How many horses will I have?

Hi all,
I have an engine in the works at the moment. It is a 1600 tp bug engine with dual 36 carbs and an engle 110 cam. What sort of rough hp would I be lookIng at?

Cheers

A 1600 T/P with a 110 cam won,t pull the skin off a Custard down low, also it won't do much at the top end either.
I would take a guess and say maximum HP would be 70 BHP at the hubs.........


Harsh but true and u asked ......🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Whats all this negativity about 1600's with that cam and twins?? They are a good reliable combo and have plenty of pull if your looking for just a bit more than standard. When i had my baja, If i had to choose between the 1916 i had and the 1600's my mates both had i would happily settle for the 1600. As i have said before if it can turn 33" mudders in the sand all day and not even look like being underpowered then it's not too bad. Bottom line is, mate... as log as you don't wanna go racing and blow the doors off vl's it'll be fine. To be honest 70bhp is probably a stretch, I reckon it'd be more like 60bhp depending on heads, but don't knock it till you try it. It doesn't sound like much but it will be a noticeable difference. Good luck with it. By the way, i'm no expert or engine builder, I'm just basing my opinion on experience with 3 of those 1600/110cam combos, the dyno results and performance from them.

Mick.

?

Nothing harsh about it - I would be stoked with 70! It's going to beat my current standard 1300 sp with buggered rings that smokes like a chimney and fills the car with petrol fumes.

personally I doubt you would get 70 at the wheels

A 1600 gets 40 ponies at the whels if you are lucky - seen too many dyno days for anyone to doubt this
A set of dual IDF 36's, cam and exhaust will add 25-30%. 50% if you are REAL careful with the build and do head work

That is a BLOODY big increase for little input and it will be BLOODY noticeable

Well, I'm fitting twin 36mm IDFs and a sidewinder exhaust to my 1600TP. Hopefully it'll be jetted and tuned on Monday. Only stock internals, but I'm hoping to get a nice performance increase. The horsepower figure is just a number, it's the driving enjoyment that counts!

prob around 55 to 60 depending on the dyno

Just check out the newest VWMA Dyno mania story , They seem to have more accurate dyno HP number s
🤪😂🤪

Even 60 would be good. I know it won't be a track weapon any time soon, but that bit extra poke will be nice. Last drive I went on I was struggling to keep up with the stock kombis, while the bugs and type 3 s left me for dead.

HoneyAbba wrote:I would take a guess and say maximum HP would be 70 BHP at the hubs.........


Harsh but true and u asked ......🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

That combo with standard heads might just make 70hp but thats at the flywheel.
would be lucky to hit over 50 at the treads.

But that is heaps in a bug though.

My guess is you would be a winner if you manage to get 50 HP at the wheels by just doing that !!

depends who builds it , there are too many variables but i have built at least 2 vee engines that achieved those numbers or close to it, they have less cam than a 110.
if its just slapped together then you will only make 45ish bhp at the hubs . I don't know anyone with an engine dyno thats checked out veedub engines real output but most rolling roads lie lots .
Any way that combo is overcammed IMO....
take it or leave it .
i am not being negative just realistic.
I was presented with Scat turn key 1916 it only made 66Hp @ the hubs until I made a few changes , then when the guy had it retested it made a quite impressive 120 hp.

You only changed a few things and doubled the HP?

it's a Scat 1916.... don't wanna sound like a dick but

ian.mezz wrote:Just check out the newest VWMA Dyno mania story , They seem to have more accurate dyno HP number s
🤪😂🤪

Yeah was interesting numbers there.....some of the cars with captions attached to the pics were suffering various "issues" on the day, pity that wasn't pointed out ;(

I was a bit confused by the numbers and how the different engines compared - I figured that the numbers weren't from fresh engines and that some of those builds had a bit of wear on them or other goodies changing the numbers a bit.

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=90363&page=3

You shoul be happy to get between 40 and 50 hp at the wheels

Differant dynos, differant builders,no two engines will ever run the same HP even if built using the same parts.
Theres engine builders and there is "engine builders"
Oils ain't oils.

Joel wrote:You only changed a few things and doubled the HP?

it's a Scat 1916.... don't wanna sound like a dick but

Well Joel I don't know why I need to tell you anything about Vw engines cause you already no it all. B/S.........

But the dyno I use is accurate very repeatable and I only stated the facts.
Its not a yankee non corrected piece of shit , its Lab quality.
I don't like what you are implying with that post and I am in no mood to take shit from a boy.
So pull your head out of your arse and get your hand off it

Geez, someone got a truck load of sand in their vag today.

Lighten up, it's a public forum, you're gonna get peoples opinions whether you like them or not.
Alt+f4 is your friend.

hellbugged wrote:

ian.mezz wrote:Just check out the newest VWMA Dyno mania story , They seem to have more accurate dyno HP number s
🤪😂🤪

Yeah was interesting numbers there.....some of the cars with captions attached to the pics were suffering various "issues" on the day, pity that wasn't pointed out ;(

Too true

Tony's manx was only running on 3 cylinders (literally)
I discovered that one of the nuts holding down my RHS manifold was loose enough to cause the annoying popping from fresh air giving it a lean condition at low revs and WOT.
Aahhh the joys 😎

Joel wrote:Geez, someone got a truck load of sand in their vag today.

Lighten up, it's a public forum, you're gonna get peoples opinions whether you like them or not.
Alt+f4 is your friend.

Ok U2U me your phone number, you called me a liar and we need to sort this out in private. Or are you too much of a sissy ?😂😂😂😂😂
I will call you sometime Tomorow or when its convenient for you otherwise please remove your lies from the this post

play nice peoples.

I think a few people need a chill pill

I dont see anyone calling anyone a liar.
Yes - he is suggesting your claim of "until I made a few changes" is unlikely
But if it is true, then maybe tell us what you did to double the output.

You have been on here 10 days and already starting to come on fairly strong.

If you were drinking in a new pub, would a person carry on like this

Yes it is a public forum and we all need to behave

Getting this thread deleted over a bit of name calling is not helping anyone especially the OP.

Bizarre put what I meant in more tactful terms, you put a pretty out there statement like that up and no info to back it up which is what this thread is about.
No I haven't been building VW engines for the last 40 years but I've knocked together enough modified motors to know you're not gonna pump a 1916 from 66 at the wheels to 120 with a jetting change **



(** denotes sarcasm)

Who said anything about jetting ?

Plenty of others have built 1916 engines that put out more power than that , so just because in your limited experience it may seem unrealistic it does not mean it B/S.

Why don't you stop hiding in your bedroom behind a computer screen and send me your phone number so we can sort this out in private.

I don't need to disclose exactly what changes were made to that engine , but the were as I said a few changes made. The engine was completely stripped down and

rebuilt to a much higher standard .

The engle 110 cam was replaced with something more suitable to the application. Most engine builders would know that that cam choice won't make much HP in that

size engine. The original post was in relation to a 110 cam, I was on topic but joel had no helpful input.

If we were in a pub I would be happy to talk to Joel face to face , but he is too much of a sissy to send me his phone number he would rather cause hassles while

hiding behind a screen.

Joel wrote:You only changed a few things and doubled the HP?

it's a Scat 1916.... don't wanna sound like a dick but

Bizzare this is post that annoyed me , that pic says that I am full of B/S.

Why don't you ask Joel to remove it ?

You guys are admin right ?

to make things clear HoneyAbba - I am a moderator. Not Admin.
Skool prefect - not head master

Whatever - spirited debate is where forums can go.

Yes - it was suggested that you claim "may" be BS
But to be fair - in the 15years of VW forums I have seem MANY people blow in and say they have 120 REAL rear wheel horsepower at the wheels. In reality I have only seen a hand full of cars like that - and most of them grenades. Most of the blow in experts are soon gone.
Note that I am NOT suggesting this of anyone here. Just stating past history

All that was being asked was for facts.

You are the one that has come on strong with the name calling and demanding phone numbers to "sort things out"

At the moment this "spiritedness" can continue to see if we can get some real information - but if it degenerates into threats and name calling it will go to the ether

Honey abba

Please tell us what sort of changes that were made to double the HP

If its easy it would be of benefit to all of us and we can have more fun with of VWs

so where are you located ??? in Aussie or ??

From the sounds of it you had a complete strip and rebuild with a bigger cam shaft thats a lot of work and i bet it wasnt cheap

First of all it's "a few changes" which turns out to be a strip and full rebuild ,cam change ect.
Come on enlighten us, what few changes did you make?

I like all the useful info here ..... 👎

If you're gonna go to pieces anytime someone challenges you, internet forums probably aren't for you then.
For the record I didnt say/imply it was bullshit, there are 100s of big hp 1916s out there, i was just saying a few changes doubling the hp sounds like bullshit.
From what we can gather you just have a different definition of a few small changes than some of us.

You're the one getting your aggressive gruff on.
Noone want's to know any secret tricks of the trade all your experience has given you, but its not hard so to say something like porting the shit outta the heads and dumping some IDAs on really paid off.

It has been entertaining to see how my own drunken post to get a rough idea of what HP I would get has taken a turn.

By the sounds of all the advice given, over all I should be happy with the results of the rebuild.

Cheers for the advice.

I bet you never thought you would see this come from your thread hey? Funny...

The exsisting 44 IDF webers were reused...manifolds were carefully matched to the heads.

There was no Porting the shit out of the heads.

We used different heads to what Scat supplied. CB oval ports with some careful machining , its not anywhere near a Grenade its still running fine in a Trike........

I have built several similar or hotter engines , all reliable . In fact more reliable than the roughly assembled Scat engines. The last 1 I looked at had the dizzy drive wearing into the

new case due to the dodgy thrust washers that the mexican dudes used ?

any thing else you people wish to know ?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

t_tuffnut wrote:It has been entertaining to see how my own drunken post to get a rough idea of what HP I would get has taken a turn.

By the sounds of all the advice given, over all I should be happy with the results of the rebuild.

Cheers for the advice.

I strongly recommend that you don't use that 110 cam in your 1600. A std cam would be much better.

Cheers

Cough cough

🙄 who would eva 'ave thunked it

So whats so wrong with a 1600 running a 110? I have found they can work well with mild heads and carbs .

tick .....tick .....tick .....tick ....tick.....tick .....tick .....tick .....tick ....tick 😂😂

I just hope that your car will have horse power to get up the drive at Sunday September 11th Lunch VW Cruise to "Trackside" Central Coast
🤪😂🤪

t_tuffnut wrote:It has been entertaining to see how my own drunken post to get a rough idea of what HP I would get has taken a turn.

By the sounds of all the advice given, over all I should be happy with the results of the rebuild.

Cheers for the advice.

I still carnt see how a head change will give you double the HP

if thats the case then i will buy a set thats CHEAP HP

Come on Birch, hp is in the heads, the rest is the same in any engine bar the camshaft (in a mechanical sense). Pistons, cylinders, rods and crankshafts don't change in the job they do, they just get more refined for strength and higher rpm, hp is all in the heads.

BUT, 120 from CB round ports and a 1915.......mmmmm, must be 120 flywheel IMO.

As I said on my last post
120 at the wheels with just that

Cough cough

mmm Mat read.... Oval port Heads with some careful machining and measuring... BHP readout @ the wheels

cough all you like , I don't care what u think.

👍👍👍

I don't want to argue about this , so many more accusations and I'm off line.

matberry wrote:So whats so wrong with a 1600 running a 110? I have found they can work well with mild heads and carbs .

tick .....tick .....tick .....tick ....tick.....tick .....tick .....tick .....tick ....tick 😂😂

nuff said

Come on Birch, hp is in the heads, the rest is the same in any engine bar the

yes especially if you fly cut them to increase the comp ratio no probs

Well its not going to make much power at at 8.5: 1 now is it ? unless you turn a lot of RPM !

More compression = more power up to the point of detonation .

Wow... this post has gone a long way from the original topic !!!

I'd be putting my money on about 50hp atw from a 1600 with a 110 in it. For comparison 1914/5/6's with a reasonable amount of headwork, Webers and a 110 get in the realm 70-80'ish atw

As to the other stuff... well HoneyAbba I think the issue that Joel and others have is your definition of "a few changes".

What's a SCAT motor cost landed... 4k... 5k ??? If I'd put down that sort of $$$ on an engine, I don't know that I'd consider a complete tear down and rebuild, different cam, different heads, increased compression etc. as "a few changes".

But hey - if the guys you build engines for are happy, that's about all that counts really !!!

👍

what rock have I been hiding under
I click on a thread about sposed ponies n BANG world series cricket sledge match
glad to see life in the play ground is still abundant without deletion
ooh the name calling and such
is the chemist outta riddalin chewables? 😘

I'll be over in the corner watching from afar with lights off listening to Adele
🤪 😂 🙄 🤓

HoneyAbba wrote:mmm Mat read.... Oval port Heads with some careful machining and measuring... BHP readout @ the wheels

cough all you like , I don't care what u think.

👍👍👍

I don't want to argue about this , so many more accusations and I'm off line.

Ooops, my bad, I did think it was built on round ports, so oval ports and 120 rwhp. I'd say well done, but I have to ask what CR?

HoneyAbba wrote:

matberry wrote:So whats so wrong with a 1600 running a 110? I have found they can work well with mild heads and carbs .

tick .....tick .....tick .....tick ....tick.....tick .....tick .....tick .....tick ....tick 😂😂

nuff said

So that's your argument........ very clever, thanks for sharing.

Next time your in Queensland, you must look me up, I'll race your 120rwhp with my 120 rwhp type 4.

I'd like to see that. 🙂

I would rather NOT disclose the cam grind or comp ratio, but I'm sure you could make an educated guess.

Its not my trike, its a customers and yes he is stoked 😂 with the results and was willing to pay..

so minimal chages can double yr HP

thers no substitute for BUMPS and compression thats the only way

Its great to log in here and not have people calling me a B/S artist.. and /or mods adjusting my posts yet leaving the offensive ones on there. I guess its just a communication thing..

cough cough

😂😂

Just out of interest, if it was a 100 cam with with twin solex 35s - how would that change things?

I want to keep this thread going until it reaches Pay per View!

dual 36 carbs ,are they single barrell carbs , or 36 dual double barrels ?

Single. Would doubles work on a 1600 with that configuration and stock heads?

t_tuffnut wrote:Single. Would doubles work on a 1600 with that configuration and stock heads?

Yes

I just installed dual Kadrons (single barrels) on my stock 1600. Along with my merged header with Phat Boy for better flow, it feels like i've doubled my ponies 😉

Cool. I can't wait!

Hi guys,

I have a question to ask on this thread.

My car is currently getting the carbs set up. I have a stock 1600cc twin-port with a Pertronix distributor (009 style), sidewinder exhaust and a pair of 36mm IDF Webers on CB Performance manifolds. What size venturis would you recommend for the Webers? The carbs currently have something like 32mm venturis in them. I want it to run nicely on the stock 1600 at this stage, but in the future I may upgrade the engine with heads, cam and who knows what else.

waveman1500 wrote:Hi guys,

I have a question to ask on this thread.

My car is currently getting the carbs set up. I have a stock 1600cc twin-port with a Pertronix distributor (009 style), sidewinder exhaust and a pair of 36mm IDF Webers on CB Performance manifolds. What size venturis would you recommend for the Webers? The carbs currently have something like 32mm venturis in them. I want it to run nicely on the stock 1600 at this stage, but in the future I may upgrade the engine with heads, cam and who knows what else.

I've got a set of 36 IDF's with 32mm venturi's on a stock 1600 with extractors and it runs fine and get good mileage.

^^^^^ agreed

I had the same.
32 vents 135 mains F11's and 45 idles

Really? Bob at Volkscare is suggesting that they are too big, and the basic research which I have done on the internet is suggesting that I should go for 28mm venturis. I'm happy to try it with the big venturis as it will save me buying new ones! Those things aren't cheap when you're buying four!

28's will be much better low speed drivability.

As a general rule the venturis need to be smaller than the intake valve buy around 3mm, for a strong signal from the engine to the carby.

Also a E100 cam will work OK, a std cam will work better.

its not just the venturis you need to buy - as the mains match the vents
28 vents - 115 to 120 mains
32 vents - 135ish mains

I believe the CB SuperDellorto book and the Haynes Weber book suggest 32's if you check their graph
Whatever - I have never used 28's but have been VERY happy with 32's on IDF 36's on both a 1600 and a 1776

Following the same story - I have 34's in my DRLA 40s in a 1916

Just make sure you dont have that stoopid E57

It goes without saying that if you change the size of the venturies/chokes then rejetting will be required, that formula vents x 4 is just a guide or starting point, every engine is different . The Only way to get it right is to use a wide band air /fuel ratio meter and put the car on the road or better still on a dyno .
Seat of pants jetting or checking plug colour is from last century..😁

is E 57 a dellorto E-tube number ?

If it helps the OP on the sort of numbers to expect, I've got a 1641 with Scat C25 cam, 36 Dells, extractor exhaust and a 009 with Pertronix ignitor, makes 52.6 RWHP

HoneyAbba wrote:is E 57 a dellorto E-tube number ?

That is what the Alfa's were supplied with

Could never get that f&$ker to work 🙁

Thanks Jon - useful to know. Mine will be 1600, but it is good to know that your getting similar numbers to those suggested earlier in the thread.

I think you'll find the emulsion to be a F57. I haven't have a big problem with them. Marcus has a set on a 1641 with port and chamber work on 043 40x35 heads, mild cam similar to a W100 and with the F57's we jetted it to run beautifully. Yet to be confirmed by A/F meter, but great to drive so not far wrong. I'm sure Marcus will be going thru the jetting in detail soon.

Sorry - correct
F57.

I hated them
Bloody glad some likes em 😵

Hey tuffnut, don't worry too much about HP mate just build your 1600tp 110 36s, massage the stock heads a bit, get a good exhaust and you will not be able to get the silly grin off your face every time you drive your car, that's what its all about in the end.

Let us know exactly what carbs you are going with cause 36 IDF need a bit of tweaking before being used on beetle.

HoneyAbba, there are plenty of people in this and VW forums all over the world that are highly more qualified, experienced and respected than yourself, that openly share their knowledge and engine recipes and back up their HP claims.
AFAIC, you can keep your cam and C/R combo a secret.

my mate had a 1640,110 cam ,idfs, masaged heads etc..drove superb....lovely daily driver and still fun...