EA81 conversion into trike type 3 auto

Ok, here we go. Was a little nervous this morning. In my mid fifties and had to extract my 1916. When this was done under warrantee two guys lifted it over the tow bar. I was on my own but found a use for the hand trolley. For those novices like me I will go through some basic that most of you gugys alreadu know so they can get a feel for how easy it is to do this conversion/or difficult. The trike design might cause some issues we have to work through together and I welcome your advice even if it isnt taken up.





I havent taken possession of the EA81 as yet. Adapter ordered.

The Panther engine bar is held on with four bolts. In my case it also holds the roof on.






The tow bar drops down after releasing two bolts.




This shot shows the mounts etc



VW engine ready for its new owner to pick up shortly.

why is the left had part of the frame hit in ?

Clearance for #3 cylinder

yes, think that's the case. it was like that when new. 95% of these are manual of course, dont know if that makes any fifference to the motor being a bit more forward....likely not...maybe the builder welded the horn too far back?

I would use the tow bar for mounting the subaru engine mounts to mmmm is those two tabs / bits of flat bar that hold the tow bar up look only good for supporting a garden trailer ? or does it bolt to the rear steel frame that goes around the motor ?

If not, I would get the brackets reinforced as welding a short piece flat bar down the pipe will just fatigue over time.

I've been concerned for some time about that tow bar. I've noticed some trikers make a full length tow bar to go right up the front. There is a heavy duty lug under the fuel tank further up the front that commonly you attach a towing unit that slips under the front wheel to tow your trike around on a cars towbar with trike rear wheels on the road however that would never be used for that purpose as the trike is an auto. Could secure the tow bar from that point. I'd assume the bar would have to be made by a proper tow bar maker for it to be officially acceptable for all authorities. A can of worms? Maybe I could just secure the engine mounts to that tow bar and together it could be strong enough as one unit?

I dont like cutting corners but I have towed a camper and this van some distances around tassy, Broken hill etc without an issue with the towbar. If I was to make a new bar then where it is fixed to that flat plate you mention then that, I'd assume would need strengthening also and one thing you strengthen it becomes a chain reaction doesnt it?

I was hoping the EA81 increase in torque etc would be not that much that the engine would remain cantilevered like the VW one and not require the subie engine mounts.

That wrap around protection bar is thin alloy and already has 50 kgms extra weight on it for the roof. dont want to mess with that eh.

Welcoming the brainstorming Seagull. keep it up guys. I'm keen to do it correclty even if I am hesitant on the extra work.

Further to the above re: engine mounts and tow bar strength. Its too improtant to ignore try as I will.

After thinking about it...the tow bar is hinged at its end under the alloy box shaped alloy tank where two lugs protrude. That's why it was able to hinge onto the ground.

About 60cm further forward is the large lug protruding for that hitch emntioned above. Now that trike weights have been abolished (and thats the reason for so much alloy in the frame) I can go ahead after the engine is installed and get made up a heavy duty tow bar starting from the hitch point attached to the hinge points and so on...on the current "flats" etc. if it was made with say 50mmx50mm steel or 50x75mm then with the proper thickness it should be really strong. This would enable the engine mounts to be attached to it. That results in the horn mounts to remain untouched.

what do you think? and what thickness steel? thicker the better? I am capable of making it myself. my only concern is officialdom!

If the wall thickness was 4mm you could keep with the set up and just strengthen the mounts.
for mounts you use land cruser rear leaf spring bushes, these fit into a piece of tube and you make a crush tube that is installed in the center.

More pics.

Measured the tow bar tube thickness and be lucky if it was 2.5mm thick and is made of steel (magnet test)

This pic shows where the tow bar is hinged from under the tank





And here is the towing lug mentioned earlier.



Here are the rear most mounts for the tow bar unit. The ones nearest the rear of the trike are for the wrap around engine protectoing unit. The ones one the gearbox side are the towbar ones. they are 5mm steel.





This shot depicts the shape of the tow bar.



And this one with the towbar lift shows the rear most shpae of it how it is angled upwards.




As all these compnents are of steel I'm wondering if I fabricate another frame that starts at that frotn lug then joins with the existing tow bar right up to and a little beyond that rear most angle of the tow bar that that would strengthen the towbar no end and provide enough strength to attach the Subaru engine mounts. I can do this part of the project and tack weld it then get my engineer that built my roof to weld it up professionally.
Way to go Neil?.

Yes

ok.

will wait now for my ea81 engine and adapter.thanls to all that have answered my questions. you are making it easy.

OK I am gonna buck the trend here. I don't get it.
Everyone was saying oh no don't get the EA81 it has barely any more power or torque that the original VW aircooled motor.
Now that tweety has got the EA81 it suddenly has gobs of torque and needs to use the engine mounts?
If the gearbox mount and 4 x connecting bolts was good enough for the VW aircooled motor why wouldn't it be good enough for the adaptor plate and ea81 engine which has a touch more power and torque?
I reckon its massive overkill to be making massive engine mount bars under the length of the trike and just adds weight to the trike. It will end up with a worse power to weight ratio than before.
If you absolutely MUST use the EA81 engine mounts as well as the gearbox mounts why not just extend the gearbox mounts towards the back of the car a bit more so they also tie in to the ea81 engine mounts. That adds minimum extra weight and complexity. Even then I reckon its unnecessary.
Sorry if I sound like a killjoy - am I missing something critical?

Brainstoring is good and should be embraced.

It would certainly mean less work for me! There are big 2300ccVW engines out there with double the torque of my 1916.

But i accept also the concern by Seagull and others. a discussion/debate? why not?

A full length tow bar would be a good thing though regardless as the current one is only 2mm steel tube and past the "flats" there is no support at all. Meaning 750 mm.

The suggestion that the towbar is capable of towing a garden trailer is correct. towball rating of 30kgms is not meant to be stretched to a small caravan. My meaning is that if the bar is to be strengthened/replaced then to take on board the easy mod to add engine mounts is then a no brainer. Dont you think?

Nearly all the EA81 conversions I've seen haven't had any sort of mounts unless it's in a car like a later kombi that needs one.

I guess that's one appeal to people, they are no different in weight to a 1600 so are fine to just swing off the gearbox like stock and mated to an auto trans you're not gonna have destructive torque issues.

ttriebler wrote:OK I am gonna buck the trend here. I don't get it.
Everyone was saying oh no don't get the EA81 it has barely any more power or torque that the original VW aircooled motor.
Now that tweety has got the EA81 it suddenly has gobs of torque and needs to use the engine mounts?
If the gearbox mount and 4 x connecting bolts was good enough for the VW aircooled motor why wouldn't it be good enough for the adaptor plate and ea81 engine which has a touch more power and torque?
I reckon its massive overkill to be making massive engine mount bars under the length of the trike and just adds weight to the trike. It will end up with a worse power to weight ratio than before.
If you absolutely MUST use the EA81 engine mounts as well as the gearbox mounts why not just extend the gearbox mounts towards the back of the car a bit more so they also tie in to the ea81 engine mounts. That adds minimum extra weight and complexity. Even then I reckon its unnecessary.
Sorry if I sound like a killjoy - am I missing something critical?

Good point re the mounts....but you might find the engineer would like the engine mounted the way it was supposed to be...a VW engine mounts off the gearbox,a Subi doesnt. I know conversions done here require the engine being transplanted to mount the same way it was supposed to...we had to use engine mounts on our engine to get it passed by an engineer...also the VW is mounted to the gearbox,they fit together, the Subi will be bolted to an adapter plate.....

Probably depends on the engineer, mine who was pretty fussy was happy with no engine mounts, just the kafer bar to strengthen the forks, and thats with an EJ22 which is a shitload heavier.

http://www.nalingasteel.com.au/Nalinga_products_pipe%20and%20rhs.html

Front to rear towbar fabricated=

RHS 65x35x3mm weighs 4.2 kgms/metre about 4.5 metres max required that would include enough for mounts for the engine mounts =

19 kgms+ engine mounts weight

I thought that I could seek out the steel and take the original towbar to my local man that can bend it the same angle (up and inwards) same as the rear part of the towbar, weld angle to it for the "flats" and centre mounts then I could do the rest up the front. thereby replacing the original towbar altogether saving 7 kgms

could sell original towbar.

This pic is of the last mount of the tow bar



this one another angle



The towbar tube is 40-42mm OD. if I was to run 40mm square or round tube 4mm thick from the front inner ladder bars to almost the end of the towbar and secure it as many points as possible and clamp it to the original towbar ??

The path it would take is where this peice of wood runs.



Then I have a strengthened tow bar and if the engineer wants a mount there is a place to mount it?

that trike looks heavy. whats the Kgs on the rego papers.

fear not

aluminium is used extensively. monocoque tank, engine protection bar, frame above airbags, front forks,

steel items are ladder bars, engine mounts (horns) towbar. Has compliance plate and weighed 448 kgms new without accessories and is registered at that weight.

Roof weighs 50kgms (includes 19 kgms for the Mazda 121 funtop electric operated sunroof)and is also passed by a Vicroads approved engineer (VASS) as an accessory. Its detachable by two bolts at the rear and secured by two HT patio bolts and utility clamps and does not impede to be a risk to pedestrians etc etc . The roof frame is made of 4mm alloy tube by my local engineer in Euroa.







My guess is it now weighs gross 560 kgms or so.

this is how they come new.




trikes can tow a lot more than motorcycles. they are also much faster around bends. you cant flip them, you cant therefore drop them and as one gets older balance issues dont exist. there is no better toy in my view. but I am biased.

What about Diesel power?
Mitchell

or this 500 HP hemi powered beast

A trike looks like heaps of fun. Those that dont get it, probably wont get it. Especially if you have bad knee or leg, or balance, that would be the way to be out and about as a confident rider. I haven't riden one, but I would love to.

Diesels? would love to use a diesel. I also drive a Hyundai i30 (180,000kms) turbo 1.6 diesel and it is no doubt the best car ever bought. heaps of power 5.8 lit/100kms and trumps any hill in fifth!.

Problem is at 3200 rpm (100kph) it would be way past its torque curve and in diesel terms revving its little heart out. and the nightmare of the swap. And its never been done in the past due to that previous weight limit mentioned.

I also run a Proton Jumbuck. Its a typical FWD set up. Such a traditional unit would be a good base to a trike but you might as well start from scratch.

You're right helbus, a good percentage of motorcyclists dont "get" trikes. We are often shunned. It's their problem though. Most have never ridden one. I can say though, to take corners in safety far quicker than a bike can is a thrill. they are scraping their pegs and braking when the triker is applying more throttle. But coming onto the straight is another thing! they catch up easily.

Those that have built their own trikes will tell you there is a lot of work there.

Progress stalled a while as I broke my leg 2 weeks ago.

Now the pain has gone and am able to wheelchair around the shed and get some progress happening.

John Sherman reassured me before I got delivery of the engine that the adapter will make more sense then...and it did. So easy to instal it after taking off the small Subaru bell housing but you have to finely locate the adapter using a steel dowel measuring tool so the outer rear seal is even all around it.

The more I work on this EA81 the more I like it (but then I have ridden it yet!). I've commenced taking off all the clutter...the vacuum tubes (rubber and steel) are numerous, some already blocked off etc. Some can be taken off in clusters. I think the carbon canister has to remain but will be a further away from the engine for appearances.

The huga and heavy alternator/A/C comprssor mounts has been halved!! got the angle grinder out on that and a coat of black heat proof paint. It now will only have to secure the alternator.

The mechanic owner of the engine assured me the deas were recoed when the block was done about 80,000kms ago. The guy is about 65 years old and his word is gold I reckon. He even installed the new dizzy and weber without charge. Nice guy.

A full day tomorrow will see the rest of the leaning of the engine and take off the clutter RH side. This is beginning to be enjoyable. By the way, for ease of access from the rear of the trike I've rotated the oil filler tube and dip stick...seemed to go ok.







this below is that huge mount that was cut after pic taken.



looking better.

lot of work done..





have to order 3 seals, w/pump hose small and fanbelt. then its going together.

is that a new rear main seal? if not, it's worth replacing it before you put it in the car.

No it isnt new. am going to order both those seals today. Also have new torque converter seal to put in. am waiting on a seal removing tool I ordered on ebay 3 weeks ago....

thanks pete

got the seal removal tool in the post. Easy as...



New seal in place



Valve cover breathers into intake



breathing tubes.



auto kick down switch



throttle cable mount home made



engine on wheels ready for installation after rear main seals arrive. extendable air intake to enable cool air from around radiator that (might) go above transaxle.



Pretty simple stuff but there might be other novices like me out there that will benefit...

A top adviser for me is a fellow from Western Australia. "Toonga" told me today that the valve breather hoses hooked up that way wasnt right.

The hose on the dizzy side sucks clean air in at the original air filter housing. Then the air circulates and comes out the other valve cover hoses (alternator side) to go back into the engine through a PCV valve.

Prior to that PCV valve air also comes form the air cleaner housing to meet up with these fumes so the engine isnt saturated with gases, effectively making the mix less toxic.

The easiest way to rectify this with a weber conversion is to gwt two mini filters

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MINI-AIR-CRANKCASE-VENT-BREATHER-FILTER-15MM-CHROME-RED-/250814188569?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a65b0cc19

place one on the end of the breather hose of the dizzy side. I will then secure the filter to the top of the adapter plate.

The other filter I'll use a "T" peice prior to the PCV valve so air can be sucked in there. Essentially though they are treated as two seperate systems, one sucking the other blowing.

Ready to strart up in the morning only for a few seconds as I havent got a radiator yet.
Electric fuel pump hooked up (safety cut off switch to come), all electrics at this point seem ok (labelled most things) Exhaust is to get me to the exhaust shop only. roo deterant



I had made a small pulley arrangement for the throttl BUT too much friction. ended up making this set up witha cable that doesnt snake and a lever that is simple.



I have swapped ideas on radiator location mant times. finally I am to order a custom one that will fit vertically over the transaxle. even though I reversed the oil filler it is still too far to the front so will get my engineer to alter it to angle rearward clear of that radiator. Radiator to be about 850mm wide, 260mm high and up to 40mm 3 core thick. plenty of wind from the sides available. two small thermo fans maybe 3 or 4.



Bit nervous starting it up. I'm no mechanic, in fact I'm a poor back yarder too. When younger I owned a Lotus powered car. It needed head work. I ended up pulling that head off 4 times before I got it to run. 1/ forgot to install a oil drain tube that sandwiches between head and block 2/ chain driven twin OH camshafts and chain had a split link...dropped it as I tried to connect it and down to the sump it went 3/ didnt syncronise the cams and bent all 4 inlet valves on the pistons 4 forgot to cut out the S/steel off the cheaper headgasket that would have coroded the alloy head. was an expensice excercise. hope I have success in the morning...

she's running!

got to order a custom radiator for above the transaxle and new exhaust.

http://s804.photobucket.com/albums/yy330/eaglefree/?action=view&current=MyMovie.mp4

Good on ya. Don't you love it when a plan comes together?

yeh Helbus. good feeling.

A custom radiator was $1200 including expansion tank. No thanks.

Ordered a Racing two core Toyota MR2 radiator. not as wide as a Jeep Cherokee but the Jeep is too wide anyway.

Couple of weeks to sort it all out then engineer. A friend of mone is having problems with his conversion in SA. A Oztrike he put a EJ22 in it. Weight, balance issues. hope he gets it through. And I'm hoping I dont have issues.

radiator is secure now.















hardly visible from rear



scoops found on ebay will direct air from ladder bars

More progress. This is a $10 item at Bunnings. A steel shelf type rack.



Protects the engine side of the radiator. you can also see the expasion bottle mounted



Here is the expansion bottle access to the cap in an opening ormslly reserve for a glove compartment, an option I didnt take when trike was ordered.



air filter remounted.



The filter will poke out a bit less than this. Too far and it will impede on the roof retracting mechanism. This shot also shows the S/steel plates for the glove compartments. 5 louvre vents to cover these and add forced air to the radiator.

the expansion bottle needs to be higher then the radiator 😊

I would take that $10 steel shelf type rack off and mount a one or a couple of electric fans there.

thanks ian.mezz

I tihnk the angle that pic was taken makes the bottle look lower. in fact my I think the top of the radiator is about one third the level of the bottle. Also I cant get it higher- there is no location higher to mount it. I'll see how it goes and check for air pockets.

I know sucker fans are more efficient but a DCraig 12"fan is on its way to be mounted as a pusher fan. a sucker fan will crowd the engine area and fingers (?). there is enough room between the fan and the seat back for the 51mm needed for the fan. and extra space for air flow.

It remains an option though as the DCaig fans are reversible.

I wish you were my next door neighbour. I would love to hang out and engineer stuff together. You are doing great.

thanks Helbus. yeh, love to do this stuff but like to tour around more. cant wait to hook up the van after I strengthen the tow bar etc. wait to I get the exhaust on- its going to be a hell raiser custom job. not like way out truck stacks, bit more subtle than that.

having a look at the pics of the expansion bottle it looks too low as suggested. will look at that tomorrow when I get home.

thanks again guys.

Good news and bad news.

Good news is my Hawse pipes arrived today. held one in position here



hope that will allow a little cool air into the thermo fan area with a duct.

Bad news is that in this pic the spirit level doesnt lie. the top neck of the expansion bottle is at the very top of the radiator core- too low as has already been pointed out. I've looked at the bottle location. I could squeeze out an inch or so by mounting it higher and maybe rearward but it isnt much.

Suggestions?

well done!

Interseting stuff

you can fit a air bleed plug in the highest part of the radiator to allow for the different height.
You just use a plastic funnel sitting in header tank when filling the system up.
You also need to get some yellow pool noodles to fit nice and neat between the back of the seat and radiator.
across the top and down both sides of the radiator to make sure all the air get forced into the radiator.
and not just pass over the top.
Pool noodles are great because they don't hold water or loose shape.

thanks bizaar

Ian.mezz had to google pool noodles! now I know what you are suggesting and thats been on my mind a gfair bit- the sealing of the air flow. are these noodles heat proof? can they withstand heat form the radiator?

Its not uncommon for radiators to be lower than some of the system.

Thats why they invented bleeders and the overflow tank system.

With the overflow system it draws in coolant when the system is cooling down after a run using a sort of siphon principal and negative pressure.
If also comes down to the rad cap as in a overflow system the caps has a one way valve.

On my car the rad and coolant tank is lower than the thermostat housing and hose. Its got a bleeder on top of that housing to allow initial bleeding but after that is set the system works perfectly.

yeah , I have them around the front of my radiator for 3 years.

Thanks again. Well did what all guys do when they have an issue- ask the wife......yeh right!. She did make a point in that if the cooling system is sorted and working right then access to the radiator cap on the expansion tank is not that relevant.

So I found the highest point. And the bottom of the bottle is in line with the top horizontal core of the radiator.





You can see here the flexi radiator hoses are installed. one was 60cm the other 50cm.





One Hawsie pipe has been fixed. I am happy with this option.



You can see here the flow direction of air towards the radiator. Need some ducting. 12 inches circumference. so ducting about 4.5 inches diameter....have to start looking.



The temp gauge. I have a favourite spot beneath the instrument cluster.



gotta seek our some 50mm internal pipe...maybe pvc and paint it or chrome exhaust tip or similar to house it and protect it from the rain.



So what's left. Will get back my engine protection bar and modified oil filler Friday. Then start up and tune the best I can. Get it to the exhaust joint. Ride home!. engineer.

does that radiator have rubber mounts,

another pick up ian.mezz. no it doesnt. didnt occur to me at all. will buy some.

thanks.

the rad could form cracks from harsh vibrations if there is/will be are any.

YEP. THE AIRBAG REAR SUSPENSION IS GOOD BUT A LITTLE HARSH. great for levelling when towing etc.

will seek out some rubber grommets, botls and locknuts to absorb those bumps and vibrations.

your advice is valued guys

One of the things that annoys me with custom work is the negativity one gets from service staff at retail outlets. Some are good, others have no vision.

Today was no exception. Arrived at a large hardware store where there is prompt service. I didnt want to go through the ordeal of explaining such- VW chopper trike now with Subie engine and have ducts called Hawse pipes and need flexible pipe to direct air to the thermo fan etc etc. But I did say it all and got the common reply- "hope, you wont find that here". "Ill just have a browse then".....my common reply knowing full well I'll find something.

In the plumbing section I located a rubber sleeve and a flexible lower cistern pipe. And the rubber sleeve fitted onto the Hawse pipe perfectly.



This pic shows the advantage of that flexible section



The view from the side is more brighter with the flash. Can paint black





Add to that a straight 90mm section and it reaches the thermo fan



Not a cheap excercise. hawse pipes x2 $76, flexi pipes and rubber sleeves x2 $96, 90mm pipe $10. total $180 for this. but I think it adds tot eh overall appearance and hopefully a little more air into that area.

lol cool.

thanks Vlad01.

Busy day today.

Both air intakes finished.



The length will suffice



Thematic fan finished except for a thermo switch to buy soon







intakes- view from front




Finally I took off the radiator and rubber mounted it.

Today I fixed the 5 louvre vents in place. Purchased from ebay. They are meant for boats. I am really imprssed with the appearance of these units and there usefullness.




Had to cut out the glove box holes (an option form the manufacturer I did not take up) with a jigsaw. then S/steel self tappers.




This shot shows the radiator under and more rearward. a small wind deflector will be added to direct the air inward more.



This shot depicts both new air intakes. Ignor the plumbing of the expansion tank....small flexi hose will be sought.







Tweety is growing teeth!

Rarely have I gone to purchase items and it all comes together so well. Today I had luck on my side.

I had purchased a regular temp gauge form ebay for $16. was reluctant to hook it up on the basis that 1/ I could find an ideal spot to mount it and 2/ I had to find an actual mount for it.

With that in mind I entered Autobarn today seeking out a sender unit for my new Davies Craig thermo fan. These switches dont come in the packet and are sold seperately.

Armed with a blocking bolt from the radiator to match it up the guy initially told me he'd have to order one. Then he had an alternative. A temperature sender that has its own housing, that is installed between the radiator hose inlet (or thermostat housing) and the hose. He informed me that if I was to purchase also a thermo fan adjustable unit then that item can screw into the temperature unit housing.

The bonus was that the monitor on the dash, fitted with velcoe and easily fixed to my van electric brake unit, has a temperature guage as well as a voltage indicator.

Coming together good.
S'cool when things go together

When you reckon it will be "finished"??

Not long Bizaar

Refit the radiator grill so its easy to get off. Pick up rear protection bar thats getting strengthened and the oil filler thats getting its neck direction altered (so its easy to put oil in as its been rotated 180 degrees).

Rough tune without exhaust. (not much out if tune cause when I was fitting this sender unit I put the ignition on and accidentally went a bit far and the thing started up in an instant!!!!). get it trayed to the exhaust joint 75 kms away. pick up and ride man!!

But a few loud kms around my hamlet of a town (Strathbogie Vic) wont hurt before that....eager to see how she'll go.

2 weeks

Manny LOL at the white recycled fridge grill

add to that the flexi dunny cistern ducts....

Ready to start up tomorrow morning. yeh!!

There is a pool of auto trans fluid on the floor. I had changed the pan gasket and used that red high temp gasket silastic. so it shloudnt have leaked- am disappointed.

I've been told STAG gasket glue is best.

Anyone with ideas on how to stop my auot from leaking? Will post in tech as well.

Engine is going now. have issues with carbie jetting, small water leaks but all ok. exhaust next.

engine is smooth, power delivery at this stage seems adequate. with that loud exhaust and the tacho reading low I have no idea how hard the engine is working. so will wait till that exhaust comes.




below- these are called Hawse pipes. from boats they are used for anchor ropes. Ducting to thermo fan area.




and lourve vents also from boats.





kill two birds with the one stone. a thermo fan sender unit and a temp gauge in one digital unit.





it also has a voltmeter

final stages now.

Now I want vid of you DRIFTing it. 😁

Pete wood....you devil you!!

For some time as it turns out I've wanted a few minutes of Video on Youtube.

So I have a few seconds of months ago before the roof- cruising along at 90 kph on a country road. Time I took some of it with the roof. Set the scene- from the cruise shot to seeing just welding shadows...then reversing out of the garage with the roof on and Subie power. I'll even let some air out of the airbags to give it a lower look. Wheel stand? Not meant for it but easily done...maybe a small one.

Then the drift. Yes, many a dirt road through state forest here. Set up the tripod and make sure I'm alone.

Done Pete!! Will do!

Gimmy 2-3 weeks.

no. proper drift, I want to see tyre smoke.... 🤘

😂

Trust me Pete, these trikes stick to the corners way too well to break traction.

Reading with interest......One suggestion thou, the flexible ducting, an alternative for this could be ducting used for exhaust fans over stoves. Comes in different diameters and lengths. Maybe a bit better around heat.

Baja_01 thanks. the ducting is ahead of the radiator. Cant see heat getting anywhere near it and is inches away from the cool side of the core. rode it today to an exhaust place and temp sat on 85 degrees. Thermatic fan cuts in at 88, the thermostat rating. real test in the summer - can put second thermo fan on but want to wait and see. havent even made up some wind deflecting plates yet under the trike to get more air up.

Joel is correct- VW style trikes wont smoke tyres. They easily out corner motorcycles. M/C's scrape pegs and are braking when trikers are accelerating around the bends- I know this- proved it against a HD springer 1200 and a Yammy 1200 tourer. In fact I'll go further. I towed a camper trailer and twice was surprised by a hairpin bend and in desperation just turned into it at warp speed- no problem. another time on the great ocean road a red Porsche new model tailed me. Bends with advisory signs of 35 kph were taken at 80-90. For 15 kms the Porsche couldnt outcorner me until the first straight and he was gone. And I had that camper in tow!! Turned out to be perfect speed for the auto trans 2nd gear range. The C of G is just ahead of the rear axle. some VW trikes you can lift the front wheel with your little finger.

So no it will be a dirt road frift if any and on private property ...of course!. These machines are not suitable for wheelstands but if its a Youtube film it would be worth it.

Exhaust first then engineer. Exhaust design will be a little "wild" but tasteful. Found a fabricator that has flair- always a problem for me is to avoid those professionals that cant see outside the "box". Basically there will be the mandatory balance pipe, good efficient muffler each side to upswept twin pipes each side.

Tweety - congratulations on pulling off such a great conversion. I have read this thread with great interest and applaud you for the way you have gone about it. AND it's done :-)

Thanks Todd. It has been a commitment but gotta admit that the couple of forums I've used have really helped out. Now any novice can do this type of work and that's great.

And one day I just might convert my type 3 auto for one of your O/D units reverse crown. I know I've mentioned it many times to other VW trike owners.

It was a delight this morning riding Tweety 75 kms to shepparton for the exhaust booking and not have an oil leak or anything that would result in the engine to be extracted. And boy was the subie engine LOUD!

tweety wrote:Now any novice can do this type of work and that's great.

Umm, I think you're selling yourself short. Most of the novices, like Todd said, don't even finish it.

Re the motor; have you noticed a difference in performance? More torque/power? How is it different to the 1916 in driving?

Pete.wood. got me!. I've learned something about some forums. The downside- the side we shouldnt focus on too much is , epsecially when it comes to motor vehicle enthusiasts, to take care in avoiding conflict. And conflict often comes about when ones expertise is questioned. A self confessed novice avoid this almost entirely!

A nasty arorgant fellow attacks you for your decisions/unprofessional mechanical work...."but I'm a novice, I'm allowed to do that"!

Having an interest in motor vehicles for 40 years does give you invaluable knowledge and more importantly, in the case of a conversion, the ability to seek out advice and put it into action. So yeh, likely am selling myself short. And the advise I've received invaluable.

The 1916 I pulled out of this trike did have twin webers. The barrells pistons and valves were all replaced due to warranty issues. But the exhaust- those cannons with a thumb sized hole at the end restricted the performance so much I'd suggest that it isnt fair comparing this ea81 to it. (see pic below) However I have ridden another 1916 trike (manual though).



Also the exhaust being two straight out pipes from the ea doesnt give me an accurate feel for the performance.

Some observations though I feel so far-

The Ea is much smoother, idles perfect, starts easier, is comparable but maybe a little less take off under 2000rpm, has noticable improvement to mid range 2-3000 rpm (more noticable torque)and much better high revs power say over 3500rpm where it seems to take off nicely when held in gear. I only ever took the 1916 over 4000 rpm a few times because it felt uncomfortable doing it.

I am most satisfied at this point especially because I expected oil leaks and more dramas. Thats my lack of confidence- understandable. The 1916 I had deserved looking at and developing and went to a good home for that. At similar expense of that sale I got that bit more power, lovely torque increase where I wanted it and it matches so well to the type 3 auto with very similar ratios as the Leone 3 speed auto of the 80's.

Finally, I acknowledge this conversion isnt that popular. The EJ much more desirable by most and advanced. But we should keep this in perspective. I'm 56 years old and an engine easily worked on at the side of the road is a priority. Added to that an engine that gives me that extra ooomph at a reasonable cost, less maintenance and will tow my Guppy van a little easier it suits me fine.

The real test for me will be economy. The 1916 got 26 mpg without the roof, 23 mpg with the roof and 19 mpg roof and towing 450 kgms van. Gross of the trike is 540kgms van is 450 kgms so about the all up weight of a brumby the ea came out of. So even though its an auto I'm expecting I'll use much less fuel especially cruising with one throat open on the carbie after a dyno tune with the right jets.

Some more pics of VW trikes. These two are also Panthers. From Wodonga.





A porsche I think...










The roof badges I used I made from zero house numbers alloy from mitre 10 and two boot stickers for the Carolina Panthers NFL.





The roof had to be fastened to the frame with patio bolts (hardened steel lockable) and tray clamps the altter to stop rattling.



The Guppy van. all the conveiences. We have an annex , shower cubicle with hot shower and porta dunny.

not long now

Tweety is home.



bare in mind the engine cant use the secondary weber 32/36 throat. so all video is with the primary thraot only. but I'm very impressed.

It's all good. Can I ask why you can't use the secondary throat on the carby?
Are you using a standard manifold? Mine's one that Joel actually spotted on ebay which had been modified to take a Weber directly. It was only recently I learned that the weird thing with the bullet connector on the manifold is a thermo fan switch!

Glad it all came together for you. Those finned ducts look great by the way. They look like they are meant to be there and look kind of mean too. I approve.

Thanks tristan. The weber is brand new bolted onto standard manifold with supplied adapter. It was suppose to be jetted for the ea81 but have my doubts the right jets are used. I purchased some more and tried 125, 130, 135 etc and still it seems to flood when that secondary comes in. it will also backfire. A mechanic firend of mine thinks its is a blockage but the carbie has been pulled off so many times I have given up and need a dyno anyway. So that is on hold.

When I removed the flywheel of the Subie to replace it with the flex palte for the VW auto I didnt at the time realise I was also removing the timing marks. So I had to confirm that TDC was indeed when a notch on the crankcase front pully lined up with the two engine halves line. Then luckily the pulley circumference was a convenient 360mm. Meaning one degree of timing to one millimeter. This enabled me to time the engine to say 8-10 degrees. The timing seems perfect bUT I would like to dyne it to fix the carbie problem and confirm where the best timing is for ebst perforance for premium unleaded fuel.

Hence not worroed too much just yet.

tweety wrote:Thanks tristan. The weber is brand new bolted onto standard manifold with supplied adapter. It was suppose to be jetted for the ea81 but have my doubts the right jets are used. I purchased some more and tried 125, 130, 135 etc and still it seems to flood when that secondary comes in. it will also backfire. A mechanic firend of mine thinks its is a blockage but the carbie has been pulled off so many times I have given up and need a dyno anyway. So that is on hold.

When I removed the flywheel of the Subie to replace it with the flex palte for the VW auto I didnt at the time realise I was also removing the timing marks. So I had to confirm that TDC was indeed when a notch on the crankcase front pully lined up with the two engine halves line. Then luckily the pulley circumference was a convenient 360mm. Meaning one degree of timing to one millimeter. This enabled me to time the engine to say 8-10 degrees. The timing seems perfect bUT I would like to dyne it to fix the carbie problem and confirm where the best timing is for ebst perforance for premium unleaded fuel.

Hence not worroed too much just yet.

Sounds like we both had similar problems.
I was having carb problems for a few reasons. They boiled down to this:
* Too much upstream pressure.
* Incorrect jetting.
* Differences in needle and seat design.
* Sticking secondary butterfly due to manifold gasket interference.
* Escaped charcoal in the canister valve causing it to hold open and cause rich condition (Maybe lower vac triggering the power valve?)
*Original power valve assembly shimmed to open at higher vacuum.
*Misc vacuum leaks.

I didn't use an adapter because I couldn't get one. I ordered one from the U.S. but it was wrong so I got Sh*tty. Only a few months ago I learned Autobarn sells them.

The jetting I found on ausubaru seems to have reined in the richness but as it's not on the road yet I can't vouch for it. Mine is a very minor variant of it. It is:

pri idle: 50
sec idle: 55
pri main: 132.5
sec main: 130
pri corr: 160
sec corr: 165

It seems to be quite responsive and has good low down torque. I have another slight difference in my setup though. A thick aluminium spacer so my Holley's throttle linkage could clear the manifold in an underslung setup, plus I'm using one of those air filter adapters with a Mazda OEM UFO cleaner.

interesting. some jet sizes I got from weber were recommended by ausubaru forumites and I tried them and it improved a bit. I just cant be bothered now to fiddle with it. So am waiting on a few busness cheques to come in and off to the dyno.

VW performance Centre Croydon Vic has a wizz kid - Daniel and I've relied on him before. Besides I want to know the engine output!

finished. here it is....


www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXwh4z8d66o

Gotta be happy with that 👍
Especially if its only running on the primary throat too.

Any reason you went for the balance pipe on the headers?

thanks Joel,

too much throttle cuts the engine. flooding or blockage. but vw performance centre gets it thurday week for a fix and dyno. will post results. this morning went out, two squirts of the throttle and immediate start and idle smooth in 5 seconds. nice. motor seems strong.

I sought advice from the ausubaru forum on the exhaust. seems subie engine run better with the balance pipe.

a good example is this pic.



of course I wouldnt know if it would make a difference but I'm really happy with the note it has now. And a bonus is low revs ther is a nice rumble not unlike a small v8. think I'll evenually chrome those 4 tail pipes, there is a flange at their beginning to easily take them off.

The bog is concerning. With a Weber it can be pretty much everything. I swear every single one of them behaves differently.

Definitely have to watch the revs. When working on the throttle linkage I've had it less than perfect more than once causing it not to return and had to kill the engine because it just wants to rev to the moon! the best thing that a person can do to those motors is remove the Hitachi carb that they come with. Horrible things.

edit: 1000th post woo!

tweety wrote:of course I wouldnt know if it would make a difference but I'm really happy with the note it has now.

If you want to experiment slip a piece of tin between those flanges on the balance tube which will block it off and see if you notice any difference in sound/performance.

The old man had a V8 302 XB GS Falcon coupe back in the 80s which had a factory balance pipe and it kept causing the system to rust out.
After several replacements they put a new one in without the balance tube.
It had a heaps nicer note and stopped rotting out after that but performance didn't change.

thanks for that tip Joel re: balance pipe.. I'll keep it in mind.

getting tune up Thursday. hoping for a good result there.

A better youtube vid might be on the cards maybe with some music this time.

for what it is worth this is my experience with progressives

idles and mains
Primary should be one size smaller than secondary
50 - 55
130 - 135

Air
Primary should be one size smaller
165 - 160

This is because the secondary should be richer and the air is letting air in - not fuel, so it is a size smaller

It's one of those things, Bizarre. I read up so much on the Webers. official documentation, book, that sort of thing and scoured the internet for what people do. The only thing I learned is than nobody can agree on the best way to tune them.

The airs pretty much control when and how much the mains come in. Also don't forget when the secondary opens the vacuum drops so the secondaries have to compensate for the mixture change. I agree with what you said, but I also have to say that my original jetting which was in the ballpark of "by the book" was disastrously out of whack. So I took a shot in the dark and tried one of the jettings I found on Ausubaru, which I think I posted earlier. I didn't get the jetting at all. However I will say it seemed to work quite well. No belching smoke at higher RPM and the idle is a lot more precise now. Assuming the fuel hasn't evaporated off from sitting for ages, even cold it starts with a quick crank and no throttle.Not even a pump.
Don't get it one bit. Maybe I was just lucky. But it worked. My only theory is it has something to do with the horribly restrictive manifolds.

got tune up yesterday.

the carbie was working correctly. the kick down wire from the gearbox went to the switch then to the negative of the coil.....wrong! suppose to be positive.

Hence squeezing that throttle an electrical cut out would occur.

have 76 hp at the flywheel and 60 at the wheels. the auto zaps a fair bit out of it.

more importantly the result now?

achieving around 29mpg - very good and thats city and country driving.

the surpise was the howling the exhaust makes when engine exceeds 4000 rpm. lovely!

another video in couple of weeks. great ocean road Vic

tweety wrote:got tune up yesterday.

the carbie was working correctly. the kick down wire from the gearbox went to the switch then to the negative of the coil.....wrong! suppose to be positive.

Hence squeezing that throttle an electrical cut out would occur.

have 76 hp at the flywheel and 60 at the wheels. the auto zaps a fair bit out of it.

more importantly the result now?

achieving around 29mpg - very good and thats city and country driving.

the surpise was the howling the exhaust makes when engine exceeds 4000 rpm. lovely!

another video in couple of weeks. great ocean road Vic

Did you do any internal work to the engine? That's a great figure, and altogether pretty damn good from the wheels too.

For metric people likeme 29mpg is about 8.1L/100km. I don't know how much a trike usually uses so I can't comment 😂

having your kickdown on the coil - would kind of do that, yeah. Glad it's all sorted. Depending on where you tour to I might even end up spotting you somewhere!

Tristan, might be closer to 28mpg around 9.7 L/100kms. far cry from 13L/100kms.

My trike has a lot of wind drag too, far more than say a beetle or modern car.

The histroy of the engine is brief. It is out of a 1992 Brumby - 19 years old and owned by an elderly mechanic from Wodonga

Rex McCartney Motors

14 Hovell Street
Wodonga VIC 3689, Australia
‎
(02) 6056 1197

Rex owned the Brumby for 17 years and recoed the engine fully about 80,000 kms ago maybe less (he cant recall). The only shortcut he took was to put rings in it that dont lock, meaning they rotate and that's ok but every two months or so as you start it, it will give a puff of smoke as the rings are lined up. He told me it wont go through oil.

He was right and I sensed his honesty. It would have been a lot of work if he wasnt.

I was a little disappointed with the output. It has the weber, exhaust that is I'd suggest pretty free flowing, the balance pipe, electronic ignition, new 8.8mm leads. But that ride on Thursday was the test because it was frustrating knowing that when you squeezed the throttle is would cut out. Being able to floor it and see how she performs was magic.

The exhaust howl over 4000 rpm is something else! And for it to run up to 110kph in second is a handy gear.

Perhaps this account is how I feel.

_________________________________-


The leather of the gloves seem like a part of your skin as you slide your fingers through them. But this is all automatic, all the minor actions as you prepare yourself for some fun. For your attention is frozen on a yellow three wheeled wonder called a trike. Big deal some might say. For me “tweety” is a big deal.



But what others think and say makes no impact as you finish waving that fleecy lined cloth over the chrome of the twin headlight peaking above the girder forks. You had the dream all night but now its reality, its happening as you slide your butt onto the seat. You feel just millimetres from the ground but the custom roof is actually higher than common cars.
You give the throttle a squirt and that Subie 81 engine fires into life, rumbling, a soothing jiggle down to your nuts….oh yeh!. The jiggle turns into a throb from that twin 'erect' exhaust each of the four tail pipes emitting its own throbbing gurgle but in unison.



You allow it to settle to a nice idle then finally your wife has arrived and you both ride off. The Subie flatty sounds a bit loud as the trike weaves towards the windy tarred road at a hamlet called Boho ahead then a burst of throttle and we are away. The higher the revs the quieter that engine becomes. Knowing the trike is highly unlikely to ever roll, with all that weight down low, you set about flaunting with the bends….oh wow! . You approach a bend that you know is uphill as it straightens and has an advisory sign of 25 kph….you take it at 50 then at the apex you pull that throttle hard on and the kickdown to second is instant that causes the front wheel to want to lift…..yeeehah!. You know if it does lift the trike will cease turning so its perfect…..the fact is that too much power and rear end weight on a VW trike needs more concentration for this reason, but the ea81 is just right- measured power, controllable response, not heavy- spot on.

The trike remains in second and as you climb that hill about 300 metres long you reach 100kph and the engine howls at around 5000rpm with a delight you haven’t felt for decades. At the top of the crest the throttle is backed off and third is automatically selected but even though this little gem of a motor is only 1781 cc you get a small shove in the back leaping you forward a bit- oh nice.
You pull up in your garage. Its dark now and the green led lights above the engine shine on that motor reminding you of what you have. An engine not remarkable but adequate, reliable and simple. You take a moment to back off the timing 2 degrees to end that little pinging you got ascending that hill and grab that fleecy polishing cloth to place on the chromed headlights….then you back off- its done, its just what I wanted…and no need to polish anymore at this time.

Tweety is resting.

if you see me riding with the van on tow hail me down Tristan. I'll take you for a spin. Tony

That was an amazing account and I'm a little envious. I'm over that way every so often. The life of a border dweller. Have to travel somewhere to get anything done 😁 I really like they yellow too. It's sort of like the 1970's Ford yellow to my eye. Stands out but not at all harsh.

I'm really curious about how your towing goes too.

thanks Tristan. if you are coming over we are only 45 minutes from Sheppaton or 1 hr 20 minutes from Cobram.

I enjoy writing and have been so stoked with the result. am getting 31 mpg now or 9l/100kms compared to 13.

That shade of yellow is Safety Yellow a gel coat colour.. same colour as the speed advisory signs on the road. To think I was going to have hot pink non metallic. reason was I always liked pink Toranas when I was younger. glad I didnt.

have towed the van a few kms. tows well. we are going away for 3 days soon. will post the result, economy etc.

good to see it s working well , interesting power figures just had 2 of my busses dynoed 2080 type 4 stock heads dual webers 77hp @wheels and 2110 dual 44's 96hp@wheels but man your fuel consumption kills mine , I suppose you get that with a bloody light trike ..nice one 🙂

yeh Klaus re consumption. and my auto zaps a lot of power out of it.

Also compared to a Subaru Leone automatic. gear ratios much the same, diff the same ratio, only difference is the tyres. mine runs a whopping large 275/60/R15, leone standard is 175/70/R15. 20% smaller. trike weighs 600 kgms max, leone 1100 kgms.

So at 100kph ea81 is revving at 2900rpm. leone probably 3500. Its close to perfect but when these tyres wear out soon I'll revert to the previous size 295/50/R15 5% less in circumference and rev a little higher. At the moment the trike will peak in second at 130kph- way too high for my needs. Also overtaking at 100-110kph you can feel it isnt as responsive as it could be. just a small change I'll do. it'll still be 15% higher geared than the leone.

Economy is important to me so 31 mpg is great.

you got impressive hp out of those engines.

Firstly I'm happy to mention "Tweety" trike won January trike of the month in 'trike talk' USA.

For those interested the story of my trike roof, its design, engineering etc is to be read in Roadrider "cruiser and trike" magasine coming out soon in newsagents. Is at the printers today 9/1/2012.

This will be my second story published, the first being the trike close to as it was when purchased.

So a third story mentioning the subaru ea81 conversion to VW type 3 automatic along with other mods like the windscreen, functioning heater, tyre options (psssst! Tweety is to get whitewall tyres to essentuate the "Rod" look in about 4 weeks time...on order) will be a third story for their consideration.

I have a long term plan to write a story on campers and small caravans for trikes and motorcycles.