😂 Its got integrated wheels road test as part of the book.
So I never seen the hard facts on these specs of the beetle. Don't own one either. Did have a buggy though and it was much shorter wheel base.
Probably had the chassis shorten.
Joel ·
Yeah I've got those same manuals, the bug one has a white aussie 60s bug on the front yea?
The Superbug manual has the road test with colour, weather conditions, acceleration chart, all that crap too, I've also got the kombi one somewhere.
The 1600 baywindow kombi acceleration chart is good for a laugh, I think most peoples sprint to the dunny after a curry would be quicker.
I'd reckon most people even be done wiping by the time top speed is reached.
vlad01 ·
lol what is the 0-100 time?
type 3 1600 dual carb is 17 sec 🙄 can't imagine any slower. hyundai getz gets pretty close though 😂
Joel ·
I'd have to dig it out but it's around 30secs for 1600 4 speed.
They are very heavy and aerodynamically worse than a brick so it's understandable that the same engine that propels a bug to 100 in 18secs is gonna struggle.
vlad01 ·
It is surprising the type 3 is a sec quicker than the bug even though the bug weighs in at 840kg ? and the type 3 is 1035Kg.
Guess that extra 11hp and 10ft-lb helps.
Joel ·
Dunno where you got those figures from?
is that 1500 or 1600 type3 and beetle?
Cos 1600 type3 is 65hp and 1600 bug is 60hp, that the higher CR and twin carbs
Performance is bug 0-100 16.6sec top speed 84mph
type3 0-100 17.2sec top speed 83.3mph
Aussie Dubbin ·
Guys...!
Where is this thread going???
vlad01 ·
I got figures of 0-100 17.2 sec. top speed of 87mph 1/4 mile in 20.5sec
operator manual says 83 mph but wheels road test got an average of 87mph, and I have pushed my old square just over 90mph down a massive hill with a tail wind😂
My notch couldn't do over 75mph even with a 4km straight 😂 pos engine!
Google says 1302 and 1303 to have 77ft-lb and 54hp, my 1500 workshop manual says 54hp for 1500?
I don't know?? bug specs seem all over the place. So many sites say differently to each other for the 1600 bug. I have never personally seen the 60hp figure mentioned anywhere in my life yet.
vlad01 ·
down the toilet thats where.
Joel ·
That's cos the yanks like to speak in SAE hp and Europe likes DIN hp so the figures are all over the shop depending where you read.
60hp is the stock factory hp for all non smog 1600tp with a 34pict3.
vlad01 ·
yeah but DIN vs SAE is only 1.39 more difference at 100 DIN.
but I see figures 5-10 hp out at number around the 50 mark. I thing people just make them up lol. Chinese whisperers!
