I'm going to narrow my beam by 4''
I have a few questions
1- how narrow can you go without having to modify the body or the shock towers?
Seems like you could remove about an inch and a half from both sides, so 3'' total, sound right??
2- if I was to narrow it more than 3'' the shock towers will most likely need to be modified, does anybody have experience in not running shocks at all????
3- what are the pros and cons of narrowing from the centre vs the outside ends??
PS it's a link pin setup
Thanks for your help guys n gals
t1 time ·
PS is it a pink slip set up ?
vwo60 ·
narrowed beams reduce the track and as such are illegal, same wth the shocks, if the car came with them you must run them, they are there for a purpose
Mattriots ·
Thanks for the input guys, but can I just get some input from people who have had experience in this type of mod
penguin ·
Matt
the pink slip comment was to ask are you going to try and make the car legal? Are you fitting drop spindles to the beetle after (they may add to the track)
There are some guys who have contacts with folk who run shockless, I am not sure who they are on here, but you can always try the US Cal Look forum http://www.cal-look.com/ as I am sure there are a few guys there who could asist.
Also which state are you in? there are some good shops about that can do the work for you, or you could even just buy a narrowed beam.
ragged ·
Link pin can only be narrowed by less than an inch without modifying body work or changing the shock tower. Ball joint can be narrowed more because the shock towers lean away from the bodywork.
Dave
Brian ·
I have driven a car with a narrowed beam and no shocks, it handled worse thanything I have driven, even the owner could not put up with it.
Its a stupid thing to do to a car as well as highly illegal. No rego inspector will pass it unless he is very dodgy.
As well as that they look like shit.
surfpig ·
mines narrowed 4.5" with link pin and still got shocks, passed the blue slip no troubles.
vwo60 ·
Obviously the guy that inspected the car did not know VW's, it can come back to bit him on the arse if there is any issues with it on the road, any reducion in track is illegall, all well until you have a accident.
Hertz ·
With the right set up, you can go up to 4.5 inches narrowed without body mods. Dont listen to anyone who isn't experienced with this sort of thing. Down Under Beams, in Gosford, can build you a world class beam up to 4.5 with shock towers to slip right in.
I ran my old car 5.5 inches without shocks daily for 18 months (60kms per day) an inch and a half of the ground with no problems. Handled great, rode as nice as a stock beam, bbut without the dreaded crosswind wandering. If you want to go low, then you need to go narrow. That said, its best to pay the money for a well made beam by someone who knows how to set them up right. Sure if you want to race it around oran park, you may want a different set up, but if you just want it slammed and still driving nice and turning without scrubbing then a 4.5 would be the go. I could offer up at least 50 blokes I know running narrowed who all swear by it, some with shocks, some without.
The DUB beams (0409 493012) look factory and I have never heard of a single one being knocked back for rego in anystate. Hope that helps.
Hertz ·
vwo60 wrote:Obviously the guy that inspected the car did not know VW's, it can come back to bit him on the arse if there is any issues with it on the road, any reducion in track is illegall, all well until you have a accident.
I think your getting your knickers in a bit of a twist.
Wannavee ·
Ive driven 4.5 and six inch narrowed beam beetles and I can tell you straight up they handled FINE!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,if some don't like the look of it, thats their opinion, but the thousands of people who do like it and have done this mod put up with any so called bad handling problems.
If it is DONE RIGHT, with the right advice and components you won't have any drama's
Listen to the people that have done it before and know what to do and what parts to buy, and only hear what the others say.
Its up to you mate, just get the right advice and spend the money to get a decent job done
Hertz ·
Have a look at these
Down Under Beam's wrote:Down Under Beams present Fresh steel beams !for your link pin beetle
Using laser cut and folded uprights wich include boss and top plate for body mount
End plates using Tin KDF's (aka Bugboy) tried and proven end plates laser cut to suit the beam tube perfectly.Allow's up to 4 .5'' narrowed beam with shocks 8)
6'' narrowed beam showing the end plates that will be used (not welded in pic)
4.5'' with shock towers painted and ready for install
Down Under Beams PRICE LIST
Bare steel beam with shock towers $625
Bare steel beam with out shock towers $575
Bugpack Bushes (No machining needed) $75
Quicksteers $65 (recommended for anything narrower than 4.5'')
Painted add $30
Spring Packs shortened and Redimpled $90 per pair (using your springs)
Tie Rods cut and re tapped $60 per pair (using your tie rods)
Stickers $ 5 or buy a beam and get one free 😀
Down Under Beams does NOT narrow O.G. beams ,and does not sell shock towers etc seperately
vwo60 ·
I am just curious Hertz, are your beams approved to be used on public roads, if they are not do you issue a disclaimer when some one purchases one from you, i am not getting my knickers in a twist but the downside of modifiying a vehicle without the engineering approval is fraught with problems, it also paints everbody that make the effort to modify there cars legally with the same brush as people that don't, downside could be over time that all mods could be banned and we all end up driving unmodified vehicles because of the minority.
NUG637 ·
just means you should all narrow your beams like mine so that way they think its normal 😎 and if i was you i would be more worried about your rims failing befor my beam 😂
i got a 4.5inch beam that i built in my 58 and one in my girlfriends 61, both with dropped spindles and i wouldnt have it any other way.
Mattriots ·
Man there are now alot of twisty knickers because of a few simple questions!!
Thanks to those who actually answered the questions rather than trying to tell me how to modify MY car
This is a MODIFIED car thread, don't like it, leave
Now
I can't afford to go the option of a DUB beam, but I have had many years of experience with laser cutting and mechanical design, so I might have a crack at my own custom shock mounts. If they don't work, it's no shocks for me!
Cheers lads
NUG637 ·
👍
if you dont end up running shocks you could even go 6inches narrowed, still has a sweet turning cirlce with minimal scrubbing
dont forget the tie rods will need shortening/re taping but thats the easy part 😉
Wannavee ·
Thats the spirit mate,do what ya wanna do
Hertz ·
I dont make the beams. If you are so into details, you will have noticed that I refered to a 3rd person in my post, that being Down Under Beams.
The guy asked a series of questions regarding narrowed beams. You answered none of them. He explained what he was doing and asked specific questions regard what he was doing. He did not ask for a lecture.
If you are doing it yourself on a budget, LJ from DUB is now doing 1 piece shock towers for beams up to 4 inches. Give him a bell, he might sell you set. When doing it yourself, never narrow from the centre. Put your adjusters in one at a time, and narrow from the outside. Carefully unpick the welds on the factory shocktowers, slide them off, then measure twice cut once. As a tip, before you weld the new towers on, or dimple your spring packs, assemble your bushed and trailing arms in the beam and measure the offset of the arms to check its correct. Once you know the offset of the top and bottom arm is correct you can dimple your spring packs, and weld on your new towers.
Hope that helps.
If there is anything else you need to know shoot me a PM
Josh
Brian ·
Mattriots
I have driven and repaired modified cars for the last 27 years, you asked for opinions so don't whine when you get told what you don't want to hear.
Hertz.
Those beams don't look anything like "factory" and if you are selling them then you could be one of the people who has to live with yourself after some kid gets killed by this stupid mod.
There is nothing world class about what you are doing and I think the self congradulations are over the the top . That statment makes me laugh out loud a lot.
This is obviously a touchy subject but do you have a legit Business ? Do you pay all the nessesary Taxes etc ?
Mattriots.
If you know anything about mechanical design then you won't do anything as silly as using a narrowed beam especialy with no shocks.
The NSW RTA is already hard to deal with because of stupidly lowered or raised cars, it won't be long before all mods are banned, most Engineering signatories have either quit or gone into hiding because of all this crap.
Hertz ·
I just said I wasnt selling them. And he didnt ask for opinions at all. He asked specific questions relating to what he is planning to do. Tell me what shocks the KDF's ran on the front? Got a part number. Dont give me the holier than thou crap. If youve ever driven a stock height beetle at 100kmh in a wind, how on earth can you tell me that safe, frog shit, its terrifying. Id rather my ass 1 inch off the ground and my car driving straight.
Youve all made your opinions known (whilst uncalled for) now lets get down to the business of try to help him do it right because he's going to do it anyway. Fair dinkum.
*edited by Helbus - all cool*
NUG637 ·
The comment that I read on this forum last time still cracks me up.... "why narrow your beam? Just widen your guards!"
Hahaha and while your at it you can add in those heaps sick Torana tail lights 👍
Back to business, let's slam that sucka!
Unity-28 ·
Brian wrote:The NSW RTA is already hard to deal with because of stupidly lowered or raised cars, it won't be long before all mods are banned, most Engineering signatories have either quit or gone into hiding because of all this crap.
And that will be the loss of who knows how many jobs.....it wont happen.
Oh, and Brian, how many of these "stock" cars are driving around with non stock engines, that are over powered for the braking system, or disc brake conversations, unless they are engineered, they ain't legal either....
surfpig ·
vwo60 wrote:Obviously the guy that inspected the car did not know VW's, it can come back to bit him on the arse if there is any issues with it on the road, any reducion in track is illegall, all well until you have a accident.
no mate, he knows vw's. he is good mates with Ben Durie and was recommended by him.
cant wait to this thing slammed! 😎
make sure you post photos when its done
Mattriots ·
Cheers hertz
I guess I'll just pm you any other questions I have
It amazes me how many people in the Tech Mods forum have a problem with people modifying their car
Mattriots ·
NUG637 wrote:👍
if you dont end up running shocks you could even go 6inches narrowed, still has a sweet turning cirlce with minimal scrubbing
You my friend are a genius!
6" it is!
vwo60 ·
Hi hertz, i think you need to do some research, even a 43 model KDF ran front shocks, vw obviously recognised the need for them, i do not care about what you do to your car, but when you drive them on a public road and there is a accident it can directly impact on me, i modify my cars as well but they are all engineered and approved so i can carry the insurance that will protect me from being in debt for the rest of my life, as for a standard beetle being dangerous at 100KLM, i would rather be driving that than a car that 1" of the road. are the beams that you promote legal ?
PHAT BUG ·
Mattriots,
Unfortunately due to the nature of this forum and it's loyal band of "experts" it is very hard to get a straight answer sometimes.
You asked a few specific questions regarding narrowed beams, you never asked for anybody's opinion. Hopefully you have got the information you wanted.
Unfortunately, like assholes, everybody has an opinion.
Sometime's when relevant people should share it and at other time's people should keep it to themselve's.
Again I hope you hven't been put off by these so called "experts", I have been driving narrowed bugs daily for years and have never noticed any ill effects.
Enjoy your time with 'your' bug mate, do with it as you please 😉
PHAT BUG ·
Brian wrote:The NSW RTA is already hard to deal with because of stupidly lowered or raised cars
Yeah those bastards!!
😂😂
surfpig ·
whatta *name deleted by mod* ^ 😂
NUG637 ·
Vwo60 - there's something wrong with the beam in the picture of that kdf pan...... Has it been widened and where are the adjusters??
😂
NUG637 ·
a 4.5 in adjustable beam with shocks, 2.5in spindles and 135's and 2 notches down in the rear will get you sitting like this 😉
and the bus has a straight axle conversion 5 inch adjustable beam and flipped spindles (unsure of tyre size)
Hertz ·
Matt you are wasting your precious time on this site.
You have PM.
captainvw ·
and its threads like this that i only check in on AVD rarely small minded behind the time internet experts and for you Brian have you ever driven on a 4'' narrowed beam? If you want to check them out Boris at VVDS stocks them you might have heard of him ......
Mattriots ·
Just to let you guys know, my beam is now being narrowed 4'' with no shocks
Work is almost done, I'll post some pics soon.
Hey Nug, what size tyres you running on that blue beetle???
I'm down two splines in the rear and am going to run portawalls, but I don't know what size tyre to run so they fit properly??
I've got 15x6's for the rear too!!
5lam ·
I have a 4" narrowed Ultimate Beam & drop spindles coming from Airkewld, and 3" drop spring plates from Jer Fab.
I agree, 100kph in a stock bug IS scary. I shit myself getting overtaken by trucks.
I can't wait to get my bug closer to the ground. Most of these aftermarket products are over engineered and are in fact better than the original.
Do your research first, is all ill say.
captainvw ·
Mattriots wrote:Just to let you guys know, my beam is now being narrowed 4'' with no shocks
Work is almost done, I'll post some pics soon.
Hey Nug, what size tyres you running on that blue beetle???
I'm down two splines in the rear and am going to run portawalls, but I don't know what size tyre to run so they fit properly??
I've got 15x6's for the rear too!!
You'll wanna go atleast 6'' with no shock otherwise it will be like driving a Pogo stick .
Remember the shorter the spring packs the firmer the ride which is what you want when 60 or 70 mm off the deck
Mattriots ·
It's all done,
4'' narrowed and drives perfectly, not rock hard, not a pogo stick, it's just right!!
I'll post some pics soon
5lam ·
Yay!
Now where are those pics? 😵💫
hus22l ·
Hi, does anyone have experience with the 4" narrowed beam being sold by Cip1 in the states? Very competitive prices at the moment, just that concern about whether it will bolt on - or need modifications.
Any thoughts?
matberry ·
Not used the exact one, but my experience is that most US repro beams are made of a substance only slightly harder than butter. Go with a Downunder beam (Oz built from strong thick wall tube)
dragsters for life ·
we just started building 4 inch narrow type 1 beam for my late notch
hus22l ·
5lam wrote:I have a 4" narrowed Ultimate Beam & drop spindles coming from Airkewld, and 3" drop spring plates from Jer Fab.
I agree, 100kph in a stock bug IS scary. I shit myself getting overtaken by trucks.
I can't wait to get my bug closer to the ground. Most of these aftermarket products are over engineered and are in fact better than the original.
Do your research first, is all ill say.
Hey 5lam, how did you go with the Airkewld gear? Any hassles with the installation? Doesn't look like LJ is doing his DUB thing anymore 🙁
I gotta get an alternative and join all the low rollers!
; )
AndrewB ·
hus22l wrote:Hey 5lam, how did you go with the Airkewld gear? Any hassles with the installation? Doesn't look like LJ is doing his DUB thing anymore 🙁
I gotta get an alternative and join all the low rollers!
; )
Dave sold his bug so i dont think he will answer the above,
From what i know he had no probs with the airkewld stuff.
Theres a couple of dub beams still at vintage vee dub...
77dual ·
Or try Skinned Knuckles, great quality Australian made beams 😉
L7back ·
The Airkewld 4" narrowed & adjustable beam with shock towers went straight into my 59 Beetle. Just a little bit of fiddling with the Tie rods. Just be prepared for a 2 Month wait for it to arrive. and a pretty heavy freight bill. But it is a huge improvement on the 6" shockless beam that was in there when I got her.
Oh and its legal..... Well almost, just a little low.
matberry ·
^^ since when is a 4" narrowed beam legal?
Governor ·
L7back wrote:The Airkewld 4" narrowed & adjustable beam with shock towers went straight into my 59 Beetle. Just a little bit of fiddling with the Tie rods. Just be prepared for a 2 Month wait for it to arrive. and a pretty heavy freight bill. But it is a huge improvement on the 6" shockless beam that was in there when I got her.
Oh and its legal..... Well almost, just a little low.
No such thing as "almost legal" it either is or isn't and as far as I am aware ANY modifications to suspension need to be engineered!
That includes replacement beams if not original manufacture, so unless you have had the Airkewld beam engineered I am afraid you are not legal and if your involved in an accident , if discovered, you will be liable as your insurance will be void
L7back ·
Wow, didn't know that. I thought that the leading VW Resto House in Australia would sell legal product.
So how does a Bug with a 6" narrowed beam (not sold at the leading VW Resto House) without shock towers get registered?
I know, dumb question! It shouldn't and the person that signed off on the rego would loose his license if found out!
barls ·
yes they should, but then again whos to say it was there when they inspected it??
hus22l ·
A lot of weh weh weh. 😁
Package from the states arrived today. I'm pumped!
L7back ·
Has anybody out there tried to get an Engineering Certificate for a lowered bug with a narrowed beam?
aussietanker ·
L7back wrote:Has anybody out there tried to get an Engineering Certificate for a lowered bug with a narrowed beam?
so is it possible to do this legally or not?
LUFTMEISTER ·
No. Because no 2 engineers can agree on any suspension mods. Thus continuing the scam. Of course you can buy their opinion but another one will disagree with it, if paid enough or has a conflict of interest. Its okay for a large Japanese manufacturer to kill 5 people with a manufacturing/engineering fault as long as you pay the fine, no ones held responsible. 🤪 My2c
vwo60 ·
In queensland any reduction in track is illeagle. I spoke to the engineer at the main roads and he said it is definitive.
tar76 ·
Narrowed beam and a good dose of the lowness, you'll love it!
Craig Torrens ·
😂
joesbuell ·
I have 4" narrowed beam 21/2 drop spindles 3" Jerfab spring plates and drives awesome.
Its your car do want ya F@$kin want!!! 🙂
vwo60 ·
You can do what ever you want, you just cannot drive it on the road
joesbuell ·
Yeah whateva.....
kombibob ·
So tell me vwo60 why are you not jumping up and down every time someone puts a 1600 in a early beetle? As that is also now a illegal modification!
joesbuell ·
Boom boom!!!
vwo60 ·
Fit a front disc brake kit and it is legal, mine is engineered and blue plated.
kombibob ·
Not any more! Now you need twin speed wipers , and a collapsible steering column if power increase is over 30 %
Even in a kombi with a vertical column .
vwo60 ·
Cannot be applied retrospectively, my car still complies.
kombibob ·
Not talking about your car, just saying that even before the new rules you never jumped up and down about people putting bigger motors in early dubs and not upgrading brakes.
The only mod you have a gripe about is narrowed beams .
So now are you also going to carry on about every car that gets a bigger engine? as it couldn't possibly pass an engineers inspection without a collapsible steering column.
And my car is also blue plated, doesn't make it any more legal though 🙂
LUFTMEISTER ·
Been the same since the first law was written up. If the law is an ass then it will be ignored. So lives the hot rodders lifestyle. Drive on freestylers 👍
nils ·
aussietanker wrote:
L7back wrote:Has anybody out there tried to get an Engineering Certificate for a lowered bug with a narrowed beam?
so is it possible to do this legally or not?
Under the Current NCOP I can't see it, there is simply no scope for a narrowed track (wider on the other hand) Go Baja, or go home it seems! 😂
^^^^
where did the other half of my post go? I'm so not writing that paragraph again 😠
nils ·
On another note, every time there is an argument on a VW forum EMPI add more cheese to there castings
vwo60 ·
I have actually had the experience of owning a car with a narrowed beam, when I bought my ghia with one the first job was to remove it and get the steering geometry as close to standard as possible, what a difference it made to the handling and ride. I do not comment on other mods because they can be done legally were as the narrowed beam cannot, all my modifications are based on improvement, any modification that is done only for appearance sake with no regard for safety is just lunacy.
kombibob ·
Best you never go to a hot rod show,
You will probably lose your shit!! 😉 ha ha
shokwave2 ·
vwo60 wrote:All my modifications are based on improvement, any modification that is done only for appearance sake with no regard for safety is just lunacy.
How are those mag wheels performing? Do they allow you to corner better? Are they safer than stock rims? Don't you dare add them for looks🥷
I was told a while back by someone who builds VW motors that even swapping your oil bath filter on a 1600cc for a chrome air filter needs an engineering certificate, as it is modifying the original design. I bet 99% of the VW's on the road would be classed as unroadworthy if this is true. I know mine would be. I'm not going to pay some engineer hundreds of dollars to come look at an extra bolt i've bolted to my car.
LUFTMEISTER ·
Thats why some people see a beautiful sunset and engineers see thermal cooling. Looks = Art = Imagination - Imagination is what seperates us from robots. Whole industries are based on looks, not form. My2c
kombibob ·
Plus my ute may have a narrowed beam, but it also now has seatbelts , duel circuit disc brakes , r and p steering, irs etc.
so I challenge you to go around a bend in a stock splitscreen kombi as fast as I can!
Not that I drive fast around corners because yes this car is built mostly for looks, but it is still far safer then a stock splitscreen driving in today's conditions anyway.
I also know 3 cops in Seq alone that are running narrowed beams 😉
If you are so concerned about safety over looks why are you even driving old cars...perhaps you should look at one of the new Volvos available?
DakDak67 ·
I just narrowed the beam on my Touareg this morning, can I still get insurance?
kombibob ·
Give me a call mate, I know a guy 😉
beetle_nut ·
Wouldnt have anything but a narrowed beam in my vw.even did a type 1 beam conversion in my notch back..
tar76 ·
Narrowed beams are the "Devil"!!😂😂😂
joesbuell ·
And the Devil Rocks!!!!
David Rayner ·
I'm very new to VWs so I must ask a question. Why do people narrow the front track? Legalities aside, why is it done to VWs? I've never heard of it being done to any other car.
karmann141 ·
It supposedly looks good but rides like a pig and handles like shit.