Have Ford lost the plot?? STILL...

FORD in the USA are discontinuing the Crown Victoria which has been used as Taxis and Police cars for many many years...
??

The Holden Statesman Police Cars were delivered to 3 US Police forces this month.. Many More are ordered...

Ford Australia has been losing sales with their Territory for years as they haven't had a Diesel engine until Next Month...

The NEW Diesel engine [as advertised on TV] is actually the OLD diesel engine from the Land Rover Discovery...
they had to wait until they got a new engine...
they should have had a diesel Territory 5 years ago... IMHO..

and 4 cylinder Falcons are coming... ??

Lee

Lee, you are right.

Ford's marketing arm (or planning) are a completely clueless bunch.
It is a shame, because they are slightly less crap motor vehicle than Holdens.

If the economy keeps going like it is,Ford,Holden and Toyota will stop making cars here and just import them.
Thats already prodicted to happen in 5 years.
A real shame,in the long run not good for the ecomomy.

Ford have definitely lost the plot, but c'mon Marcus... in what universe is any Ford less crap than a Holden ???

😉

Toymota and Ford are both in trouble here, but Holden is in slightly better shape as they're now the design house for GM globally. The locally designed VE Commodore chassis (amongst other things) is used in a lot of other cars... the Chevy Camaro for example.

But yes... ax'ing the second best selling Ford makes zero sense...next they'll be dropping the Ranger F100/150 !!!

😂

I wish they'd sell the F-trucks here !
It s#@ts me when you see the price in the US and what we have to pay here for an imported one !
I've just come back from the states and a friend got a F350 fully loaded for the 40G mark. Shame you'd have to add at least a 1 in front of the price locally.

Dave, I think your EFi playing up is due in part to the fact that it is parked in the vicinity of a Commodore and has caught an incurable disease.

😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

vassy66T1 wrote:Dave, I think your EFi playing up is due in part to the fact that it is parked in the vicinity of a Commodore and has caught an incurable disease.

😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Heh, nah - I'm sure it's the Ford injectors that I'm using !!!

They're a Bosch part, but have little Ford logo's cast into the plastic... I just _knew_ I should've filed them off...

🤓

68AutoBug wrote:FORD in the USA are discontinuing the Crown Victoria which has been used as Taxis and Police cars for many many years...
??

The Holden Statesman Police Cars were delivered to 3 US Police forces this month.. Many More are ordered...

Lee

Hi Lee,

I took this photo nearly 2 years ago at Bathurst races, the Holdens has been planned for a long time to become cop cars in the US of A.




Kev

OK, after Volksy's I'm Holden guy and happily admit it... but that just looks cr@p !!!

Cop car's need to look mean IMHO...

bugboymatt wrote:I wish they'd sell the F-trucks here !
It s#@ts me when you see the price in the US and what we have to pay here for an imported one !
I've just come back from the states and a friend got a F350 fully loaded for the 40G mark. Shame you'd have to add at least a 1 in front of the price locally.

The F350 will not meet the new ADR rules for emissons here,
plus they would fail ANCAP crash testing.😂

The Crown Victoria platform is an ancient relic which had to be discontinued. Right up until the end it was still built on a ladder chassis with a live rear axle. Even for US police forces, this is now a bit too old fashioned. The new Ford competitor for the Police market is a version of the Taurus, which is available with all-wheel-drive and an EcoBoost turbo V6. I'm willing to bet that it's far cheaper to produce than the Crown Vic, which is a crucially important factor.

The 4 cylinder turbo Falcon is actually a good idea I think, because it will help the Falcon improve in fuel economy, which is one of the car's biggest weaknesses compared to competitors in the market.

The real problem which Ford Australia has is a chronic lack of volume due to the fact that they have no major export markets. Holden is exporting police cars to the US, plus other models to the Middle East and South Africa. The fact that all of the Commodore variants can be easily built in LHD is a huge benefit, which the Falcon does not have.

Without LHD there is no obvious export market for large cars. The large car market in Australia is far too small to really support local manufacturers. Holden has roughly a 60% market share of large car sales here, but even so this is not enough volume to make the plant viable in the long term, which is why local manufacturing of the Cruze is so important. Ford Australia did possibly have the option a couple of years ago to manufacture the Focus in Australia but they chose to produce the Territory instead.

Tragically, the real problem is that Australians simply don't buy large cars anymore. The large car segment only makes up 8% of total vehicle sales. Small cars have a 25% share of the market, and so do SUVs. This is why Holden have moved towards the small car market with the Cruze and Ford have decided to chase the SUV market with Territory.

Apart from the engine department? Good job keeping that old donk up to the task for so many years.

I was a slow learner. I bought 2 falcons. An EF and a BA. Both heaps of junk. Never ever again. I have a friend equally as stupid who bought 2 Territories. (one work one family car) both heaps of crap. If it is made of plastic it has fallen off at least once. Ford will most certainly die. And about time. Quality crap exports nil (that I know of) I reckon to see which large car is best you have to look at the taxi market. People who live in their cars and put millions of dollars of kms on them. Holden ruled with Kingswood until Commodore came along. XD, XE, XF falcons ruled. Since then falcon has been losing market share hand over fist. Very few falcons around now. Probably more tarago cabs around here than POS falcons.

I thought holden had killed off statesman, or was that just the caprice? Why the hell would you want one for a cop car? To give the crims some more rear leg room? That pic is just a commodore yes?

The long wheelbase WM is still in production but the Statesman name has been discontinued, so now they are all called Caprice. The US Police cars, including the black and white one in that photo are based on the Caprice because the police market over there requires larger cars. They need the space to enable the front seats to slide all the way back and still have room for a barrier/partition behind them, and then room to be able to easily get suspects in and out of the back. The US Police models are highly specialised for their intended market, with lots of changes including a different shifter and centre console and a foot operated parking brake to make room for their police computers and equipment between the front seats. They also get vinyl floors and a vinyl rear seat. Also note in the photo the 18x8" steel rims with centre caps.

BUT! Is the suspension set up with absolutely no rear grip so the movie cars oversteer everywhere 🤪

Not sure, I've only driven them up to about 30km/h! They run 235/50R18s all around though so they should grip pretty well.

The New York Yellow Taxis [crown victoria] are being phased out by ford...
and Nissan has won with their odd looking v0400
modified panel van with sliding doors...
4 can sit in the rear
2 litre 4 cylinder engine..

Lee

Lee, my XR6 I would get 340ks out of a tank of fuel city running heaps of stop start , in out of the car.
my new vw passat wagon I do the same run 997 out of a tank

two of my clients just canceled there orders of 7 fords after showing them my new VW and showing them my fuel dockets.

+ the VW is a safer car IMO

ford started losing the plot since the mid 80s I recon, now they have full blown dementia.

Ford...... it has been known as a crapy cheap family car, my mum owned a BA Falcon and it is a very poorly built vehicle. they have no power, sloppy handling and extremely perthetic fuel consumption.I wouldn't really care if they stuff up. There product is rubbish.

crown victoria = cheap, heavy, slow, nasty and old. had to go.... REALLY had to go.

Why do you think team Vodaphone jumped ship? No support from ford even though they were the best ford team. There are so many acronyms for the word "ford" it could have it's own forum lol.

Not a ford man - never have been and never will be. Working in the auto industry they simply feel cheap and even the fpv models feel cheapish.....

What really cracks me up is that some of you guys think Holden make a decent car. 😂😂😂

I have only VW in the stable at my place now.

There will be a special ward on the nursing homes for Holden lovers as they have shown obvious signs of early dementia.

mate holden and ford are both the same sh#t. Im a toyota and volkswagen man

Awww c'mon. My 1963 EH Holden is a cool car.

I prefer the Beetle as a daily driver though.

Call me cynic but I reckon that within a year Holden will declare that they sell more Commodores/Statesmans in the USA and will move the production line there.

vassy66T1 wrote:What really cracks me up is that some of you guys think Holden make a decent car. 😂😂😂

I have only VW in the stable at my place now.

There will be a special ward on the nursing homes for Holden lovers as they have shown obvious signs of early dementia.

Holden haven't been Holden for a very long time. They just buy design rights and source parts from other manufactures.

They had good and they had bad. They could of been a much better car (aimed at 90- onward) if their plastic and rubber they used wasn't so crap. Basically you can't drive them in the sun or it will all crumble on you 😂

vlad01 wrote:Holden haven't been Holden for a very long time. They just buy design rights and source parts from other manufactures.

I hope you're joking, right? GM Holden actually design many more cars than they manufacture! The Fisherman's Bend engineering headquarters designed and engineered the VE/WM's Zeta platform, then they modified their platform to create the current generation Camaro. Fisherman's Bend also designed the hatch version of the current Cruze, which is now being built in several plants around the world and is being launched here at the end of the year. As well as this, they have significant input into a whole bunch of global GM cars. Holden do far more engineering and design work in Australia than pretty much anyone else.

In any case, even if Fisherman's Bend didn't design anything, they certainly wouldn't have to 'buy' designs from anyone else. If required GM could produce any of their global car designs here to suit the local market, from a Barina Spark or an Astra to a Chevy Silverado. You talk about Holden as if it's some kind of independent Australian company, when in fact they've been owned by GM since the 1930s, well before the first Holden-badged car was manufactured. Back in those days they used to assemble and build bodies for Chevrolets and Buicks.

bus914 wrote:Call me cynic but I reckon that within a year Holden will declare that they sell more Commodores/Statesmans in the USA and will move the production line there.

I believe GMH have put too much into designing the Police cars for the USA , and this wouldn't have happened if they were to be made in the USA...
remembering USA Auto makers were in BIG BIG trouble financially not long ago....

On the other hand... Ford USA should have been designing a NEW car for the POLICE and TAXIS in USA... ??????
Have they been asleep the past 10 years..???

Oddly enough, Years ago I went thru the Adelaide factory of Mitsubishi when they were building great Magnas there...
RHD & LHD cars being build one after another and truck loads of them going to the Docks...
There was nothing wrong with them... just the stupid talk about closing down all the time???

LEE

I did read recently that FORD Australia designed the Ford Ranger 4WD Utes etc..
and then had them made overseas...????
Thailand??

LEE

PS: Many people don't know where the car they are driving was made these days...
My Brother in Law bought a new Captiva diesel recently...
I 'll bet He has no idea it wasn't made by Holden in Australia...

waveman1500 wrote:

vlad01 wrote:Holden haven't been Holden for a very long time. They just buy design rights and source parts from other manufactures.

I hope you're joking, right? GM Holden actually design many more cars than they manufacture! The Fisherman's Bend engineering headquarters designed and engineered the VE/WM's Zeta platform, then they modified their platform to create the current generation Camaro. Fisherman's Bend also designed the hatch version of the current Cruze, which is now being built in several plants around the world and is being launched here at the end of the year. As well as this, they have significant input into a whole bunch of global GM cars. Holden do far more engineering and design work in Australia than pretty much anyone else.

In any case, even if Fisherman's Bend didn't design anything, they certainly wouldn't have to 'buy' designs from anyone else. If required GM could produce any of their global car designs here to suit the local market, from a Barina Spark or an Astra to a Chevy Silverado. You talk about Holden as if it's some kind of independent Australian company, when in fact they've been owned by GM since the 1930s, well before the first Holden-badged car was manufactured. Back in those days they used to assemble and build bodies for Chevrolets and Buicks.

I wasn't talking about the VE. Yes I know they sell them as the Camaro.

I was referring to the VB- VN ish? turana, gemini, astra, omega, vectra etc.. they were based of the Open body and chassis.

Had a good chat about to a vehicle manufacture warranty consultant when I was in Swiss. Yep 🙂 my speculation were right. The omega "commodore" is pretty new here. Over there its like a 1986-2003. Holden camera what ever its called is based of the omega too.

just looked up omega. I lol'd. Is that a VT I see in there?😂

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Omega

vlad01 wrote:I was referring to the VB- VN ish? turana, gemini, astra, omega, vectra etc.. they were based of the Open body and chassis.

Yes, they're all based on GM Global cars. Why is this a surprise? It's not like Holden "aren't Holden anymore". All Holdens have shared design elements and even architectures with other GM products. Let's have an example! What car is this?



It's a Chevrolet Fleetline. Now, compare to the 48/215 Holden.



Notice any similarities? These two aren't actually the same car, but the original Holden design began as a design for a compact Chevrolet which never made it to production. The point is that a global car is what you make it, and the Aussie workers at Holden have been localising global GM products since the very beginning. The Torana may have started out as a Vauxhall, but it was Holden who stretched the nose to make it long enough for a six cylinder engine. Similarly, the VN-VT Holden Commodore models are actually wider than the European Opel/Vauxhall versions. The engines and drivetrains are local, the bodyshell is modified and they are manufactured and assembled here in Australia.

To try and drag my post back on topic, Ford Australia are of course the same. The Falcon started out as a US model and was progressively localised more and more. The Falcon six cylinder engine which is still used today has evolved from that humble six cylinder which came out from the US in the first Aussie built Falcon. It is a brilliant engine, especially in XR6 Turbo form, but tragically it is the last Australian-developed engine still in production. The Holden 5 litre was replaced by the Gen 3 back in the VT days and the Holden-developed version of the Buick 3.8 litre V6 ceased to be with the introduction of the Alloytec V6 in the VZ. So, the Falcon lump is the last man standing. Unfortunately it's future doesn't look bright beyond the introduction of Euro 5 emissions in a couple of years' time.

yes the point exactly. Nearly all people recognize Holden as being a strictly Aussie dreamed up, designed and built cars.

People often get offended when you point out the facts of their design history. But thats fan boys for ya. Our family is a ford family with the exception of me of course.

I am the only one who has something besides a ford. The last good ford we had was a 78 Cortina. Dam that was reliable and went well. I haven't seen a single ford without serious engine problems since the Cortina. Every one of the 6 or 7 ford we have gone through had head cracking and gasket problem and they all leaked oil like a sieve from day one. I bought a VP when I just finished high school and its still my first get around car and I do 600-1000 ks a week. Goes like a shower of shit on steroids with the body of an old man 😂 never had engine problems, no leaks, stays clean and never lets me down (well maybe manifold gasket went, no biggy). Oh and plenty of torque to boot.

I definitely made the right choice for a get around car. Plan to buy another one, white this time to solve the paint fade/peal problem 🥲😀 I only want to buy another one for cosmetic reasons and I want to move to ecotech as they are somewhat better than the EV6(aka sII buick?)

I did my apprenticeship with Ford in the 90s.They were doing strange things then and before that.
The EB11,ED,EF11 and EL Falcons wernt that bad,and at the time built better than Commodore I thought.Their factory gas for those latter Falcons was great for the company,being used for Taxis.
There was talk back then that the Falcon would be phased out,and the Saw ass(Tauras) would take over.I remember pulling the subframes and Autos on those heaps under warranty.
Because they are were ridiculously ugly, sales were shit.
The talk back then was Falcon out,Tauras,Mondeo,Focus and Explorer in(and Transit).
Which meant all new tooling and diagnostics and training.
Then all of a sudden,the AU appeared.Oh Ow.
I really think it was done(new AU series)so that Ford could still race V8s in Supercar.
I used to be a proud Ford man,I still own a XC Fairmont.
It was my Grandfathers,he was a Ford man.
Ford is now embaressing.
GM isnt far behind saying,
Hope Our Luck Doesnt End Now.It will

Yep I wouldn't buy either now. 96 is my limit on holden and 79? I think for ford.

I drove a SV6 VE for a few days in newcastle. was alright but lacked throttle control-ability. was impossible to curse at a consistent speed and was forever changing gears and had a rather large throttle response margin.

Sport shift mode proved a bit better. They also lacked the bottom end oomph. I much prefer the ecotec and pre ecotec engines as they have better characteristics.
The alloytec being chev based makes a nice sound at top end but being chev based doesn't fill me with confidence.

For me I wouldn't buy any ford after escort and cortina and for holden I wouldn't buy anything besides VP-VR and VS possibly a gemini or turana with ecotec fitted 😁

bloody gemini and turana rust like a coke can in the sea. 🙄 but a nice and simple looking car none the less.

I want to drive my half bro's XY GT and see what that is like, should be good since it is a 71 car.

well vlad if you want an ecotec you need a vs commy,but saying that,in my earlier years i was all holden ,then in my 30s to mid 40`s i was a ford man with xd's xf's and an ea and ebII ,then i had a drive of my sons vs commy and like vlad says it went heaps better than the ford and now i have a vs commy as well,and to end my rant or rave or whatever it is ,try buying a falcon station wagon as they have been phased out now...

I almost bought a practically NOS white VS berlina. Was immaculate condition and was only 43,000k on it 👍 Deceased estate.🤓

I want to get either an acclaim or berlina VS in white paint.

White paint lasts a long time, the berlina and acclaim have IRS and shit all over the live axle model in the handling department and not to mention IRS diffs are easy to buy as reco units, no one seems to touch the live axle diffs and I have only been able to find average to poor used ones for my VP.

Belina is a bit better as the chrome trim on the seals acts like sunscreen. The holdens were renown for crap crumbly seals. At only 2000 buks for a complete NOS seal set its a steal!

I had a chat to the local mech that I buy my stuff off about my later plan to buy a white VS and rebuilt it ground up to become a 0K car. He goes "Do it! just do" "it will be a great car"

??? not what I expected coming from a valiant guy. I gather they last a long time? 400k +

I saw a red acclaim on fleabay with apparently original engine 837,000Km 🤪 Is that even possible?

Ford has been LOSING 25% of sales because they stopped
building the LPG Falcon because they were working on a NEW LPG system...

Yes... They LOST 25% of Falcon sales they couldn't really afford to...??

Other companies can phase out one and start another around the same time or stock UP with old models.....
. Not STOP all together???

the New LPG Falcon gets slightly MORE Power than the Petrol version...

BUT they LOST Sales... waiting and engineering etc...

some really dumb leadership there....???

or they will Disappear from Australian manufacturing...

If You can Sell a Vehicle... then Keep making them.... ????

LEE

well, they did keep flogging the dead horse longer than you would imagine in the panelvan and ute market. They were flogging those xfs for a long long time, long after the sedan had gone. if they had a wagon today I think it would literal holden in the fleet market easy. But that dont mean it would make money.

68AutoBug wrote:Ford has been LOSING 25% of sales because they stopped
building the LPG Falcon because they were working on a NEW LPG system...

Lee, Ford stopped building the old E-Gas Falcon because it was outlawed by the new emissions laws. The E-Gas system didn't comply with the current level of emissions standards when they were introduced and it would've cost Ford too much money to bring it up to spec. The new liquid-injection system which they have now is a huge leap forwards in technology, it's possibly the most advanced LPG car which you can buy anywhere in the world.

if they had a wagon today I think it would OUTSELL holden in the fleet market easy.

wrote that reply on the phone, stupid predictive text.

i mean the wagon fleet because I dont think the commodore wagon is the traditional "big roomy box on the back of a sedan" that they used to be.

waveman1500 wrote:

68AutoBug wrote:Ford has been LOSING 25% of sales because they stopped
building the LPG Falcon because they were working on a NEW LPG system...

Lee, Ford stopped building the old E-Gas Falcon because it was outlawed by the new emissions laws. The E-Gas system didn't comply with the current level of emissions standards when they were introduced and it would've cost Ford too much money to bring it up to spec. The new liquid-injection system which they have now is a huge leap forwards in technology, it's possibly the most advanced LPG car which you can buy anywhere in the world.

I read where Hyundai has been selling a liquid injection LPG car overseas but didn't sell it in Australia as they would have to pay royalties to an Australian company who engineered it.

LEE

interesting when You don't know the full story [ford e-gas]

I went shopping for a new car a little while ago.
Wanted something very quick and very comfortable, had to be good for long drive and not too plastic.
Looked at golf gtis, HSV's, subaru sti's, and merc amg's.
Subaru was deadset horrible, the vw didn't do it for me and the HSV was too bogan.
Even took a Audi s5 for a run- the most over rated, tinniest peice of rattly crap I've ever been in.
Very nearly lashed out on a AMG except the salesman was a wanker and made some statements that simply wern't true. Car was okay, but really not good value and outragously expensive to maintain longterm.
In frustration I ended up taking some fords for a testdrive and was gobbsmacked- bought a new supercharged GT with all the toys and absolutely love it- couldn't be happier. Tons of grunt at any speed, brilliant auto, good interior and rides great. Does everything well with no fuss.
Been quite amused by mates who insist that fords are rubbish and I should have bought some highly stressed, overpriced euro barge that would leave you wrecked after a long drive.

have you ever driven a ford focus? holy shit!, worst car I have ever driven since the XF

Just made you angry driving it 😬

Found out my car ain't too bad 👍 drag raced my crap old manual VP v6 against my friends mildly moded VY sv6 and I got in front with my 2k rpm launch (didn't want to blow my diff as its hanging by a thread)
and we stayed lined up until I slowly dropped back by 1/4 car length during gear shifts 😂

lol only lost by 1/4 car length 🤪 yeah I think I'll keep it for some time yet.