EJ22 or 1916cc?

Hey guys (and girls).

I've been looking into converting Zelda to an EJ22 and it'll end up costing me around $4,000. That isn't including my own labour of getting the plumbing and all that done.

My question is, is it worth me spending that $4,000 on getting a 1916cc? Which will then just be a drop in replacement, with no need to modify anything other that just mounting it in?

This is a serious issue as well, as I need to decide within the next couple of days what route to take. I've heard that a 1916cc can keep up with the big boys, but surely nothing can beat the power of a N/A EJ22 when it comes to a Type 1 engine?

Any insight, anything, would be greatly appreciated!

Look at it this way, you're comparing 1930's technology to 1990's technology

My thoughts exactly. But is it worth such a massive conversion?

I won't be selling my car, no questions asked, so is it worth me just jumping the gun and do the Subaru conversion now or do I do a 1916cc and then later on do the Subaru conversion?

My idea is to just do the conversion. But want to know other peoples suggestions/opinions before doing so.

Well to me it all comes down to what you want from the car.

There is no doubt that having an EJ engine in it will make it more reliable, more economical and quieter, and usually with much more power. It will add weight which will blunt the power improvement a little, and will change the handling, but there are many good reasons to go down that path (including the potential of using a 5 speed, air con etc).

However, one of the reasons I haven't gone down that path (yet), is that I still struggle with why I wouldn't just go out and buy a Subaru rather than doing it to the Beetle. I realise that an awful lot of people don't have that hang up and that it might be peculiar to me, but there is something about an air cooled motor that makes it the heart and soul. One day I might do it, but at this stage the heart says no. My thoughts might be influenced by the fact that my Beetle is my toy, and I have another car to drive everywhere. If the Beetle was my only car then I might be slightly more pragmatic and less emotional about it.

So then, if you don't share my hangs up about whether it is air cooled or not AND you are confident that the cost of the conversion is realistic, then it is an easy decision. EJ all the way.

Do a search on the topic as it has been covered many times in the past. At the end of the day though, it comes down to what YOU want more than anything else as both have strengths and weaknesses.

Yogie

A subi conversion is a huge job and it's abit hard to put a $4k price tag on it, will probably cost more than that depending on how much you pay to have done and the quality of the conversion or it may cost less, I reckon I could do mine for about $2.5k if I did it again cos I learned alot of lessons first time round..

But by the same token $4k is not going to buy you much of a 1916, certainly not one that's gonna keep up with the big boys, work on double that figure.

$4k barely builds a quality stock 1600 properly these days.

also consider the engineering requirements of going the EJ22 route.

Yes - a 1916 should be engineered as well, but...............................

Craig S wrote:Well to me it all comes down to what you want from the car.

There is no doubt that having an EJ engine in it will make it more reliable, more economical and quieter, and usually with much more power. It will add weight which will blunt the power improvement a little, and will change the handling, but there are many good reasons to go down that path (including the potential of using a 5 speed, air con etc).

However, one of the reasons I haven't gone down that path (yet), is that I still struggle with why I wouldn't just go out and buy a Subaru rather than doing it to the Beetle. I realise that an awful lot of people don't have that hang up and that it might be peculiar to me, but there is something about an air cooled motor that makes it the heart and soul. One day I might do it, but at this stage the heart says no. My thoughts might be influenced by the fact that my Beetle is my toy, and I have another car to drive everywhere. If the Beetle was my only car then I might be slightly more pragmatic and less emotional about it.

So then, if you don't share my hangs up about whether it is air cooled or not AND you are confident that the cost of the conversion is realistic, then it is an easy decision. EJ all the way.

I'm not looking at selling Zelda any time soon and she is going to be my daily for quick some time. Hence why I think going to the EJ is definitely more of a choice for me.

Like you said, the possibility of adding in A/C is definitely a big bonus and having the quality of a new-technology engine, EFI, and all of that, that is definitely a big plus for me.

I'm confident that I can definitely support the cost of the conversion and what not, I've found a few kits that actually would mean I wouldn't need to make my own water hard lines and so forth, so I'm pretty confident I could get it done in a long weekend if I got a couple of mates around.

Joel wrote:A subi conversion is a huge job and it's abit hard to put a $4k price tag on it, will probably cost more than that depending on how much you pay to have done and the quality of the conversion or it may cost less, I reckon I could do mine for about $2.5k if I did it again cos I learned alot of lessons first time round..

But by the same token $4k is not going to buy you much of a 1916, certainly not one that's gonna keep up with the big boys, work on double that figure.

$4k barely builds a quality stock 1600 properly these days.

You're right Joel, we've been talking quite a bit in PM and I'm pretty sure that everything should be able to get done for just shy of $5,000. Now, that to me is money well spent.

Bizarre wrote:also consider the engineering requirements of going the EJ22 route.

Yes - a 1916 should be engineered as well, but...............................

I've asked around for some of the engineering requirements, I'm pretty sure that the only other major thing that will need to be done is a brake upgrade, other than that it is just the normal does everything work.

Thanks guys for all the information and thoughts!

Yep you would be right on the money with the price of a 1916 Joel. I pick up the wifes car tommorrow with a brand new 1916, and all up it costed about 10k drive away including all ancilleries. Its true..you need to know what you want out of the car Seb..otherwise you'll waste your money in the wrong areas and on the wrong parts..you would of spent a shit load of money and the car would probably still look the same..

Snitz,
You're right, I've already spent a lot of cash on Zelda and she still looks like a beetle, and sounds like a beetle.
But you can see where I've spent the money. It has a sound system (definitely an upgrade from the previous speaker box) and I've gotten rid of the torana taillights.
The only thing, money wise, that I've wasted I reckon is on the engine that I just put in her...

Hence why I'm tossing up just selling the engine and buying a half cut Liberty, grabbing everything out of that and dumping it into Zelda.
That's the plan anyway.

Jak Rizzo wrote:if u are going to go to all the trouble of putting a radiator in your beetle, put some decent power in the back to warrant the effort. it's actually bugger all extra work to move the gearbox forward so that a twin cam WRX engine will fit neatly inside the stock bodywork.

I'm now up to 205'000klm's on my WRX conversion & it's the best thing I have done to my car in 20 years of ownership.

Otherwise, a nice 1916cc can be built quite cheap if u can build it yourself & search around & wait for the right price for parts.

Jak

Jak,
Thanks for all the information, really appreciated!
Radiator installation shouldn't actually be that hard. Luckily I have the flat tire well and I think that will definitely give me an easier installation. I've seen a few people do it where they chop out the rear parcel tray bit and have the radiator mounted there, but that wouldn't be something I'd do to Zelda that's for sure...

The radiator will definitely be mounted in the front. I have found a website (http://sharpbuilt.com.au) that actually sell hard water line kits. I'll be in contact with them as soon as I have an engine and radiator ready to install.

How much further did you move the gearbox forward to compensate for the DOHC WRX engine?

I don't want to modify the body work to fit the engine in the rear, so if it only takes cutting into the framehorn/tunnel (I think this is what it is called) then I'll definitely consider doing such a thing. I'll probably end up doing it for the SOHC engine that will go in first, but it'll make it easier for me in the long run when I do upgrade to a DOHC WRX engine.

I'm still keen to just do an EJ22 for now, but will definitely look into doing something a bit better later on. My main issue is that I'm on my P1's still and I can't have a turbo powered car until I'm 25...

Which kinda sucks.

Jak Rizzo wrote:To move the gearbox forward the amount required was simply a matter of turning the standard rear mount around, cut off the existing front gearbox mount & welding on a Berg style intermediatte mount, shorten the shift rod 2 inches from memory (it over 7 years ago that I did mine) & that was it.

I was dreading it thinking that it was going to be bigger than ben hur but it pretty straight forward.

Sorry, I didn't realise that u are on your P's. If u intend on keeping your car for quite some time then maybe the EJ22 is worth considering.

regards
Jak

Yeah, I did some quick research and it looks like it is possible to just chop the tunnel in a few inches and just move the gearbox forward a bit more...

I've done a lot of research about the actual installation and it doesn't seem like that big of a job. With the right tools and frame of mind, it could be a really simple job.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'll be more happy with an EJ22 than a 1916cc. I've got one lined up however, it's done about 175,000kms, wiring loom and ECU all for $1,650.

I don't know if that is good or bad, what are your thoughts?

What! Just for a ej22.. dude don't pay more than $700 for a good one.

Yeah, they want $1,650 for everything...
Was a half cut for $1,400 and then $250 for the labour to get the engine, wiring loom, and ECU out...

I will keep my eyes on eBay and the sort for a cheap EJ22 then.

If anyone knows anyone, hit me up!

Yeah it's from a wreckers as a package loom/ecu etc.
They always charge like wounded bulls.

Still alot dearer than a donor car which you can buy for half of that and sell off the left over parts (gearbox, panels, interior, shell for scrap)
But you gotta have room and resources to do that.

What Jak said has merit.
Main reason I didn't go that way was I don't like the way the bumper mounts get cut out to clear the timing belt covers.
A simple tap up the arse by a P-plater txting while driving would cause alot more damage than it would normally.

Also I didn't want to lose the rear parcel tray.
You can get a lot of HP out of the N/A engines with some work.
Mine with a better header setup and some tweaked aftermarket management would easy make over 200hp but even at the 175hp it has now it's a hoot to drive and scares alot of people

Yessir, that is why it is going to cost a heap.

I found someone on Gumtree, $550 for the engine. I just sent them a text about matching wiring loom and ECU.
Will see what happens.

Yeah, I will stick with the standard gearbox position and just get a SOHC for now.
It is the only thing I can run for the next however many years until I'm 25.

I definitely don't want to lose the parcel tray, let alone the rear seat.
That's there as I have a small sister that I will take to and from school in it, and she's only allowed to sit in the rear of a car.

Joel, 150hp is a massive upgrade from a 36hp engine...
I don't need anything massive.

Jak,
You wouldn't happen to have a build thread anywhere or any images of the actual engine placement and everything anywhere would you?
Would love to see what you've done in comparison to others.

Yeah, 175,000+ is a bit high for my liking too. Found one with a lot less somewhere which is cool.

Thanks again!

Thanks Jak!

Damn those videos are good!

You have to ask ....... how come there's not more Subi's entered at WSID this weekend........❓❓❓

I know that Joel is running an EJ25 block with EJ22 size heads because the EJ25 heads were too large to fit without body modifications...

I think I'll stick with the EJ22. Found one for $550 here in Adelaide, asked about wiring loom and ECU, just waiting for a reply now.

matberry wrote:You have to ask ....... how come there's not more Subi's entered at WSID this weekend........❓❓❓

It is definitely a fair point, I wouldn't enter mine into WSID when I have done the Subaru conversion...

Unless I was peer pressured into it. Otherwise, Zelda will just be a daily driver and that's about it. I wouldn't want to push her unless I had a decent gearbox in there too.

Alrighty.

For $700, I can get ECU, wiring loom and EJ22 with 222,000kms.
Has had timing belt replaced and water pump as well.

Is that a large amount of kilometres? What's the estimated maximum for a Subaru?
It'll be daily driven, but I only work five minutes from home. It could easily last me five more years I reckon...

What are your thoughts?

Is this any help?

Subaru Conversion For Sale

Have for sale Subaru kit, excess to requirements.
Sherman adaptor set-up, with 215mm clutch, all assembled.
EJ22 engine low km jap, plus another spare genuine 132,000km
Shotened loom, ECU, air flow meter, reversed air intake, manual.

All you need is Raditor and hoses

Asking $2000, can deliver within reason---

Geoff's Auto Studio 0407968021

gasyerra@westnet.com.au

Photos

Photo

Photo

Have contacted email above.

Very keen.

Delivery to Adelaide?

Seems a better deal then just buying the engine and doing it all myself.
Keen, keen and more keen!

SebastienPeek wrote:Alrighty.

For $700, I can get ECU, wiring loom and EJ22 with 222,000kms.
Has had timing belt replaced and water pump as well.

Is that a large amount of kilometres? What's the estimated maximum for a Subaru?
It'll be daily driven, but I only work five minutes from home. It could easily last me five more years I reckon...

What are your thoughts?

$700 ? really...... I didn't think they cost that much for 2nd hand engine with 200k+ on it

just searched on ebay, wow expensive for 2nd hand.


guess I have been spoiled rotten on 2nd engines then. 🙅 in Ks, quality and price.

vlad01,
Yeah, very expensive for what they have on the clock.

I'll probably be going with what AA003 is selling.
Sounds like a great deal.

ej25 with sohc heads then turbo it once your off your P's , i know of a ej22 kit thats coming up for sale but its from a bay window so flywheel is 228 all new rad from a t3 and exhaust all loom done and has been in car for a while , cranky kit , t3 expansion tank new vss think he's chasing 1500-2000

Klaus,
Any images? Any contact information?

Depending on AA003 and what happens,
This will probably be runner up.

Thanks for the information mate!

Klaus wrote:ej25 with sohc heads then turbo it once your off your P's

Turbo or non turbo, you still can't drive it on Ps in NSW.

I can't drive it until I'm 25 anyway.

Turbo is a no go until I'm 25 in SA.
Not fair at all.

But then again, it is very fair. I understand that kids on their P's and that are younger than 25 shouldn't drive high powered vehicles.
I just want to do something different and cool, and I think doing a Subaru conversion in a bug, not many people under the age of 19 can say that they have done a Subaru conversion on their VW.

Also, sent you an email AA003, well, the email in your post that is. Hope you got it and can hit me up as soon as possible. Would love to get this project on the road before I'm 18 even...

Pretty much all the engines you see forsale on ebay are from wreckers which have to make a living hense the stupid prices.

$500 is a good price for a good one, usually private sales you can pick them up for less than that

You can even pick up running Libertys and Imprezas for well under $1k

Don't let high KMs scare you, as long as the maintaince has been kept up to it they easy make 300K without any attention.
The subi joint here service several cars with 300K+ on the clocks, most don't even use any oil between changes.

The high mileage ones I've seen inside of at shop have all still had the cross hatching in the bores.


The early gen1EJ25 SOHC aka EJ251 are tight but fit a bug without too much hassle cept we never saw them here on the DOHC version

Stick with an EJ22 or early EJ20 you'll be fine.

Joel,
Yeah, I can get the EJ22, ECU and wiring loom all for $700.

I think that is definitely a major win in my eyes.
Hell, the bloke wants to sell me the car for $800 if he can. Only thing wrong, needs new front brakes and key is stuck in ignition barrel.

I just want the engine, ECU and wiring. I'm going to contact Al in Queensland about getting the wiring loom to what I actually need.
What about those hard water lines from SharpBuilt? Worth contacting them about it or should I not bother and deal with that after?

The kit from AA003 sounds really good though...
Seeing as though it is complete, contains a spare engine with only 132,000kms, the flywheel and adapter, wiring loom and ecu.
Only thing I need to do is radiator, hard water lines, fuel pump stuff as well and whatever else is needed.

Those hard lines on the sharpbuilt website are designed to be used on a beach buggy

11CAB wrote:Those hard lines on the sharpbuilt website are designed to be used on a beach buggy

Ah, thanks for that clarification!
I guess I'll need to get some custom made ones then. Basically want the same as Joel where they tuck into the pans sills and sit high.

Will see what I can do.

Most I have ever paid for an engine is 200 and that was for a 18 year old engine with 89k on it.

2 years and 62k later is going strong as ever, fantastic engine! This ain't vw or suby engine though, different market.

I sold an ea82 for 50 buks cos I felt thats all it was worth.

Damn that is bloody good!
Wish I had your luck man, I didn't even know it was possible to buy an engine that cheaply with a tiny amount of k's on it.

Will see what happens.
I'm excited though, will get everything starting soon, if I can score this kit from AA003 then I'll be smiling.
Then just comes installation!

😀

That's cos you can find Commodore Buick V6s sitting on the footpath each garbage day 😉

There's one just around the corner from me out of a VR mounted in a Greenfield ride on lawn mower 😂

Amazingly it stays cool with only a Mini Minor radiator.

Ahaha that's awesome!

What do you reckon Joel?
Kit from AA003 or the $700 EJ22 (220,000+), ECU and wiring loom?

I'm thinking kit...
Might call the number supplied tomorrow.

I say keep it aircooled!!!

Also, I'm not sure about the P plate laws that you have in SA. But in QLD P plate drivers can't drive a vehicle that has had a engine swap performed. A car that has a Blue Plate mod for the engine is a big no no for P platers.

Make sure that you check your states laws out properly before rushing into an engine conversion, you might not be allowed to drive it.


Smiley 🙂

Smiley,

Yeah, you're right about engine swap, P platers aren't supposed to do it. But the thing is, I've already done an engine swap, just to another VW engine.
So really, I've already broken the rules. Sure, another VW engine isn't going to matter much, but you're right about a Subaru engine being in the car...
That would definitely raise questions if I got pulled over.

I won't be allowed to drive it while displaying P plates, correct, but I am pretty sure those restrictions are lifted when I get my P2's, which will be just before my 18th I'm pretty sure.
That and I won't be displaying my P's, so the police won't have any reason to pull me over unless I'm doing stupid shit in Zelda (which I won't be and haven't been for some time now).

Not only that, but Zelda is actually registered under Mum's name and insured under hers as well. Meaning I get cheaper insurance, but that might have to change as well to full comprehensive (not just third party fire and theft) so that it can be insured for all modifications. I know that I will have to get an engineer to sign off on the conversion as well which is another issue I have to pass when it comes time for it to happen.

But, I don't think that should stop me from passing up the deal from AA003. I can always have the parts in storage and then when the time is right, start the conversion.
I just want to have it done by the end of the year. Hell, if I really pushed myself, I have a month till the Easter long weekend. If I can gather all the parts before then, I reckon with a bit of luck and endurance, I could have the conversion done during that weekend.

So in other words, I need to have all the parts, the wiring loom stripped down and everything ready to go before the 6th of April.

Swapping in a replacement engine is exactly that, just swapping in another engine. All you have to do is get the engine number changed on your rego and you're all good.

Whereas an engine conversion is fitting an engine from another manufacturer or an engine that wasn't offered for you model car. It requires engineering/approval/mod plating etc.
Even if the vehicle is insured and registered in your mothers name, doesn't mean that you can drive it if your license doesn't allow you too. It would only take one cop to notice that the engine 'sounds a little different' when they have you pulled over for an RBT and you could run into some issues if you're not legally allowed to drive the car.

I'm not saying don't go for it, I"m just saying that you should definitely look into the laws thoroughly and make sure that you can drive that car still. Because I sure as hell wouldn't want to be prohibited from driving my Baja, only because I rushed into an engine conversion without looking into it properly beforehand.


Also, I think that you're kidding yourself if you think that you can do an engine conversion in a weekend. Just ask Joel how long it took to make up the radiator box in the front or run the coolant lines. It's a lot bigger job than you can imagine. Not to mention the thousands of 'small' jobs that will gobble up the time, mounting the ECU, running the wiring, finding a spot for the overflow bottle etc etc etc.


Smiley 🙂


PS. Aircooled FTW!

First up, I know I'm kidding myself with time and doing it in a weekend, one can hope for something. But I honestly reckon I could get a majority of the work done, not all of it, but a majority.

Anyway, back to the main issue here. You're right, I definitely don't want to be stopped at an RBT, and then loose being able to drive Zelda for a few years. That just isn't cool in my eyes and I'd hate for something like that to happen. I did some research like you recommended and found this for P1 drivers (myself).

High-powered vehicles are:

- vehicles with engines of eight or more cylinders
- vehicles with turbocharged or supercharged engines (excluding diesel powered vehicles)
- vehicles that have been modified to increase engine performance
- nominated high performance vehicles.

So I did some more digging and found this as well.

High-powered vehicle restrictions apply to vehicles that have been modified to increase engine performance. The following information may help to determine the type of modifcations that may be included in this defiinition but may not be exhaustive and should not be taken as a precise interpretation of the law.

Vehicle attributes include:
- Induction system
- Fuel system
- Engine
- Exhaust system

Note: under no circumstances should any of the above be modified or replaced with parts or components unapproved by the vehicle manufacturer.

So it quite clearly states that I should not be doing such things until I'm actually on my full license or else I will have my license disqualified. I won't be able to apply for a full license until I'm 20, so it'll be until then that I can actually drive Zelda legally with a Subaru conversion in her. I guess I'll just be sitting this out and waiting two years until it is possible... I still reckon I'd be alright to do it though, I only drive her to and from work and that is quite literally a five minute drive. The only time that I reckon I'd ever get caught at an RBT is if I was driving to the misses place which is about a twenty minute drive away and on some main roads.

It just feels like a damn shame to say no to everything and just drop the EJ22 project due to some restrictions. Hell, I don't even know when I can apply for my P2's because of receiving a demerit point. All I know is that because of it, I won't be able to apply for my full license till I'm twenty. I'm eighteen in two months, so yeah, it's a two year wait until I can even start stripping Zelda down for the conversion... That kinda sucks.

PS. Aircooled may be better, but like the first post after mine, it's comparing 1930 technology to 1990's...

SebastienPeek wrote:Aircooled may be better, but like the first post after mine, it's comparing 1930 technology to 1990's...

1930's technology gets me to work every day. And that's over 700km a week, haven't run into a need for an engine conversion yet 😀

Just stick with the 1600 for now, get to know your car, maintain it, tune it, drive it for a while, upgrade any issues. Then you can worry about engine upgrades.


Smiley 🙂

Yessir Smiley!

So you reckon still grab the dual kadrons and then just drive her, enjoy her, and do all the maintenance myself?
Then later down the track, jump on the Subabug band wagon...

I think that sounds a bit more realistic...
Might get a Vintage Speed exhaust though... NOMNOMNOM!

SebastienPeek wrote:Yessir Smiley!

So you reckon still grab the dual kadrons and then just drive her, enjoy her, and do all the maintenance myself?
Then later down the track, jump on the Subabug band wagon...

I think that sounds a bit more realistic...
Might get a Vintage Speed exhaust though... NOMNOMNOM!

Absolutely man.

My Baja started out with a 1300sp and could barely turn the 31"s to 105km/h. But now I've replaced/rebuilt/had apart/broken and fixed just about every part on the car. You learn so much when something breaks or goes wrong and you have to get in and fix it yourself.
I'm at the point now where I'm researching and looking into major upgrades form my car, disc brakes/rack and pinion steering/5 speed box etc. There's no way I could even comprehend half of this if I hadn't started out basic and learned as I went.

So love that car! And learn that car! Until you know everything about her. And by that time you will probably be old enough to swap a Subie into her.


Smiley 🙂

And new exhausts are good. Make sure that you don't go too big for your engine.

Yeah man!

I've already learnt so much about her, it's great. I never thought in a million years when I got her that I'd have the balls to actually do an engine change in her. That was crazy. And to know that I'll get dual kadrons and all of that and do it all myself, that excites me!

I'm looking into disc brakes all around too, but a different bolt pattern and so forth. That'll be the next thing on my agenda.
I guess time will tell, but one day, Zelda will definitely be Subaru powered that is for sure.

Also, I'm keen on getting the Vintage Speed Exhaust, SuperFlow and whatever, 38mm headers.
First thing is first though, get the dual kadrons installed and tuned to perfection, then get the exhaust, and then the brakes and rotor changes.
Will be cool, bleeding brakes and all that crap.

Then some nifty little electronics that I'll do and that'll be cool as well.

EJ22 can wait for a while. I want to have my fun with a Type 1 first.

The first ever vw engine I built for my Superbug when I was 18 was a 1641cc with a pobjoy cam, balanced bottom end, extractors, lightened flywheel & a stock carby. It went very very well. Last engine I built was a 2275cc with 48 webbers before I went Subaru.

Unless u are the lovechild of Craig Lowndes, I don't think u will be quite ready yet to handle a big jump in power in a little beetle. Take your time. maybe stick an engle 110 cam in the 1600 with some kadrons for now , just so u can keep up with the traffic a little better whilst u are on your P's & just enjoy it.

Jak

It's not me that is selling the Subaru bits. I'm just the messenger.

If I was in your situation, I'd put an 1835 in it with standard carb. Nobody would know that you had modified it.

Jak,
I've got a 1600cc twin port in there at the moment running a dual carb setup. The plan is to swap them out with some 40 Kadrons and then a Vintage Speed exhaust should do it.
The only issue I have is that there are some studs coming out of the case that are bloody weird. Looks like they have been extended for something, not sure what though.
But regardless, I'm not actually supposed to be modifying my engine, but I do keep up with the traffic...

AA003,
Thanks for that, I do appreciate your help. I contacted Geoff but won't be able to follow through with it due to limits and legality.
I have a 1600tp, could I bore that out to 1835 or should I just wait until one pops up in the WTB section?

Thanks for everyones input, really appreciate it guys!

Jak Rizzo wrote:Unless u are the lovechild of Craig Lowndes, I don't think u will be quite ready yet to handle a big jump in power in a little beetle. Take your time. maybe stick an engle 110 cam in the 1600 with some kadrons for now , just so u can keep up with the traffic a little better whilst u are on your P's & just enjoy it.

That's quality advise right there.
Inexperience and power is a killer which is why they brought out P plater restrictions.
I totalled my first bug on my Ps finding out RR cars don't quite drift the same as FR cars do.

As much as I'm pro engine conversions, you're diving off the deep end tackling an engine conversion this early.
Like Smiley said the 100s of little jobs that you don't think of soon add up.

SebastienPeek wrote:I have a 1600tp, could I bore that out to 1835 or should I just wait until one pops up in the WTB section?

Rebuild yours or buy another stock engine to rebuild in your spare time. Do it properely and you will end up with a nce torquey brand new engine that looks like stock.

Then when you are ready just stick the Kadrons on.

Joel wrote:That's quality advise right there.
Inexperience and power is a killer which is why they brought out P plater restrictions.
I totalled my first bug on my Ps finding out RR cars don't quite drift the same as FR cars do.

As much as I'm pro engine conversions, you're diving off the deep end tackling an engine conversion this early.
Like Smiley said the 100s of little jobs that you don't think of soon add up.

Yeah, this is the sort of advice that I wanted when I asked this question and it is great to have so many people input and give me all this information. I think it has definitely helped me and I've made the right decision in staying away until I'm in my twenties and have more road experience under my belt...

I agree completely Joel!

PS, you're right about RR cars drifting and sliding differently than FR cars. Damn tail happy.

AA003 wrote:Rebuild yours or buy another stock engine to rebuild in your spare time. Do it properely and you will end up with a nce torquey brand new engine that looks like stock.

Then when you are ready just stick the Kadrons on.

Will look into how much it'll cost to rebuild mine and in turn how long it'll take.

I've already got Kadrons lined up, hopefully being posted next Monday/Tuesday.

😀

Joel wrote:That's cos you can find Commodore Buick V6s sitting on the footpath each garbage day 😉

There's one just around the corner from me out of a VR mounted in a Greenfield ride on lawn mower 😂

Amazingly it stays cool with only a Mini Minor radiator.

yeah very true, these engine are outlasting the every car they have been put it. only 25 million buick v6 engine made 😂

Cheap, powerful, torque is amazing (starts off at 500 rpm easy as) lasts forever, compact, simple, relatively light, can take a flogging daily and last to 300k+. very popular conversion engine but not so in vw land.

its because these engine don't really die that there is so many of them and this is why they are cheap and simply the best bang for buck engine in Australia.

the opposite of the once equal car "the falcon" because of these engine failing all the time due to head gasket and head corrosion problems there isn't much of them around and if you can find one at a reasonable price it will probably need the head welded and machined, then an expensive ford AU gaskets fitted to prevent the problem again.

therfore they are expensive for high k worn POS engines. typical is 600 -800 buks for one is good shape vs a low k buick v6 for 200-500 in excellent shape.

these v6 are cheaper than a excel engine 😂 and we know how good excel engines are 🤪😂

vlad01 wrote:these v6 are cheaper than a excel engine 😂 and we know how good excel engines are 🤪😂

Don't under estimate them.
The 4G15 was one of Mitsubishi's better engines, just look at how many Excels, Mirages, Lancers, Proton Jumbuck and Satrias are out there especially with 300k or more on original engines.

I was amazed at the abuse the S coupe took at both the previous owner and my brother and his girlfreind almost nuking it up a mountain range with 2 other passangers and camping gear yet it's ran perfect with 250k on the clock long after I sold it.

The excel cup cars cop a flogging too.
Shame the rest of the cars are poorly made pieces of shit.


Buick V6s are common in Kombis and run laps around a type4 but yeah, no good for bug or type3.
Mate of mine uses them in his Speedway sprint car.
They run pretty much on the rev limitor and generally run all season without a pull down.

Aha yeah, I have seen a very large amount of engines really cheap with 250,000kms+ but they are just going to keep going.

I've decided I'll chuck on the dual kadrons, scat35 cam, and new pistons. Will make a nice 1776cc.
Will split the case and redoing the bearings and all that.

Joel wrote:

vlad01 wrote:these v6 are cheaper than a excel engine 😂 and we know how good excel engines are 🤪😂

Don't under estimate them.
The 4G15 was one of Mitsubishi's better engines, just look at how many Excels, Mirages, Lancers, Proton Jumbuck and Satrias are out there especially with 300k or more on original engines.

I was amazed at the abuse the S coupe took at both the previous owner and my brother and his girlfreind almost nuking it up a mountain range with 2 other passangers and camping gear yet it's ran perfect with 250k on the clock long after I sold it.

The excel cup cars cop a flogging too.
Shame the rest of the cars are poorly made pieces of shit.


Buick V6s are common in Kombis and run laps around a type4 but yeah, no good for bug or type3.
Mate of mine uses them in his Speedway sprint car.
They run pretty much on the rev limitor and generally run all season without a pull down.

I don't know, I seen a lot of excels and the later accent fail prematurely at less than 150k.

but yeah the v6 kombi conversion is awesome!

your mate that uses one in a sprint car, that engine doesn't happen to be an engine built by SRE?

LOL the 4g15 in my mirage is going well in the 14 year old body. It gets treated with a Fair degree of neglect since the bug came along. oil cange every christmas and coolant every few years.

It ain't no 5.7 v8 but gets me around just fine.

Joel wrote:

vlad01 wrote:these v6 are cheaper than a excel engine 😂 and we know how good excel engines are 🤪😂

Don't under estimate them.
The 4G15 was one of Mitsubishi's better engines, just look at how many Excels, Mirages, Lancers, Proton Jumbuck and Satrias are out there especially with 300k or more on original engines.

I was amazed at the abuse the S coupe took at both the previous owner and my brother and his girlfreind almost nuking it up a mountain range with 2 other passangers and camping gear yet it's ran perfect with 250k on the clock long after I sold it.

The excel cup cars cop a flogging too.
Shame the rest of the cars are poorly made pieces of shit.


Buick V6s are common in Kombis and run laps around a type4 but yeah, no good for bug or type3.
Mate of mine uses them in his Speedway sprint car.
They run pretty much on the rev limitor and generally run all season without a pull down.

vlad01 wrote:your mate that uses one in a sprint car, that engine doesn't happen to be an engine built by SRE?

Nah, he owns an engineering shop and builds them himself.

cool.


I am going to get an ecotec from SRE in geelong for my other VP.

2600 bucks for his most basic engine which is mildly hotted up, I think its around 160kw at the flywheel? vs stock 147kw. plus all the machine work is to high tolerance like his speedway packages. then I could go for his next stage which it still mild and can make around or just under 200kw and that is 3400 buks.

hmmm decisions decisions 😵‍💫

SRE is Spencer race engines and their rep is very high for quality among the holden, chev and ford scene.

they do a lot of speed way stuff , engine stuff for V8 supercars etc... good shit 👍

Hell yeah, going to do a 1776cc.

My case, to a 1776. Going to call Mr. DeBiasi and see what it'll cost...

SebastienPeek wrote:Hell yeah, going to do a 1776cc.

My case, to a 1776. Going to call Mr. DeBiasi and see what it'll cost...

Good to see that the thread is back on track. Don't know how it got onto Holdens and Hyundais.


Smiley 🙂

Aha that's gold Smiley 😉

But yes. Looking into a good engine combo.
Looking into a SCAT 35 camshaft. Will replace the bearings and upgrade the lifters.
Dual 40 kadrons. The only thing I'm not sure what to get is pistons...

From what I've heard to get a 1776 you don't need to bore out anything or whatever, just upgrading the camshaft, lifters and pistons then it is possible to get a 1776?

Partnered with a VintageSpeed Exhaust, I think it'll definitely be a good combo to run.
Would love to know other peoples 1776 combinations...

No, you need to bore for 1776 to 90.5mm

Its 1641 that doesn't require boring.

That's what I thought...

Will see what I can do and what my budget will allow me to do.
What's done to get it to a 1641cc?

just a 1641 piston/barrel kit. They simply sacrifice cylinder wall thickness for increased bore. they slip straight in.

Is it worth me just going to a 1776?

I might contact Peter DeBiasi about it tomorrow.

bajachris88 wrote:just a 1641 piston/barrel kit. They simply sacrifice cylinder wall thickness for increased bore. they slip straight in.

Save them for door stops.

Seb, if you're getting the case and heads bored and a new P&C kit may as well just go 94mm cost will work out pretty well the same in the end and as far as the motor registery is concerned it's still a "1600"

Last time I checked there wasn't noticable price difference between 90.5s and 94s

Joel,
What would that then make the engine displacement?

I'm keen to get as much bang for my buck.
Will see what I can find online and so forth.

SebastienPeek wrote:Joel,
What would that then make the engine displacement?

It would make it 1915.....69stroke x 94bore

Thought so Craig.
I think it'll be a cheap-ish exercise to do such a thing to the current case. Will contact DeBiasi about it and see what he says.